Princeton or Stanford for premed?

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tttaaa

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Hi,

I was wondering how well set up are the studies at those schools for premeds (Biochem major btw.). I know that both are excellent schools. However, Princeton seems to have larger grade deflation than Stanford :(, which probably would hurt. On the other hand, Stanford seems to have a worse advising system, which probably is really important once application time comes. Finally, Stanford has better weather.:love:

I'm specifically interested in the following comparisons between the schools: Advising, medical volunteering, clinical shadowing, research opportunities, grade-inflation. In not any particular order, how does each school compare on those points?

Thanks so much.

-tttaaa
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tttaaa said:
Hi,

I was wondering how well set up are the studies at those schools for premeds (Biochem major btw.). I know that both are excellent schools. However, Princeton seems to have larger grade deflation than Stanford :(, which probably would hurt. On the other hand, Stanford seems to have a worse advising system, which probably is really important once application time comes. Finally, Stanford has better weather.:love:

I'm specifically interested in the following comparisons between the schools: Advising, medical volunteering, clinical shadowing, research opportunities, grade-inflation. In not any particular order, how does each school compare on those points?

Thanks so much.

-tttaaa
Click to expand...

I didn't read a word of what you wrote.

Stanford by far.

i'm not going to comment on grade inflation, but i've head some stanford kids tell me the school's median GPA is around 3.7, which is ridic, and thatStanford grad schools also favor stanford undergrad kids.

Its also in a better area.

I'm from NJ but **** Princeton kids
 
This probably belongs in the high school forum.

Do not - repeat, DO NOT - go to a school based on these things. You should go to an undergraduate where you will feel the most comfortable, and have a more enjoyable time (you're going to be spending 4 years there, you do not want to be unhappy!). This is a pretty subjective answer. Don't pretend to know what major you are (you're not even in college yet!!!!!) as I'll bet money you'll change your mind (I changed tons, and wasn't premed going into school).

Whatever you do, don't go to school and immediately hit the grind in school work. Be sure to take some "lighter," more interesting classes so you don't hit a wall too early. Good luck.
 
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I bet there is a higher correlation between the number of hot girls and happiness of student body, than there is between a strong pre-med program and happiness.

Take away point: Don't choose your school based on this quality alone.
 
Well, I wasn't set on biochem. It's just an example. I'm probably (99%) going to major in a science though. I can't bear research papers/essays/circumlocution, and for my own happiness, I will probably not major in the humanities.

And school wise, I would be happy at either places just fine. Food is good. Dorms are good. Students are intellectually active =>what can you ask for more? (OK, hot girls, but let's not stray away from the core topic :laugh:)

The only turnoff for me would be over-competitive premeds, the grade-grubbing cheater/tears of pages from books before finals kind of premed. I hope not too many of those are at either institutions.

So my chief concerns are the criterias I pointed out above.

PS: I also posted in the high school section, but realize I would probably get more relevant advice/information from undergrads who actually study there... know about what it's like to be an undergrad premed.
 
Whew... "intellectually active" students definitely didn't factor into my choice for undergraduate. I'd say the more common motto here is "work hard, play hard." Heck, for many of my friends it's just "play hard." :laugh:
 
agree with all above and also the fact that this probly does not belong.

stanford has its own med school. princeton doesn't. stanford athletics >>>.

princeton campus is nice. if you ever visit it, you will remember that they have one sick ice cream parlor. i love the state of new jersey, but i like the people i've met from stanford over the people from princeton. no offense but they are kinda weird. just dont go to 1. duke, 2. princeton 3. villanova.

in all seriousness, i have never heard of any cheating stories or tear a page out of the notes story

has anyone?
 
Admiral, May I ask you which school you go to? (is it either one of the ones I am asking about?)

Just curious, because you sound knowledgeable about my situation :)

Also, I heard stanford's admission rate is lower. 75% (stanford) vs Princeton (93%)... ALthough they are not completely reliable, I'm sure it testifies to some kind of problem... Is there a reason for this?

1. duke, 2. princeton 3. villanova.

IS there a reason for this list witness?
 
I'm sure some people know around these parts, but I don't want to start a flame war here :). I don't go to either school (sorry).

I had to make a similar decision between 2 top schools for undergrad, it was pretty hard for me because they were so similar. Both schools had stellar national reputations, like yours and right about the same level in their respective reputations. In the end, I took the option of going to the school where I though the transition to college would be the easiest (I knew I would have had tons of fun at either school) - it was a really close call and I made it right down to the wire. Maybe that's why I got screwed on dorm assignments... blah.
 
