post-interview impressions of programs?

[crackerjack]

The bottom line: if you want a more relaxed program dont come to BU.

Well said. It seems that you know a great deal more than I about BU and Tufts... I guess that's why this forum is here. Thanks for the information, and you're right about the bottom line: you will work hard at BU, which is a good thing for some. We choose programs for different reasons, or else we'd all automatically submit the same match list starting with Partners, UCSF, etc etc.

But enough about that.

About Cornell-- I thought it was fantastic. It has a great location, and the neuro program is very strong. I liked it better than Columbia, because the location is better and the residents seemed more relaxed-- at Columbia, the residents were really nice, but they seemed overworked. Then again, I was talking to someone who was in the Neuro ICU at the time and they were q4 and super busy. The subsidized (partially) housing doesn't really go that far, but it is a plus to be so close to the hospital. The facilities at Cornell are like most in NYC (with the exception of Mt. Sinai which seems to have more updated areas)-- its a little older, but still impressive. I feel like in terms of prestige or reputation Columbia and Cornell are neck to neck with Columbia coming out on top (faculty, overall hospital), and Mt. Sinai is right below those two with NYU. Actually someone told me that they felt Columbia was alone in the first tier, then in second tier was Mt. Sinai and Cornell, and NYU was next. I really don't think it matters though. I still think Mt. Sinai's chair could stand to take it down a notch though. During our morning report, he basically massacred a PGY-2 for a bad presentation (which was, granted, not the greatest case presentation I've ever seen, but still uncomfortable to watch in an interview group setting).

Hey-- this may seem silly and obvious to everyone but me, but did you all know that when they have those dinners, the residents write evaluations on the applicants? I know they do this at Mt. Sinai because someone I know said, "Hey, so and so resident at Mt. Sinai wrote a good evaluation about you," and I said, "They write formal evaluations?? I only talked to them at dinner." I don't know, that kind of makes me mad. I mean, I know they are weeding out the crazy people and the antisocial types, and there must be some sort of conversation going on post-interview between residents and PDs, but everyone at those dinners makes such a big deal about "we have nothing to do with the application process, we have no say, just be yourselves-- what happens here doesn't go back to anyone." The program director at BU actually told me about an applicant who had been there several weeks prior to my interview, who he and the other faculty members had liked, but then he found out that one of the residents hadn't liked the applicant. He then went and found that resident, and asked him why he didn't like the applicant, and then based on that conversation, they decided to move that applicant further down their list than originally planned. (The BU PD was saying this to show me how highly he holds the residents' opinions.) What do you guys think?

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[scm]

hmm thats interesting (re: dinners), i didnt know that about Sinai..can't be that important since clearly a large number of people don't make the dinners/some places dont have them. i think oeverall it probably can help/hurt depending on what residents think of you. obviously at UMich they have them interviewing, i know at other places residents have mentioned that they have some input. hmm, but when we got those initial invites/letters and they mentioned dinner, perhaps it was misleading when many places stated that attendance would in no way impact your application and so on..

 

[Head]

Does anyone have any more thoughts on Cleveland Clinic? They are going to be towards the top of my rank list, but I'm having trouble deciding where. I felt that the faculty and residents were hit or miss. Stroke chairman takes the cake for arrogance along the interview trail (I guess this is a given though for neuro-interventionalists). One of the senior residents was much the same. Everyone else was totally laid back. Does Cleveland Clinic have a reputation for being somewhat malignant?

 

[drgirl]

Yeah, at Duke the residents made it a point to tell us that we are being evaluated by them--we couldn't even take our name tags off during dinner even though it was at a restaurant....was kind of odd--they said after each interview session they get together to talk about each candidate...it was harder to relax knowing that. What pissed me off is that the next day, after talking to someone at lunch, they had confused me with another applicant in terms of my school and where I was from--which made me think that they couldn't possibly be keeping everyone straight. I think this was a large part of why I didn't like the Duke residents as much as the UNC ones. I wasn't aware of the formal evaluating by the Sinai people--they were all "oh, ask what you want, nothing gets back to the PD"....I mean, we should definitely try not to act like total sociopaths during dinner (hard i know, hahaha) but why make such a show of telling us to relax, etc? Whatever, i'll be glad when this is over--it's hard trying to be nice for such a long stretch of time

 

[scm]

ha, they didnt tell us that at Duke either(about the dinner/evals). too bad i was unknowingly sitting next to the PD during the "most interesting case conference" and having trouble being, well, interested(or keeping my eyes open) while they fooled around with an achingly slow PACS system...later realized who he was...wow yeah i dunno how they'll evaluate us on the dinner, i just remember thinking about how i had nothing in common with these people and being more interested in talking to you guys/fellow applicants about other places.. damn now im trying to think about all the dinners and how i performed and/or how interested i acted, certainly got worse toward the end..i was so tired..probably too confrontational/matter of fact at the UWashington dinner/interviews.


while we are compiling lists, maybe we should make one for folks next yr, of the places that actually told you the dinner somehow made a difference. heh what about lunch? did they fill out evals after lunch too? jeez.

