President-elect of ACS recommends semen as a valentine's day gift in editorial

[wine is good]

i read through what the guy said. The last sentence was questionable. And, not very wise to go that route, from a professional standpoint.

However, for people to get all worked up about it? Give me a break. Offended? Come on. Of what? How many people in position of power have let a stupid comment slip by? How about the president? Senators, congressmen?

The guy resigned his position???? Come on, we're being really hypocrites here. And, these women who write to complain to the publication...Get a life, why don't you. The guy basically said that you should sleep with your husbands. Maybe you should go and do just that, and you'll be less depressed...for real.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[hotchocolate]

You have to do more than be professional and pc as a leader, you have to know how to deal with human beings. Hopefully you will acquire some of that maturity and skill as you progress in your training or else there will be a lot of unhappy people under you and your type of attitude.

I really agree with JackADeli on this. I am really disappointed in Greenfield for agreeing to resign so fast. I would have gotten a better feel for who exactly I offended and then make a decision to either fight or apologize, not give up.

Oh well....

Never did I say that being PC and professional is sufficient for being a leader, but I do think it's necessary. I'm not sure why you have chosen to attack my "attitude" (which, btw, is perfectly fine) and leadership potential given I haven't ever expressed (and do not have) a desire to lead an organization such as the American College of my specialty. But um, thanks for your unsolicited advice anyways

 

[hotchocolate]

Here's a novel thought: how about surgeons stick to their specialty (surgery) and stop trying to practice psychiatry, in which they have no qualifications or training?

That is all.

 

[Guile]

Welp, he's officially out as ACS president-elect. Although I'm sure it'll be framed as "voluntary resignation" or something. There's only one thing in 21st century America that can never be forgiven..

Sincerely,

Carlos A. Pellegrini, MD, FACS, Chair, Board of Regents
L. D. Britt, MD, FACS, President
David B. Hoyt, MD, FACS, Executive Director
American College of Surgeons

Not surprised with Pellegrini as the chair of the board of regents. He is chair at UW and struck me as very liberal and "progressive."

 

[Guile]

...

... just...

i don't even know where to begin with this. but i'd be in the wrong forum anyway.

It's better that way. No one likes being preached at. Thanks.

That is all.

Promise you're finished?

 

[wine is good]

Here's a novel thought: how about surgeons stick to their specialty (surgery) and stop trying to practice psychiatry, in which they have no qualifications or training?

That is all.

you are just a med student. And have no qualifications in understanding what surgeons actually know and do. So...you can take your novel thought and...

 

[JackADeli]

...being PC ...I do think it's necessary...

Grand. Giving you the benefit of the doubt and attributing your statements in this regard to mis-information, I strongly recommend you actually look into what "PC" is and where it originates. Any self-respecting, logical, critical thinker, with even a rudimentary understanding of what "PC" is and where the ~religion of "PC" comes frome, would NOT be extolling the virtues and necessity of "PC".

Professionalism, decency, etc... are not interchangeable with a ~moral code based on the winds of politics. Medicine as a profession is not acting in a professional manner by failing to discuss things and/or data because "someone" feels the masses (often regarded as ignorant sheep via the dictates of "PC") can not handle the information or might find it "offensive" to even discuss. PC is about marginalizing topics into a modern ?educated classification of "taboo".

Here's a novel thought: how about surgeons stick to their specialty (surgery) and stop trying to practice psychiatry, in which they have no qualifications or training?

That is all.

Really, seriously? You really want to take a position that you have some sort of clue as to what a surgeon may or may not know via experience and/or formal education in relation to psychology..... I dare say that speaks volumes as to how much you don't know and/or lack in experience or medical training.

It is very telling that a proclaimed med-student is:
1. extolling the church of PC as important and/or a necessary part of leadership
2. Presuming to be an expert on what a surgeon is/is not trained in and/or has any competence, beyond the "shut-up and just cut" mentality.

