Pilot Physician Question

[flyingfortwo]

Hey team!

I have an incredible opportunity to become a Pilot Physician in the Air Force. But what that means is, after Med School, I would do my 1 year internship and then go back to the jet practicing basically as a part-time doc, part-time pilot. I think that just sounds amazing. My one hesitation, however, is-- how difficult is it to gain a residency spot later in one's career? It's not like I wouldn't have done residency for any 'bad' reason... Thoughts?

Thank you!

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[DrMetal]

Hey team!

I have an incredible opportunity to become a Pilot Physician in the Air Force. But what that means is, after Med School, I would do my 1 year internship and then go back to the jet practicing basically as a part-time doc, part-time pilot. I think that just sounds amazing. My one hesitation, however, is-- how difficult is it to gain a residency spot later in one's career? It's not like I wouldn't have done residency for any 'bad' reason... Thoughts?

Thank you!

Difficult. If not logistically, then from a mental standpoint.

Pick a career path, line warfighting jet pilot, or physician. No, you can't do both well at the same time. No sure why the AF would attempt such a thing. It's really unnecessary.

 

[flyingfortwo]

Difficult. If not logistically, then from a mental standpoint.

Pick a career path, line warfighting jet pilot, or physician. No, you can't do both well at the same time. No sure why the AF would attempt such a thing. It's really unnecessary.

It's actually a really cool career path. The Air Force has aligned the two so that your Aerospace Medicine docs continue to get that real-world experience. It's more important for single-seat jets; and a doc can't go up alone in a single-seat obviously. Thankfully, THIS is a career path I am interested in; there is no requirement for "choosing one" when it already is one. But thank you for your concern.

 

[DrMetal]

It's actually a really cool career path.

No it's not. This is malarkey. This is the AF medical corps trying to "puff out its chest", trying to play line community, when it's not. (it's a common inferiority complex seen in the medical corps . . .when the physician wants to be a warfighter).

Do you think the aviation community has some dearth of pilots, so much so that it needs to ask physicians to become jet pilots? or even co-pilots? Of course not. You know what the aviation community wants? It wants pilots and physicians, not mixed. Everyone stay in your lane.

Jet pilot and physician: you couldn't me more mutually exclusive. Pick a career path and pursue it, but not both.

(if such orthogonality is really possible, than I want to be physician/touring-heavymetal-guitarist).

 

[HighPriest]

Someone in the Air Force with little to no medical experience (or maybe too much military medical experience which is usually the same thing) has decided that this sounds high speed, so they’re doing it. That’s the long and short of it. I gotta agree with Dr. M here, you can do both, but you can’t do both well. And I say that because it’s true for essentially any operational billet a doc can get rammed in to.

 

[HighPriest]

No it's not. This is malarkey. This is the AF medical corps trying to "puff out its chest", trying to play line community, when it's not. (it's a common inferiority complex seen in the medical corps . . .when the physician wants to be a warfighter).

Do you think the aviation community has some dearth of pilots, so much so that it needs to ask physicians to become jet pilots? or even co-pilots? Of course not. You know what the aviation community wants? It wants pilots and physicians, not mixed. Everyone stay in your lane.

Jet pilot and physician: you couldn't me more mutually exclusive. Pick a career path and pursue it, but not both.

(if such orthogonality is really possible, than I want to be physician/touring-heavymetal-guitarist).

I don’t know if you can be a physician/metal guitarist, but Brian May was an astrophysicist/guitarist. He did ok.
Roger Taylor went to dental school but gave it up to play drums, so I don’t think you can be a drummer/physician.

 

[flyingfortwo]

No it's not. This is malarkey. This is the AF medical corps trying to "puff out its chest", trying to play line community, when it's not. (it's a common inferiority complex seen in the medical corps . . .when the physician wants to be a warfighter).

Do you think the aviation community has some dearth of pilots, so much so that it needs to ask physicians to become jet pilots? or even co-pilots? Of course not. You know what the aviation community wants? It wants pilots and physicians, not mixed. Everyone stay in your lane.

Jet pilot and physician: you couldn't me more mutually exclusive. Pick a career path and pursue it, but not both.

(if such orthogonality is really possible, than I want to be physician/touring-heavymetal-guitarist).