 

[ptolemy]

sinai-my thoughts on sinai seem to echo most everyone else's, though I did not think the chair was quite as pompous as everyone else. I had good candid conversations with both him and the PD. I had heard rumors that you get pimped at these interviews, and that did not happen to me(wonder what that means ). Also, at the dinner, the residents actually said that they were reviewing us and that they were part of the process. I actually kinda liked this, Im not really one to get nervous about someone evaluating me or change my personality, so it did not really affect me negatively. Also, I think that residents should have a say in the process b/c we will have to work with them and vice versa. The big thing I liked here though, was that the residents seemed very happy.

does anyone else have any thoughts on vanderbilt? anyone else interview there?

 

[scm]

ha, i forgot i interviewed here. i'd heard they had a great neuroscience dept(and they do) and really love Madison, so just applied w/out knowing much(but knowing i'd likely be in Chicago and Michigan for interviews anyway).. shortly after getting there on interview day, i already knew i wouldnt rank it..didnt take notes etc. but in case anyone is interested here's what i remember.

the PD wasnt there the day I interviewed due to some emergency or illness, but the Chair was there, he and everyone there were quite nice and very approachable. its a small program, really nice enviroment, the facilities are quite nice, the VA is right there..only a few of us were interviewing, one FMG, one or two other candidates I wasnt very impressed with couldn't really talk to...they totally reworked their curriculum within the last yr or so, i think had made things into 3 combined inpt/outpt services, i.e. on epilepsy, you had inpts, you saw outpts in the afternoon, read EEGs etc, what this meant to me was simply that they werent very busy on the inpt side..in fact when i looked at their board in some lounge , it looked like they had 3 pts on all 3 services..who knows though, couldve been an odd day/maybe i read it wrong. i dont remember how the rest of the curriculum worked, but they were quite happy with the change, and it seemed to make sense conceptually anyway. i think they had a neuroicu there.there were certainly some facts/statistics i remember being told about the program that impressed me, which i can no longer remember. obviously they have a large area they get pts from..

I got the feeling staff were very interested in the residents/responsive..oh, interpret what you want, but there seemed to be a good number of FMGs there. The didactics i saw were so/so. the biggest thing for me was the interviews, the people who were supposed be subspecialists, in PD, Pain, and so on, only seemed to have recently found themselves in these areas, tinkered around in other things previously and currently, and so on, not to mention the didnt ask me a single thing about my application or myself other than if i had questions(ugh), and how lucky i was to work with various people where I'm at now etc etc. So i didn't feel as though they had very strong people dedicated to various subspecialties..

madison is awesome though, they put me up in an amazing hotel, and i stayed the weekend and hung around, great fun. oh well. i wanted to like it there..

 

[drgirl]

while we are compiling lists, maybe we should make one for folks next yr, of the places that actually told you the dinner somehow made a difference. heh what about lunch? did they fill out evals after lunch too? jeez.

Actually, when we were leaving lunch at Duke, we heard one of the residents whisper to another resident who was also leaving the room, "Do you have anything to say about any of the candidates because we're going to talk about them now".
I definitely agree with scm that during that particular dinner, I had more fun talking to fellow applicants than residents. Maybe I was just tired? Trust me, it wasn't due to the fact that half the residents are IMG's because I had only US Grads at my table during dinner.

 

[crackerjack]

i was really impressed with the facilities at vanderbilt. they obviously have money to spare. the residents have a lot of didactic time and they seem very happy. the computer system kept getting brought up as one of vanderbilts best qualities, and it is really awesome there. one resident demonstrated how, when he is on call, he just sits up in bed, types orders into the computer, and then goes back to sleep. i thought that the faculty were all really nice, especially the program director-- very approachable and friendly. the residents were all really nice too. i thought it was a good sign when they gave a wine/appetizer party after interviews, and a huge number of faculty showed up to talk to applicants. i just personally dont like nashville, too southern for me-- but otherwise, i would definitely rank vanderbilt very high.

 

[scared sh*tless]

Hey everybody! I have been away for a while because I was addicted to this site and my wife made me give it up. It's my fault: I was getting too caught up in the action....

