prestigious undergrad?

[sonpat]

Hello, I am applying to colleges right now and currently am applying to only BS/MD programs (which includes Brown and Washington St. Louis). I will also be applying to Duke and UNC Chapel Hill. However, I will most likely go to my state school (Rutgers University) because getting a higher GPA would be easier there and lower tuition. Should I apply for more prestigious schools (like JHU and UCLA and Berkley) or is Rutgers good enough?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[ZedsDed]

Hello, I am applying to colleges right now and currently am applying to only BS/MD programs (which includes Brown and Washington St. Louis). I will also be applying to Duke and UNC Chapel Hill. However, I will most likely go to my state school (Rutgers University) because getting a higher GPA would be easier there and lower tuition. Should I apply for more prestigious schools (like JHU and UCLA and Berkley) or is Rutgers good enough?

Ok

1) Largely, when it comes to regular BS vs. BS/MD programs you can aim for prestige or you can aim for security, not both. BS/MD programs, with the exceptions of WUSTL and Brown, tend to be at lower tier schools. Personally, I would choose an Ivy League school with friendly grading over the afore mentioned programs any day. Ask yourself if there is any real reason that you need to shave two years off of your college experience.

2) Are you aware of the average SAT at JHU? How about the grade distribution at UCLA and Cal? If security and certainty are really what you desire, then Cal, UCLA, and especially JHU are going to show you firsthand that life is bleak and full of pain.

 

[el_duderino]

If I could do the whole thing all over again, it would be BS/MD all day long anywhere I could get it. The process of applying to medical school is so exhausting and emotionally draining and full of uncertainty, any way you can get around it is worth it.

 

[ZedsDed]

If I could do the whole thing all over again, it would be BS/MD all day long anywhere I could get it. The process of applying to medical school is so exhausting and emotionally draining and full of uncertainty, any way you can get around it is worth it.

I can't imagine that it would be any more exhausting than an accelerated undergrad course load.

 

[el_duderino]

I can't imagine that it would be any more exhausting than an accelerated undergrad course load.

You'd be surprised. Besides, what BS/MD programs are accelerated? The few I know of are pretty standard undergrad course loads.

 

[ZedsDed]

You'd be surprised. Besides, what BS/MD programs are accelerated? The few I know of are pretty standard undergrad course loads.

Cramming a bachelors degree+prereqs+MCAT in 3 years sounds fairly stressful to me.

 

[el_duderino]

I'm not familiar with many BS/MD programs. Is that normal? Of the three associated with my school, two are standard 4-year undergrad programs, and the third is 3 years undergrad, but it's not accelerated and you get your BS after completing the first year of med school. And you don't have to take the MCAT for any of them.

 

[ZedsDed]

I'm not familiar with many BS/MD programs. Is that normal? Of the three associated with my school, two are standard 4-year undergrad programs, and the third is 3 years undergrad, but it's not accelerated and you get your BS after completing the first year of med school. And you don't have to take the MCAT for any of them.

I'm certainly no expert either (@md-2020 this dude is), but AFAIK the standard is 3 years with a guaranteed acceptance contingent upon GPA and MCAT.

 

[sonpat]

most of my bs/md programs are 8 years , so I think that's why I wouldn't mind going to one. I have some through Drexel, through University of Alabama Birmingham, NJMS , Temple Med, Jefferson Med, GWU , VCU and Boston University

 

[md-2020]

I'm not familiar with many BS/MD programs. Is that normal? Of the three associated with my school, two are standard 4-year undergrad programs, and the third is 3 years undergrad, but it's not accelerated and you get your BS after completing the first year of med school. And you don't have to take the MCAT for any of them.

AFAIK the standard is 3 years with a guaranteed acceptance contingent upon GPA and MCAT.

This depends purely by program. Most programs are 7-8 years total, (3-4 years UG) but many condensed programs (ie Northwestern HPME) "strongly suggest" you take 1-2 gap years to do pre-approved activities. I've known people do it in 7 years, straight thru, but it took a fair amount of lobbying. A fair proportion of these schools do actually want an MCAT, eventually. A good summarization of BS/MD programs and all of their requirements is here: http://www.directbsmd.com/program-list.html. It's just a tad out of date, but very comprehensive.

I have never heard of anyone go BS/MD in 6 years, so I can't speak to the validity of the site's "six year programs" claim.

I personally am not a fan of BS/MD's btw, in case you've missed my frequent rants against them.

 

[el_duderino]

Are any of the programs really accelerated in any significant way? I imagine there's less room for electives and minors, but that the course load is not much higher than a typical undergrad schedule in a tough major.

 

[md-2020]

Are any of the programs really accelerated in any significant way? I imagine there's less room for electives and minors, but that the course load is not much higher than a typical undergrad schedule in a tough major.

Again pretty much 100% dependent on which program you go to. I've heard Brown's 8 year schedule is very chill (surprise....) whereas Northwestern holds you to 3.6/3.2 (or you get kicked out) with more pre-reqs than normal premeds, squeezed into 3 years.

BME is probably just as difficult but nowadays the smart play is to major in basket weaving and fit in those pre med classes.

 

[ZedsDed]

I personally am not a fan of BS/MD's btw, in case you've missed my frequent rants against them.

Yeah, I really don't see the appeal.

@sonpat What is your reason for only applying BS/MD anyway?