You seem to have a lot of operational experience flying jets like me, working closely with flight docs and test piloting. I appreciate your opinion, but that's just it: an opinion of someone clearly not in the community. It IS a career path, and it didn't hurt to ask the question about post-mil life. Again, thank you for your kindness and guidance! Really, I hope you have a great day, bro.

 

[MillertimeUSNA]

As a prior pilot (13 years USN, 2000+ hrs as PIC) and now MS4 I can only speak from my own experience that I would not want to either fly with or practice medicine with someone whose feet are in both doors.

I don’t even fly recreationally, it is too serious a task IMO to not dedicate yourself fully towards. From your message it sounds like you may not have started medical school yet, though maybe you have. After completing your training you may have a different perspective about how ‘awesome’ it would be to have 2 jobs that both rely on you to keep people alive.

Regarding residency selection, no idea, probably the same as any other person who served as a GMO, but that path is still somewhat common in the Navy.

 

[HighPriest]

This is what I always love about the milmed forum. People asking for advice, but only if it’s the advice they want to hear. Good luck!

 

[HighPriest]

As a prior pilot (13 years USN, 2000+ hrs as PIC) and now MS4 I can only speak from my own experience that I would not want to either fly with or practice medicine with someone whose feet are in both doors.

I don’t even fly recreationally, it is too serious a task IMO to not dedicate yourself fully towards. From your message it sounds like you may not have started medical school yet, though maybe you have. After completing your training you may have a different perspective about how ‘awesome’ it would be to have 2 jobs that both rely on you to keep people alive.

Regarding residency selection, no idea, probably the same as any other person who served as a GMO, but that path is still somewhat common in the Navy.

This is a sound message. You should listen to it. Or ignore it because it isn’t what you want to hear. Either way.

 

[ProwlerturnGas]

Meh, I say go for it. You are clearly motivated. Just know that both are demanding career fields that require you stay up to date, which I imagine would be very challenging. You will be taking a chance later for a residency spot without maybe some extra hoops or training. You’ll just have to take that chance.

 

[DrMetal]

I don’t know if you can be a physician/metal guitarist, but Brian May was an astrophysicist/guitarist. He did ok.
Roger Taylor went to dental school but gave it up to play drums, so I don’t think you can be a drummer/physician.

Brian May is awesome. Great tone. It would be hard to tour, so I have my own mini-recording studio at home, try to do the YouTube TikTok thing, but even that requires a lot of time nowadays.

You seem to have a lot of operational experience flying jets like me, working closely with flight docs and test piloting. I appreciate your opinion, but that's just it: an opinion of someone clearly not in the community. It IS a career path, and it didn't hurt to ask the question about post-mil life. Again, thank you for your kindness and guidance! Really, I hope you have a great day, bro.

I have no such experience, but I've been in the military (and medicine) long enough to know when something doesn't make sense.

You started this thread with a concern about the difficulty in gaining a residency spot. That's a good question, and that you even formulated that question demonstrates that you have a concern about this "physician-pilot" program, that something doesn't makes sense. Guess what, your hunch is right! It doesn't make sense, it would be difficult, so don't do both. Either be a an active duty pilot or a doctor.

 

[flyingfortwo]

This is a sound message. You should listen to it. Or ignore it because it isn’t what you want to hear. Either way.

This individual actually answered my question instead of quibbling; so I greatly appreciate it! Thanks!

 

[flyingfortwo]

Meh, I say go for it. You are clearly motivated. Just know that both are demanding career fields that require you stay up to date, which I imagine would be very challenging. You will be taking a chance later for a residency spot without maybe some extra hoops or training. You’ll just have to take that chance.

Thank you for your input as well! Truth is, I require 5 flights per month to maintain flying currency. That's the easy part since the military expects pilots to take on other duties-- and your piloting duty really becomes your "additional duty" despite it being your primary AFSC. The biggest challenge that I'm gathering would be maintaining physician "currency" if I am flying 1 day out of 5 days every week. Just something to consider. Thank you so much!

 

[Apollyon]

I don’t know if you can be a physician/metal guitarist, but Brian May was an astrophysicist/guitarist. He did ok.
Roger Taylor went to dental school but gave it up to play drums, so I don’t think you can be a drummer/physician.

Whereas James Lilja was the first drummer for The Offspring, but bailed on them to go to med school, and is now a gyn onc.