I went to Stanford and loved it. I think we are known for having a lack of gunner premeds - of course, we are high-achieving, but we do not sabotage each others' work or refuse to study together. I knew many premeds and thought that, by and large, they were really cool people that I liked to study with and hang out with.

Student life is great - dorms are really tight, classes are interesting, lots of cool speaker events and extracurriculars, great athletics... I could really go on for a long time.

Actually, I had a pretty decent advising experience at Stanford. I think the advisors gave me good advice on my activities and what schools I'd be competitive at. The advisors were also great about directing me to shadowing opportunities and things like that.

Grading was definitely pretty nice - most classes curved to a B or something like that. I think I had one that was curved to a B+. I did have a couple classes that weren't curved, but they were very reasonable - many people were able to get As and A-s. Given the chance to go to a school with nice grading, I say you should go for it! I do hear that medical schools somehow account for the difficulty of your undergrad's grading system... but why take the chance?

So, I can't speak to how Princeton's experience is, but I would say that Stanford is a wonderful place to be a premed. I was really happy with my academic and extracurricular opportunities (favorite: scrubbing in for surgery and literally getting my hands in a few patients) as well as the location of the school, and I would wholeheartedly recommend Stanford.
 
Hey Platinum... it was very helpful. At least, one of the major turnoffs, "grade-grubbers" has been dispelled partially.

And BTW, Platinum, there is probably NO official adjustments for the school's difficulty. MIT for example, has a ridiculous GPA avg for those getting into med school, despite the fact that it is probably one of the most difficult schools in the country (maybe only Harvey Mudd or Caltech rivals it).
 
I have spent time at both schools so I can actually help answer your question. Both are great schools with smart, hardworking students. Both schools will have a mixture of awesome and not so awesome professors.

Do you like NYC or San Francisco better?
Do you like California weather or NJ weather better?
Are you more about old tradition ("ivy league...") or more of an feeling of innovation ("silicon valley...")?

The thing I noted about the schools that differed was Stanford was all about research and its graduate schools. Princeton seemed much more focused on its undergrads, and it did have some exciting research going on and plenty of Nobel Laureates (like Stanford).

If it were me, I'd pick Stanford for the weather + medical school opportunities. Still, you can't go wrong at either school and being close to NYC and the historic feel of Princeton is pretty awesome.

Is one going to be much cheaper than the other? It would be nice to have minimal undergrad debt if you want to go into medicine...
 
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Well, Stanford will cost 2k more/yr than princeton... It's not a huge sum, and I can work extra to pay for that. The factors like city (NYC/SF), sports, historical feeling, architecture don't really matter to me. Either way works fine for me actually.

Basically, it kind of boils down to

Stanford (many med activities, more inflation, better weather) vs. Princeton (less inflation, less med acitivities, more undergrad focus, crappy weather).

Arghh... I'm getting a headache :D
 
Although I am not qualified to give you an in-depth analysis in each of those categories, I just wanted to say congrats and go to Stanford. :D I hear it is far more laid back and has amazing research opportunities. Also, consider where you want to end up for medical school or residency. If it's West Coast, then again, pick Stanford.

However, on the other side of the spectrum, Stanford has a medical acceptance rate of 76%, compared with 95+ % at Princeton, so maybe that's a better indicator. :) Apparently the grade deflation does not hamper students too much!

I would think both are fairly equal in terms of volunteering, research, and shadowing opportunities. If money is an issue, have you considered the cost differences and financial aid benefits?
 
There isn't THAT much grade inflation at Stanford...it's just a myth perpetuated by those who don't go there.

OP: My sister had the same decision to make (Stanford vs. Princeton), and she chose Stanford because it's closer to home. Don't let reputation guide you here; go with where you'd want to live for the next four years. Go with your gut feeling.
 
Both good schools. Judge the area around each campus and decide from there.
 
OP, please refrain from posting the same thread in two different forums. I am merging your threads into the hSDN forum. College students frequently visit the hSDN forum and can respond to you question there.
 
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Thanks guys... I don't really know what to do because I was never expecting to get into either. And so little time to make my decision.:eek:
 
""lighter," more interesting classes so you don't hit a wall too early. Good luck. "

Admiral, what if those "more interesting" classes are the heavier one... dunno, like statistical mechanics, analysis, cell biology, biochemistry, pchem, quantum mechanics?
 
Both are insanely hard schools and def. have grade inflation.

I live around Princeton and I can tell you that I personally think it is a nicer campus than Stanford. However, like many other have said, you will probably have a better experience at Stanford.

If I had to pick, I would choose Stanford hands down. I could never see myself getting into those schools, and I hope you know you have a good shot/are accepted.

But yeah, Stanford all the way on this one. Princeton doesn't even have a med school or a law school.