Anyhoo I have really enjoyed reading your opinions about programs, etc... (even Rush Girl! I know it's wrong, but it's so funny! I met this girl too! hahahaha) and I have to say I pretty much agree with everything you all wrote... amazing how uniform the impressions of programs can be.

Anyways, here are the programs I went to and anyone can ask me for more details if it will somehow help you make your final decision...

Tulane: Nice people, small faculty, don't think the didactics are excellent.

NWU: Growing powerhouse. Drill Sergeant Chairman and unsympathetic PD. Impressive facilities. Lots of shuffling around. NWU hospital in awesome part of chicago

Rush: NICEST FACULTY ANYWHERE but their hospital seems a bit disheveled and apparently you have to draw your own blood after 3 PM. Residents were super nice. Big epilepsy program and a lot of research for a 'clinical' program. However, it DOES seem that they are hurting from recent faculty's departure. In contrast to NWU, Chairman is like santa claus. Nices PD's.

Columbia: NOT MALIGNANT! I don't know who started this rumour, but not true. I DO think that they have more of a stick up their ass than most people, but hey, that is the ivy league. They aren't out to nail each other, from what I saw. You have to be willing to be in house call A LOT and also love basic research to make this your #1 place..

NYU: Very nice residents, and a lot of good specialized faculty but they seem to have some problems transfering that clinical knowledge to their residents. Residents don't write notes on some services! What??? Too much of a disconnect between residents and faculty for me. This reinforces some negative things I have heawrd about this place. Too bad, because a great location and nice people. Oh, a crappy interview day too. Too many people jammed in a small room and poor interviews.

UCLA: Residents a tiny bit uptight for the west coast but manageable. Nice facilities. Famous specialists in everything. PD is super nice, chairman is really cool, kind of a pimp really.... I like the schedule: no in house call pgy 3 and 4! ( They suffer a little bit from the 'we are full of ourselves' attitude that permeates the ivy leaguers of the east coast, but what can you do. It goes along with academic notoriety. Seems that super-intelligence gives you incisive intellectual powers to detect everything except that being arrogant is really unpleasant....)

USC: SURPRISE HIT OF THE SEASON. I was not even sure I could make it to this one and ended up being one of my favorites. They are no frills ('dinner' the night before is 'drinks') and the interviews weren't perfect.. (a lot of waiting around) but here is what they have 1) County hospital and tons of really diverse, interesting and grateful patients from all over the world 2) The COOLEST RESIDENTS I think on the interview trail. They were all competent, humble, and professional. I don't know how they avoided getting the one or two nut cases that seem standard to all programs

UCI: Small program, worst interview day (no dinner, no breakfast! No interview with resdients, had 15 mins to talk with the residents, with the faculty milling about. It was like that tv coverage of jonestown befor they drank the koolaid when they were all saying how much they loves it in jonestown).. It's close to the beach, though....

UNC: SECOND SURPRISE HIT. I have nothing to add to SCM's excellent post. It's everything (s?)he said it was. Those residents were genuinely nice people who play in a team, and that program has nothing to be ashamed of in comparing itself to the best ones in the nation. If you can live in Chapel Hill or Durham, I think it's a great choice.

Georgetown: I really wanted to like this program, because I think It's in a great area, but they made it impossible. 20 people to the interview day, two interviews comprising of one disdainful resident and one nice faculty member who had been at Georgetown for 3 days. Sweet. Really glad I flew into Dulles for that.

GOOD LUCK EVERYBODY!!! God this is nerve racking. Scared sh*tless I was, and scared sh*tless I remain!

PEACE

 

[swedcrip]

Hey everybody! I have been away for a while because I was addicted to this site and my wife made me give it up. It's my fault: I was getting too caught up in the action....

Anyhoo I have really enjoyed reading your opinions about programs, etc... (even Rush Girl! I know it's wrong, but it's so funny! I met this girl too! hahahaha) and I have to say I pretty much agree with everything you all wrote... amazing how uniform the impressions of programs can be.

Anyways, here are the programs I went to and anyone can ask me for more details if it will somehow help you make your final decision...

Tulane: Nice people, small faculty, don't think the didactics are excellent.

NWU: Growing powerhouse. Drill Sergeant Chairman and unsympathetic PD. Impressive facilities. Lots of shuffling around. NWU hospital in awesome part of chicago

Rush: NICEST FACULTY ANYWHERE but their hospital seems a bit disheveled and apparently you have to draw your own blood after 3 PM. Residents were super nice. Big epilepsy program and a lot of research for a 'clinical' program. However, it DOES seem that they are hurting from recent faculty's departure. In contrast to NWU, Chairman is like santa claus. Nices PD's.

