POUNDED on COMLEX II

[hooperg]

Anyone else get totally and utterly slammed on COMLEX II? From those at my school with whom I've spoken that took form B09C specifically, their exam scores were terrible too.

Anyone else have problems with B09C? I was 150 points lower on Step 2 than Step 1

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[IMDoc607]

I thought that I rocked the exam. Primarily used USMLE World to prep for Step 2 and passed all shelf exams with no problem. My roomate had a 650 on Step I and scored 459 on Step 2.

It seems that people I know that used U World took a hit. I was truly shocked. LECOM Clinical Ed said that the average pass rate is down to 85% nationally from 94%.

I'm sure there are different exams given on different days. How do we know which one we had in the end?

??

 

[J1515]

Yea.....so whats your point? Are you trying to say that the majority of people on this thread did better? I think not. The increase in scores that you always hear from people did not happen this year. I know plenty of people that echo the same results that people on this thread do. The national pass rate dropped to 84%.....self-explanatory

People who perform much better or are satisfied have no need to post. It's the ones who want to b*tc% and complain that post. Hence these are the posts you see.

 

[ShyRem]

My point is if there are people who did better on level 2, then it's hard to blame the exam.

It's obvious those who did worse feel it can't possibly be their fault - after all, they studied for the USMLE exam. So therefor, it MUST be the fault of the exam.

That's my point. Y'all are like the parents of the kid who fails in school and blames the school or the teacher because it can't possibly be the fact the kid didn't study.

I'm not saying COMLEX is perfect (neither is the USMLE). But for heavens sakes, try and be objective. If EVERYONE did worse, then yes I could see blaming the exam. But not everyone did worse. Some did better.

 

[HELLENICSCHOLAR]

I don't believe that the calculation of scores is consistent across the board. If this were the case, I believe that you would still see a distribution of scores where the bottom tier of the class is failing, with the upper tiers only experiencing a reduction in scores.

This has not been the case. There are top tier students that have failed along with others, and bottom tiered students that have performed well.

I believe that there is also an inconsistency in the versions of the exams that are out there.

 

[DD214_DOC]

Look, I just took the exam and I may be bitching with everyone else in four weeks, but honestly I didn't find the COMLEX THAT bad. The level of complexity regarding your knowledge of medicine is not that bad. Most of concepts and principles are pretty basic; I did not see or at least recognize, many "zebras" during the course of the exam.

The difficulty is how the information is presented. They do not give you fluff. Every detail in the question is there for a reason. I think the questions are intentionally vague because the presentation of patients is vague. Although it's just opinion, I think the COMLEX style of questioning is probably more applicable to clinical practice.

Did I make some stupid mistakes? Yep. Did I fall into he "gut reaction" trap of COMLEX? Yep. Some questions are intentionally setup to elicit a gut reaction that is wrong. YOu really have to read the ENTIRE question, because many times I found there would be a single detail somewhere at the end that completely changed the diagnosis. Did I find myself struggling to pick between two answers that both seemed right? Yep.

That's COMLEX I guess. What I found that seemed to help during the exam was to write out the case on the little dry-erase sheet and come up with a diagnosis and plan BEFORE looking at the answers. I'll let you know in 3-4 weeks whether or not it worked.

I read Crush STep 2 and did 2300 practice questions between COMBANK and COMQUEST. If I didn't at least pass, I think I have a pretty good reason to come back here and bitch. If you used UW and studied like it's the USMLE and did poorly or failed, you probably don't have much of a reason to bitch.

 

[oreosandsake]

i walked out of the comlex 2 pretty confident. I scored over 600 on level 1 but took over an 80 point drop (one SD?!) on 2. ouch...

scored 75% or so on combank as well. (first time through, doing 200Q a day for 4 days)

don't let the people (single person with 10 sdn screen names?) on here peddling their comlex Q banks fool you.

only know one person that took the comlex 2 this past year that had a increase in comlex level 2 score from level 1. (604 vs 586 and with usmle 1/2 of 242 and 252) everyone else, N ~25, had varying degrees of drop from 40 up to 110.

not the happiest camper right now. just hope this doesn't affect my match

 

[DaveinDallas]

My point is if there are people who did better on level 2, then it's hard to blame the exam.

