plight in Sudan

[lumanyika]

So I keep hearing how the Sudanese Arabs are commiting massacres on the southern Sudanese Africans and the UN's calling (admonishing?) to the "sudanese Government" to put a check on these issues. do people know which Sudanese Government the UN is reffering to? if we are thinking Khartoum(sp), then the UN is essentially "chewing the cud" if you will. simply because the Khartoum-based "Sudanese Government" is made up almost entirely of Sudanese Arabs!!

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[emt30119]

The Muslim Sudan Government based in Khartoum has declaired a Jihad against the mostly christian south and Nuba mountain region. The Islamic leader Omar Hassan al-Turabi has stated "anyone who opposes Islam has no future." Government planes continue to bomb southern schools and churches. When it is time for harvest, the government sends the army to the south and chases the villagers into the mountains, away from thier crops. Millions have been killed or displaced. It is a major problem that needs addressed.

 

[kaos]

So I keep hearing how the Sudanese Arabs are commiting massacres on the southern Sudanese Africans and the UN's calling (admonishing?) to the "sudanese Government" to put a check on these issues. do people know which Sudanese Government the UN is reffering to? if we are thinking Khartoum(sp), then the UN is essentially "chewing the cud" if you will. simply because the Khartoum-based "Sudanese Government" is made up almost entirely of Sudanese Arabs!!

I don't think I understand what's going on there. I hear a lot of media coverage portraying this as an Arabs vs blacks thing, that can't be what it is because the government is nearly entirely black. Besides, a lot of what's happening is vs the West as opposed to the South now, especially w/ the treaty signed only a few weeks ago, and the West is a Muslim population. It is wholly confusing to me.

 

[lumanyika]

I don't think I understand what's going on there. I hear a lot of media coverage portraying this as an Arabs vs blacks thing, that can't be what it is because the government is nearly entirely black. Besides, a lot of what's happening is vs the West as opposed to the South now, especially w/ the treaty signed only a few weeks ago, and the West is a Muslim population. It is wholly confusing to me.

kaos, i understand your confusion. yes the war is basically an Arab (northern Sudan) offensive against the black south. what the Khartoum government is trying to do is introduce Sharia (Islamic Law) to the mainly animist, christian south by any cost. The sudanese government might be percieved as nearly entirely black, but the ancient history of this region (as well as Egypt and Ethiopia) needs to well exposed in order to fully understand this war. approximately 1000 years ago present day Sudan, southern Egypt was made up of nothng but black Africans. what has happened is a result of intermarriages that occured with the black locals after the infamous Jihads (in my oppinion massacres) by ruthless persian horsemen in and arround the aforementioned circa that devastated most of north Africa. ever since, the black population has been on the run (have you looked into the migratory patterns of ancient Africa? if not, i suggest reading the book "The Destruction of Black Civilization--Issues of a Race" by Dr. Chancellor Williams).
the Persian horsemen basically followed Alexander the Great's panacea of wiping out the males in a given society (if they chose anything other than Islam), enslaving most of the women and baring mullato offspring who carried on the hatred and massacres that their forefathers brought. The goal of the Arab/persian was to keep going southward but since they were not familliar with the central African geography (rainforest mostly), they tended to linger in the desert region where the environment was similar to their respective origins and the trade was booming to boot. that's why most of contemporary North African peoples have distintive Eurasian features (do you think that's the way it was 3000 or so years ago?).
what's happening in the Western region (mainly in Darfur), is that the refugees from the south go West into Darfur and subsequently into Chad where the reugee camps are located. it has already been documented by the Red Cross, UN, and Medicines sans Frontiers that the area is in a humanitarian crisis. that government sponsored militia (Janjuwit(sp)) have already attacked the refugee camps in Chad.

My math Teacher back home in Kenya always used to tell us that the only thing that stops the war in Sudan is rain.

 

[tutankh]

This is not the place for politics

 

[flighterdoc]

So I keep hearing how the Sudanese Arabs are commiting massacres on the southern Sudanese Africans and the UN's calling (admonishing?) to the "sudanese Government" to put a check on these issues. do people know which Sudanese Government the UN is reffering to? if we are thinking Khartoum(sp), then the UN is essentially "chewing the cud" if you will. simply because the Khartoum-based "Sudanese Government" is made up almost entirely of Sudanese Arabs!!

I've posted several times on the UN's lack of concern about the genocide in southern Sudan - of course, it's by muslims against christians, so that must make it OK.

Whatever credibility the UN might have had was lost when Sudan became a member of the UN human rights committee.

 

[lumanyika]

This is not the place for politics

this isn't about politics my friend. it's discourse involving OUR people. we aren't advocating anything, but stating simple, atrocious fact(s).

