Petition to Address Residency Shortages

[huskerwolverine88]

I thought I'd post this to the forum. There is a petition started by the AAMC to address the residency shortages in the USA so that we can train more physicians. Take a look and sign if you're interested in getting congress to get off of their ass.

http://www.thedoctorshortage.com/pages/shortage/post

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[PL198]

what residency shortage? tons of IMG already match, do you want more IMG to match than AMGs?

 

[PL198]

that comic is so pathetic, did they consult amsa on it?

 

[deleted480308]

there are plenty of spots

 

[goldenboy48]

shortage is good. look what happened to pharmacists.

 

[NickNaylor]

Go away AAMC. Also, perhaps consider whether or not posting threads in the allo forum - particularly ones of a political nature - when you haven't begun medical school is a good idea.

 

[Baller MD]

OP are you an IMG?

 

[TheShowGoesOn]

shortage is good. look what happened to pharmacists.

What happened to the pharmacists?

 

[pd1112]

OP are you an IMG?

He is. edit - or FMG, whatever US citizen at Irish medical school would be.

 

[Lord_Vader]

So the residency shortage isn't going to affect US graduates? Well this is news to me. Guess I should stop worrying then.

 

[W19]

There is always radiology for US grad...

 

[famoussquamous]

There's 0nly a shortage of competitive residency spots in desirable locations. It seems like the vast majority of US MD students end up matching somewhere, and there's still a lot of residency programs that go unfilled

 

[Freddie Mercury]

there's still a lot of residency programs that go unfilled

Agreed. More than 10,000 PGY1 spots were not filled by US Seniors in the 2015 match. Despite all the AMA/AAMC fearmongering about lack of residency spots, too many new allopathic schools opening etc... there are plenty of spots for US allopathic grads. It is true that non-US allo's will probably feel more of a squeeze as the new batch of med schools starts graduating.

 

[GUH]

shortage is good. look what happened to pharmacists.

From my understanding, the Pharmacy residency shortage is much more severe and only a select few are able to actually do a residency. That makes shortage sound bad to me.

 

[famoussquamous]

From my understanding, the Pharmacy residency shortage is much more severe and only a select few are able to actually do a residency. That makes shortage sound bad to me.

At least now as a physician you'll always be in demand SOMEWHERE. Same isn't true for pharmacists and dentists.

 

[GUH]

At least now as a physician you'll always be in demand SOMEWHERE. Same isn't true for pharmacists and dentists.

I would agree if it weren't for the fact that the shortage of physicians in some fields and areas is being used as a justification to give NP's complete autonomy. I'd rather have more physicians than to have NP's practicing independently, not only for the patients' sake but also because an NP with his/her minimal training has a lot less debt and lost opportunity cost to deal with.

 

[Psai]

From my understanding, the Pharmacy residency shortage is much more severe and only a select few are able to actually do a residency. That makes shortage sound bad to me.

Pharmacy residency is a new thing and it's not necessary for practice unlike medical residency

 

[famoussquamous]

I would agree if it weren't for the fact that the shortage of physicians in some fields and areas is being used as a justification to give NP's complete autonomy. I'd rather have more physicians than to have NP's practicing independently, not only for the patients' sake but also because an NP with his/her minimal training has a lot less debt and lost opportunity cost to deal with.

It's a lot cheaper pay midlevels than physicians though. You can usually salary 5+ midlevels for what you'd give a physician. Hospital admins don't see it the way you and I do

 

[qwerty89]

Convert Radiology spots to all other specialties...

Problem solved.

For radiology at least...

 

[Postictal Raiden]

Between ACGME, AOA, AUA, SF match and the military match, there are about 31k pgy-1 positions. That's about 4k more positions needed to to accommodate 2018 US med school grads (MD + DO). There's NO shortage in residency positions!

 

[Shikima]

This is likely to happen when the ABMS gets rid of the MOC requirements.

 

[Psai]

It's a lot cheaper pay midlevels than physicians though. You can usually salary 5+ midlevels for what you'd give a physician. Hospital admins don't see it the way you and I do

How much do you think mid levels and doctors actually make? Also take into account that you have to pay for benefits, retirement and all that

 

[CherryRedDracul]

He is. edit - or FMG, whatever US citizen at Irish medical school would be.

I think he's a premed looking into an Irish medical school through the US Atlantic bridge program.

