Prelim Medicine in NYC

[itcomesnpints]

Hey guys, I am currently an MS4, applying to Anesthesia, planning on only applying to prelim medicine programs in the city for my internship. I am curious to hear about your experiences at preliminary medicine programs in NYC. Do you like your program? Do you wish you were doing a transitional year instead? Any feedback would be great. Thanks.

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[NotSoChill]

Current intern at Lenox Hill.

Thoroughly disappointed with the program. On interview day, their selling points were "we're q5 call" and "the prelims have the same schedule as the categoricals."

Fast forward to the beginning of internship. Two floor teams have been cut to allow categoricals to have 3 months of clinic time. Along with this, schedule went from q5 to q4 call, and all teams have significantly more patients than last year.

Prelims spend 10 months on inpatient, 7 of those on the floors. Categoricals spend 6 months on inpatient, 3 of those on the floors. There are no golden weekends, ever.

Many programs have it worse for prelims. But it's rough being blatantly lied to on interview day and only finding out about huge schedule changes when you show up for orientation.

 

[itcomesnpints]

Sorry to hear about your situation. I'd be pissed as well.

Do you at least feel you are learning enough for your time spent working?

Have you heard about any other programs?

 

[gutonc]

Sorry to hear about your situation. I'd be pissed as well.

Do you at least feel you are learning enough for your time spent working?

Have you heard about any other programs?

It should be pointed out that, while this does indeed suck, programs change their call schedules all the time, even mid-year. During my intern year we had one IM wards rotation go from Q5 o/n to Q3 with night float, then to Q4 o/n (this was with the old rules of course)...all in the course of a single year. Especially with the most recent work hour changes, I think mid-year (or between interview and internship) changes in call schedules are pretty much to be expected.

 

[gasblaster]

Current intern at Lenox Hill.

Thoroughly disappointed with the program. On interview day, their selling points were "we're q5 call" and "the prelims have the same schedule as the categoricals."

Fast forward to the beginning of internship. Two floor teams have been cut to allow categoricals to have 3 months of clinic time. Along with this, schedule went from q5 to q4 call, and all teams have significantly more patients than last year.

Prelims spend 10 months on inpatient, 7 of those on the floors. Categoricals spend 6 months on inpatient, 3 of those on the floors. There are no golden weekends, ever.

Many programs have it worse for prelims. But it's rough being blatantly lied to on interview day and only finding out about huge schedule changes when you show up for orientation.

Damn that sucks.

Hey guys, I am currently an MS4, applying to Anesthesia, planning on only applying to prelim medicine programs in the city for my internship. I am curious to hear about your experiences at preliminary medicine programs in NYC. Do you like your program? Do you wish you were doing a transitional year instead? Any feedback would be great. Thanks.

It's going to be tough to find something awesome in the city. Likely going to be the one or the other.

 

[asmith1121]

I am also at a different NYC prelim- absolutely hate it. Mostly bc everyone in NYC is so lazy and reluctant to do their job which just adds more work for you.

 

[itcomesnpints]

I live very close to the to the NY Downtown, LICH, and Brooklyn Hospital prelim med programs...I'm considering applying to them for their proximity but am a little worried that they might be more scut-heavy, hell-on-earth programs than the more academic programs like Beth Israel, St. Luke's, NYU, Lenox Hill etc.

I've accepted the fact that I will have to endure a year of pain, but I'd also like to learn something along the way. You guys heard anything good or bad about the prelim med programs at LICH, NY Downtown, and Brooklyn Hospital?

 

[asmith1121]

No matter what they tell you...there are no cushy prelim programs in manhattan. If you match at one- you will look back a year from now and realize how true. I think internship is hard everywhere. I am at one of those ones you think is better...it is a good environment with people that care about you. The biggest problem...is lack of med students, nurses can't/won't do anything for you. Secretaries talk back to you....yes, clerks!! I'm really nice so if I beg and they see my pain they will help....but ny just does not have the facilities/resources in Texas or southeast- by doing everything yourself- you waste so much time. It's very frustrating to work in such an antagonistic environment.

 

[PhiAlpha]

Hi all, any thoughts on these prelim programs in NYC?

