Pharmacy students acting like they are rich

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sA x sKy said:
First of all..I can't believe this thread is still ranting on. Second..haters will always hate. So please, keep hating. I'm not going to comment anymore on the virtues/vices of why or why I may not deserve a BMW. Like I said in one of my earlier posts, it's clearly subjective from ones background.
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Agree about the background part. I grew up in an upper middle class family and got a car for my sixteenth birthday. It wasn't a BMW but it was a car and it was better than what 90% of my friends got which in most cases was 1) a beater or 2) nothing. My parents had set conditions I had to meet to earn the priv of getting a car and I met them. So I'm sure I thought I earned it and deserved it. Hard to recall because it's been 20 years!!!

My parents' economic situation changed a lot and after I moved to a larger city I had some friends who were substantially richer than I had ever dreamed of being. So I was the one who eloped to save money on a wedding while my friends got 50K weddings and new houses from their parents as wedding gifts. That's life...

Now my husband and I are back in the position of having more a lot more money than most of our peers. How we got it is a sad, tragic story and I wouldn't use the word "earn" or say that we "deserve" it, but I'd hope no one would begrudge us that money... but there is probably some jealous hater out there who would, because that's just how people are. :shrug:
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WVUPharm2007 said:
A lot of rich people say this. As if such flimsy logic is something the proletariat will just accept as fact. After the coming workers revolt that is bound to happen soon...and soon after that when I become president and have them all killed, I plan on justifying it to them by saying, simply, "life ain't fair, Mr koch...now off to the gulag...life has dealt you a poor hand, that's all!"
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I am not sure whether to take this post seriously or not. All I am saying is that some people are rewarded more than others on a basis that is inherently unfair. For every person like the OP, there are 5 people who are working 3 jobs just to make their bills.

My own opinion is that the sooner you learn life isn't fair and that you don't deserve anything, the better off you will be.
 
CUninja said:
I am not sure whether to take this post seriously or not
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You are added to the list for questioning my resolve. You shall be beheaded after the guy that runs Comcast.

All I am saying is that some people are rewarded more than others on a basis that is inherently unfair. For every person like the OP, there are 5 people who are working 3 jobs just to make their bills.

My own opinion is that the sooner you learn life isn't fair and that you don't deserve anything, the better off you will be.
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Interestingly, this same line of logic would justify the existence of a man that robs people for a living as not only acceptable, but borderline admirable...and at the very least as acceptable as any other working stiff. When you think it all out, anyway.

The very idea of a $46k car disgusts me...not on an individual level...people are what they were made to be...if people are insecure enough to think that a stupid car is worth that much...it is what it is...we are made to be consumerists ****** that think a mode of transportation is an extension of who we strive to be...its more of a disgust towards how damn uncivilized we are...

You ever stop and think about $46,000? How much money that is...what resources is could buy? You could feed about 200 children for a year with that. Think about that ****...we all suck.

I know...its not your problem..."life's not fair"...I got my BMW...**** everyone else...whatever bull**** head in the sand argument it is...

...like I said...we are disgustingly uncivilized when you stop and think about it all.

Not saying I'm not part of the problem too...I'm an American...a child of capitalism...but that eats at me all the time. I'm sitting here scarfing down an $8 Trader Joe's pizza...the resources used to buy that would feed several kids that day...a freaking orphanage...and here I am...eating it like its nothing...you suck, I suck...we all suck...and a BMW is pretty much the all-encompassing symbol of how much we all suck...

**** will drive you crazy if you stew on it...
 
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sA x sKy said:
There was more to it than good grades.
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Prostitution? Extortion? Methamphetamine production? Dictator of a third world country???


How about this? Does an 18 year old really understand the value of a $45,000 car? Can they comprehend exactly what they have at that age, maturity level?
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
You are added to the list for questioning my resolve. You shall be beheaded after the guy that runs Comcast.