That's not to mention Dexter Holland got his PhD in molecular biology in 2017.

 

[the_world_has_gone_mad]

So not sure if this perspective could be of any help.

Think the two questions you have to answer for yourself are:

1. What specialty would you want to practice in "later in life"?
2. What kind of 'worst case scenario' is acceptable to you?

ad 1. If your current goal in life is to do what you describe above and then become a neurosurgeon / orthopedic doctor / ophthalmologist etc. later in life (guess around age 45?) then this might just not be realistic.... If you are OK with becoming a "boring" internist / hospitalist / family practice physician then (assuming that things do not change drastically in the future) this should not be a big deal to get into a residency as a 'non-traditional' applicant at that point.

ad 2. For the 'worst case scenario' - Yes being a resident again at age 45 will likely feel painful at times and you might have to do it in an 'undesirable' location or program, as more 'traditional' programs might not be as impressed by your (at that time) quite impressive [but still non-traditional] career choices up to that point. So for that it is perhaps good to ask yourself now if your 45 year-old self would be OK with that or not... you would definitely still be able to become a good physician as a 'second career' at age 45...

 

[HighPriest]

This individual actually answered my question instead of quibbling; so I greatly appreciate it! Thanks!

Turns out you get the responses you deserve! And all is right in the forum. Hard to argue that warning someone they’re going to be a bad doctor is quibbling, but hey - you know better than anyone what makes a good physician. So don’t worry about it.

 

[Barrel Proof]

I would advise against it as well. Personally, I think the aviation community would see you as not a real pilot. And the medical community would see you as not a real doctor. Not sure what it might mean for you for future residency goals. Certainly not a good idea if you are hoping to be a surgeon, imo.

 

[DeadCactus]

Strong work. Alienated half the forum in your first 2 posts and then doubled down. I can't tell if you're trolling, a paid ad, or really that unable to tolerate the slightest resistance to something you've already decided you want to do.

 

[orbitsurgMD]

There is an ophthalmologist in one of my national associations who is a commercial pilot. There is an anesthesiologist at my hospital who is a commercial pilot. It is doable as a civilian, based on my small sample. How easy it is to maintain qualifications or to gain a type qualification mid- career, I have no idea (but wonder).

 

[eagledriver]

The opportunities presented for those that actually pursue the Pilot Physician Program are incredible. You won't find that sort of career anywhere else, and if you're really interested in doing it, I agree with Prowler - go for it.
But go for it with clear eyes. You will not be practicing medicine in any capacity that allows for a robust clinical experience, and the skills you learn in medical school/one year of residency will deteriorate very quickly. Talk to some former flight docs that have gone back to residency - they almost all have a tough go at it. If you pursue the PPP, it's likely that you'll have a several year (3-5+) gap between that one intern year and the next opportunity to restart a medical career.
It's certainly possible to go back to residency after a hiatus like that, but it's just exceedingly unlikely that you will. One, your skills and knowledge will likely have deteriorated to the point where you won't feel comfortable diving into another intern year. Two, there's a significant chance that your life circumstances several years down the road will make starting from scratch in a residency extremely unpalatable.
When then time came for me to pick a path, after all of the hard work that I put into getting into and then completing medical school, I decided to forgo flying and pursue a career in medicine. Yes, I miss flying, but I don't regret it.
Good luck to you bro, and keep us posted as to how it goes.

 

[DMBandFan86]

Can anyone explain the scenario as to why the military wants the physician flying the plane?

Saving money on a 2-for-1 soldier? A way to get physicians to stay/stuck for 20+ years? Or to be prepared for a combat situation where everyone else dies and only the doc is left so they can fly the plane away? Or is there another goal to find space pilot physicians?

 

[DeadCactus]

Can anyone explain the scenario as to why the military wants the physician flying the plane?

Saving money on a 2-for-1 soldier? A way to get physicians to stay/stuck for 20+ years? Or to be prepared for a combat situation where everyone else dies and only the doc is left so they can fly the plane away? Or is there another goal to find space pilot physicians?