...

That's my point. Y'all are like the parents of the kid who fails in school and blames the school or the teacher because it can't possibly be the fact the kid didn't study.

...

Good point, ShyRem. Whether we like it or not, we are responsible for our scores, period.

For whatver reason, on test day, I had x% of the questions correct - whether that be due to lack of knowledge (i.e. studying), my misinterpretation of what the question was asking, the question asking for information that I had yet to learn but was listed in the 'here's what's covered' paperwork for the exam, my shoes were too tight or I was wearing my Mickey Mouse boxers rather than my Superman boxers....whatever....

The bottom line takeaway is this: Was there anything on that exam that you did not know or that you did know but not well enough that you will need for patient care. In less than 6 months, most of us who took that beast will be standing in front of a family having to answer questions. The purpose of that exam AND the PE are to point out deficiencies. Whether or not they do a good job of it is an argument for others, not 4th year medical student test takers, most of whom have little idea of what it's like to be on the other side of the fence, answering sharp and pointed questions from a family who's 15 year old is under your care after he's ridden his bike into a ditch and has managed to jam the handlebars into his abdomen with sufficient force to lacerate his liver. That's the test that really counts. The COMLEX in all it's permutations merely points out areas to concentrate on......

If you take away a positive message from them, the exams don't stink as much......

 

[okayplayer]

i walked out of the comlex 2 pretty confident. I scored over 600 on level 1 but took over an 80 point drop (one SD?!) on 2. ouch...

scored 75% or so on combank as well. (first time through, doing 200Q a day for 4 days)

don't let the people (single person with 10 sdn screen names?) on here peddling their comlex Q banks fool you.

only know one person that took the comlex 2 this past year that had a increase in comlex level 2 score from level 1. (604 vs 586 and with usmle 1/2 of 242 and 252) everyone else, N ~25, had varying degrees of drop from 40 up to 110.

not the happiest camper right now. just hope this doesn't affect my match

I went up 120 points, 560 to 680. Studied for a grand total of 4 hours after taking the USMLE Step 2.

 

[oreosandsake]

I went up 120 points, 560 to 680. Studied for a grand total of 4 hours after taking the USMLE Step 2.

good job.

still seems like the minority. 120 is pretty big. you must have crushed step2.

maybe i should've taken it a bit more seriously...

 

[IMDoc607]

To all of those saying we are blaming the test. I jsut recieved this email from our SGA.....

Greeting class of 2010!
I am gathering information regarding the revised COMLEX II exam, to include PE, for presentation to Dr Veit, President Schure, and COSGP. Apparently Deans across the country are at arms, and I was at a loss when asked by Dean Veit how our Seniors felt. They are concerned and want SGA to push the issue at COSGP, as well as brief them on the concerns of those affected. Please feel free to email, call, set up an appointment, or stop by the January 13th SGA General Body meeting.
Sincerely,

In response to some questions posted. I left the original vague as not to misguide any feedback, but the COMLEX II was changed in June of 2009, those that took it in May did well, as per usual, the June --> current scores have plummeted over 9% nationally, with no correlation to grades, ranking, or written scores (ie, our best have failed same as our average students). If you have been affected, or have been interacting with individuals who have, please contact me in what ever way makes you comfortable, to include a letter under the door with no names or a phone call. I assure you input will remain anonymous, and if you would like, we can use surveymonkey to protect identities. I leave for COSGP on January 14th, but welcome the info anytime.
Basically, if you are a solid student who did well in school and on COMLEX I, and you took COMLEX II after May of 09 and much worse than you thought you would, or you failed one part of it, this a an opportunity to let the powers that be know how it has affected your life! THEY ARE CONCERNED, and are listening!


Concerning....I will keep everyone updated.

 

[IMDoc607]

My friend forwarded this to:

NBOME made a change effective in June based on faulty psychometric data, and the result was a drop in scores and PE failures with no predictable correlation

 

[okayplayer]

Where's the data/references to support these claims?

 

[IMDoc607]

Where's the data/references to support these claims?