Interestingly, this same line of logic would justify the existence of a man that robs people for a living as not only acceptable, but borderline admirable...and at the very least as acceptable as any other working stiff. When you think it all out, anyway.

The very idea of a $46k car disgusts me...not on an individual level...people are what they were made to be...if people are insecure enough to think that a stupid car is worth that much...it is what it is...we are made to be consumerists ****** that think a mode of transportation is an extension of who we strive to be...its more of a disgust towards how damn uncivilized we are...

You ever stop and think about $46,000? How much money that is...what resources is could buy? You could feed about 200 children for a year with that. Think about that ****...we all suck.

I know...its not your problem..."life's not fair"...I got my BMW...**** everyone else...whatever bull**** head in the sand argument it is...

...like I said...we are disgustingly uncivilized when you stop and think about it all.

Not saying I'm not part of the problem too...I'm an American...a child of capitalism...but that eats at me all the time. I'm sitting here scarfing down an $8 Trader Joe's pizza...the resources used to buy that would feed several kids that day...a freaking orphanage...and here I am...eating it like its nothing...you suck, I suck...we all suck...and a BMW is pretty much the all-encompassing symbol of how much we all suck...

**** will drive you crazy if you stew on it...
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:thumbup:
 
NaOH said:
I'm more of a Mercedes guy (current dream car is a C63 AMG /drool) but a 335i is fine too. Outside of badge snobbery, I'd almost rather have a 335i than an M3... always had a weakness for forced induction.

I guess you could split the difference and get a 1 M Coupe. Pity they're only making them for a single year.
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The new M3s are gonna be forced induction 6 cylinder engines. They figured out a way to do this while still having more power than the current V8. Apparently, this move was made to comply with the new eco-standards that are coming out. Only thing is that the tuning potential from having a V8 is lost.

Personally, I'd just get a used V8 M3 and then install a supercharger. Should boost up the power to around 700 HP.
 
Sparda29 said:
The new M3s are gonna be forced induction 6 cylinder engines. They figured out a way to do this while still having more power than the current V8. Apparently, this move was made to comply with the new eco-standards that are coming out. Only thing is that the tuning potential from having a V8 is lost.

Personally, I'd just get a used V8 M3 and then install a supercharger. Should boost up the power to around 700 HP.
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Yep, 3 turbos where 1 turbo is going to be electric powered. The V8 grunt itself of the current M3 makes the $70K price totally worth it.
 
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WVUPharm2007 said:
You are added to the list for questioning my resolve. You shall be beheaded after the guy that runs Comcast.
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Seriously?? :laugh::laugh::laugh:

WVUPharm2007 said:
Interestingly, this same line of logic would justify the existence of a man that robs people for a living as not only acceptable, but borderline admirable...and at the very least as acceptable as any other working stiff. When you think it all out, anyway.

The very idea of a $46k car disgusts me...not on an individual level...people are what they were made to be...if people are insecure enough to think that a stupid car is worth that much...it is what it is...we are made to be consumerists ****** that think a mode of transportation is an extension of who we strive to be...its more of a disgust towards how damn uncivilized we are...

You ever stop and think about $46,000? How much money that is...what resources is could buy? You could feed about 200 children for a year with that. Think about that ****...we all suck.

I know...its not your problem..."life's not fair"...I got my BMW...**** everyone else...whatever bull**** head in the sand argument it is...

...like I said...we are disgustingly uncivilized when you stop and think about it all.

Not saying I'm not part of the problem too...I'm an American...a child of capitalism...but that eats at me all the time. I'm sitting here scarfing down an $8 Trader Joe's pizza...the resources used to buy that would feed several kids that day...a freaking orphanage...and here I am...eating it like its nothing...you suck, I suck...we all suck...and a BMW is pretty much the all-encompassing symbol of how much we all suck...

**** will drive you crazy if you stew on it...
Click to expand...

Yes, a world in which we helped each other more would be great, but that is not the world we live in. The U.S. is a nation of excess. This should not be a surprise.

