Physicians just prescribe so they get kickbacks

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

NYEMMED

Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
827
Reaction score
825
I’ve heard this line so many times. On the news, in the ED, etc.

There seems to be a perception that physicians are paid by Pharma companies by the script.

It’s laughable, but irritating.

Anybody else running into this?

Members don't see this ad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Uh, yeah, because the $4 generic list at Walmart generates so much in kickbacks. Not to mention the free list at Publix (or whatever is available in your part of the country)...
 
  • Haha
Reactions: 1 user
Members don't see this ad :)
Perdue pharma paid off my loans. I thought that was common. (I’m kidding of course, it was Merck)
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: 4 users
In mozambique one of the docs had a drug swag white coat.
For liquid ibuprofen.
 
The only thing we get from these people is free food sometimes...
 
The medical systems our group contracts with forbids pretty much everything, including food.

I'd happily take their money, but I'm still A) using whatever the hospital P&T committee decides and B) don't really trust new drugs
The only thing we get from these people is free food sometimes...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
My gf is a FNP and it's ridiculous hearing her stories about some of the drug reps at their clinic. These guys will bribe the nurses and MAs just to let them back so they can ambush the doc or NP. They bring food, game tickets, take their orders for breakfast/lunch, free meals, free samples. She makes it sound like they are out there daily clawing their way back to give their 2 minute spiel and get their signature.

The most we seem to get in the ED is the occasional Xarelto or Eliquis rep that brings us Chik-fil-A or donuts.
 
I often write Rx's for tylenol and motrin because people love getting Rx's gotta keep those press ganey scores high! :dead:
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
The most we seem to get in the ED is the occasional Xarelto or Eliquis rep that brings us Chik-fil-A or donuts.

Big spenders those pharma companies. Pfizer and J&J rolling out the Chik-fil-A as a bribe. Or a handout.
They make billions of dollars. The least they can do is try harder and bring fancy food.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I'm tired of taking ethics modules about kickbacks

I've spent the first part of my attendinghood figuring out how to get them, these questions are just taunting me
 
I'm tired of taking ethics modules about kickbacks

I've spent the first part of my attendinghood figuring out how to get them, these questions are just taunting me
You should interpret them as a how to.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Members don't see this ad :)
Dude I'll totally take the game tix. Like 100%. I ain't prescribing your **** drug tho.
 
Ours are either rapid click through and get credit in 20 seconds or one that's just a PDF and an attestation. I totally take my time and really absorb the material.
I'm tired of taking ethics modules about kickbacks

I've spent the first part of my attendinghood figuring out how to get them, these questions are just taunting me
 
In EM, these kickbacks for prescribing schemes are rare. I literally never saw it once or even suspected it, in 11 years in EM. In some specialties however, they’re rampant, with kick-backs disguised as speaking, teaching or research arrangements.

Since moving to the outpatient world I’ve seen it all around me, in multiple specialties. It’s certainly a minority of physicians, but it’s a toxic enough group to create a not so insignificant stain on the rest of us and the profession.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Agree with birdstrike, I think the EM community underestimates how much of an issue this is in other settings where physicians are choosing what drugs a patient is started on for a chronic condition or what device to use.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
They can get the money but I don't think they should do what Big Pharma want them to do...


I got $1000 honoraria payment from a big pharma for being a participant in a 4 hrs conference call, but that does not mean I am going to prescribe their sh***t.
 
Last edited:
They can the money but I don't think they should do what Big Pharma want them to do...


I got $1000 honoraria payment from a big pharma for being a participant in a 4 hrs conference call, but that does not mean I am going to prescribe their sh***t.
Except the data says very clearly otherwise
 
  • Like
Reactions: 6 users
It's really rampant in the non EM world.

You gotta **** these clowns and their dirty money out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Are you telling me you've never taking anything from big pharma?
This thread has the 2 main databases for this sort of thing:. CMS thinks I received money from big pharma during residency.

The CMS database from 2013 to 2018 has me listed for $112.82. If you go by year, 2013 was $11, 2014 was $14, 2015-2017 was $0, and 2018 was $88.82.

I've been an attending since 2013. I accepted 0 dollars from drug companies for half of those years. One lunch per year for another 2 of those years and then an embarrassing $88 that last year which works out to 7 lunches.

So no, not zero from big pharma but as close to zero as you're likely to see.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
This thread has the 2 main databases for this sort of thing:. CMS thinks I received money from big pharma during residency.