Kenneth Veit , DO....Dean of PCOM


That's enough reference and data for me. LECOM clinical ed echoed the samething that was posted earlier.

 

[Pedsdreamer]

So I wanted to understand how I can improve and saw on my CE score report under the topic categories:

Osteopathic Principles & Practice

General Osteopathic Medicine

Half of my exam was OMM and did really well on the first section and bad on the general osteopathic medicine...so am trying to figure out now where I can improve but this break down is not clear to me.

Thanks for your help!

 

[SURVIVOR25]

So they used bad data to make these changes and many people paid the price. I think the NBOME should give specific break downs by categories like the USMLE on score reports so people can actually see where they went wrong if they have to take it again like the above poster.

Please add that suggestion if you can to your representative because to keep allowing people to retake the exam not knowing what went wrong last time then they are setting you up for another disaster.

Kenneth Veit , DO....Dean of PCOM


That's enough reference and data for me. LECOM clinical ed echoed the samething that was posted earlier.

 

[okayplayer]

x

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

x

hey, I was wondering what sources you used for the shelf tests? (mainly for gen surg, IM, peds, psych). I'm done with OB

Did studying those sources help a lot with board prep for step and level 2? I noticed you didn't do much besides UW and some step up to med ....

 

[IMDoc607]

Guys.....PM with suggestions for board preperation. I will forward it to our representative and make sure it is presented. I know many people who have been severely effected because of this.

 

[okayplayer]

hey, I was wondering what sources you used for the shelf tests? (mainly for gen surg, IM, peds, psych). I'm done with OB

Did studying those sources help a lot with board prep for step and level 2? I noticed you didn't do much besides UW and some step up to med ....

Hey,

For the NBME shelves at my school this is what I used:
Gen Surgery - Pestana notes (pdf - google it, these are money) and Case Files
IM - Step Up to Medicine (phenomenal book), MKSAP questions for medical students
Peds - Pre-Test (awesome) and Case Files
Psych - Case Files, Blueprints
OB - Blueprints, Case Files

My school also paid for Kaplan QBank for the year, so I used those occasionally for shelves, though not for Step 2 prep at the end of the year.

I felt those all served me well for the shelves (averaged an 80 raw = 85-90th percentile or something).

All I used for Step 2 was USMLE World religiously and maybe half of Step Up to Medicine (for the areas I felt weak in). I took notebook after notebook of notes from USMLE World answers and reviewed those too.

Certainly not the be all end all but it worked okay for me. 269 USMLE Step II

After I took the USMLE I spent 1/2 day reviewing all the OMM that is relevant/crammable - VSRs, etc. 684 Comlex Level II (I think..something like that)

Good luck. I found all of this much more enjoyable to study than Step I stuff, but that's just me.

 

[ShyRem]

I used the NMS series for shelf exams, B&W, boards boot camp prep course for level 2. I did better than on level 1.

 

[HELLENICSCHOLAR]

To all of those saying we are blaming the test. I jsut recieved this email from our SGA.....

Greeting class of 2010!
I am gathering information regarding the revised COMLEX II exam, to include PE, for presentation to Dr Veit, President Schure, and COSGP. Apparently Deans across the country are at arms, and I was at a loss when asked by Dean Veit how our Seniors felt. They are concerned and want SGA to push the issue at COSGP, as well as brief them on the concerns of those affected. Please feel free to email, call, set up an appointment, or stop by the January 13th SGA General Body meeting.
Sincerely,

In response to some questions posted. I left the original vague as not to misguide any feedback, but the COMLEX II was changed in June of 2009, those that took it in May did well, as per usual, the June --> current scores have plummeted over 9% nationally, with no correlation to grades, ranking, or written scores (ie, our best have failed same as our average students). If you have been affected, or have been interacting with individuals who have, please contact me in what ever way makes you comfortable, to include a letter under the door with no names or a phone call. I assure you input will remain anonymous, and if you would like, we can use surveymonkey to protect identities. I leave for COSGP on January 14th, but welcome the info anytime.
Basically, if you are a solid student who did well in school and on COMLEX I, and you took COMLEX II after May of 09 and much worse than you thought you would, or you failed one part of it, this a an opportunity to let the powers that be know how it has affected your life! THEY ARE CONCERNED, and are listening!


