physician in training license

[mpdoc2]

Do I need a physician in training license before starting internship?

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[NotAProgDirector]

Any program you match into / sign a contract with will deal with this for you. There will be paperwork to deal with, but it is not something you should worry about. It also depends on the state -- some states have training licenses, some do not.

 

[sam1999]

aPD:

Do you know (or know of a source) which state require to have training license and which don't?

 

[gutonc]

aPD:

Do you know (or know of a source) which state require to have training license and which don't?

Do NOT worry about this. If you need a license, you'll get the info from your program. I only know of one state for certain that doesn't require a license, CA. It's essentially a formality assuming you don't have any red flags (i.e. criminal convictions) on your record.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Agreed with Gutonc. Not sure why you are worried about this. All of the programs have good relationships with their state's BOM. Training licenses, if required, are mostly a formality. If you're enrolled in a training program, you'll get a training license for the most part. If you're a convicted major felon or sex offender, there might be a problem, but otherwise there will not. There is no centralized list that I know of, and usually these regulations are buried in the legal docs for the BOM since only programs access them.

 

[dragonfly99]

There are other states bedsides CA that do not require a training license, or that automatically grant one to residents. I think Missouri and Tennessee give you one automatically, and although California is a pain to get an ACTUAL license in, when you are an intern I think you automatically get one that lasts a year or two.

 

[sam1999]

Agreed with Gutonc. Not sure why you are worried about this. All of the programs have good relationships with their state's BOM. Training licenses, if required, are mostly a formality. If you're enrolled in a training program, you'll get a training license for the most part. If you're a convicted major felon or sex offender, there might be a problem, but otherwise there will not. There is no centralized list that I know of, and usually these regulations are buried in the legal docs for the BOM since only programs access them.

Thanks aPD for reply. I don't have any issues. I was just curious to see who else is on the same list.

aPD: Do you know how FCVS works during residency or afterwords? Do they have just completion of residency status or do they also get your performance grades from residency as well?

 

[Winged Scapula]

Having used FCVS (and you should avoid it unless applying to a state that requires it, IMHO) all FCVS does is *verify* your credentials. That is, they verify you really have a medical degree, a residency certificate, etc. They do NOT report your residency evaluations, medical school grades, etc. That is not their job.

Like aPD, I'm still not sure what your question is about training licenses. Some states have them, some do not. Some, like Pennsylvania, require that you maintain one all throughout residency, even if you have a full and unrestricted license. Its not a big deal unless you have issues that would prevent you from getting any license in which case you would be dumped from your residency program anyway (FYI: training licenses cannot be used to moonlight if that's what you were wondering).

 

[sam1999]

Thanks WS:

How difficult is FCVS verification process. Takes for ever or smooth? I thought once you use this then you don't need to deal with your medical school or ECFMG?

Some programs do say on their website that they do allow moon lighting in 2nd year and after. Some of these hospitals are training license required state and some of these states require you to do at least 2 years of residency to get license of your own. So how would that work and would it help if you are training in a non license required state?

 

[Winged Scapula]

Thanks WS:

How difficult is FCVS verification process. Takes for ever or smooth? I thought once you use this then you don't need to deal with your medical school or ECFMG?

Takes forever.

Not smooth.

Please do a search for threads on FCVS and you will see my detailed rant. Finally, after 2+ years, it took the threat of legal action to get my monies back for them to agree to fix the errors of their own making (they sent a pre-populated form to my fellowship coordinator who completed it and sent it back. Trouble was FCVS populated it with info that I'd done a Vascular Surgery fellowship. This was in small print at the top of the form, so the PC never saw it, just got the PD's sig and sent it back. Thus, FCVS completed my profile saying I was a Vascular Surgeon. According to the supervisor, when someone typed in the code for the name of my fellowship hospital when preparing my verification forms, Department of Vascular Surgery came up and they didn't notice/bother to correct/whatever. )

But here's the MAJOR rub.

1) some states don't/won't use it

2) even for states that will use it, there is no guarantee that the hospitals will. If you want to admit patients to the hospital, you have to be credentialed.

Credentialing requires filling out all the same forms, sending in the same copies of med school degrees, residency certificates, references, licenses, etc. and fees. You cannot send in FCVS unless the hospital specifically allows it. I have privileges at 7 places here in town...none of them accepted FCVS (hell, they wouldn't even accept the State of Arizona's centralized credential verification service, so why would they accept some outsider's?). They all did their own primary source verification.

