Physician Shadowing - Essential like Clinical Volunteering, or "just optional?"

[IonClaws]

Hi everyone,

Just asking since I haven't seen clear answers:

I know that clinical volunteering is almost essential to being accepted into medical school. However, what about shadowing (a) physician(s)?

I've read that the average is 50 hours, and I have plenty of clinical volunteering hours (over 200 at one hospital, about 100 at another). I have a little bit of physician shadowing (15-20 hours, possibly?) but am wondering if medical schools usually look for both more and more consistent shadowing (these hours occurred mostly last summer and tended to vary from week to week).

Input is appreciated, thanks!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[GoZags]

Hi everyone,

Just asking since I haven't seen clear answers:

I know that clinical volunteering is almost essential to being accepted into medical school. However, what about shadowing (a) physician(s)?

I've read that the average is 50 hours, and I have plenty of clinical volunteering hours (over 200 at one hospital, about 100 at another). I have a little bit of physician shadowing (15-20 hours, possibly?) but am wondering if medical schools usually look for both more and more consistent shadowing (these hours occurred mostly last summer and tended to vary from week to week).

Input is appreciated, thanks!

Friend of mine who was a stellar applicant as far as numbers went, probably 3.9+ and 33 MCAT with multiple publications etc. Got into medical school with very little physician shadowing and clinical volunteering both. So yes, possible if you're a knockout applicant and you apply to schools that heavily favor numbers but be prepared to field questions about "why medicine?" and "you don't have many experiences that show you're interested in medicine" in your interview

 

[IonClaws]

Friend of mine who was a stellar applicant as far as numbers went, probably 3.9+ and 33 MCAT with multiple publications etc. Got into medical school with very little physician shadowing and clinical volunteering both. So yes, possible if you're a knockout applicant and you apply to schools that heavily favor numbers but be prepared to field questions about "why medicine?" and "you don't have many experiences that show you're interested in medicine" in your interview

Well, my question was just about physician shadowing, not about clinical volunteering (which, again, I've had over 300 hours of experience doing, which is plenty IMO).

My question is - is it disadvantageous to not have a lot of physician shadowing experience but having a lot of clinical volunteering experience?

 

[lunt]

I can't fully answer your question, but coming from my own experience, shadowing is not mandatory for admission at every medical school.

I had lots of clinical volunteering hours but no shadowing experience at all. I have nonetheless been accepted at some medical schools this cycle (first try). I was surely at a disadvantage compared to other applicants, but I can't tell you how much of a disadvantage it was: I'm an international applicant and perhaps some schools simply rejected me due to the limited number of spots that they have for us.

Also, during my interviews, one physician pointed out that I had no shadowing experience. He didn't make a big deal out of it though. Just make sure that you have an idea of what it is to be a doctor.

That's my story. Hope it helps. Check my mdapp too.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

I only have ~40 hours, I was fine. I think it may be a checklist item for many schools. If you've done some, I think you'll be okay

 

[MedPR]

Well, my question was just about physician shadowing, not about clinical volunteering (which, again, I've had over 300 hours of experience doing, which is plenty IMO).

My question is - is it disadvantageous to not have a lot of physician shadowing experience but having a lot of clinical volunteering experience?

How can you have 300 hours of clinical volunteering but 0 hours shadowing? You never thought to ask if you could shadow?

To answer your question, if you and some other applicant have the exact same stats but they have ~100 hours volunteering + ~100 hours shadowing, they win.

It's not absolutely essential to shadow, but when you supposedly have spent 300 hours in clinical areas, ADCOMs may wonder why you didn't use any of the connections you made over that time to find someone to shadow.

 

[laxian]

Hi everyone,

Just asking since I haven't seen clear answers:

I know that clinical volunteering is almost essential to being accepted into medical school. However, what about shadowing (a) physician(s)?

I've read that the average is 50 hours, and I have plenty of clinical volunteering hours (over 200 at one hospital, about 100 at another). I have a little bit of physician shadowing (15-20 hours, possibly?) but am wondering if medical schools usually look for both more and more consistent shadowing (these hours occurred mostly last summer and tended to vary from week to week).

Input is appreciated, thanks!

I think a lot of the time these things become mixed. When I was shadowing I did a lot of the same things I did during clinical volunteering. Conversely during my clinical volunteering I ended up shadowing the doctors also.

This is not uncommon.

The adcom people I talked to definitely gave off the impression that shadowing was not essential but a giant cherry on top. Shows you know what you are getting into and are interested in the actual practice of medicine rather than some abstract ideal or whatever.

If its not too late for you, definitely do some. It's also completely within your control at any point. Not like you are trying to resurrect your GPA or retake MCAT, ya know?

 

[IonClaws]

How can you have 300 hours of clinical volunteering but 0 hours shadowing? You never thought to ask if you could shadow?

To answer your question, if you and some other applicant have the exact same stats but they have ~100 hours volunteering + ~100 hours shadowing, they win.

It's not absolutely essential to shadow, but when you supposedly have spent 300 hours in clinical areas, ADCOMs may wonder why you didn't use any of the connections you made over that time to find someone to shadow.

From my experience, clinical volunteering in patient area support capacities usually puts you in contact with many, many nurses and the "down and dirty" of medicine, but physicians are typically not present and if they are, they are very busy/cannot talk. I've asked to see surgeries, etc. at my clinical volunteer areas before, but the nurses would say "no."

