Pet Peeves about Interview Day

[coleus blumei]

It's towards the end of the interview season, and there I wish I could tell the Program Directors what I hated about the way they set up the interview day. As far as I know, only one program (this is in the midwest) asks applicants for feedback about how their interview experience was, and I was grateful for the chance to give my input.

My purpose in starting this thread is partly to vent and partly hoping that PDs will read this and find out how we feel about some of the things they make us do.

I'll start:

1. Tours of the hospital that last more than 30 minutes. The worst offender in my book is a program that toured us around many buildings for an hour. In addition, all throughout the day, they made us walk outside when the temp was in the teens and there was snow on the ground, multiple times. For people who were not forewarned, for people who were wearing skirts, people who were wearing heels, people with coats not warm enough/not enough winter gear on hand, this was incredibly annoying.

2. No breakfast... or no food in the designated wating area all morning. I woke up at 5 am to be in your institution by 7. Even though I had breakfast before leaving my house, by 10 or 11 am I will be hungry, my stomach will be growling, and I really wish you were considerate enough to keep food on hand while applicants were waiting for their individual interviews.

That's all I can think of for now, but I wish programs thought about these things for the applicants.

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[neurologist]

It's towards the end of the interview season, and there I wish I could tell the Program Directors what I hated about the way they set up the interview day. As far as I know, only one program (this is in the midwest) asks applicants for feedback about how their interview experience was, and I was grateful for the chance to give my input.

My purpose in starting this thread is partly to vent and partly hoping that PDs will read this and find out how we feel about some of the things they make us do.

I'll start:

1. Tours of the hospital that last more than 30 minutes. The worst offender in my book is a program in Ohio that toured us around many buildings for an hour. In addition, all throughout the day, they made us walk outside when the temp was in the teens and there was snow on the ground, to go from the interview location to the main hospital, then to another building for lunch, etc. For people who were not forewarned, for people who were wearing skirts, people who were wearing heels, people with coats not warm enough/not enough winter gear on hand, this was incredibly annoying.

2. No breakfast... or no food in the designated wating area all morning. I woke up at 5 am to be in your institution by 7. Even though I had breakfast before leaving my house, by 10 or 11 am I will be hungry, my stomach will be growling, and I really wish you were considerate enough to keep food on hand while applicants were waiting for their individual interviews.

That's all I can think of for now, but I wish programs thought about these things for the applicants.

These are not unintentional oversights or bad planning. They are very carefully designed tests of your resilience.

Tired because you had to tour around for an hour? What happens when you have to spend a 16-hour shift sprinting from the OR to ER to clinic? In separate buildings. Separated by cold icy weather. Wearing nothing but scrubs. Programs want toughness, not sissy whiners.

Hungry at 10 a.m.? What do you think your stomach is gonna feel like when you're an intern and don't have time to eat, drink or piss from 5 a.m. to 8 p.m? You'll praise God if you have 30 spare seconds to scarf down a stale PopTart from an overpriced vending machine (and I recommend the frosted cherry flavor, by the way . . .).

You are weak my friend, weak. And by observing you on interview day, now the programs have pegged you for the weakling that you are . . .

 

[Fencer]

I take a different view. I think that anonymous feedback should be required after interviews. A 360 evaluation of the process and the impression you got of their program. The problem would then be that some PDs will be able to conceal the glaring issues or know who leaked particular problems.

When I interviewed at a top 10 program off-cycle (1 month earlier) almost 20 years ago, I was left waiting in the library. The program had a brand new chair of department. The chief resident happen to walked into the library and told me after a little afable chat, that he would not have come to this residency if he was able to choose again. Years later, I collaborated with a faculty member of that institution who would have been in my class. We could have been residents together. He loved his education, etc. The resident who I had spoken with during my interview had been promised a faculty appointment, and the new chair with a greater scientific viewpoint had elected not to recruit him.

The experience that coleus blumei had walking in the snow should tell you a little about how the program is organized. Perhaps, things fall through the crack more often than in other places.

 

[doctorlarry]

These are not unintentional oversights or bad planning. They are very carefully designed tests of your resilience.

Tired because you had to tour around for an hour? What happens when you have to spend a 16-hour shift sprinting from the OR to ER to clinic? In separate buildings. Separated by cold icy weather. Wearing nothing but scrubs. Programs want toughness, not sissy whiners.

Hungry at 10 a.m.? What do you think your stomach is gonna feel like when you're an intern and don't have time to eat, drink or piss from 5 a.m. to 8 p.m? You'll praise God if you have 30 spare seconds to scarf down a stale PopTart from an overpriced vending machine (and I recommend the frosted cherry flavor, by the way . . .).

You are weak my friend, weak. And by observing you on interview day, now the programs have pegged you for the weakling that you are . . .