Columbia: NOT MALIGNANT! I don't know who started this rumour, but not true. I DO think that they have more of a stick up their ass than most people, but hey, that is the ivy league. They aren't out to nail each other, from what I saw. You have to be willing to be in house call A LOT and also love basic research to make this your #1 place..

NYU: Very nice residents, and a lot of good specialized faculty but they seem to have some problems transfering that clinical knowledge to their residents. Residents don't write notes on some services! What??? Too much of a disconnect between residents and faculty for me. This reinforces some negative things I have heawrd about this place. Too bad, because a great location and nice people. Oh, a crappy interview day too. Too many people jammed in a small room and poor interviews.

UCLA: Residents a tiny bit uptight for the west coast but manageable. Nice facilities. Famous specialists in everything. PD is super nice, chairman is really cool, kind of a pimp really.... I like the schedule: no in house call pgy 3 and 4! ( They suffer a little bit from the 'we are full of ourselves' attitude that permeates the ivy leaguers of the east coast, but what can you do. It goes along with academic notoriety. Seems that super-intelligence gives you incisive intellectual powers to detect everything except that being arrogant is really unpleasant....)

USC: SURPRISE HIT OF THE SEASON. I was not even sure I could make it to this one and ended up being one of my favorites. They are no frills ('dinner' the night before is 'drinks') and the interviews weren't perfect.. (a lot of waiting around) but here is what they have 1) County hospital and tons of really diverse, interesting and grateful patients from all over the world 2) The COOLEST RESIDENTS I think on the interview trail. They were all competent, humble, and professional. I don't know how they avoided getting the one or two nut cases that seem standard to all programs

UCI: Small program, worst interview day (no dinner, no breakfast! No interview with resdients, had 15 mins to talk with the residents, with the faculty milling about. It was like that tv coverage of jonestown befor they drank the koolaid when they were all saying how much they loves it in jonestown).. It's close to the beach, though....

UNC: SECOND SURPRISE HIT. I have nothing to add to SCM's excellent post. It's everything (s?)he said it was. Those residents were genuinely nice people who play in a team, and that program has nothing to be ashamed of in comparing itself to the best ones in the nation. If you can live in Chapel Hill or Durham, I think it's a great choice.

Georgetown: I really wanted to like this program, because I think It's in a great area, but they made it impossible. 20 people to the interview day, two interviews comprising of one disdainful resident and one nice faculty member who had been at Georgetown for 3 days. Sweet. Really glad I flew into Dulles for that.

GOOD LUCK EVERYBODY!!! God this is nerve racking. Scared sh*tless I was, and scared sh*tless I remain!

PEACE

I'd mostly agree with you about USC & UCI. But I'd like to get some more input about UCI. USC's hospital seems understaffed and I can't get a prelim year there. The people at USC though seemed to have so much more energy.

Southwestern to me was very similar to USC. No prelim year and no sleep! But otherwise I think the program is improving though it'll probably continue to be majority FMG's (who mostly seemed pretty cool). The residents were very upfront about the workload during the PGY-2 year (on the plus side you can have the medicine intern transport patients to get tests).

I'm not sure I know enough about UCI yet. Their website doesn't seem to mention they have a residency.

I'm having a hard time balancing program quality and location. The places that seemed like good fits have some location issues. The great locations have program issues. I think my #1 has both, but past that everyone gives me a concern regarding "fit" or location.

Please PM me about UC-Irvine if you're willing to share privately only. Thanks.

 

[play274]

Hey! Not only is this is my first post on this forum, but this is also my first day on this site. I heard about it from one of my attendings about a week ago. Although the number of people posting here is limited, from talking to other neurology residents in my program and a few others, I can imagine that at least a good 20-30% of neurologists who are closely associated w/a residency program know about this site (my percentage is probably on the conservative side).

Anyways, I found the concerns and insight on this board to be intriguing as it obviously hits close to home for me. I do have strong interest in becoming associated with teaching/academic neurology (after my upcoming fellowship), and I felt that it may be helpful if I add my '2 cents' - which many of you can disregard behest to the winds. My insight may have bias and deal w/my personal experience, and I hope that any of my future responses won't "step on anyone's toes."

Best of luck to all of you on the 2005 match. I sincerely hope that everything turns out well for you all!

-274

 

[gbv]

just wanted to say that I've really enjoyed reading your posts Play. lotsa insight (like everyone else here of course). keep posting!

