Please take a gander at my game plan for clinical experience, if you don't mind. Questions about research and clinical experience.

[tracylawrenceEnthusiast97]

Howdy! My sophomore year of undergrad is about to start and I'm getting started on my clinical experience. This semester, I am in a hospital system volunteer program based in the city of my university. The program has a ton of different volunteer jobs available, so you can choose a different one each semester. My job this semester is working with occupational therapy patients in a rural hospital in the hospital system. Each semester I can work at least one 4 hour shift weekly for a total of over 50 hours per semester. I plan on doing this for 4 semesters for 200-225 patient contact hours during college semesters before my application.

For shadowing, I'd like to do 50 to 75 hours scattered in the winter and summer breaks between now and applying after junior year.

As far as non-clinical hours go, my goal is 200 to 250 hours total. At least 160 of these will be from a student org I am in where we build mobile medical clinics for underserved communities, and the rest will probably be with an urban revitalization project serving meals to a low-income neighborhood near my home.

My main question is about the summer between my sophomore and junior year. I'm leaning towards using this time for a lot more clinical experience, like patient transport in a hospital or clinic work. There is a huge nonprofit hospital in my hometown where I could make a difference and see a lot. This way, I can also get some summer shadowing and nonclinical volunteering done. However, I've also seen that research is important to have, so should I do a summer research project instead? I am not interested in bench work, but my university usually offers some public health (my major) research projects that I could participate in over the summer. These sound really interesting to me, but I don't know if I would enjoy it as much as getting more experience in clinical work and rounding out my other ECs. Will not having significant research be too damaging to an application to TX state schools, or am I good to do more clinical work over the summer?

Any input on my question or overall clinical experience game plan is appreciated! For context, I am planning to apply to all Texas state schools when I get to the app. Thanks for the help!

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[TragicalDrFaust]

Your plan sounds fine as far as getting clinical hours. I would aim to have research - nearly all other applicants will. I would also start thinking about where your interests lie. Check all the boxes but be thinking about how each activity could help you answer the question “why do you want to go into medicine?” and “what makes you a good candidate?” on an application. Are there things you can do that can distinguish your narrative from your peers?

 

[tracylawrenceEnthusiast97]

Your plan sounds fine as far as getting clinical hours. I would aim to have research - nearly all other applicants will. I would also start thinking about where your interests lie. Check all the boxes but be thinking about how each activity could help you answer the question “why do you want to go into medicine?” and “what makes you a good candidate?” on an application. Are there things you can do that can distinguish your narrative from your peers?

Hey, thank you for the input! I'm mainly into medicine because I like the responsibility and trust that comes with the physician-patient relationship, kind of interested in specialties where you can have the same patients for a long time (ie family medicine, pm&r, some IMs, etc) and try to improve their lives. Trying to choose activities related to longer-term patient care.

I have also considered doing hospice volunteer work junior year. I think this would test my ability to deal with losing patients under my care in the future, which given my motives may be a good idea to test. Do you think hospice volunteering would be more beneficial?

My concern is that while all these are great ways to work on patient skills, they are not really environments with many physicians around. This is why I thought picking up a role at a hospital or clinic over the summer would be better than doing a research program. Do you think that's a problem or is it ok as long as I also shadow?

Thanks again for your help!

 

[deleted1017120]

From my experience, the general rule is that clinical experience trumps research experience.

In other words, if you need to pick between getting clinical experience or research experience, you get the clinical experience. At the end of the day, you're trying to become a physician, whose core role is taking care of patients. Clinical experience is far more important to understanding what a physician does than research experience (this obviously doesn't apply if you're trying to do MD/PhD). My advice would also be to specifically get paid clinical experience. Some people may be able to argue that sufficient clinical volunteering is enough, but volunteering in a healthcare setting doesn't give you any insight into what it actually means to work within a healthcare system; paid employment gives you important experience in holding down a job, understanding what the day-to-day grind of employment can be like, the economic/political challenges of working in a healthcare system (e.g. administration problems, union issues, wage issues, interaction between different departments), etc. Paid clinical experience will also let you get more involved in both direct patient care and the behind-the-scenes logistical side of healthcare than volunteering ever will.