Go to Stanford.
 
tttaaa said:
""lighter," more interesting classes so you don't hit a wall too early. Good luck. "

Admiral, what if those "more interesting" classes are the heavier one... dunno, like statistical mechanics, analysis, cell biology, biochemistry, pchem, quantum mechanics?
Click to expand...

Whew you count pchem and quantum mechanics in your "more interesting" classes? :eek::eek:

What I meant was - you seem to be a very science oriented person. Pretty common around SDN and quite a lot is involved in pre-med. But no matter where you go, try to take at least one non-science class a semester. For me (and most other people I know), it's like a "breath of fresh air" from the rigid, seemingly emotionless science classes :cool:.

Examples of classes that I took that fall into this category include: History of Jazz, Art History, Coming of the Civil War, Intro to Sociology, and many others. Don't be deceived, some of these classes were pretty hard (I pulled an all-nighter for that Sociology final!), but were pretty rewarding with learning about something that I literally knew nothing about before.

My point is, take a wide range of classes. You'll meet very different people (imagine the difference between a typical History of Jazz student and an Orgo student!) and it'll enrich your overall college experience. I'm sure both of your schools have options just like these. Whatever you decide, good luck!
 
jefgreen said:
But yeah, Stanford all the way on this one. Princeton doesn't even have a med school or a law school.
Click to expand...

So? Princeton's graduates are not exactly limited by the fact that they don't have a med school. I don't really know which school the OP should pick, but the fact that Princeton is undergraduate focused should (in my mind) be considered a positive, not a negative.
 
southernIM said:
So? Princeton's graduates are not exactly limited by the fact that they don't have a med school. I don't really know which school the OP should pick, but the fact that Princeton is undergraduate focused should (in my mind) be considered a positive, not a negative.
Click to expand...


It definitely is a positive. My alma mater (Rice) was started by Trustees from Princeton. Consequently, we are pretty much modeled after our sister school. The attention you receive from professors at schools focusing on undergrad education is unprecedented. And it is quite nice when you also have the research opportunities and name to back up your experience.

Best of luck
 
Since I've matched into my residency program, I've got some senioritis (med school senioritis) and am lurking in random forums :)

Bu this is an interesting issue i've faced since I've gone through the application process for each step 3 times now (AND NO MORE THANK GOD!!!!).

so to give the perspective of someone who has a ton of hindsight on this issue to the OP and anyone else:
1. You, not your school, determines whether you're a good enough applicant to the program. Sure the school helps a bit, but the admission rates for other ppl to medical school from your university does not affect YOUR personal admission rate.

2. Pick a school based on where you feel you fit in and feel that you would be the happiest. While I'm not saying go to your community college instead of the top 10 school 3000 miles away, I am saying that where you do your best learning and have the best college experience is going to be the place that will make you the best applicant.

3. Don't do a biochem major because you think it looks good on ur application. Do it because you love biochemistry and because you'd want to become a biochemist if you didn't become a doctor. Otherwise, u're putting urself into a major that you don't enjoy, that's not gonna help you get into medical school, that is not going to be helpful in medical school (unless you become a researcher), and is not gonna set you apart from everyone else.

4. Admiral had great advice.
 
tttaaa said:
""lighter," more interesting classes so you don't hit a wall too early. Good luck. "

Admiral, what if those "more interesting" classes are the heavier one... dunno, like statistical mechanics, analysis, cell biology, biochemistry, pchem, quantum mechanics?
Click to expand...

Quantum mechanics was a very interesting class :thumbup:. If you're interested in physics, you should look into taking some particle physics courses as well.

As for Princeton vs Stanford, I really don't think it matters. I would pick solely on location (which area you like more, family, etc...), especially since you said that cost was pretty much the same.
 
Princeton is much more classic. Plus, Stanford doesn't have eating clubs.
 
Thanks guys!

I heard a lot of good stuff from Stanford, but I wondered if anyone goes to/knows about princeton premeds, and how they survive/thrive there??... I have no idea what kind of medically related ec's like shadowing/volunteering/hospital work is possible at Princeton.
 
tttaaa said:
Thanks guys!

I heard a lot of good stuff from Stanford, but I wondered if anyone goes to/knows about princeton premeds, and how they survive/thrive there??... I have no idea what kind of medically related ec's like shadowing/volunteering/hospital work is possible at Princeton.
Click to expand...

If you want it, you can find it. Although with Princeton, you dont' have Princeton medical school around the corner to bail you out.
 
As much as I hate Stanford (CAL grad)... I would choose them over Princeton. Can't go wrong with either school, both have countless resources and opportunities. So choose based on location, friends, and where you would be happy. Stanford weather >>>>>>> Princeton weather. Also you may not care about Division 1 sports right now, but that may change.
 
