pre-osteopathic chiropractor

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Chiros

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I am a chiropractor and will be taking the April MCAT's. In the past, I've worked with DO's in a neighborhood clinic. Now I'm interested in pursuing osteopathy. I am 53. If anyone has any insights regarding the application process, etc. for older students, I solicit all responses. Thanks.
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I mean no disrespect when I say this (I'm a nontrad myself), but given that you'll be a minimum of 61 when you finish residency -- how many years do you expect to practice? I only ask because as an older student the loss of income can have a dramatic impact on your ability to save for retirement.
 
Holy....

This is pretty interesting.
 
Azete said:
I mean no disrespect when I say this (I'm a nontrad myself), but given that you'll be a minimum of 61 when you finish residency -- how many years do you expect to practice? I only ask because as an older student the loss of income can have a dramatic impact on your ability to save for retirement.
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Yeah I'm already kind of worried about how my health may suffer as a result of all the stress from what this process is going to be like, and I'm applying now @ 20. Couldn't imagine doing it at your age, but to each his own.

About 99% of people here are going to recommend you don't do this, just to let you know in advance.
 
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If you're financially stable I see no reason not to try.

You better be physically fit. Get ready for some long, taxing nights --> years.
 
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Frankly, I think that your time has past.

Chiros said:
I am a chiropractor and will be taking the April MCAT's. In the past, I've worked with DO's in a neighborhood clinic. Now I'm interested in pursuing osteopathy. I am 53. If anyone has any insights regarding the application process, etc. for older students, I solicit all responses. Thanks.
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You can always relish in the fact that you'll likely die before student loans are paid off and stick the government with your debt... LOL

If you are passionate then go for, but be prepared for the hard but not impossible journey.

Quite a few docs are practicing well into their 70's and a few I know are outdoing those in their 30's, as they don't have all of the family and outside issues common to those trying to become established in life. Best of Luck!
 
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Fortunately you have an ADCOM that is extremely helpful on this forum to help guide premeds and its Goro. Unfortunately in this case he's advising you not to try. He is usually correct.

I would vote working the next 12 years and retiring. As it stands you'll be so close to retirement by the time you even get to start practicing medicine that it's not even worth the hassle. You already have a good career. I'm not saying you wouldn't be able to complete the program, I'm saying that it's not a wise business choice.

What would be the reason for pursuing medicine so late? If you can answer that question with a good answer then go for it.
 
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It's really interesting that you want to go back, educate yourself, and further your career, but at 56 I imagine there are other things that could be more fulfilling than 4 rough years of studying + residency. Children, grandchildren, wife/husband, or if divorced trying to find a new partner and enjoying retirement, vacations, being a parent/grandparent, doing hobbies since you have more free-time - painting, fitness, meditation, gardening, hiking, etc...

I feel like you're getting to the age where in general most people try to reduce their hours, so they can start to relax. I'm not sure it is worth years of lost free-time or the years of debt.
 
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I went to school with a guy in his late 50s-early 60s. He's now a board-certified IM doc doing quite well. He is doing a job he loves. And who knows....he may be on this planet longer than you or I.
 
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Moose A Moose said:
If you're financially stable I see no reason not to try.
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Here are a few reasons:

1) You are taking a valuable spot from someone who will provide care for on average 30 more years of practice. It makes no sense for a school to accept you if they are looking to put out somone who will practice (competently) for years. You won't even come into your peak practice years until after you retire.

2) At 57 you are unlikely to have the stamina needed for residency. This isn't a dig on age just a reality. I see how our older attendings deal with calls. For that matter in the 10 years I have been in training I have noted a very, very significant difference in how I feel after a call. I am 20 years your junior.

3) Financially, you are going to be throwing away a few hundred thousand dollars
.
 
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Ya miss 100% of the shots ya don't take. Some schools have three year primary care tracks. You should look into them.