 

[cooldreams]

A man-loving Atheist is a thousand times better human than a theist who hates his fellow beings on the grounds of religious bigotry.--Anwar Shaikh

I disagree. Explanation is simple. Choices and motives.

Consider why people do what they do. Retain this reference and frame it to particular situations such as helping someone across the street, or perhaps taking a class, or any number of things that people do. the basis for why we do things is far greater than what we do or do not do.

the atheist manlover loves men for his own personal reasons/satisfaction. the theist hates men because that is what he (thinks) is told to do by God on the grounds of religious bigotry.

from here you can further go on to argue the sanity of each person with regards to their stance, but for the pure and simple reason that one has chose to act one way for his own desires and the other because of another's command, then the theist has demonstrated to be a "better human". though even to that end i would still disagree because i do not consider some people to be "better" than others.

 

[PrinceLazar]

This is not the place for politics

As health professionals, I think it is important to be involved in issues that affet lives of millions of people and not denote classic "this is not about politics" ignorance statements..

 

[lumanyika]

A man-loving Atheist is a thousand times better human than a theist who hates his fellow beings on the grounds of religious bigotry.--Anwar Shaikh

I disagree. Explanation is simple. Choices and motives.

Consider why people do what they do. Retain this reference and frame it to particular situations such as helping someone across the street, or perhaps taking a class, or any number of things that people do. the basis for why we do things is far greater than what we do or do not do.

the atheist manlover loves men for his own personal reasons/satisfaction. the theist hates men because that is what he (thinks) is told to do by God on the grounds of religious bigotry.

from here you can further go on to argue the sanity of each person with regards to their stance, but for the pure and simple reason that one has chose to act one way for his own desires and the other because of another's command, then the theist has demonstrated to be a "better human". though even to that end i would still disagree because i do not consider some people to be "better" than others.

your word-play is eloquent, and well stated. however, say one's actions are his/her prayers. this is a philosophy followed by some African religious sects. in this regard, are the actions taken under command from a deity or is it from fiat? and how do you know which is which?. we could debate this for ever, but this is not the forum for this particular discussion. i choose to politely diagree with you.

 

[cooldreams]

your word-play is eloquent, and well stated. however, say one's actions are his/her prayers. this is a philosophy followed by some African religious sects. in this regard, are the actions taken under command from a deity or is it from fiat? and how do you know which is which?. we could debate this for ever, but this is not the forum for this particular discussion. i choose to politely diagree with you.

you are examining a third possibility where one would attempt to create the world around them to justify their desires. i see this as the worse of the (now) three stated possibilities because herein the person is not only acting selfishly but also is also manipulating to justify their desires....

if you do not wish to further discuss this i will not, but i would just like to voice that in Christianity, just because you pray does not mean what you want will come to pass. rather it must be of God's will, and truely you are praying that God's will be done rather than our own shortsighted will.

 

[Friday]

Here's a few facts to keep in mind when discussing this conflict:

1. While it is often portrayed as simply muslim vs christian/animist, there is more to that. Muslim groups are also being attacked by 'government backed militias'. If you carefully read about whats going on in Darfur, which is causing the most recent outcry, you'll find that a majority of those being displaced to Chad are black muslims.

2. You can't really discuss whether the government is mostly only black or arab because people can be both, believe it or not. There are many people, both in the middle east, maghreb and elsewhere, who are dark skinned and call themselves arab. A look at pictures of the prominent Sudanese leaders (Tarabi et al) will show you this.

3. There are really about 3 different conflicts, or fronts if you will. The longest lasting and most well known one is the one in Southern Sudan pitting the government directly against the SPLA. Other conflicts like the one in Darfur to the West are a bit more recent and are claimed to be 'indirect'.

Just thought those who didn't know this should....

 

[kaos]

Here's a few facts to keep in mind when discussing this conflict:

1. While it is often portrayed as simply muslim vs christian/animist, there is more to that. Muslim groups are also being attacked by 'government backed militias'. If you carefully read about whats going on in Darfur, which is causing the most recent outcry, you'll find that a majority of those being displaced to Chad are black muslims.

2. You can't really discuss whether the government is mostly only black or arab because people can be both, believe it or not. There are many people, both in the middle east, maghreb and elsewhere, who are dark skinned and call themselves arab. A look at pictures of the prominent Sudanese leaders (Tarabi et al) will show you this.

3. There are really about 3 different conflicts, or fronts if you will. The longest lasting and most well known one is the one in Southern Sudan pitting the government directly against the SPLA. Other conflicts like the one in Darfur to the West are a bit more recent and are claimed to be 'indirect'.

That's what my understanding of the situation was. But that doesn't explain how the media's portraying it. Anyway, I can't imagine what I'd do to improve the situation or how to even begin to deal with the health issues of all those refugees.

 

[flighterdoc]

http://www.itv.com/news/2100148.html