I'm one of the Kool-Aid drinkers that thinks it's a legitimate idea and viable career path. The problem is that it's for a very specific career path but people look at it as a combination of two seperate careers. To my understanding, the goal is not to train a physician and it is not to train a pilot. The goal is to train a specialist in aerospace medicine. It is a great career path for the very small number of people who want their entire career to be about aerospace medicine research, flight medicine clinic, and flight medicine policy. It's a terrible idea for someone who wants to shoot down MiG's and then perform an appendectomy. The world doesn't need hundreds of them, but I think there is a very real benefit to having a handful of people with a firm foundation in both medicine and aviation to act as a liaison and guide policy at the intersection of the two fields.

 

[FlightDocDan]

First, congratz on getting into PPP, and from what you have said, you are already a designated Airforce Tacair pilot now getting into medical school, correct?

There are definitely pros and cons of being the dual hat pilot-doctor and I agree with a lot of concerns raised here so far in this thread. However, if you have a good reason to do so and have a goal in mind for your career whatever it may be... it is a great opportunity that military provide that you would otherwise not get anywhere else. You DO NOT have to conform to the norm and have to stick to ONE paved/default path (either as a pilot or as a doctor).

Military is short pilots and doctors, but we don't need all pilots to become a doctor (flight doc) and we don't need all flight docs to become a pilot. Purpose of PPP or AMDD (PPP equivalent for Navy) isn't to fill the gap in these two communities (although you will have a ability to fill either or both roles). We provide unique subject matter experties to both communities and be the bridge for some unique situation that benefit from having both experiences. We may not be best at either one, but we will certianly be able to read and translate the two "languages" much better than just a physician or an aviator/aerospace expert.

To answer your question about residency, it would be much easier for your medical career having the residency training right off medical school, but it is not impossile to get it after a gap (flight surgeon tour or pilot tour before residency). This is where you may want to look to see what your long term goal is, what specialty you are looking to do, and how you want to shape your career while taking advantage of the PPP experience. If you are looking at some point in the future to do pure medicine, PPP may just cause delay getting there and maybe not the best career move. If you are looking to do something like Aerospace Medicine/Occupational Health residency and work in the aviation industry as a medical expert/consultant or even an astruanut?, PPP is 100% the way to go. Again, you don't have to be a normal doctor following the traditional path, if that's not what you are looking to do.

I was an aspiring General Surgeon (completed 1 year of internship) and became a Flight Surgeon. Instead of returning to General Surgey, I applied and got accepted to AMDD program with Navy. I probably would have gone back to General Surgery residency if I didn't get accepted to AMDD, but now that I was given this unique opportunity, I plan on making military a career and do Aerospace Medicine Residency/Occupational Health in few years, and no, I do not plan on doing General Surgery in the future and I have zero regret getting to do what I do now. It's ok to be unique and not everyone will support your decision but as long as you know what you are getting yourself into and have the passion for what you do, you should be fine. Just be realistic about setting the goal and realize that there may be some limiting factors taking this rare path. Being a great pilot and a great general surgeon (two careers that require a lot of time and expereince to maintain currency and proficiency) is probably not very realistic compared to being a great aerospace medical expert that can fly and understand medicine.

Hope this helps and at least give you some hope after all the hate and discouraging posts about PPP/AMDD (from a fellow unicorn). Good luck in medical school and I hope you get to find and pave your soild path to whatever career goal you are looking to achieve in the future.

 

[FlightDocDan]

I'm one of the Kool-Aid drinkers that thinks it's a legitimate idea and viable career path. The problem is that it's for a very specific career path but people look at it as a combination of two seperate careers. To my understanding, the goal is not to train a physician and it is not to train a pilot. The goal is to train a specialist in aerospace medicine. It is a great career path for the very small number of people who want their entire career to be about aerospace medicine research, flight medicine clinic, and flight medicine policy. It's a terrible idea for someone who wants to shoot down MiG's and then perform an appendectomy. The world doesn't need hundreds of them, but I think there is a very real benefit to having a handful of people with a firm foundation in both medicine and aviation to act as a liaison and guide policy at the intersection of the two fields.

Ditto... was writing pretty much the same thing as you were posting this... thanks for your support sir!

Can anyone explain the scenario as to why the military wants the physician flying the plane?

Saving money on a 2-for-1 soldier? A way to get physicians to stay/stuck for 20+ years? Or to be prepared for a combat situation where everyone else dies and only the doc is left so they can fly the plane away? Or is there another goal to find space pilot physicians?

Each individual PPP/AMDD are typically assigned a role that will benefit from having dual experties. It can be in advisory role as senior medical officer for higher aviation unit HQs, test pilot squadrons, R&D, etc...