I do agree that 46,000 is a lot for a car and that I wouldn't spend that much. However, if another person wants to spend that much on a car, I am not going to act like I am morally superior to that person because I could have donated that money to charity.
 
I was thrilled to be driving Grandma's Ford Escort station wagon when I was in HS. The type of car they owned was never important...it was more about cars that were practicle and built to last.

Even now that I can afford an expensive car, I have no desire to drop all that money on one. I bought a newer used car when I graduated...but nothing fancy. It was also mostly out of necessity.

To each his own. I spend my money on a nice place to live as opposed to a car. For some people it is nice vacations. But I earn all my money and I am financially independent.
 
PharmDstudent said:
Eggggxactly! And the only way we could all feel good about ourselves again was to blame it on the banks. :eek:
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I agree. Those poor, poor banks. When will we stop villianizing the very institutions that administered the loans? All they did was loan money to people who realistic would never be able to pay it back. They are blameless. It is the fault of the people who took the loans, not the fault of the institutes that made them. Blame must be placed on one group, not shared amongst all parties responsible.

I think we can all agree that the banks were the real victims in all this.
 
Sparda29 said:
Personally, I'd just get a used V8 M3 and then install a supercharger. Should boost up the power to around 700 HP.
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Hm, maybe I'm just timid but 700 just sounds like way too much for anything short of a dedicated drag car. I think 500 hp is the maximum I would want in anything that I would drive on a regular basis... and even that, given what I'm used to, would be scary.
 
owlegrad said:
I agree. Those poor, poor banks. When will we stop villianizing the very institutions that administered the loans? All they did was loan money to people who realistic would never be able to pay it back. They are blameless. It is the fault of the people who took the loans, not the fault of the institutes that made them. Blame must be placed on one group, not shared amongst all parties responsible.

I think we can all agree that the banks were the real victims in all this.
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Self-control, anyone?

How about cash advance loans? Aren't those loans that people can't realistically pay back, too? How can you pay back a loan for your entire paycheck if you live paycheck to paycheck?
 
NaOH said:
Hm, maybe I'm just timid but 700 just sounds like way too much for anything short of a dedicated drag car. I think 500 hp is the maximum I would want in anything that I would drive on a regular basis... and even that, given what I'm used to, would be scary.
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Definitely not daily driver material if its RWD. I've rode along in turbo'd ls1 swapped syclone and AWD with 500+ isn't too bad. I think I could swing a high hp awd daily driver.
 
joetrisman said:
Definitely not daily driver material if its RWD. I've rode along in turbo'd ls1 swapped syclone and AWD with 500+ isn't too bad. I think I could swing a high hp awd daily driver.
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Nah, it's either AWD or RWD for me from now on. I can't stand FWD. If you can't put the car into a drift, then there is a problem.
 
PharmDstudent said:
Self-control, anyone?

How about cash advance loans? Aren't those loans that people can't realistically pay back, too? How can you pay back a loan for your entire paycheck if you live paycheck to paycheck?
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Cash advance loans are terrible, just terrible. But they do get paid back - when the person gets paid. That's how they work, right? I am not 100% on this, but I am pretty sure you agree to pay it back with your next paycheck, right? So they get paid back.
 
spacecowgirl said:
See: mortgage crisis
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So we should lose sleep at night because some of our classmates are financial idiots who blow money on cars/clothes/etc. that they can't afford? The money that professional students get back in loans that they even have the opportunity to blow (after tuition, books, living expenses, etc.) is typically small potatoes compared to the price of a mortgage. And unlike mortgage debt, student loan debt is damn near impossible to get rid of unless you: 1) pay it off or 2) die.

There very well could be a student loan "bubble", but if it happens it isn't going to be caused by a relative handful of students living beyond their means, but by large numbers of graduates being unable to find work in their fields. Whether these students are 100k in debt or 150k in debt is irrelevant if they're unemployed; they won't be able to pay back their loans regardless.
 