Tend to agree with neurologist on this one. I often find it curious that some med students are so interested in having bkfst or lunch. We'll be in the middle of rounding in the ICU on a critical pt and the MS3 or 4 will ask for a break for lunch. Some students just don't get it. They seem to present themselves with a sense of entitlement. You're viewpoint will certainly change as you move through residency and without really thinking about it, someday you'll realize you had to skip lunch every day for the last week. Students are so fixated on basic comforts that residents and attendings have basically forgotten about because they are so fixated on their job, patient care, actually carrying responsibility, etc. Don't get me wrong, I love med students, but a piece of advice...plan ahead for some hardships guys.

 

[medsRus]

Tend to agree with neurologist on this one. I often find it curious that some med students are so interested in having bkfst or lunch. We'll be in the middle of rounding in the ICU on a critical pt and the MS3 or 4 will ask for a break for lunch. Some students just don't get it. They seem to present themselves with a sense of entitlement. You're viewpoint will certainly change as you move through residency and without really thinking about it, someday you'll realize you had to skip lunch every day for the last week. Students are so fixated on basic comforts that residents and attendings have basically forgotten about because they are so fixated on their job, patient care, actually carrying responsibility, etc. Don't get me wrong, I love med students, but a piece of advice...plan ahead for some hardships guys.

Please, neuro residents spend a disproportionate amount of time in the hospital coffee area than other residents. Also, when you invite us to come for a 7:30 AM interview, offer something to eat/drink... Come on, we put on our best suits, travel countless miles, sometimes pay for hotel rooms, and the least you can do is provide a some food/snacks/drinks. Of course, we can get breakfast elsewhere -- but I hate shelling out 12 bucks for a fruit bowl at a hotel.

 

[coleus blumei]

I mentioned walking in snow because a few people almost fell down in the ice. Who wants to get injured while on an interview? And maybe these are tests of resilience, but I tend to think of them as poor planning on the part of the program.

When I am on my rotations, I wear gym shoes and I have a powerbar in my pocket which I can eat while walking or while writing notes. Hospitals always have vending machines, but not all interview sites have them for applicants to run to.

But my point is, this is Interview Day, not a regular hospital rotation day. Applicants are in unfamiliar places, and programs basically have us hostage for a day, and the way we are treated does affect our view of the programs.

 

[typhoonegator]

Please, neuro residents spend a disproportionate amount of time in the hospital coffee area than other residents.

That might be true where you are, but that is not a viable generalization. The neurosurgery residents at my program often felt sorry for us, and they hated rotating on the ED consult service because of the volume. And those guys and gals live in the hospital. Almost literally.

Remember too that stuff like meals and arranged transportation costs money. Interview dinners and the like are huge expenses for programs, and they have to do this stuff every week for 2-3 months. It adds up. Hospitals are running leaner than ever, and expecting more revenue from their departments. I would rather see money spent on residency development than feeding applicants, and I would hope you applicants could understand that, since you'll be in that position in a few short months.

 

[PhakeDoc]

I
The worst offender in my book is a program that toured us around many buildings for an hour. In addition, all throughout the day, they made us walk outside when the temp was in the teens and there was snow on the ground, multiple times. For people who were not forewarned, for people who were wearing skirts, people who were wearing heels, people with coats not warm enough/not enough winter gear on hand, this was incredibly annoying.

I believe (based on your post before it was edited) that I interviewed at this very same program, though while there was no snow on the ground, it was 14 deg F outside. AND, one of the faculty took us outside and talked to us outside for nearly 25 mins stating that the cold wouldn't kill us and was amused at us shivering. Of course, none of us had our coats on.

 

[eforest]

I can't stand tours that go on an on. Sure, there are many times that stamina is required in medicine, but an hour and a half tour of a hospital and its surrounding buildings is just a tedious addition to a long day. I think that there are many times in medicine when things are made more difficult than they need to be. Sure, you can't just drop everything and grab lunch just because your hungry, with no regard to your clinical duties. You can't go on a coffee break in the middle of a surgery.

But, I find it frustrating when students are made to endure less than ideal conditions because of the thought that we need to have "stamina." Being forced to stand (not sit, not allowed to sit, even though I'm not scrubbed in and have no view of the field what-so-ever) at the back of the OR for hours and hours without food/ drink is pointless. It would be one thing if I could actually see the surgical field, but just forcing me to stand and waist my time, is pointless and stupid.

On that same vein, parts of the interview day that are unpleasant shouldn't be maintained just to show how much an applicant can endure. Having to stand out in the cold with no coat is obnoxious.

 

[llogg]

As a resident who has given many of these tours let me offer a slightly different perspective.

If you got an abbreviated tour would you not be left wondering what they didn't show you and why? The tour is long because the program is trying to make sure you have all the information you might want to make your decision. I would suggest that applicants should beware the program that does not attempt to show all the facilities, just as I would beware the program that limits access to current residents.

I should point out that my program offers home-made cinnamon rolls throughout the day. There should be no complaining about being hungry on our interview days.

 

[buckley]

That might be true where you are, but that is not a viable generalization. The neurosurgery residents at my program often felt sorry for us, and they hated rotating on the ED consult service because of the volume. And those guys and gals live in the hospital. Almost literally.