PS: any specialty in medicine that has significant patient interactions, especially those that have significant interactions with patients AND families during very stressful period requires both education and experience in volumes of psychology. There are also plenty of published articles throughout surgical journals (and other specialties) specific to psychology, +/- mental illness. Go tell a FM, pediatrician, IM, Ob/Gyn, EM/ER, Geriatrics, Neurosurg, etc... they should not involve in some psychology.... Tell them that they have no training.... tell the USMLE and societal boards these fields have no training. And, if you aren't going into psych, why don't you ignore those sections and make your USMLE studies and subsequent board studies more efficient.

...That is all.

...Promise you're finished?

I fear we shall not be so lucky.

 

[dilated]

Oh, I am absolutely serious

The reason I posted the "not sure if srs" image was because I really couldn't believe that somebody would refer to "so-called freedom of speech" as something that's rightfully being cracked down on. A lot of people died for so-called freedom of speech in this country, and a lot of other people around the world right now are giving up their lives to make it a reality in their country (see: last year's Nobel peace prize winner). And yes, tacky or unpopular free speech is the only kind that anyone ever needs to defend anyway.

Good lord. Maybe the ACS can establish mandatory re-education camps for wayward surgeons.

 

[SLUser11]

I am really disappointed in Greenfield for agreeing to resign so fast. I would have gotten a better feel for who exactly I offended and then make a decision to either fight or apologize, not give up.

Oh well....

While I somewhat agree with this, I just read his final editorial from the April issue of "Surgery News," and I'm happy to see that he didn't go out like a punk. He discussed a controversial topic (Tuscon/Giffords shooting)...congratulating the trauma team, but simultaneously bringing up his distaste for Arizona gun laws.

In his farewell, he thanks several people (all women), but he doesn't say sorry. I think it's great.

Then, of course, there's a 7 and 1/2 page advertisement for Teflaro....because it's the "Surgery News" after all....



Sort of a sidenote: I usually avoid the hype trains, but I really like working with Ethicon's new Physiomesh (page 15 ad), and I'm curious what others think about it.

 

[dpmd]

Sort of a sidenote: I usually avoid the hype trains, but I really like working with Ethicon's new Physiomesh (page 15 ad), and I'm curious what others think about it.

When you do a lap ventral hernia, by virtue of the fact you have pneumoperitoneum you already have some laxity in the mesh once you desufflate. Adding in a stretchy mesh seem like it would cause more issue with still having a "lump" after the repair that can happen with big defects. Wouldn't think the patients would like it.

 

[SLUser11]

When you do a lap ventral hernia, by virtue of the fact you have pneumoperitoneum you already have some laxity in the mesh once you desufflate. Adding in a stretchy mesh seem like it would cause more issue with still having a "lump" after the repair that can happen with big defects. Wouldn't think the patients would like it.

The stretchiness seems like a non-issue to me. I like that it is lightweight, has large pores for better ingrowth, is double sided so there's not an up and down side, has markings to help with centering, and is exceptionally easy to handle laparoscopically.

To be honest, I'm surprised no other companies have thought of it before, because none of the concepts are new or revolutionary.

My main concern is that I have very little long-term experience with monocryl as an adhesion barrier. However, it makes more hypothetical sense than some of the others, and it's got to be better than PTFE, which is horrible for VHRs....

 

[Residual]

The reason I posted the "not sure if srs" image was because I really couldn't believe that somebody would refer to "so-called freedom of speech" as something that's rightfully being cracked down on. A lot of people died for so-called freedom of speech in this country, and a lot of other people around the world right now are giving up their lives to make it a reality in their country (see: last year's Nobel peace prize winner). And yes, tacky or unpopular free speech is the only kind that anyone ever needs to defend anyway.

Good lord. Maybe the ACS can establish mandatory re-education camps for wayward surgeons.

Freedom of speech has to do with protection from government interference in speech, not protection from the professional consequences of anyone's speech.

I can see how someone might find what he said offensive/belittling, and how the ACS might not want a person who prints articles like that heading their organization in a time when they're trying hard to get more woman surgeons.

The funny thing is, I bet he could have mentioned the results of the study and not offended anyone. It's not about trying to prevent discussion of issues of fact, imo, but an issue of the way he brought it up...it was his delivery that probably did him in.

 

[The Angriest Bird]

It's so sad to see several decades of hard efforts and accomplishments getting buried by a couple of words.