R2pharmD2 said:
So we should lose sleep at night because some of our classmates are financial idiots who blow money on cars/clothes/etc. that they can't afford? The money that professional students get back in loans that they even have the opportunity to blow (after tuition, books, living expenses, etc.) is typically small potatoes compared to the price of a mortgage. And unlike mortgage debt, student loan debt is damn near impossible to get rid of unless you: 1) pay it off or 2) die.

There very well could be a student loan "bubble", but if it happens it isn't going to be caused by a relative handful of students living beyond their means, but by large numbers of graduates being unable to find work in their fields. Whether these students are 100k in debt or 150k in debt is irrelevant if they're unemployed; they won't be able to pay back their loans regardless.
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Half the reason I chose pharmacy was due to the fact that most bachelor degrees don't offer a viable solution to paying back student loans. The idea of 15 yrs of payment for 4 yrs of education blows my mind. If I knew that it would take me more than 3-5 years to pay back my loans, I would jump ship.

Hopefully higher education is fixed before my kids have to go through it, but if it isn't, were going to have a long talk about the reality of disney land degrees.
 
I think of it as 15 years to pay off an investment that lasts 35 years (+ the interest made on that investment)
 
owlegrad said:
Cash advance loans are terrible, just terrible. But they do get paid back - when the person gets paid. That's how they work, right? I am not 100% on this, but I am pretty sure you agree to pay it back with your next paycheck, right? So they get paid back.
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But if you use your paycheck to pay off your last check, what do you spend for the next 2 weeks? Especially and some outrageous interest rate?
 
spacecowgirl said:
But if you use your paycheck to pay off your last check, what do you spend for the next 2 weeks? Especially and some outrageous interest rate?
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That is exactly why it is so terrible. But it is not a loan that is defaulted on, You said, "Isn't that also a loan people cannot pay back?" The answer is no, that is not a loan that cannot be paid back. They are paid back.

I wouldn't recommend them to anyone (I guess if you had starving children or something?), but it is not correct to say it will not be paid back. Cash advance loans really had nothing to do with the discussion anyway, so I don't know why you brought them up, unless it is to prove that "people" are terrible with money, which I would certainly agree with. :laugh:
 
spacecowgirl said:
I think of it as 15 years to pay off an investment that lasts 35 years (+ the interest made on that investment)
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I guess it's a difference in debt tolerance. I haven't quite come to grips with the reality that living as an adult means constantly being in debt, whether its a mortgage on a house, student loans, car loans, your kids student loans you've cosigned... etc.

Even making that list makes me anxious! **** debt...
 
owlegrad said:
That is exactly why it is so terrible. But it is not a loan that is defaulted on, You said, "Isn't that also a loan people cannot pay back?" The answer is no, that is not a loan that cannot be paid back. They are paid back.

I wouldn't recommend them to anyone (I guess if you had starving children or something?), but it is not correct to say it will not be paid back. Cash advance loans really had nothing to do with the discussion anyway, so I don't know why you brought them up, unless it is to prove that "people" are terrible with money, which I would certainly agree with. :laugh:
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I assume it's the high interest rate that forces you to pay it back.

I wonder what the rate of repayment actually is? I saw a older model used car that was for sale in a cash advance store parking lot that looked like a repo... :scared:
 
PharmDstudent said:
I assume it's the high interest rate that forces you to pay it back.

I wonder what the rate of repayment actually is? I saw a older model used car that was for sale in a cash advance store parking lot that looked like a repo... :scared:
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I have never done it myself, but I think you sign an agreement to pay it back as soon as you are paid. So it is not the interest rate that forces you to pay it back (as if people were that smart :rolleyes:) , it is the short nature of the loan. They won't issue the loan unless "you" can prove you will pay it back with your next paycheck (I think).

Anyone here have an experience with this? I imagine not. :laugh:
 
owlegrad said:
I have never done it myself, but I think you sign an agreement to pay it back as soon as you are paid. So it is not the interest rate that forces you to pay it back (as if people were that smart :rolleyes:) , it is the short nature of the loan. They won't issue the loan unless "you" can prove you will pay it back with your next paycheck (I think).