Concerning....I will keep everyone updated.

How can we contact you? I've seen the same thing at LECOM. The score results is very inconsistent with top performers getting slammed along with other levels. There has to be different versions of the exam. If the exams were consistent, then performance results would be consistent and reflect student performance throughout the 4 years.

I failed Step II CK and am awaiting my score for the 2nd round from Dec 9th.

 

[december07]

How can we contact you? I've seen the same thing at LECOM. The score results is very inconsistent with top performers getting slammed along with other levels. There has to be different versions of the exam. If the exams were consistent, then performance results would be consistent and reflect student performance throughout the 4 years.

I failed Step II CK and am awaiting my score for the 2nd round from Dec 9th.

There is no way to know if there are different versions to this exam. The NBOME took down the test version on the score report. So if you log back into your account now to see the test version, it's not there anymore. So there you have it! B09C no longer exists.

 

[ShyRem]

Every test was listed as B09C. Mine was too before they took off the designation.

 

[HELLENICSCHOLAR]

I've never seen the famous B09C number that everyone seems to have written about. Where is/was it located?

 

[IMDoc607]

How can we contact you? I've seen the same thing at LECOM. The score results is very inconsistent with top performers getting slammed along with other levels. There has to be different versions of the exam. If the exams were consistent, then performance results would be consistent and reflect student performance throughout the 4 years.

I failed Step II CK and am awaiting my score for the 2nd round from Dec 9th.

PM me.....I remember the whole debate of the B09C test. Now that we have been told this, that test must of been different and more difficult because it was AFTER May when they adjusted the scoring. I have personally seen people that have been massively effected.

PM me with ideas

 

[december07]

Isn't it strange that that NBOME took off the designation of the test on the score report? They must have done it recently too, cause I know it was there last month. Maybe they're reading SDN like the rest of us, hehehe.

 

[JJcandy]

I too was wondering if there any actions taken regarding the recent changes to COMLEX. Are people getting their scores re-evaluated? Will there be some sort of announcement so the residency programs know about this drop in the national average due to the recent changes?

 

[ShyRem]

JJ that announcement would be much too late at this point. Those affected are applying NOW and the AOA match interviews are already completed, rank lists are due 1/22, and match day is 2/8. Any decisions made on the basis of those level 2 scores have already been made.

 

[IMDoc607]

I heard there will be more meetings with the deans within the next few days.

 

[ShyRem]

not vegetablings?

(sorry, had to)

 

[IMDoc607]

not vegetablings?

(sorry, had to)

Fixed it....better for you

lol

 

[jakstat]

well I just failed comlex 2 again! things I did in addition this time. went through all combank/comquest questions at least 70 percent correct. went through saverse. this is prob the 3rd time i went through that book. Not only did I fail but my score went down 60 points! I really dont know what to think at this point. Review program?

Side note, but equally important, how to people afford going through this? more private loans?

 

[zman1910]

Jakstat,

Same here failed again. This was my third attempt. I studied my ass off and had no problems with step 1 whatsoever. What sucks more is that I missed it by a point ...385(74)

USMLEworld - 70% - mid 80's percentile
Combank - 87%
Comquest - 88%

Guys I have no idea what I'm doing wrong and my family and I are unbelievably frustrated. I need some advice bc I have never had this sort of problem before. I honestly feel like I'm being played for money bc I came out thinking I most likely passed.

All qbanks tell me I should be doing fairly well. My shelfs and grades are pretty good. I need help bc my life has been drastically tough as a result of this. I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

Can anyone offer advice. I'm thinking about sending a rescore at this point....

 

[hooperg]

Jakstat,

Same here failed again. This was my third attempt. I studied my ass off and had no problems with step 1 whatsoever. What sucks more is that I missed it by a point ...385(74)

USMLEworld - 70% - mid 80's percentile
Combank - 87%
Comquest - 88%

Guys I have no idea what I'm doing wrong and my family and I are unbelievably frustrated. I need some advice bc I have never had this sort of problem before. I honestly feel like I'm being played for money bc I came out thinking I most likely passed.