People, inside and outside ACS, need to realize that we are surgeons, not saints. I feel so sorry for Dr. Greenfield. He doesn't deserve to be treated like this.

 

[dpmd]

People, inside and outside ACS, need to realize that we are surgeons, not saints. I feel so sorry for Dr. Greenfield. He doesn't deserve to be treated like this.

Well I can offer him a suggestion of what to do if he is feeling depressed about it.

 

[SLUser11]

Well I can offer him a suggestion of what to do if he is feeling depressed about it.

Nice.

 

[DarknightX]

i read through what the guy said. The last sentence was questionable. And, not very wise to go that route, from a professional standpoint.

However, for people to get all worked up about it? Give me a break. Offended? Come on. Of what? How many people in position of power have let a stupid comment slip by? How about the president? Senators, congressmen?

The guy resigned his position???? Come on, we're being really hypocrites here. And, these women who write to complain to the publication...Get a life, why don't you. The guy basically said that you should sleep with your husbands. Maybe you should go and do just that, and you'll be less depressed...for real.

Best post of this whole thread.

 

[sponch]

I read his editorial. It was kind of silly. The whole innuendo about giving your girlfriend some semen for Valentine's day was in poor taste. But it was certainly no worse than things I've heard in the OR...but then again that's the OR...this was in a publication that gets sent out to everyone who is a member of the ACS. His crime is poor judgement, not the other terrible things that people are accusing him of. It certainly isn't misogeny. A little paternalistic, sure.

In any case, I like his textbook more than Sabiston's. It reads easier and isn't full of citations to esoteric and irrelevant papers. But that's just my opinion.

 

[DrNick Riviera]

No one has even mentioned the fact that, in order for this to be published, AT LEAST a couple of other people had to read it (ie, secretary, publisher, editor, etc). And none of them found it offensive? If that is true, then the public can s*** it and let the man keep his position. If some of the editors etc did find it offensive but didnt catch it or say anything, then are they getting chopped too? No single person can publish anything like this without it being read by others beforehand, thats not how journals work.

 

[JackADeli]

No one has even mentioned the fact that, in order for this to be published, AT LEAST a couple of other people had to read it ....No single person can publish anything like this without it being read by others beforehand, thats not how journals work.

Two points,
1. maybe its not in this thread, but I thought someone had in fact posted in reference to the editorial board.... [I'm not inclined at this moment to sift through all the postings].
2. Let us stop speaking of this as a "journal". I was under the impression this was in the "Surgery News".... which is not a journal.

 

[DrNick Riviera]

Two points,
1. maybe its not in this thread, but I thought someone had in fact posted in reference to the editorial board.... [I'm not inclined at this moment to sift through all the postings].
2. Let us stop speaking of this as a "journal". I was under the impression this was in the "Surgery News".... which is not a journal.

Yep, you're right JAD, WS beat me to that point somewhere in the middle...I just saw it now though. And right about the classification of the publication. I was just commenting on how, regardless of the quality of the periodical, everything is read by multiple people now before publication. But WS was right that maybe those folks are out of touch as well. Still sucks that Greenfield takes the full force without any apparent repercussions to the editors, etc.

 

[Smurfette]

Greenfield gave interviews where he discusses the article and the fall-out....
you can check out one of the transcripts here

 

[Buzz Me]

No one has even mentioned the fact that, in order for this to be published, AT LEAST a couple of other people had to read it (ie, secretary, publisher, editor, etc).

You sure? As editor-in-chief, would anyone actually be mandated to review his article before it went to press?

 

[deleted89854]

Greenfield gave interviews where he discusses the article and the fall-out....
you can check out one of the transcripts here

That interview is really depressing. Seems like the guy thought he was just obliviously sharing something he found interesting in a tongue-in-cheek way and it totally blew up in his face.

 

[Winged Scapula]

That interview is really depressing. Seems like the guy thought he was just obliviously sharing something he found interesting in a tongue-in-cheek way and it totally blew up in his face.

Well, that's another way to absorb semen.

 

[SLUser11]

Seems like the guy thought he was just obliviously sharing something he found interesting in a tongue-in-cheek way and it totally blew up in his face.

I'm trying to decide if that is a subtle semen joke. If so, it's quite funny....