 

[famoussquamous]

How much do you think mid levels and doctors actually make? Also take into account that you have to pay for benefits, retirement and all that

That question is too broad to correctly answer since there's so much variation between the different fields of medicine and salary. Although I feel confident in saying that midlevel in X specialty doesn't get paid as much as a physician in X specialty, hence why if you're a hospital admin and can replace more physicians with midlevels to save money, you will.

 

[W19]

It would certainly not hurt if they add another 2-3k spots in primary care and psych since there is a shortage in these fields...

 

[Pacna]

It would certainly not hurt if they add another 2-3k spots in primary care and psych since there is a shortage in these fields...

When I am low on water, I usually put the water I have into a bigger cup!

 

[Psai]

That question is too broad to correctly answer since there's so much variation between the different fields of medicine and salary. Although I feel confident in saying that midlevel in X specialty doesn't get paid as much as a physician in X specialty, hence why if you're a hospital admin and can replace more physicians with midlevels to save money, you will.

No it's not. You specifically said that you can salary 5+ midlevels for the cost of one doctor. If you can't back up your statements, then don't say them

 

[famoussquamous]

No it's not. You specifically said that you can salary 5+ midlevels for the cost of one doctor. If you can't back up your statements, then don't say them

Let's say a doctor makes about 300k with everything including benefits
Let's say a midlevel Midlevel makes about 60k with everything including benefits
60 x 5 = 300.


The exact salary figures are probably off but the point is that midlevels work for a fraction of the cost. Plus if I want to be as pedantic as you are I could easily say that you could hire 7 PAs for what you might pay a neurosurgeon.

 

[W19]

Let's say a doctor makes about 300k with everything including benefits
Let's say a midlevel Midlevel makes about 60k with everything including benefits
60 x 5 = 300.

Point is physicians make a lot more than midlevels. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out

95%+ of midlevel make more than 60k/year and I think 50%+ physicians make less than 300k/year.

 

[famoussquamous]

95%+ of midlevel make more than 60k/year and I think 50%+ physicians make less than 300k/year.

Alright here is some salaries:

http://www.cejkasearch.com/compensation-data/mid-level-compensation-data/

For whatever reason I was thinking about nurse assistants not RN's salary. Point made, they still make less than physicians though.

 

[username456789]

For whatever reason I was thinking about nurse assistants not RN's salary. Point made, they still make less than physicians though.

Oh dear. Are you saying that you think RNs are mid-level providers?

 

[famoussquamous]

Oh dear. Are you saying that you think RNs are mid-level providers?

http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/drugreg/practioners/mlp_by_state.pdf

You tell me

 

[PL198]

http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/drugreg/practioners/mlp_by_state.pdf

You tell me

dude an RN isn't a mid level. a mid-level is like a NP or PA. and they don't make 1/5 of what an attending makes.... I feel like avg midlevel makes 1/2 what avg doc makes.

 

[username456789]

http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/drugreg/practioners/mlp_by_state.pdf

You tell me

NPs are RNs. Most RNs are not NPs. Anyone who has any clue what they're talking about in the medical community refers to nurse practitioners as NP if abbreviations are used.

An RN refers to a registered nurse and not a nurse practitioner. It would be like referring to a physician by the abbreviation BS or BA.

How embarrassing for you.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

It would certainly not hurt if they add another 2-3k spots in primary care and psych since there is a shortage in these fields...

I have a better idea. Instead of creating new 2K spots to address the PCP shortage, cut pathology, radiology and anesthesiology positions by half and give these positions to PC fields. Kill two birds with one stone, produce more PCPs while fixing the saturated markets of path/rads/gas.

 

[PL198]

If PCPs are in such high demand why aren't they making more money?

 

[NontradCA]

If PCPs are in such high demand why aren't they making more money?

Because poor people need PC the most and the government puts all the responsibility of personal health on the backs of physicians.

 

[DrBowtie]

If PCPs are in such high demand why aren't they making more money?

RVUs.

 

[GUH]

I have a better idea. Instead of creating new 2K spots to address the PCP shortage, cut pathology, radiology and anesthesiology positions by half and give these positions to PC fields. Kill two birds with one stone, produce more PCPs while fixing the saturated markets of path/rads/gas.

Or how about cut from all fields and turn them into integrated plastics slots. That way all doctors can become wealthy! And PCP's, radiologists, pathologists, and anesthesiologists can command higher salaries.