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Instatewaiter said:
Here are a few reasons:

1) You are taking a valuable spot from someone who will provide care for on average 30 more years of practice. It makes no sense for a school to accept you if they are looking to put out somone who will practice (competently) for years. You won't even come into your peak practice years until after you retire.

2) At 57 you are unlikely to have the stamina needed for residency. This isn't a dig on age just a reality. I see how our older attendings deal with calls. For that matter in the 10 years I have been in training I have noted a very, very significant difference in how I feel after a call. I am 20 years your junior.

3) Financially, you are going to be throwing away a few hundred thousand dollars
.
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The med school mission is to produce competent docs, not young doc who will practice 30+ yrs. Still I think 53 yrs old to start med school is way too late.
 
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feeling-dizzy said:
The med school mission is to produce competent docs, not young doc who will practice 30+ yrs. Still I think 53 yrs old to start med school is way too late.
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Yes, but there is a heavy investment that goes into each individual student. People on here are just saying that his age will play heavily against him because time is a very essential asset for practicing physicians. I will be 30 when I finish residency, therefore i will give back 33+ years that he otherwise couldn't. I am all for chasing dreams and achieving goals, but the investment isn't nearly worth that of what a younger student would be.
 
Instatewaiter said:
Here are a few reasons:

1) You are taking a valuable spot from someone who will provide care for on average 30 more years of practice. It makes no sense for a school to accept you if they are looking to put out somone who will practice (competently) for years. You won't even come into your peak practice years until after you retire.

2) At 57 you are unlikely to have the stamina needed for residency. This isn't a dig on age just a reality. I see how our older attendings deal with calls. For that matter in the 10 years I have been in training I have noted a very, very significant difference in how I feel after a call. I am 20 years your junior.

3) Financially, you are going to be throwing away a few hundred thousand dollars
.
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1) Spare me, Mother Teresa.

2) Yeah. Which is why I mentioned that bit about physical fitness in my post you neglected to include in your quote.

3) Are you his financial advisor?
 
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If this is really what you want to do then go for it. It's up to the ADCOMs to decide whether or not you are too old, not SDN. The only thing I would caution you about beforehand is to make sure you're in good shape and are going to be okay working 7 days a week for the next 2 years academically (and obviously rotations/residency).

The studying doesn't sound as taxing as it should, but it's every day all day
 
Moose A Moose said:
1) Spare me, Mother Teresa.

2) Yeah. Which is why I mentioned that bit about physical fitness in my post you neglected to include in your quote.

3) Are you his financial advisor?
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Mother Teresa? Interesting... Never been acused of being compasionate.

But seriously, this isn't some medical student finshing his training at 50 and will practive for 20 years, this is a person who is starting his training probably at 55. If lucky, he will finish his residency at 61. At most, he has 10, maybe 15 good years of practice.

Medical schools aren't just selling a product that anyone can buy. They feel they have a mission to provide doctors for the population which will practice for years upon years which is why there is an interview process, a diveristy mission rather than just raw numbers. Whether or not I agree with the reality, doesn't change the reality.
 
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And getting out of residency at 61 would restrict him to PCP, no fellowships, and to one of the few med schools that offer a 3 year accelerated track.

Course who knows. OP might become a super centenarian. Then who's laughing last?
 
I would try really hard to find a new passion if I were 53 and already a chiropractor. The stress, loss of time and lack of financial incentives will probably overshadow any intrinsic rewards. The intrinsic rewards that one can find in medicine can be found elsewhere. Knowing where requires some soul-searching.
 
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I agree 100%. Medical school is not the Make-A-Wish Foundation.


OrdinaryDO said:
Yes, but there is a heavy investment that goes into each individual student. People on here are just saying that his age will play heavily against him because time is a very essential asset for practicing physicians. I will be 30 when I finish residency, therefore i will give back 33+ years that he otherwise couldn't. I am all for chasing dreams and achieving goals, but the investment isn't nearly worth that of what a younger student would be.
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PA school is a pretty sweet gig. It makes mountains more sense to go that route than med school at your age.
 