The CMS database from 2013 to 2018 has me listed for $112.82. If you go by year, 2013 was $11, 2014 was $14, 2015-2017 was $0, and 2018 was $88.82.

I've been an attending since 2013. I accepted 0 dollars from drug companies for half of those years. One lunch per year for another 2 of those years and then an embarrassing $88 that last year which works out to 7 lunches.

So no, not zero from big pharma but as close to zero as you're likely to see.
Well, these lunches are $$$...
 
Yes, they are. And in 6 years I've accumulated 1/10th of the money in lunches that you got in 4 hours.

I'm clearly in Big Pharma's pocket.
You and I aren't the issue clearly.
It's the doc with 20x what we got.
Ane especially the doc who got 200x what we got.
 
They can get the money but I don't think they should do what Big Pharma want them to do...


I got $1000 honoraria payment from a big pharma for being a participant in a 4 hrs conference call, but that does not mean I am going to prescribe their sh***t.
You don't have to prescribe their drugs. The money keeps flowing only to those that do. These companies are smart. That money is in their budget for one reason and one reason only: To get their drugs prescribed and their devices used. They don't continue to authorize it, where it fails to achieve their goal. They will adjust as time goes on, and redirect the money where it achieves their goal. Drug and device companies also have rock solid research, along with corroborating real life experience, proving that money spent for these purposes is well spent. It may not work on every physician, but it works often enough, on enough physicians, to justify their continue to spend the money for this type of marketing.

As long as you see pharma and device companies spending their money on marketing directly to MDs, you can bet your life it's working. There's nothing on Earth the business people that run these companies hate more than wasting money they could otherwise be putting in their own bank accounts.

Even if you didn't prescribe their meds after you cashed you $1,000 check, they know damn well that was enough money you certainly told some other doctors about it, which is certain to lead at least one to sign up to cash the next check, who might prescribe their poison. Someone's probably reading this right now, thinking, "Wow, @Splenda88 and @Birdstrike say all I have to do is prescribe some new drug and I'll get $1K every few months for listening to a 4 hr conference call while I scroll through social media? Sign me up!" And as long as they've convinced that person their new drug is 'probably not worse' than the one they're already prescribing, they've got 'em.

Read Influence, by Robert Cialdini, and you'll realize this is as easy as counting 1, 2, 3 for marketing reps, and they know it with robotic, absolute certainty. While it may not work on you, the company reps know that if the doc is even so much as listening, or certainly if accepting anything of value (food, money) no matter how small, they've got 'em, whether the doc knows it or not.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
Got to admit that I've had lots of free lunches at nice restaurants. There were a couple of reps that were stunningly beautiful, which I actually listened to their spiel.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
You don't have to prescribe their drugs. The money keeps flowing only to those that do. These companies are smart. That money is in their budget for one reason and one reason only: To get their drugs prescribed and their devices used. They don't continue to authorize it, where it fails to achieve their goal. They will adjust as time goes on, and redirect the money where it achieves their goal. Drug and device companies also have rock solid research, along with corroborating real life experience, proving that money spent for these purposes is well spent. It may not work on every physician, but it works often enough, on enough physicians, to justify their continue to spend the money for this type of marketing.

As long as you see pharma and device companies spending their money on marketing directly to MDs, you can bet your life it's working. There's nothing on Earth the business people that run these companies hate more than wasting money they could otherwise be putting in their own bank accounts.

Even if you didn't prescribe their meds after you cashed you $1,000 check, they know damn well that was enough money you certainly told some other doctors about it, which is certain to lead at least one to sign up to cash the next check, who might prescribe their poison. Someone's probably reading this right now, thinking, "Wow, @Splenda88 and @Birdstrike say all I have to do is prescribe some new drug and I'll get $1K every few months for listening to a 4 hr conference call while I scroll through social media? Sign me up!" And as long as they've convinced that person their new drug is 'probably not worse' than the one they're already prescribing, they've got 'em.

Read Influence, by Robert Cialdini, and you'll realize this is as easy as counting 1, 2, 3 for marketing reps, and they know it with robotic, absolute certainty. While it may not work on you, the company reps know that if the doc is even so much as listening, or certainly if accepting anything of value (food, money) no matter how small, they've got 'em, whether the doc knows it or not.
Rest assure that nothing will influence how I practice medicine...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Big spenders those pharma companies. Pfizer and J&J rolling out the Chik-fil-A as a bribe. Or a handout.
They make billions of dollars. The least they can do is try harder and bring fancy food.

Yeah pizza just isn’t cutting it anymore. Come on I want some of the immunotherapy money lol
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Top