All qbanks tell me I should be doing fairly well. My shelfs and grades are pretty good. I need help bc my life has been drastically tough as a result of this. I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

Can anyone offer advice. I'm thinking about sending a rescore at this point....

There is absolutely no logical reason outside of perhaps test anxiety that you should be failing Step II of the COMLEX with scores like that on your prep banks--assuming that those scores are random sets once through and not retakes.

Have you taken any of the NBME or COMSAE exams under strict conditions? If so, what were your scores? What was your Step I score?

I truly feel for your anger and confusion at this junction. Though it may be financially stressful, I suggest taking a few months off and then taking a review course. In addition, take the USMLE Step II CK. If you pass this exam and even do well on it, it will significantly help your residency application process and shed light on what's going on with COMLEX II CK.

All the best to you.

 

[DD214_DOC]

I thankfully passed on the first try. I received my official score report today and noted something rather interesting. Every category extends pretty far into, "High Performance" (some being ONLY in high performance) and yet my score is pretty low for what I would consider to be on par with the performance profile. Something fishy is definitely going on.

 

[Jonathan13180]

I thankfully passed on the first try. I received my official score report today and noted something rather interesting. Every category extends pretty far into, "High Performance" (some being ONLY in high performance) and yet my score is pretty low for what I would consider to be on par with the performance profile. Something fishy is definitely going on.

I too received my score report today and most, if not all categories were to the "right of the green dotted line", except for one subject which was in the low/borderline category...and yet I failed?

 

[northtexdoc2010]

Passed the PE on my 2nd try! I love this forum for a place I can vent and see what others are saying as well.

 

[IMDoc607]

I can't release the exact email because PCOM asked us not to, but basically the part we all care about is they will not be making any residency programs aware of this problem. They say the DO residencies should be aware because of their involvement in this issue, but they will not inform the MD programs.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

I can't release the exact email because PCOM asked us not to, but basically the part we all care about is they will not be making any residency programs aware of this problem. They say the DO residencies should be aware because of their involvement in this issue, but they will not inform the MD programs.

How will this improve the situation with DO programs anyway? A fail is a fail, right? Will they make special lenience for those who failed? I don't understand (not being sarcastic, but I don't see how it helps).

 

[IMDoc607]

How will this improve the situation with DO programs anyway? A fail is a fail, right? Will they make special lenience for those who failed? I don't understand (not being sarcastic, but I don't see how it helps).

I am sorry but I don't know the answer to that question.

 

[Jonathan13180]

I am sorry but I don't know the answer to that question.

The truth is, it wont do a thing. Yes, the NBOME has been made aware of this situation, but do you honestly feel the nbome is going to change its policies? Or, do you think the nbome is going to put an asterik by the students' who have failed and underneath make some comment about how these students did badly during the "change" in test format? IF so, would that benefit anyone? I can say that some of the PDs that I interviewed with were well aware of the issue, but ultimately, it doesnt behoove students to try and place blame (even minimal) on the test itself to residency programs.

The focus should be on finding out WHY this has happened so that future test-takers DONT have to go through this-unfortunately, however, the NBOME does not release any more info than is on our score reports.

 

[okayplayer]

I'm far from an NBOME apologist, but there are some people on here with some really crazy conspiracy theories. Like I've said before, I got a 99th percentile USMLE --> 99th percentile COMLEX. Best friend at my school 98th percentile USMLE --> 99th percentile COMLEX.

My point is, some people on here imply that you take the COMLEX and then your score is spit out by a random score generator. I think that is ridiculous.

 

[IMDoc607]

I'm far from an NBOME apologist, but there are some people on here with some really crazy conspiracy theories. Like I've said before, I got a 99th percentile USMLE --> 99th percentile COMLEX. Best friend at my school 98th percentile USMLE --> 99th percentile COMLEX.

My point is, some people on here imply that you take the COMLEX and then your score is spit out by a random score generator. I think that is ridiculous.