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Chiros said:
I am a chiropractor and will be taking the April MCAT's. In the past, I've worked with DO's in a neighborhood clinic. Now I'm interested in pursuing osteopathy. I am 53. If anyone has any insights regarding the application process, etc. for older students, I solicit all responses. Thanks.
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I would give it a shot because why not? Get the numbers you need to be competitive and try your luck with 10-15 DO schools. Size yourself up with other applicants at your interview, and take the DO philosophy and physician lifestyle seriously and prepare to commit to medicine with the intensity it deserves. Age is just a number, do what is true to your convictions.

It feels awkward to even give input on a 53 yr old man's life while being a 23 yr old....
 
Look at some of my posts for tips. Its possible for an opm, but what are your stats? You really really have to consider the worth. Are you planning on residency and practicing or just gaining knowledge?

Best of luck

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Depending on what interests you about osteopathy...if it's the OMM, you may also consider attending a Canadian osteopathy school. You spend 5 years learning OMM/cranial without the "doctoring" aspect, and the cost is much much less. Also, the time commitment is one 4-day weekend every other month for that period. I know several Canadian osteopaths, and their work is excellent. PM me if you're interested in more info.
 
Chiros said:
I am a chiropractor and will be taking the April MCAT's. In the past, I've worked with DO's in a neighborhood clinic. Now I'm interested in pursuing osteopathy. I am 53. If anyone has any insights regarding the application process, etc. for older students, I solicit all responses. Thanks.
Click to expand...

I'm a chiropractor who may go to osteopathic school. I'm 48 years young and have energy coming out of my ears. Med school or osteopathic school will be easy. Just go through the motions and study hard and you'll get your license.
 
feeling-dizzy said:
The med school mission is to produce competent docs, not young doc who will practice 30+ yrs. Still I think 53 yrs old to start med school is way too late.
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53 is not too late. You'll be licensed before 60 and you can easily work for 20 more years. It's so worth it to go for it. If you made it through chiro school you'll make it through med school. Trust me!
 
drjohndc said:
Remember we're talking about someone who's already a licensed physician.
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You're not a licensed physician until you take the USMLE and complete an accredited residency (at least in the US). I'm not saying chiropractic school is easy, but it's not medical school either.
 
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Megarooski said:
You're not a licensed physician until you take the USMLE and complete an accredited residency (at least in the US). I'm not saying chiropractic school is easy, but it's not medical school either.
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DO doesn't "have" to take the USMLE although they should
 
Megarooski said:
You're not a licensed physician until you take the USMLE and complete an accredited residency (at least in the US). I'm not saying chiropractic school is easy, but it's not medical school either.
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No I mean if he's already a chiropractor then he is already a physician. Chiropractors are physicians by law. In court if a chiropractor says " I'm just a chiropractor" then the plaintiff's lawyer asks the chiropractor to take out his license and read it. They ask them to read it out loud because it says on the license Chiropractic Physician. So, chiros are held to that standard legally.
 
depends. The USMLE is a better written test, but the COMLEX has a more forgivable curve. You have to take the COMLEX in order to graduate from DO school, but if you want to match into MD residencies you usually also take the USMLE so they can compare apples to apples.

The COMLEX tends to be easier for DO students because of the more forgivable curve and the fact that they teach to the COMLEX not the USMLE. USMLE has a few differing topics but not much on the whole.
ex: their biostats in more in-depth than the COMLEX teaches, but you can teach yourself when studying for the USMLE.
 
Megarooski said:
You're not a licensed physician until you take the USMLE and complete an accredited residency (at least in the US). I'm not saying chiropractic school is easy, but it's not medical school either.
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I consider podiatrists physicians and they don't take the USMLE or COMLEX, but they do a residency just the same.
 