I am pretty early on in my flying side of the career - still learning to fly Osprey (MV-22/CMV-22) but will eventually plan to get involved in the en route care and MEDEVAC in the blue water warfront utilizing tilt rotor aircraft. We currently have a lot of research and testing done by medical side and some V-22 squadrons are testing out the capabilities with S&R and MEDEVAC but hoping to bring both side together to streamline mission, etc... just one specific example of contribution we can provide...

 

[FlightDocDan]

Strong work. Alienated half the forum in your first 2 posts and then doubled down. I can't tell if you're trolling, a paid ad, or really that unable to tolerate the slightest resistance to something you've already decided you want to do.

you are talking to a jet pilot... lol cut him some slack

 

[DeadCactus]

you are talking to a jet pilot... lol cut him some slack

I totally missed that. The push-back seemed over-the-top with my misperception that it was coming from someone with no experience as either a pilot or physician.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Why did you go to medical school if you want to fly jets and you were already flying jets? Astronaut program?

I think this will make it harder to get a competitive residency. We like due course physicians the same way that the line likes due course officers. Not wanting residency badly enough to apply immediately because you want to do something else will be viewed as a "bad reason". Programs will also wonder if you can handle the rigor of jumping back into training. I'd think someone who gave up a career like yours to go to med school might want a high speed medical career doing something a lot more cool than physicals and hanging out in a flight suit. Otherwise, why not just bail on the doctor thing and go fly.

I was a one-year wonder as were several other folks here. In hindsight, it wasn't a good idea. Back when I did it, it was much more common and required of many. I did it by choice and it was a mistake. Everyone should do a residency if they are going to be taking care of patients. I bet you don't want to believe that because you want to do this program and, like me, you'll probably allow yourself to be reassured with the idea that your patients are healthy and its ok to be a glorified mid-level. Its not, you'll miss stuff. I can't fathom why someone who excelled to the point where he flies military jets wants to be a mediocre doctor. And if you stay out in the line world forever, you might never even realize what you've missed (we all know those doctors and they are definitely not doing their patients a service). There was an aerospace med PD on here a while back who would claim with a completely straight face that aerospace med residents were better prepared to take care of sick inpatients than internists who had completed an actual medicine residency. That kind of attitude is exactly why these undertrained doctors are a problem.

So, basically, I think you're tossing away your potential to be an amazing subspecialty surgeon, anesthesiologist, interventional cardiologist/radiologist, etc because you miss being a jet pilot. If thats the case, I'd recommend going back to being a pilot. Otherwise, I'd recommend jumping into this career with the same gusto and taking a good clinical job rather than a primarily administrative one. If you think about life after the military, the options will be very limited and primarily administrative/program management (sounds pretty boring) if you don't become a real clinical doctor.

 

[DrMetal]

I was an aspiring General Surgeon (completed 1 year of internship) and became a Flight Surgeon. Instead of returning to General Surgey, I applied and got accepted to AMDD program with Navy. I probably would have gone back to General Surgery residency if I didn't get accepted to AMDD,

That's too bad, I'm sure you would've made a great surgeon (ie a real doctor). These so-called occupational specialties (prev med, occ med, Aerospace med, Dive med . . .what next? how bout railroad med?) are often touted in the military, but there's no real magic to them. How many aerospace medicine physicians did you know growing up? Is that what you aspired to be going into medical school? I think not. You'd service yourself much better (and you'll be much more employable as a civilian) if you do a primary residency (IM, FM, GS, Psych etc) and then do one of these softball occ med specialties.

When a pilot or astronaut is truly sick or injured (or when there's a question about it), it's not the Occ Med or Aerospace med doc who renders final treatment. It's the cardiologist, or the orthopedic surgeon, or the psychiatrist. Let's be honest. And if you're going to make the argument that the Aerospace/occmed is important, because he knows all the rules, regulations, and paperwork, so too does a good administrative assistant. You don't need an MD solely for that.

 

[FlightDocDan]

That's too bad, I'm sure you would've made a great surgeon (ie a real doctor). These so-called occupational specialties (prev med, occ med, Aerospace med, Dive med . . .what next? how bout railroad med?) are often touted in the military, but there's no real magic to them. How many aerospace medicine physicians did you know growing up? Is that what you aspired to be going into medical school? I think not. You'd service yourself much better (and you'll be much more employable as a civilian) if you do a primary residency (IM, FM, GS, Psych etc) and then do one of these softball occ med specialties.