That said, you should still make every attempt to get both clinical and research experience due to a physician's role in the scientific community and the potential to be involved in research in your career. Despite this, I will say that research can be a bit overrated depending on the school. Many schools really do want it, but I've been directly told in feedback by a couple schools that, while it looks nice, they don't actually care that much about research. It largely depends on the school's mission and focus, and if you want to go to a school that focuses on something like primary care (which you expressed interest in), then they will absolutely want to see a strong background in clinical experience, even if it is at the expense of research. While not getting research experience would have its own risks (e.g. it would limit which types of schools you could competitively apply to), if you wanted to really craft your application towards primary care-focused schools, going all-in on the clinical experience isn't some kind of application deathwish like some might try to sell it as.

 

[tracylawrenceEnthusiast97]

From my experience, the general rule is that clinical experience trumps research experience.

In other words, if you need to pick between getting clinical experience or research experience, you get the clinical experience. At the end of the day, you're trying to become a physician, whose core role is taking care of patients. Clinical experience is far more important to understanding what a physician does than research experience (this obviously doesn't apply if you're trying to do MD/PhD). My advice would also be to specifically get paid clinical experience. Some people may be able to argue that sufficient clinical volunteering is enough, but volunteering in a healthcare setting doesn't give you any insight into what it actually means to work within a healthcare system; paid employment gives you important experience in holding down a job, understanding what the day-to-day grind of employment can be like, the economic/political challenges of working in a healthcare system (e.g. administration problems, union issues, wage issues, interaction between different departments), etc. Paid clinical experience will also let you get more involved in both direct patient care and the behind-the-scenes logistical side of healthcare than volunteering ever will.

That said, you should make every attempt to get both clinical and research experience due to a physician's role in the scientific community and the potential to be involved in research in your career. Despite this, I will say that research can be a bit overrated depending on the school. Many schools really do want it, but I've been directly told in feedback by a couple schools that, while it looks nice, they don't actually care that much about research. It largely depends on the school's mission and focus, and if you want to go to a school that focuses on something like primary care (which you expressed interest in), then they will absolutely want to see a strong background in clinical experience, even if it is at the expense of research. While not getting research experience would have its own risks (e.g. it would limit which types of schools you could competitively apply to), if you wanted to really craft your application towards primary care-focused schools, going all-in on the clinical experience isn't some kind of applicationd deathwish like some might try to sell it as.

Thanks for the tips! Yeah I agree that paid experience is probably the move over volunteering in the incoming summer for clinical experience(my parents want me to get a job anyway). I am leaning towards using the summer for clinical experience then.

This doesn't mean I absolutely can't do research I guess, it would be nice to not limit my options of schools to apply to. I could do research in the school year too, but admittedly it would not be one of these big 1000 hr research positions that people on this website grab.
Do you think a public health-related project (social work type research) would be ok to apply with for the research category? I could grab a traditional lab position but this would be better as the hours would be more flexible and the project would align with my interests in health disparities.

Appreciate the help!

 

[deleted1017120]

Thanks for the tips! Yeah I agree that paid experience is probably the move over volunteering in the incoming summer for clinical experience(my parents want me to get a job anyway). I am leaning towards using the summer for clinical experience then.

This doesn't mean I absolutely can't do research I guess, it would be nice to not limit my options of schools to apply to. I could do research in the school year too, but admittedly it would not be one of these big 1000 hr research positions that people on this website grab.
Do you think a public health-related project (social work type research) would be ok to apply with for the research category? I could grab a traditional lab position but this would be better as the hours would be more flexible and the project would align with my interests in health disparities.

Appreciate the help!

A lot of MD research isn't benchwork, but is actually clinical or population research. Knowing this, I can't imagine that schools want only laboratory research experience (unless that's specifically what their program is geared towards).

I also don't think you should worry about getting a massive amount of hours. Year-round undergraduate research is actually a great experience; even though you don't tally up an incredible amount of hours, you get a lot more long-term exposure to the world of research and can therefore see a lot more things. Depending on your lab, it will also get you a better chance of getting your name on a paper. Finally, huge numbers of hours just aren't necessary. Most of these "check boxes" just need a minimum amount of hours; the big thing you should be able to do is turn hours into meaningful experiences and discussion. If you have 1000 research hours but can't display an in-depth understanding of what the process of research actually entails, then your hours are meaningless and ADCOMS can sniff this stuff out easily. Conversely, if you only have 250 hours but you actually put the work in and got a lot out of it, that should go a long way for most programs (and your future career).