Anyone here have an experience with this? I imagine not. :laugh:
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Yeah, why would a high interest rate "force" someone to pay back a loan? If you aren't planning to pay it back, why would you care if the interest rate was high?

The way they assure repayment is to take a check from the borrower. The check is cashed after the borrower's next payday. Hence the term "payday loans."
 
sA x sKy said:
First of all..I can't believe this thread is still ranting on. Second..haters will always hate. So please, keep hating. I'm not going to comment anymore on the virtues/vices of why or why I may not deserve a BMW. Like I said in one of my earlier posts, it's clearly subjective from ones background.



600-700 rwhp is pretty much impossible on a 335i. The guy who has the most rwhp with a 335i has around 550 and that's with nitrous. A tune can yield 50 hp, add downpipes and you get another 30 or so, then FMIC, exhaust, etc. For around $3000 a 335i can easily outrun an M3 in a straight. My car: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=524277



I don't remember in any of my posts where I was being an "arrogant jackass". I was clearly trying to be modest to make a point. If you think otherwise, please quote me where I was..being an arrogant jackass. And you clearly didn't read my last post. Please read before you start making provoking statements. There was more to it than good grades.
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I didn't mean "you" personally. I meant "you" in the general sense. Perhaps I should have stated "people" shouldn't be arrogant jack asses. I suppose I just see too much of it where I grew up (the disparity between the have and have nots). It can be difficult to see things from a different perspective, especially if you haven't had a lot of exposure to other lifestyles. I apolgize if it came off that way. As I said, I don't care what people do with their money. It is the attitude of entitlement that can rub people the wrong way. Unfortunately, it can trickle over into interactions with patients and some people can hold a lot of prejudices/biases (no matter what "side" you are coming from). I've seen it happen a bit too often.
 
owlegrad said:
I have never done it myself, but I think you sign an agreement to pay it back as soon as you are paid. So it is not the interest rate that forces you to pay it back (as if people were that smart :rolleyes:) , it is the short nature of the loan. They won't issue the loan unless "you" can prove you will pay it back with your next paycheck (I think).

Anyone here have an experience with this? I imagine not. :laugh:
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I don't know... I've always heard people compare them to loan sharks.
 
owlegrad said:
Oh yeah, they are terrible. Just terrible. They prey on the despirate and/or stupid.
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It's predatory lending, loan sharking, whatever you want to call it. Still not seeing the connection between "high interest rate" and "you are forced to pay it back."

BTW, the way these payday loans usually work is that you pay a fee for the loan... say $20 to get an advance of $100 (just making up numbers). So you get your $100 today and the loan places cashes your check for $120 on Friday whe you get paid. You just paid 20% interest for that loan.
 
I wonder if these are similar to title loans. With a title loan you essentially give your car title to a lender with the promise of paying back your cash advance. If you don't the lender gets to repo your car. Essentially they treat your car as a form of collateral.
 
All4MyDaughter said:
It's predatory lending, loan sharking, whatever you want to call it. Still not seeing the connection between "high interest rate" and "you are forced to pay it back."

BTW, the way these payday loans usually work is that you pay a fee for the loan... say $20 to get an advance of $100 (just making up numbers). So you get your $100 today and the loan places cashes your check for $120 on Friday whe you get paid. You just paid 20% interest for that loan.
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Actually it is much worse than that. You are thinking of a simple interest. Extrapolate that out to an annual interest and at 20% you would end up with somewhere around 500% APR. Even loan sharks dont charge that much...
 
Digsbe said:
I wonder if these are similar to title loans. With a title loan you essentially give your car title to a lender with the promise of paying back your cash advance. If you don't the lender gets to repo your car. Essentially they treat your car as a form of collateral.
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There must be different types of loans. And what if you close your checking account before your "payday"?
Just another type of reckless spending...
 
So what is the most affordable way to own a car?