 

[csf]

Dear Stroke,

I saw a message of yours from last year on the StudentDoctor forum & was just wondering what your neuro interview with BU was like - mine is in 2 days & its my first, so I'm deadly nervous - do they ask you to examine patients or come up with differentials or interpret MRIs or anyhting on grand rounds???

I'd appreciate it if you could set me straight on this matter - thanks!!!

 

[AznTrojan]

CSF..

i interviewed at BU last year... it's a chill interview.. very nice dinner the night before.. there were 9 of us total.. and we spent over a grand on dinner.. it's nice to have surf and turf and someone else's coin

only place that pimped was the university of chicago.. serves them right to only match 1 of their spots..

 

[refmem]

I enjoy reading all of your posts. If you want a little advice from someone who matched at his top ranked neurology program ( I will not say where)....

1.Enjoy the pre-interview dinner. This is your chance to see how the residents get along with one another, and your chance to see our true personalities. TO be honest, most of us are there for free drinks and dinner, just like you. We are enjoying ourselves, so should you.

2. Despite what has been said, the dinners dont weigh much on your application. At least at my program, we consider the dinner an opportunity for you to ask us questions you may be too intimidated to ask the attendings the following day. Asking the standard questions like " What are the strengths and weaknesses of your program" will get you the standard reply. Asking your honest questions " Would you apply here again? How many times have you felt like quiting? Why did you lose that resident 2 years ago?" lets us know you're are very interested in our program, and you will stand out.

3. At any program, the resident's comments may help or hurt, but I would be surprised if any resident has enough input to give thumbs up or down. We are looking for people that we can see ourselves getting along with for the next few years. We are looking for people we can trust when they call us in the middle of the night to present a consult or admission. We will leave the grades, scores, publications up to the bean counting PD and Chairs.

4. The best question I asked during my interview season was to the respective chairs at my top 2 ranked programs. "Describe to me your perfect applicant". I went to the program that answered that question with personality traits of their ideal candidate. I second ranked the program that recited cut-offs to scores, grades, and publications. This one question determined my future. Your "one question" may be something different, but if you dont ask then you are making an uninformed decision.

5. Finally, don't get overly concerned with grades and scores. At my program, I interviewed with 3 other candidates with much better board scores and many publications. Three of us went to big name programs, and the fourth ended up scrambling because of a bad personality. I later found out the other 2 candidates weren't ranked very high at my program for similar reasons. I have seen people with boards of 250+, AOA, etc go unranked at my program because attendings felt that person would be hard to get along with. Just something to think about.

I'll be glad to post again if anyone has questions. I hope those interested in my program will enjoy their visit with us, and please order the steak and a wine/beer etc if you want it. Dont forget dessert.

-------------------------------------------------------
anyone who brings a reflex hammer to dinner will NOT be ranked.

 

[play274]

CSF..
only place that pimped was the university of chicago.. serves them right to only match 1 of their spots..

Disclaimer: I did not go to the Univ of Chicago for residency (or anything) nor do I have any ties to this program.

However, the impression that I get from attendings in the upper-tier programs on the East Coast is that it is a very strong program. As someone who loves big cities, they were on my radar when I interviewed (years ago); although I had mixed feelings about my interview at their program, I do know that their graduating residents are very competitive for top-level fellowships and positions (as compared to a wide number of other programs). I've met a couple of them at meetings over the years, and they appear to be happy with their experience.

My two cents: If they only matched one of their spots last year, it could mean that the rank a low number of people that they interview or interview very few candidates; thus, it may indicate that one should try a touch harder to get along on the interview. Whatever the case, they did not pimp during the year that I interviewed, so - hopefully - they will cease to continue this practice; IMO, the knowledge of a couple good facts during a pressured interview setting is not very telling of the quality of a future neurologist.

-274

 

[gluon]

Hi Everybody,

Congrats on matching this year! I was hoping we could revive this old thread. If you have any interview input from this years match process or your impression of programs this year please update all of us newbies to be

thanks in advance,

gluon

 

[Methyldopa]

Hi Everybody,

Congrats on matching this year! I was hoping we could revive this old thread. If you have any interview input from this years match process or your impression of programs this year please update all of us newbies to be

thanks in advance,

gluon

There is a similar thread from this year:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=232137

 

[brainstorm]

There is a similar thread from this year:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=232137

gluon,

i will try to keep adding program impressions soon on the thread methyldopa mentioned above since it is the one from this year...hopefully now that we have more time post-match more people will contribute (as i know it really helped to read over last year's posts).

have to go to clinic now!
brainstorm

 

[arikansas]