 

[famoussquamous]

NPs are RNs. Most RNs are not NPs. Anyone who has any clue what they're talking about in the medical community refers to nurse practitioners as NP if abbreviations are used.

An RN refers to a registered nurse and not a nurse practitioner. It would be like referring to a physician by the abbreviation BS or BA.

How embarrassing for you.

Be fair, how many people honestly know about all the different "levels" of nurses? You're a resident so of course you know, but most people probably don't know the difference between a nurse assistant and an APNP.

 

[username456789]

Be fair, how many people honestly know about all the different "levels" of nurses? You're a resident so of course you know, but most people probably don't know the difference between a nurse assistant and an APNP.

I'm the first to assume the worst about the general public, believe me, but you're way off here. I'm being entirely fair. Just admit you were wrong and move on.

 

[pd1112]

I think he's a premed looking into an Irish medical school through the US Atlantic bridge program.

 

[operaman]

I've yet to figure out how exactly anyone plans to "add" so many residency positions. Are there that many programs just dying for more residents if only congress would give them more funding? I know some departments at my school that have funded slots that are not used. Adding slots takes a lot more than just funding; it takes infrastructure. There are some fields that could probably get by with adding a few while not taking away too much from the education, but I wonder just how much federal funding is really the issue. I know that the old story about medicare funding slots/no new spots in X years is easy to tell and understand, but if congress suddenly said "hey, here's an extra 2 billion bucks," I think we'd see a modest increase in slots at best. A number of slots are already institutionally funded or have funding through the VA or other government agencies. If anything, I think institutions would simply use new funds to pay for existing slots and return those institutional funds to their operating budget.

 

[famoussquamous]

I'm the first to assume the worst about the general public, believe me, but you're way off here. I'm being entirely fair. Just admit you were wrong and move on.

I'll admit that I was wrong about how little midlevels get paid, but not that hospital admins would rather hire midlevels to do the work of physicians whenever possible.

 

[username456789]

I'll admit that I was wrong about how little midlevels get paid, but not that hospital admins would rather hire midlevels to do the work of physicians whenever possible.

You were wrong about how much midlevels get paid. You were wrong about who midlevels actually are. You were wrong about RNs' job description.

Congratulating yourself for being right about hospital administrators trying to cut costs by using midlevels is like expecting a standing ovation for putting your shirt on right-side-out in the morning.

 

[famoussquamous]

You were wrong about how much midlevels get paid. You were wrong about who midlevels actually are. You were wrong about RNs' job description.

Congratulating yourself for being right about hospital administrators trying to cut costs by using midlevels is like expecting a standing ovation for putting your shirt on right-side-out in the morning.

Have a bad day at work champ?

I mean if you want to be a jerk about it some would argue that the term "mid-level" is derogatory:

https://www.ena.org/SiteCollectionDocuments/Position Statements/AANPNPConsensusStatement.pdf

 

[username456789]

Have a bad day at work champ?

I'm a Dermatology resident, I don't go to work on the weekends.

I mean if you want to be a jerk about it some would argue that the term "mid-level" is derogatory:

https://www.ena.org/SiteCollectionDocuments/Position Statements/AANPNPConsensusStatement.pdf

This is one of the big problems people have with midlevels (NPs specifically). They often want more than they've earned. They take offense when an appropriate descriptor is used, or when an accurate description of their job is given.

 

[famoussquamous]

I'm a Dermatology resident, I don't go to work on the weekends.

Fair, but the tone in your posts is unnecessary. I don't care if you want to correct someone, there's a way do it without being a jerk. I'm wrong, you're right ,oh wise one. Now lets stop arguing amongst ourselves about midlevels (it's what they want us to do)

This is one of the big problems doctors have with midlevels (NPs specifically). They often want more than they've earned. They take offense when an appropriate descriptor is used, or when an accurate description of their job is given.

Fixed. I agree with you, but lets not act like most people aren't on their side.

 

[cbrons]

One thing I don't understand is why there are residency programs filled solely with foreign med grads.

Y?

 

[deleted500612]

One thing I don't understand is why there are residency programs filled solely with foreign med grads.

Y?

Because very few AMGs are willing to go into primary care due to low compensation and the spots need to be filled from somewhere. Since there is no shortage of IMG/FMGs who are willing to work for these relatively low wages, this keeps PCP salaries down and perpetuates the trend of AMGs overlooking these low-paying specialties.