 

[tracylawrenceEnthusiast97]

A lot of MD research isn't benchwork, but is actually clinical or population research. Knowing this, I can't imagine that schools want only laboratory research experience (unless that's specifically what their program is geared towards).

I also don't think you should worry about getting a massive amount of hours. Year-round undergraduate research is actually a great experience; even though you don't tally up an incredible amount of hours, you get a lot more long-term exposure to the world of research and can therefore see a lot more things. Depending on your lab, it will also get you a better chance of getting your name on a paper. Finally, huge numbers of hours just aren't necessary. Most of these "check boxes" just need a minimum amount of hours; the big thing you should be able to do is turn hours into meaningful experiences and discussion. If you have 1000 research hours but can't display an in-depth understanding of what the process of research actually entails, then your hours are meaningless and ADCOMS can sniff this stuff out easily. Conversely, if you only have 250 hours but you actually put the work in and got a lot out of it, that should go a long way for most programs (and your future career).

Cool, I will try to lock down a position in public health research at my university then. Thanks again for the input!

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

100-150 hrs of clinical and non-clinical hours and around 50 hours of shadowing are sufficient if you can articulate well about those experiences. Having some meaningful research experience will help you with top tier schools.

 

[tracylawrenceEnthusiast97]

100-150 hrs of clinical and non-clinical hours and around 50 hours of shadowing are sufficient if you can articulate well about those experiences. Having some meaningful research experience will help you with top tier schools.

Good to hear! I will try to nail down a research project I am interested in either this year or next. Thanks for the response!

 

[TragicalDrFaust]

Hey, thank you for the input! I'm mainly into medicine because I like the responsibility and trust that comes with the physician-patient relationship, kind of interested in specialties where you can have the same patients for a long time (ie family medicine, pm&r, some IMs, etc) and try to improve their lives. Trying to choose activities related to longer-term patient care.

I have also considered doing hospice volunteer work junior year. I think this would test my ability to deal with losing patients under my care in the future, which given my motives may be a good idea to test. Do you think hospice volunteering would be more beneficial?

My concern is that while all these are great ways to work on patient skills, they are not really environments with many physicians around. This is why I thought picking up a role at a hospital or clinic over the summer would be better than doing a research program. Do you think that's a problem or is it ok as long as I also shadow?

Thanks again for your help!

More beneficial than what? Hospice volunteering would help you demonstrate maturity and composure in difficult situations so if you have that opportunity, I would pursue it.

Shadowing should be sufficient for proximity to a physician. I believe adcoms want to see you understand what a day in the life of a physician is. You can learn that over a couple weeks rather than taking up a whole summer. You can also do lots of things at once during the summer. The summer I decided I wanted to go to medical school, I worked, took classes, volunteered and did research. I'm a DO student so not exactly a superstar. You might have to pack more activities in if you want to apply on a tight time line.

I also encourage you to have a plan, like you're currently developing, but continue to re-evaluate and tweak. What your application needs will depend on what your grades and MCAT end up looking like, for example, or if you decide you want to go to a service-oriented school or a research-oriented school.

 

[tracylawrenceEnthusiast97]

More beneficial than what? Hospice volunteering would help you demonstrate maturity and composure in difficult situations so if you have that opportunity, I would pursue it.

Shadowing should be sufficient for proximity to a physician. I believe adcoms want to see you understand what a day in the life of a physician is. You can learn that over a couple weeks rather than taking up a whole summer. You can also do lots of things at once during the summer. The summer I decided I wanted to go to medical school, I worked, took classes, volunteered and did research. I'm a DO student so not exactly a superstar. You might have to pack more activities in if you want to apply on a tight time line.

I also encourage you to have a plan, like you're currently developing, but continue to re-evaluate and tweak. What your application needs will depend on what your grades and MCAT end up looking like, for example, or if you decide you want to go to a service-oriented school or a research-oriented school.

Ok cool, I will keep all of that in mind. Thank you for your help!