 

[sonpat]

mostly I want to avoid the stress of MCATS and the whole interview process , I'm not sure how hard it is to get a 31 (506?) on the MCAT , but for the programs that do require an MCAT , that's what I'd need to get to move on to med school

 

[ZedsDed]

mostly I want to avoid the stress of MCATS and the whole interview process , I'm not sure how hard it is to get a 31 (506?) on the MCAT , but for the programs that do require an MCAT , that's what I'd need to get to move on to med school

So you're scared of the MCAT? Why? Presumably you have a decent SAT score or you wouldn't even be considering this route.

 

[efle]

Firstly you should post a summary of your app so we can get an idea of your competitiveness for the really stellar BS/MD programs (Wustl, Northwestern, Rice/Baylor, and Brown) and for Top 20 undergrads in general.

As said above, places like UCLA, Cal, JHU are not where you should head if you want a happy and somewhat secure premed path. Duke and especially Brown >> those three

 

[md-2020]

Go to your state school and kill it. If you are remotely intelligent and work hard then this will happen and you won't have to worry about relying on your undergrad to boost your application.

From what I've heard from friends at various state flagships, grade deflation and competition are absurdly intense. National grade trends support this too.

 

[ZedsDed]

From what I've heard from friends at various state flagships, grade deflation and competition are absurdly intense. National grade trends support this too.

Depends on the state school imo.

 

[md-2020]

Depends on the state school imo.

As a group I believe public schools have GPAs ~0.3 lower than privates. That's significant.

 

[ZedsDed]

As a group I believe public schools have GPAs ~0.3 lower than privates. That's significant.

That's not what I meant. As a rule, yes, most state schools are insanely deflated in comparison to top-tier private schools. Some schools even have C averages in prereq classes. Where your mileage may vary is that certain schools have a completely different student population.

Cal state Fullerton has an average SAT of ~1050. If my biggest priority were grades and nothing else, I'd go there in a heartbeat over Harvard despite the deflation.

 

[efle]

As a group I believe public schools have GPAs ~0.3 lower than privates. That's significant.

The effect from the competitive student body overwhelms that though and overall still punishes the top private school students

 

[WedgeDawg]

I honestly think Yale is the best place to go for premed. Name + inflation + strong home school + inbreeding + great placement + strong research opportunities. Just have to deal with New Haven.

For a more thorough response, see the multiple links in my signature regarding state vs. top private (links 2 and 3).

 

[md-2020]

I honestly think Yale is the best place to go for premed. Name + inflation + strong home school + inbreeding + great placement + strong research opportunities. Just have to deal with New Haven.

By that exact formula Stanford and Harvard would be better choices. Palo Alto>>>>>>>Cambridge>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>New Haven


The OP's school choices, however, suggest that these names are probably out of reach.

 

[WedgeDawg]

By that exact formula Stanford and Harvard would be better choices. Palo Alto>>>>>>>Cambridge>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>New Haven

I had better reasons for this when I was thinking about it in the shower a few days ago but I forgot them

Still recommend looking at my sig OP

 

[sonpat]

I posted my stats and ec's a while ago, I was told that I have good scores but too cookie cutter for medicine for HYPSM

 

[ZedsDed]

I posted my stats and ec's a while ago, I was told that I have good scores but too cookie cutter for medicine for HYPSM

Yeah it looks like we've already been over this.

 

[WedgeDawg]

I posted my stats and ec's a while ago, I was told that I have good scores but too cookie cutter for medicine for HYPSM

Why not just apply and see what happens

 

[efle]

I'd apply. Don't build up super high expectations, but certainly wouldn't be a surprise if you got in!

 

[efle]

The real winners are the students who go to decent LACs (especially if its on scholarship!)

 

[md-2020]

The real winners are the students who go to decent LACs (especially if its on scholarship!)

LACs are not for everyone. Me, for example.


To repeat the ultimate cliche, you have to find where you fit in and feel comfortable.

 

[ZedsDed]

LACs are not for everyone. Me, for example.

How come bruh

 

[efle]

They tend to have ****ty sports

 

[md-2020]

How come bruh

They tend to have ****ty sports

Pretty much what efle said, with the addendum that I also prefer a large, diverse student body. I went to a HS w/ ~100 students per class, and knowing everyone got old pretty quick.

 

[el_duderino]

Pretty much what efle said, with the addendum that I also prefer a large, diverse student body. I went to a HS w/ ~100 students per class, and knowing everyone got old pretty quick.

You're gonna have a good time in med school.

 

[md-2020]

You're gonna have a good time in med school.

Well I mean it's not like an all-encompassing hatred of small classes or anything, just that given a LAC and a research uni I'd choose the uni.

 

[IlDestriero]

If I could do the whole thing all over again, it would be BS/MD all day long anywhere I could get it. The process of applying to medical school is so exhausting and emotionally draining and full of uncertainty, any way you can get around it is worth it.

I would never give up my undergrad experience. I learned a lot about a lot of things and raised some serious hell. Good times had by all. Rushing into a high pressure career is unnecessary.

 

[randomguy123456]

Hello, I am applying to colleges right now and currently am applying to only BS/MD programs (which includes Brown and Washington St. Louis). I will also be applying to Duke and UNC Chapel Hill. However, I will most likely go to my state school (Rutgers University) because getting a higher GPA would be easier there and lower tuition. Should I apply for more prestigious schools (like JHU and UCLA and Berkley) or is Rutgers good enough?

Doing well in a prestigious school rather than Rutgers is definitely a plus when applying to medical school. Also it doesn't hurt to attend a university, such as JHU or Berkeley, where there are vast more research opportunities and better quality education than Rutgers.