I havn't read anything like that on this thread. Maybe I missed it. With that being said, there is concrete evidence that the NBOME screwed the Class of 2010.

 

[hooperg]

[/B]

I havn't read anything like that on this thread. Maybe I missed it. With that being said, there is concrete evidence that the NBOME screwed the Class of 2010.

Yes, yes they did. I doubt that it matters to them though, as the NBOME--like the AOA--exists only to serve itself and the top echelon of pseudo-physician bureaucrats that populate it.

 

[J1515]

[/B]

I havn't read anything like that on this thread. Maybe I missed it. With that being said, there is concrete evidence that the NBOME screwed the Class of 2010.

Yeah, they failed the entire class of 2010 and ruined any chance of residency for them. I know people who did 600+ on step II recently.

 

[IMDoc607]

Yeah, they failed the entire class of 2010 and ruined any chance of residency for them. I know people who did 600+ on step II recently.

you act like I care personally. I did not go down or do poorly. What don't you get? The NBOME itself acknowledge a problem
and so did the deans. if they weren't concerned why did they set up a meeting? Doesnt the passing rate this year speak for itself?

 

[DD214_DOC]

you act like I care personally. I did not go down or do poorly. What don't you get? The NBOME itself acknowledge a problem
and so did the deans. if they weren't concerned why did they set up a meeting? Doesnt the passing rate this year speak for itself?

Somewhere on SDN is a link with ACTUAL DATA regarding pass rates for all levels of the COMLEX. Apparently, the first-time pass rates for all levels has always been in the mid 80s; I have seen this figure before.

However, while waiting for the PE to begin, other studs were discussing the pass rate being 93%. I wonder if anyone actually knows?

Everyone really needs to keep in mind that this is a scaled, standardized examination. It's a bell curve and so there is an equal number of people on either side. It is likely that the mean for students in the past year or so was a bit higher than the standard 500 so the NBOME simply readjusted where the middle of the curve will fall, causing those people who may have otherwise scored a 430 to now score a 390; I certainly felt like my score should have been considerably higher given the amount of time I put into preparing for the exam.

Besides, it's not like the NBOME is going to say, "My bad" and give everyone who has taken the CE since June an additional 20-30 points.

 

[IMDoc607]

Somewhere on SDN is a link with ACTUAL DATA regarding pass rates for all levels of the COMLEX. Apparently, the first-time pass rates for all levels has always been in the mid 80s; I have seen this figure before.

However, while waiting for the PE to begin, other studs were discussing the pass rate being 93%. I wonder if anyone actually knows?

Everyone really needs to keep in mind that this is a scaled, standardized examination. It's a bell curve and so there is an equal number of people on either side. It is likely that the mean for students in the past year or so was a bit higher than the standard 500 so the NBOME simply readjusted where the middle of the curve will fall, causing those people who may have otherwise scored a 430 to now score a 390; I certainly felt like my score should have been considerably higher given the amount of time I put into preparing for the exam.

Besides, it's not like the NBOME is going to say, "My bad" and give everyone who has taken the CE since June an additional 20-30 points.

We were told an official statement would not be released because it is a "senisitive issue." I don't understand why people still can't realize the test was flawed this year. The NBOME has more or less admitted it in the emails we are receiving. I am NOT saying in the email they wrote "We were wrong and we are sorry" but they are explaining what happened with the exam and the faulty data they used. I even have the whole transcript from the teleconference with the NBOME.

I'll keep you guys updated

 

[DD214_DOC]

We were told an official statement would not be released because it is a "senisitive issue." I don't understand why people still can't realize the test was flawed this year. The NBOME has more or less admitted it in the emails we are receiving. I am NOT saying in the email they wrote "We were wrong and we are sorry" but they are explaining what happened with the exam and the faulty data they used. I even have the whole transcript from the teleconference with the NBOME.

I'll keep you guys updated

Perhaps, but the vast majority of us have not seen any of this official information. Until we do, it all still remains SDN conjecture.

 

[ShyRem]

Talk is just talk without backup. Even if you posted a "transcript" there is nothing official from NBOME and thus will likely be viewed as so much speculation and conjecture.