Honda's and Toyota's have high resale values, so I was thinking of a used elantra (or better, the accent). Find the newest/lowest miles, timing belt done, newer tires, via private party, and pay it all off, praying that it doesn't grenade financially for a few years.
 
rxlea said:
I didn't mean "you" personally. I meant "you" in the general sense. Perhaps I should have stated "people" shouldn't be arrogant jack asses. I suppose I just see too much of it where I grew up (the disparity between the have and have nots). It can be difficult to see things from a different perspective, especially if you haven't had a lot of exposure to other lifestyles. I apolgize if it came off that way. As I said, I don't care what people do with their money. It is the attitude of entitlement that can rub people the wrong way. Unfortunately, it can trickle over into interactions with patients and some people can hold a lot of prejudices/biases (no matter what "side" you are coming from). I've seen it happen a bit too often.
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Okay, gotcha. Glad we cleared the air there..
 
This thread has turned into a "I'm morally superior to all of you and here's why" thread and it should be closed. :thumbdown:
 
atpsynthase said:
This thread has turned into a "I'm morally superior to all of you and here's why" thread and it should be closed. :thumbdown:
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I agree. We've already had numerous thread where its been confirmed that I'm the most humble person on the forum. Yet another thread just clogs up the forum.

Use the search function. people.
 
R2pharmD2 said:
The money that professional students get back in loans that they even have the opportunity to blow (after tuition, books, living expenses, etc.) is typically small potatoes compared to the price of a mortgage.
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My mortgage is less than the amount my student loans will be. :scared:
 
owlegrad said:
Anyone here have an experience with this? I imagine not. :laugh:
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Yes, actually. I have gone down with a couple different people as they signed away their next paycheck - the most worthy example I can think of was to pay up front for car repairs to get to work & not get fired, so they could make the paycheck. Also, I used to see these all the time on people's bank accounts & have to explain why their social security is gone on the 5th when they just got paid on the 3rd.

All4MyDaughter said:
The way they assure repayment is to take a check from the borrower. The check is cashed after the borrower's next payday. Hence the term "payday loans."
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Yes, this is correct. However, this assumes they have money in the account to pay it back. If you don't, they will keep trying to cash it - keep trying to cash it - keep trying to cash it, and each time your bank charges an "insufficient funds" fee, even though the loan place knows you don't get your social security check again until the beginning of the month.

I often saw in the neighborhood of $50 for $500 (which is a 120% annualized interest rate), although I saw much higher than that as well.

Once your payday loan doesn't get paid, they will report it as bad debt to places like ChexSystems or Telechecks. I have even seen them show up on credit reports occasionally (although I'm not sure how you go about getting them reported there - probably through the court system).

Out of the literally hundreds of people I've seen using these sorts of loans, less than a handful actually paid them back immediately. (These people were typically banking on a tax refund, or that elusive third check in the month for those of us paid every other week.) Everyone else would take out another loan after the first one was paid - $500 borrowed on the 1st, $550 paid back on the 7th; $500 borrowed on the 8th (to replace the check just gone), $550 paid back on the 14th... Etc. I did see a couple people voluntarily "step down" the amount - $500 borrowed, $550 paid back, $400 borrowed, $440 paid back, etc. A lot of people just had to wait for a windfall and hope they didn't have another catastrophe, though.

This is another "sharing the blame" thing though - 1) people for choosing that option / not having savings / living beyond their means, 2) banks for having the fee structure around returned checks they do, and 3) payday loan places for charging such sharkish amounts & having such practices - seriously, loaning against a social security / fixed income check? Tsk. I have trouble always blaming the person for taking the loan because I have seen good & desperate uses where there was no better option - it's so hard to get out from the bottom, even if everything goes right, and what do you do when it goes wrong?

Er, how did we get on this topic, anyway? :laugh:
 
whatever, man. let people do what they want to. to me, it's kind of a shame people are treating pharmacy less like a career and more of a means to live that way, if you ask me.
 
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