I am in agreement with Iaxian about the two overlapping; at a trauma center I was sometimes able to talk to physicians about my medical school aspirations and they would show me xrays, etc. and tell me about the medicine involved, so in a sense this was "shadowing" (although not formal).
I never thought to ask them if I could shadow them formally, but I don't think that shadowing necessarily naturally follows clinical volunteering (what you said assumes a lot including semi-strong connections with physicians, a medical staff willing to cooperate, etc.).

 

[laxian]

Also just btw, out of my 3 shadowing experiences (about 150 hrs) two of them were through just cold calling.

I find that enough doctors are willing to show you their work if they think you will be a doctor in the future.

They have all been at big teaching hospitals. Generally doctors don't want you at their private practice...

 

[scarshapedstar]

I volunteer at a small free clinic and assist as much as possible to justify my presence in the room with the doctor. I could also call it shadowing, but to me that sounds more like standing quietly in the corner, so I don't. I made it pretty clear on my AMCAS that there were equal elements of service and learning and it worked out well.

It's hard to make that kind of arrangement at a hospital, though, for all sorts of reasons. Although:

They have all been at big teaching hospitals. Generally doctors don't want you at their private practice...

I think it's more like, the more money people are paying to see the doctor, the less willing they are to have you as an observer. And the customer is always right. But yeah, free clinics and teaching hospitals are most likely to let another clown join the circus, so to speak.

 

[intheclouds]

Interesting post everyone. I have similar experience doing clinical experience at a hospital but I've decided to stop. I have a connection with a oral surgeon who runs a private practice who I think would be willing to let me show me the ropes.

What sort of things would be beneficial for me to do? I don't just want to "observe" but I'm not sure what sorts of things we are allowed to do/count as great medical related EC's.

 

[scarshapedstar]

Hopefully you will see something more maxillofacial than oral, because you seen one wisdom tooth extraction, you seen 'em all. In fact you could probably do it yourself with a flathead screwdriver and an x-acto knife.

Although these days they place a lot of implants, and that's pretty neat. And if you can watch him flap the gums without flinching, that's a good sign.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

From my experience, clinical volunteering in patient area support capacities usually puts you in contact with many, many nurses and the "down and dirty" of medicine, but physicians are typically not present and if they are, they are very busy/cannot talk. I've asked to see surgeries, etc. at my clinical volunteer areas before, but the nurses would say "no."

I am in agreement with Iaxian about the two overlapping; at a trauma center I was sometimes able to talk to physicians about my medical school aspirations and they would show me xrays, etc. and tell me about the medicine involved, so in a sense this was "shadowing" (although not formal).
I never thought to ask them if I could shadow them formally, but I don't think that shadowing necessarily naturally follows clinical volunteering (what you said assumes a lot including semi-strong connections with physicians, a medical staff willing to cooperate, etc.).

the bold comment should give you your answer. Adcoms know that. I think shadowing is pretty much essential because you need to see what the doctor does all day. Talking to physician about your med school aspirations is hardly the same thing. If I work as a CNA and a doctor walks I am treating the patient and says I can stay, I am not shadowing. You don't see what he is doing when he isn't in the room. You need to shadow. If you have good relations with doctors already, just ask, "can I shadow you."

To give the short answer, yes. For all practical purposes, shadowing is essential. Adcoms want to know you understand what being a doctor is like, not what being in health care is like.

 

[GraceEuphoria]

Shadowing is super important, not just for the adcom, but also for YOU. The number of people who do it and then change their mind can't be discounted. However, a ton isn't necessary. As others have said, clinical volunteer work is often simultaneously shadowing. You don't have to be in the exam room to call it shadowing.

That said, I only shadowed here and there, probably less than 40 hrs (minus a summer camp back in high school that allowed me quite a bit of exposure). As far as getting my letters went, I only shadowed a doc 6 hrs or so before getting one. I did reapply though- the first time I only shadowed 4-6 in order to get that letter. Point being, you need it, but not so you can broadcast how much exposure you've had to the adcom. It's a way of gaining clinical savvy so that you sound educated, researched and all around prepared during interviews and when writing your personal statement.

I think you probably have enough

 

[LieutenantDan]

Clinical volunteering is important and so is shadowing, and having both is much better than having a lot of either one. Especially for the purpose of getting a letter of rec, shadowing is very important. I went a similar route to GraceEuphoria in my first cycle in that I shadowed a doc for only 8 hours before getting a letter or rec. I recommend against this, in one of my interviews they asked me how can anyone know enough about you in 8 hours to write a credible letter or rec. As far as the hours go, I think 40 is a good number to shoot for and is actually the required minimum at a few schools, 100 is more than enough and 200 is probably reaching diminishing returns.
I agree with FrkyBgStok about the difference between shadowing and clinical volunteering, I will add that volunteering is great to show that you enjoy being a care provider or spending time with patients and staff, but the behind the scenes things that doctors do is what is really valuable from shadowing. And not just the exciting stuff, seeing all the tedious paperwork and non-clinical work doctors do and still wanting to go into medicine will tell admissions committees that you generally know what you are getting into and still have the resolve to continue on.
If you apply to DO schools try to get some DO shadowing too, I only have MD shadowing and a few DO schools won't accept you without DO shadowing, and many prefer it over MD. That being said, I still got a few DO acceptances so anything is possible, you just want to attack this application from every possible angle. Good luck!

 

[ineed2stpsmurfn]

...