Brookdale University Hospital and Medical Center Program
Newark Beth Israel Medical Center Program
St Barnabas Medical Center Program
Brooklyn Hospital Center Program
New York Medical College (Richmond) Program
Woodhull Medical and Mental Health Center Program
Wyckoff Heights Medical Center Program
Stamford Hospita/Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons Program
Albert Einstein College of Medicine/Montefiore (Moses and Weiler Campuses) Program
Albert Einstein College of Medicine/Montefiore (Wakefield Campus) Program
Albert Einstein College of Medicine (Jacobi) Program

 

[ar2388]

NY downtown no longer has a prelim program. also they paid $47k when all other manhattan programs pay at least $55-56k.
I am at an academic prelim program in manhattan and yes, its hard and the hours suck. I work about 65-75hours a week usuaslly. You have 2 months of elective, 1 month vacation, then 3 months ICU and 7 months floors. (1 month = 4 weeks.. hence 13). i am thankfully almost halfway there. the administration does care. the chief residents are def there to talk. and if your resident is beign aprticulary nutso and youre stayin until 10-11pm everyday, the chiefs can help out with that... usually...
you have between 2-6 weeks of night float but we cover more than one hospital and not all hospitals are equal. (most schedules have 4 weeks NF, a few with 6, and one with 2).

 

[baculum1]

Any recent thoughts on the Lenox Hill Prelim? has it changed? does it still suck?

 

[sheeed]

Any recent thoughts on the Lenox Hill Prelim? has it changed? does it still suck?

I have a friend doing ortho at lennox. Ive been out with him and his co interns (prelims) and they seem to work harder than I have been. (Im at NYHQ in flushing). Theyre going to scrap the prelim program eventually, but I have no complaints thus far. I can be done with my work by 3 pm most days. out by 430 ish which isnt bad at all for nyc

 

[greg1184]

If you really want to go to NYC so badly, you are going to have to deal with the fact that just about every program is going to have a certain amount of scut and/or malignancy. Nurses in NYC are unionized so they do not do certain things that they do everywhere else. The most telling example is floor nurses not drawing STAT blood (despite the fact they place IV's in). There are phlebotomists that do routine labs, but YOU are going to have to get that STAT troponin or CBC. The ancillary staff is piss poor. Of course these are all generalizations because there are outstanding nurses that will help you draw blood and help you out in difficult situations, and some very dedicated social workers, etc.

If you are willing to deal with this for a year, you will be fine. However it is a bit tough when intern year is simply a means to an end.

I did a surgery prelim in NYC (Bronx), which was 100% wards... some rotations significantly easier and lower volume than others. I actually loved my program and its residents, chiefs, and attendings. It was not as bad as I thought it was going to be.

Living a year in Manhattan was well worth it though. Great experience.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Man, doing more than 8 months of floors (including ICU time) especially if most of that time if spent on a standard hospital-like rotation (as opposed to sub-specialty consults or something) seems brutal. I've heard the horror stories about NYC prelims (mainly the lack of supportive nurses/ancillary staff that has already been mentioned) but I'd never guess that they'd have you do 10 months of floor work.

The whole bit about treating prelims differently than categoricals would be a huge issue for me.

However, if you are dead-set on being in NYC for your prelim, then I imagine that you're willing to put up with these issues. As an aside, does anyone know if these same issues affect NY state prelims outside of NYC? The NY nurses union is state-wide, but I only hear horror stories about NYC nurses generally being less useful, leading to excessive scut and micromanaging on the resident's part.

 

[Serous Demilune]

Man, doing more than 8 months of floors (including ICU time) especially if most of that time if spent on a standard hospital-like rotation (as opposed to sub-specialty consults or something) seems brutal. I've heard the horror stories about NYC prelims (mainly the lack of supportive nurses/ancillary staff that has already been mentioned) but I'd never guess that they'd have you do 10 months of floor work.

The whole bit about treating prelims differently than categoricals would be a huge issue for me.

However, if you are dead-set on being in NYC for your prelim, then I imagine that you're willing to put up with these issues. As an aside, does anyone know if these same issues affect NY state prelims outside of NYC? The NY nurses union is state-wide, but I only hear horror stories about NYC nurses generally being less useful, leading to excessive scut and micromanaging on the resident's part.

I go to a school in the state outside the city. The nurses I've interacted with are a mixed bag. Some pleasant and helpful, others that "advocate for their patients" by making the residents' lives a living hell, especially interns.