Remember too that stuff like meals and arranged transportation costs money. Interview dinners and the like are huge expenses for programs, and they have to do this stuff every week for 2-3 months. It adds up. Hospitals are running leaner than ever, and expecting more revenue from their departments. I would rather see money spent on residency development than feeding applicants, and I would hope you applicants could understand that, since you'll be in that position in a few short months.

I know....I'm like---which program is this which has neuro residents spending time at the coffeeshop?maybe you're seeing the people on elective? ... Most internal medicine residents who rotate with us tell us they never knew how hard our hours are. yes, my friend, neurology is VAST. and "dumb" consults in neurology are always excusable... and we run for every stroke pager activation, while cardiology swaggers as internal medicine handles the frontline.

You *could* always give your feedback to the PD...of course, there's no telling if you do want to match there...might even impress him for being such an observant and pro-active applicant...but i wouldn't advise it

 

[JaSam]

I can't stand tours that go on an on. Sure, there are many times that stamina is required in medicine, but an hour and a half tour of a hospital and its surrounding buildings is just a tedious addition to a long day. I think that there are many times in medicine when things are made more difficult than they need to be. Sure, you can't just drop everything and grab lunch just because your hungry, with no regard to your clinical duties. You can't go on a coffee break in the middle of a surgery.

But, I find it frustrating when students are made to endure less than ideal conditions because of the thought that we need to have "stamina." Being forced to stand (not sit, not allowed to sit, even though I'm not scrubbed in and have no view of the field what-so-ever) at the back of the OR for hours and hours without food/ drink is pointless. It would be one thing if I could actually see the surgical field, but just forcing me to stand and waist my time, is pointless and stupid.

On that same vein, parts of the interview day that are unpleasant shouldn't be maintained just to show how much an applicant can endure. Having to stand out in the cold with no coat is obnoxious.

i gotta agree with ya there buddy. surgery for those not interested in it was probably one of the most worthless rotations ever. You can't see anything, can't do anything,and yet have to look interested and pretend that you can see what's going on. I learned that I can stand on my feet for 8 hours straight, not eat, and still not pass out. That's basically what I got outta that rotation.

 

[JaSam]

i'll add a couple to the list.

1. when theres a 2 hr gap in between each interview and your just sitting there.

2. places that have interviews at the end of the day after all the senseless touring and grand rounds and blah blah blah.

3. when the interviewer hasn't even taken the effort to read or even glance over your file before the interview so your left answering questions like "so what college did you go to again?" and "So your from what city again?"

 

[AlternateSome1]

Many interviews are closed file, meaning interviewers CAN'T look at any information about you. This helps to rectify the differences between candidates with good numbers who interview poorly and more average candidates, stats-wise, who interview well by not biasing the interviewer at the start. Most interviews are less about who you are as a student and more about finding who you are as a person, how you might fit into the milieu of the program, and answering your questions about the program.

 

[95439]

Many interviews are closed file, meaning interviewers CAN'T look at any information about you. This helps to rectify the differences between candidates with good numbers who interview poorly and more average candidates, stats-wise, who interview well by not biasing the interviewer at the start. Most interviews are less about who you are as a student and more about finding who you are as a person, how you might fit into the milieu of the program, and answering your questions about the program.

Although I think the original post is ridiculous (come on dude, just suck it up), I do find it funny that residents jump on here in defense of what they were no doubt complaining about themselves on the interview trail.

 

[coleus blumei]

yes, our online lives would be so much more productive if we just went back to discussing what are the Top 5 neurology programs in the country!

just kidding!

but seriously, i just thought, if there is room for improvement (for the interview day), why not look into it?

 

[doctorlarry]

Although I think the original post is ridiculous (come on dude, just suck it up), I do find it funny that residents jump on here in defense of what they were no doubt complaining about themselves on the interview trail.

We're all whiners every step of the way. I agree it sucks to be a med student interviewing, but get ready guys...

 

[Rogue Synapse]

yes, our online lives would be so much more productive if we just went back to discussing what are the Top 5 neurology programs in the country!

I believe I have the Best Top 5 Neurology Program list.

 

[lanzarlaluna]

I believe I have the Best Top 5 Neurology Program list.

I see what you did there.

 

[AlternateSome1]

Although I think the original post is ridiculous (come on dude, just suck it up), I do find it funny that residents jump on here in defense of what they were no doubt complaining about themselves on the interview trail.

My pet peeve was actually having 5 consecutive interviews that began with, "So, do you have any questions for me?"

 

[T2 FLAIR]

We're all whiners every step of the way. I agree it sucks to be a med student interviewing, but get ready guys...

Yes, yes, we get it. We're spoiled rotten 4th years who have no clue how much misery and suffering is in store for us in the coming #$*! storm that is residency. Thank you for reminding us.

And I agree with the above poster. Something inside me dies every time I hear those eight dreaded words, "Do you have any more questions for me?"