This was true for several of my friends as well, so I'm not alone.

Use FCVS if you must, but don't say I didn't warn ya.

Some programs do say on their website that they do allow moon lighting in 2nd year and after. Some of these hospitals are training license required state and some of these states require you to do at least 2 years of residency to get license of your own. So how would that work and would it help if you are training in a non license required state?

I think you are confusing the training license and the full and unrestricted license.

A training license does not allow you to moonlight, except for perhaps "in-house". It is a requirement for some states and should not be construed as any sort of license to practice medicine outside of your home program and its affiliate sites. When you match, your program will advise you on whether you need the training license, if you have to pay, what you have to do (in PA, it was $15 and a single page form).

A full and unrestricted license allows you to moonlight anywhere, get a DEA, basically practice medicine. However as an FMG/IMG, most states require that you do X number of years of GME before you are eligible for this. Therefore, if you are planning on moonlighting outside of your home program, you will be required to have a full and unrestricted license and that means you must complete X number of years of residency before you can apply for it. The number of years depends on the state.

Some states (like PA) require you to have both - ie, we had to have a training license for the entire time we were in training, even if, as senior/Chief residents, we had the full and unrestricted license.

Please do not spend a lot of time worrying about this. You aren't going to be moonlighting as an intern anyway.

 

[bloomingdale]

jjjjjjjjjjjj

 

[Raryn]

I know holy necrobump but sadly I’ve looked high and low and can’t find the information I’m looking for. I’m applying to a new field (for pgy2) and have noticed on a few states licensing questions that they ask if you’ve ever been put on a PIP. I was during my past residency.

I highly disagree with what was said about me (had numerous faculty and colleagues back me as to the ridiculousness of it) but am worried this can prevent me from getting a training license should I match into a state with such questions. Nothing criminal/drug/ etc in nature. Mostly the PIP talked about about communication, efficiency, task prioritization etc etc things that aren’t necessarily always objective but if someone higher up doesn’t like you can report it pretty easily (but also things I can work on: I recognize(d) that) ; further, it does mention professionalism secondary to not maintaining relationships with peers (yes, seriously, because I just wanted to work and not hang out with my immature co-residents..). I was also reported by a colleague for wearing my badge in the improper location . Because I was in a “patient sensitive” area they claim that my badge locale made it a patient safety concern and that “my tone” was unprofessional when confronted about it… looking back, yes, I should of played the game more and I made some boneheaded mistakes (like wearing my badge at my waist and not chest area???).

I also thought that a PIP doesn’t go on your training record? But want to be open and honest should I match to a state to where the board asks this. Also in general trying to learn from my past, grow, and move forward prosperously.

At any rate, anyone have any input? Should I avoid such states if I’m able or won’t be a hindrance to getting a license in such states?

Thanks!

It will not delay you getting a training license unless you were put on a PIP for a drug/alcohol problem (or sleeping with a patient). The licensing boards give reasonable discretion to the training programs - you're only able to practice in a supervised capacity after all.

It *may* delay you getting a permanent license a bit. It shouldn't stop you from getting one eventually, but depending on the state they may ask you to submit extra explanations that can take an extra month or three to process. Won't be an issue until you're looking at getting a job later on though (or moonlighting).

 

[NotAProgDirector]

It might actually delay a training license a bit. If a state asks about it (not all do) and you answer yes, then they are going to want official documentation from other sites and boards. They are certainly not going to take "your word for it". So there will be some delay as they collect that information. Training licenses are often administratively approved (ie if all paperwork is in, then you get one with no further review). In this case, it might go to a full board review. You are almost certain to get it as @Raryn says. The delay is unlikely to impact your start date. A smart program that has a state like this will plan for a non-call block to start, just to give a bit of a cushion.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

If it's all part of their QA process, then they may not report it to a board at all. In that case, you'd answer the question NO and your worries would end.

Ask your program whether it was reported to the state BoM. If not, then this is over.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

If you report the PIP they will contact everyone. If you don’t they will only contact the other board

Whatever you do, don’t play games here. Ask the program if the PIP was completely internal or not. If it wasn’t then you report it