When a pilot or astronaut is truly sick or injured (or when there's a question about it), it's not the Occ Med or Aerospace med doc who renders final treatment. It's the cardiologist, or the orthopedic surgeon, or the psychiatrist. Let's be honest. And if you're going to make the argument that the Aerospace/occmed is important, because he knows all the rules, regulations, and paperwork, so too does a good administrative assistant. You don't need an MD solely for that.

I appreciate your assessment and your views on Occ Med but there are huge industrial world that require medical expert probably a lot bigger than you or any of those "real" doctor that you call would know unless you are involved with it. Yes I may not be the one ultimately "fixing" their medical illness or injury but I would still be involved in their care and coordinating any needed specialist to get that individual back on track and return them to working again.

Just like there is no single specialities that can treat all illness and injuries, we all have our roles in the health care enterprize. We refer to a specialist when approriate. Just because you don't understand the roles and scope of our work within the system and we do different work than what the typical doctors would do inside a typical hospital/clinic wouldn't make us any less important.

Occ health providers are needed in almost every industrial complex we have in our society - health care, aviation, factories, and YES we have occ health standard for DOT/Railroad workers (we just can't name it all and no point making it all too specific) etc... we have health standard for everything and you need a physician to accurately assess and make appropriate medical decisions. It is probably easy job overall compared to doing a complex surgical procedure, but I diesagree with you that it cannot be simply handled by an administrative assistant (if you had said PA or NP, i'd probably agree with you). The perk here: it is pretty much cash business, don't have to be a bitch to large insurance companies (having to beg them to provide care to your patient based on your expert clinical decision or being told what you can and cannot do based on $$$), easy life style, and getting to do what I enjoy doing besides medicine (i.e flying)... zero regret not killing my social life slaving in the operating room.

Having medical degree doesn't mean you must do what everyone else is doing. There are so many alternative career options (most are rare) that small group of people find, medical legal lawyers (MD/JD), MD/PhD who are doing medical research (+/- clinical practice), engineers/pharma company medical consultant (medical directors), etc... Occ health is just an example of alternatie medicine that doesn't follow the traditional path. Also, there are huge option of civilian positions post military in aviation that I plan on transitioning to (hopefully several years down the road) and I am much happier about it. I know way too many burnt out doctors in civilian side who are looking for ways to quit medicine completely or have already quit and doing something else... no thank you to that.

 

[DrMetal]

but I diesagree with you that it cannot be simply handled by an administrative assistant (if you had said PA or NP, i'd probably agree with you).

Disagree with me all you want. As evidence, I give you Exhibit A, the Civilian World: go to any of your favorite OccMed Work Comp clinics (Concentra, formerly US Healthworks, etc) and you'll find plenty of PAs and NPs, doing the job. Many of the doctors there were moonlighting internists, FPs, Orthopods, hell I was there as a GMO. Few were Occ Med trained formally. We had an army of administrative assistants that dealt with the paperwork.

Look in the back of JAMA or NEWJM sometime. Do you seen anybody advertising for civilian flight surgeons? I'm sure the jobs are there, it's just not very viable. I guess if your intention is only to practice in the military, then go nuts . . . pretty boring if you ask me. I didn't bust by rear as a high school student, a pre-med undergrad, a medical student, and a resident (20 years in the making) to do DOT/FAA physicals for the rest of my life.

 

[FlightDocDan]

Disagree with me all you want. As evidence, I give you Exhibit A, the Civilian World: go to any of your favorite OccMed Work Comp clinics (Concentra, formerly US Healthworks, etc) and you'll find plenty of PAs and NPs, doing the job. Many of the doctors there were moonlighting internists, FPs, Orthopods, hell I was there as a GMO. Few were Occ Med trained formally. We had an army of administrative assistants that dealt with the paperwork.

Look in the back of JAMA or NEWJM sometime. Do you seen anybody advertising for civilian flight surgeons? I'm sure the jobs are there, it's just not very viable. I guess if your intention is only to practice in the military, then go nuts . . . pretty boring if you ask me. I didn't bust by rear as a high school student, a pre-med undergrad, a medical student, and a resident (20 years in the making) to do DOT/FAA physicals for the rest of my life.