Rendar5 said:
If you want it, you can find it. Although with Princeton, you dont' have Princeton medical school around the corner to bail you out.
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To reiterate - a university having or not having a med school should not be a major factor in this decision (esp when deciding between two top schools like this).

If you screw up and need a "bail out" at Stanford, I guarantee you won't be getting that bailout from Stanford's med school, because there will be ~50-100 other Stanford grads applying there that year.

Princeton has excellent research facilities and opportunities for undergrads, so I wouldn't say they are limited in that way by not having a med school. Their graduates typically do very well in the med school application process, so I wouldn't say they are limited in that way either.

There are lots of reasons to pick either school in this situation, and I have no dog in this fight. But I would strongly advise the OP not to make the decision based on presence/absence of a med school - it really doesn't have a strong impact on the undergraduate education.
 
eh, he asked about shadowing/volunteer/hospital work opportunities. just saying there's no large academic hospital nearby, so he can get those opportunities if he wants, but he just might actually have to put a modicum of effort into it when ther'es no obvious nearby place. Honestly, picking a school based on how much it helps you as a premed just seems silly to me, esp. when both ahve similar reputations, in retrospect.

southernIM said:
To reiterate - a university having or not having a med school should not be a major factor in this decision (esp when deciding between two top schools like this).

If you screw up and need a "bail out" at Stanford, I guarantee you won't be getting that bailout from Stanford's med school, because there will be ~50-100 other Stanford grads applying there that year.

Princeton has excellent research facilities and opportunities for undergrads, so I wouldn't say they are limited in that way by not having a med school. Their graduates typically do very well in the med school application process, so I wouldn't say they are limited in that way either.

There are lots of reasons to pick either school in this situation, and I have no dog in this fight. But I would strongly advise the OP not to make the decision based on presence/absence of a med school - it really doesn't have a strong impact on the undergraduate education.
Click to expand...
 
Rendar5 said:
eh, he asked about shadowing/volunteer/hospital work opportunities. just saying there's no large academic hospital nearby, so he can get those opportunities if he wants, but he just might actually have to put a modicum of effort into it when ther'es no obvious nearby place. Honestly, picking a school based on how much it helps you as a premed just seems silly to me, esp. when both ahve similar reputations, in retrospect.
Click to expand...

I agree with that - I have a large academic hospital near me, but it has had ZERO impact on me as a student. Premeds aren't med students and they aren't residents - they do not need hands on training in medical techniques. Maybe I didn't take advantage of it, but I know of no one who required the use of such a facility for their experiences - they could have been done at any hospital, regardless of teaching status. And trust me, no one at Standford "falls back" on their medical school if other things don't pan out - it is maddeningly competitive to get in, no one has it as a "Plan B." This holds for other schools as well. Yes, it's nice to have the research opportunities, but the vast majority of premed research is done in the basic sciences (chemistry, biology) and not in the clinical setting. Having an academic hospital nearby won't impact those availabilities.

I'll reiterate that you should pick on subjective factors - where you think you can succeed as a student, where you feel the most comfortable. Assume for as second, OP, that you live on the east coast. If being on the east coast closer to home, makes you more comfortable and gives you an opportunity for a weekend trip home to unwind then go for Princeton. If you'd rather get away and see the other coast, far away from the parents, then Stanford shines through. I'm not saying pick on only these factors, but going through scenarios like these might help your decision. Similar scenarios for me made my decision slightly easier (but it was still very, very hard).

Good luck and let me know if you have any other questions :)

Please also keep in mind that you have no way of knowing that you'll continue as a premed - I entered undergrad dead-set on business, but that changed dramatically after I took some classes, considered my options carefully, and took a look at what I enjoy doing. There are immense opportunities beyond premed at both of these schools - if I were you, I'd take advantage of some of them just to see if medicine is really what you want to do :). Even if you don't like it - you'll be introduced to new people you might not have otherwise, and that's the first thing in networking and making friends :cool:.
 
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If you screw up and need a "bail out" at Stanford, I guarantee you won't be getting that bailout from Stanford's med school, because there will be ~50-100 other Stanford grads applying there that year.
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Agreed. In fact, there were around 250 stanford grads applying to stanford med school in 2008. 10 were in the matriculating class.
 
fizzle said:
There isn't THAT much grade inflation at Stanford...it's just a myth perpetuated by those who don't go there.
Click to expand...

silverlining1 said:
Grading was definitely pretty nice - most classes curved to a B or something like that. I think I had one that was curved to a B+.
Click to expand...

I would call that significant grade inflation.
 
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