Okay, we've seen this movie a few times. Again, a chiro is considered a physician only "with respect to certain specified treatment" e.g.:
SSA: https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0600401295
CMS: https://www.cms.gov/Regulations-and-Guidance/Guidance/Manuals/downloads/ge101c05.pdf

BTW psychologists can call themselves physicians under some rules e.g.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/20/702.404

Generally, a physician is defined as an MD or DO licensed by a state board to practice medicine e.g.:
Federal: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/20/725.703
California: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201520162AB15
Texas: http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/OC/htm/OC.151.htm
New York: http://www.op.nysed.gov/prof/med/article131.htm
 
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drjohndc said:
No I mean if he's already a chiropractor then he is already a physician. Chiropractors are physicians by law. In court if a chiropractor says " I'm just a chiropractor" then the plaintiff's lawyer asks the chiropractor to take out his license and read it. They ask them to read it out loud because it says on the license Chiropractic Physician. So, chiros are held to that standard legally.
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Perhaps by law in some states but not by reality. And no chiropractors are not held to the same legal standard. Why do you think there aren't chiropractors rounding as the physician in the wards of bascially any real hospital?

This discussion kind of reminds me of the dentist from the Hangover movie. I'm a PHYSICIAN!! No, you're a chiropractor.

Flight attendant: Is there a doctor on the flight?
drjohndc: I'm a doctor. I'm a chiropractor
Flight attendant: No is there a real doctor on the flight?
 
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Go for it. I always support those who have a will to do something. As you can see from the posts, the world is full of people trying to discourage you. What am I saying? A 53 year old person already knows this. As for others, I'm not sure why you are all jumping to discourage this person. S/he didn't ask if they are too old or not to pursue medical school, and you people pounce on them like on a prey.
 
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Instatewaiter said:
Perhaps by law in some states but not by reality. And no chiropractors are not held to the same legal standard. Why do you think there aren't chiropractors rounding as the physician in the wards of bascially any real hospital?

This discussion kind of reminds me of the dentist from the Hangover movie. I'm a PHYSICIAN!! No, you're a chiropractor.

Flight attendant: Is there a doctor on the flight?
drjohndc: I'm a doctor. I'm a chiropractor
Flight attendant: No is there a real doctor on the flight?
Click to expand...

I agree with you by law they are physicians and not in reality. That's why I'm going to osteopathic school to become a DO.
 
drjohndc said:
I agree with you by law they are physicians and not in reality. That's why I'm going to osteopathic school to become a DO.
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By law (medicare/cms) in some instances Psychologists also fall into the "physician" category and in some states they even prescribe, BUT even being a Psychologist myself with full medical staff privileges I would not go as far as calling myself a physician. Yes I might heal using psychotherapy and create behavior change to treat type 2 diabetes but that does not mean I'm a physician. To be a physician one needs 4yrs of medical school and then residency in medicine. That training is unique and different than chiropractors, nurses, PAs, Psychologists, etc. who all have potential value in what they do but are different.

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DrMikeP said:
By law (medicare/cms) in some instances Psychologists also fall into the "physician" category and in some states they even prescribe, BUT even being a Psychologist myself with full medical staff privileges I would not go as far as calling myself a physician. Yes I might heal using psychotherapy and create behavior change to treat type 2 diabetes but that does not mean I'm a physician. To be a physician one needs 4yrs of medical school and then residency in medicine. That training is unique and different than chiropractors, nurses, PAs, Psychologists, etc. who all have potential value in what they do but are different.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

But it does say on my license "physician". Serious.
 
drjohndc said:
53 is not too late. You'll be licensed before 60 and you can easily work for 20 more years. It's so worth it to go for it. If you made it through chiro school you'll make it through med school. Trust me!
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For one, I don't think that someone who has completed chiro school way earlier in their life is going to have an easy time going to DO school decades later, content aside.... Secondly, if you haven't done it yet, why should someone "trust" you? Not saying it's impossible, it just seems baseless.

To play devil's advocate for these guys in terms of technicality - we say DOs are physicians, but they aren't viewed as such in all countries. Many countries still don't acknowledge DO credentials.

All this notwithstanding, OP, why do you want to go into medicine now? Especially osteopathic vs. allopathic?
 
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