There are alot of paperwork involved and yes we need admin assistant to help and do alot of the paperwork but medical piece are still there. I said I would agree that PA and NPs can do the job coz yes they totally can but when it comes to making the policy change or something unique come up, you still get the final say as a physician. (Sure, I'll probably consult expert at that point in whatever the specialty it applies).

There wouldn't be a need to have the job advertised in JAMA or big articles maybe because people aren't quitting left and right haha...

i dont know why you think it's not viable just because it's a small and unique community. The job security is there and it's solid. Probably will get way more competitive to get in the future as people burnt out from the normal medicine realize how cushy and nice occ health is... hence, having AMDD/PPP experience in the military is the absolute fit for those kind of stuff to stay competitive for that.

We clearly have different interests and goals. I don't care who is right or wrong because everyone will have their views at the end of the day and thats totally fine... I'm just trying to say, just because you don't do the normal stuff doesn't make you a bad doctor or boring. It maybe boring to you, but not to someone else and you should respect that. I'd say you will more likely to be a good doctor in any specialties if you are passionate about it and enjoy what you do, compared to a well trained specialists who are burnt out and ready to quit.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Most people don't go to medical school for jobs that are primarily administrative and where the big event is creating a policy change. Glad its working for you but the point of the feedback is that OP needs to understand he's pigeonholing himself into that kind of career.

 

[Konigstiger]

@flyingfortwo if you don't mind me asking, how did you get into the program? The Navy has something similar that I wanted to do, but from what I've heard it's nearly impossible to get accepted to unless you were already a former military pilot before starting medical school.

 

[j4pac]

I’d focus on one thing at a time. Both are really challenging, require all of your attention, and commitment. Peoples lives will be depending on you. I’d probably become a military pilot first. It’s a young man’s job…tons of pilots who later become doctors.

 

[Tenbusu]

Agree with most of the comments on here, for and against PPP. They are not mutually exclusive.

I have a friend who I went to med school with who just finished pilot training for this program. His emphasis now is on flying almost every day. He does 2 days per month in flight med clinic. He did gensurg intern year, then GMO flight surgeon for 3 years prior to applying for PPP. Definitely challenging to maintain both skills, one will always suffer. And I believe he has a 10 year pilot commitment with no bonus (as a pilot or for board cert’d doc). But on the upside he gets to do something amazing (in life) that most people don’t get to do. I went through med school later in life (started in 30s), after being an enlisted aviator, but would’ve applied to this if I was younger.

Yes, you will never be the best doctor, you will never be the best pilot. We all constantly close doors to being the best at something throughout our lives through the decisions we make. By committing to FM residency, I ruled out a bunch of surgical specialties. By focusing on clinic, I don’t deliver babies anymore.

But your career will be pilot-physician, so that’s what you have to be the best at. You have to be humble enough to ask for help when you need it in both specialties. But you will have insight into each community that no one else has, and can be a conduit for disparate professions. A definite struggle, but will be worth it if that’s where your heart is.

As far as residency after this career, I would think you’d have a much better chance at AF residency vs civ.

 

[DrMetal]

He does 2 days per month in flight med clinic.
Yes, you will never be the best doctor,

Be the best doctor? That's hardly a doctor at all. 2 days per month in a flight clinic??? Why bother?

By committing to FM residency, I ruled out a bunch of surgical specialties. By focusing on clinic, I don’t deliver babies anymore.

Yeah, but at least you're trained in a well-regarded clinical specialty that's sought after in the civilian world. This program is non-sense unless you've first trained in a real specialty. (And I don't need to define real. We all know what we're talking about).

 

[Caninehalitosis]

If it is your passion you should do it. As a senior in college I had orders to pilot training (ROTC) and admission to medical school. I would have jumped at the chance to do both. At the time I could only do one and subsequently spent 4 years as an USAF flight surgeon. Three of our flight surgeons and one of our GMO's went on to anesthesia with only an internship and the 3-4 years of general military primary care. None of us had any problem getting in or getting through residency. All of us (weirdly) have pilot licenses, 3 of us are instrument rated, and one of us is now a CFI and FAA aeromedical examiner. Plenty of docs start a residency in their mid 30's if you choose to go that route.