Perusing a Possible New Path

[Rogue42]

Hey guys,

First time poster in this section. I'll give you all a brief description of why I am here; originally a pre-PA undergrad turned pre-med graduate student, I am still in the process of trying to figure everything out. I am currently in the cycle for med school (though this is certainly not going to work out - at least for this cycle), putting me in the position to really re-evaluate. One of the physicians that I currently work for asked me, "Have you ever thought of Podiatry school? They are doctors who specialize on the lower extremity and foot."

Now up to that point, the answer was "no." Never thought of it, not once. But after he said that, I began looking into it. I discovered that it could really be an option for me, but I really would like more information about the profession from you guys. I know, ultimately, that I need to shadow, but I do not feel like I can ask these questions to a practicing podiatrist. Please feel free to direct me best you can, and please do not roast me as I am asking in the most genuine manner.

1. What made you choose podiatry as opposed to any other medical profession? What got you interested / involved?
2. I would have to travel very far for school since there are only 9. Did any of you encounter that problem and how did you feel about it?
3. I have looked up attrition/graduation rates, and to be honest, they kind of scare me. Is there any reason that they are that much lower as opposed to medical school attrition / graduation rates? Or is this information just unfounded and I am worrying about nothing?
4. While I am not choosing my career based on salary, I also do not want to pull $200,000 out for loans to not be able to pay it back. I have looked up the salary for podiatrists, but every website I go to has a different median listed. For example, one school's website list the median somewhere in the 180K, but Bloomberg lists it as 115k. That is a very far range and large discrepancy for a "median" salary. So, if any of you can help me make sense of that and/or give me a better estimate then that would be great.
5. What is practice life like? On call? What is the career outlook in general?
6. How do podiatrist compete with Orthopedist? I have searched these forums, and it appears that when someone asks this question, they are treated fairly poorly and never gets a clear answer. Again, I am asking genuinely.

EDIT: Also, if anyone could tell me how the cycle works. I pulled up the central application system, and it looks like all of the school's deadlines are in June. So when does the cycle start, end, and what is considered a late application?
Thanks guys!

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[Weirdy]

1. Stats were not competitive enough for MD/DO. Considered PA, OD, PT, DPM. Shadowed and couldn't shake DPM feeling.

2. Had to pack everything up and move across multiple states. Went easier than I thought. Make a logistics plan and stick to it. Never had an issue. Same with classmates who had to move.

3. Reasons students flunk out that I've personally seen: Family/personal/out of their control issues affecting class work, huge red flags (unprofessional, IDGAF attitudes breaking policies, lost interest in podiatric medicine), didn't work hard enough (didn't put in the time to study). Was a very weak student coming in. Got down the groove of things 1st semester. So far passing everything with spare time to volunteer, research, enjoy life.

4. Have seen anything from a private practice associate making 75k to hospital employee making 200k+ to multiple private practice owner making 500k+. This will vary by location, your business acumen, where you choose to live, what deals you choose to take, connections you make, residency program training. Literally too many variables to counter. If you are looking for a quick and easy number, you will not find it.

5. Not there yet. Pay attention when you shadow. Shadow multiple docs and ask them.

6. Not there yet. Have heard they will toss us cases they don't like. Have heard in rural areas with little to no ortho FA you will do everything. Depends where you go (ortho dominated or not), the people you work with (are they dinguses?), what the hospital prefers (do they bias against podiatry?).

Cycle: Cycle ends June. Have seen interviewees come in during May and still get in. If your stats are high, you could apply now, get interviews, and be accepted before June.

 

[de Ribas]

Hey guys,

First time poster in this section. I'll give you all a brief description of why I am here; originally a pre-PA undergrad turned pre-med graduate student, I am still in the process of trying to figure everything out. I am currently in the cycle for med school (though this is certainly not going to work out - at least for this cycle), putting me in the position to really re-evaluate. One of the physicians that I currently work for asked me, "Have you ever thought of Podiatry school? They are doctors who specialize on the lower extremity and foot."

Now up to that point, the answer was "no." Never thought of it, not once. But after he said that, I began looking into it. I discovered that it could really be an option for me, but I really would like more information about the profession from you guys. I know, ultimately, that I need to shadow, but I do not feel like I can ask these questions to a practicing podiatrist. Please feel free to direct me best you can, and please do not roast me as I am asking in the most genuine manner.

1. What made you choose podiatry as opposed to any other medical profession? What got you interested / involved?
2. I would have to travel very far for school since there are only 9. Did any of you encounter that problem and how did you feel about it?
3. I have looked up attrition/graduation rates, and to be honest, they kind of scare me. Is there any reason that they are that much lower as opposed to medical school attrition / graduation rates? Or is this information just unfounded and I am worrying about nothing?
4. While I am not choosing my career based on salary, I also do not want to pull $200,000 out for loans to not be able to pay it back. I have looked up the salary for podiatrists, but every website I go to has a different median listed. For example, one school's website list the median somewhere in the 180K, but Bloomberg lists it as 115k. That is a very far range and large discrepancy for a "median" salary. So, if any of you can help me make sense of that and/or give me a better estimate then that would be great.
5. What is practice life like? On call? What is the career outlook in general?
6. How do podiatrist compete with Orthopedist? I have searched these forums, and it appears that when someone asks this question, they are treated fairly poorly and never gets a clear answer. Again, I am asking genuinely.

EDIT: Also, if anyone could tell me how the cycle works. I pulled up the central application system, and it looks like all of the school's deadlines are in June. So when does the cycle start, end, and what is considered a late application?
Thanks guys!

Most of these questions I have asked podiatric physicians I have shadowed. They were very open to answer them.

Cycle starts first Wednesday of August (if I remember correctly) and ends until seats are filled up. Schools state their deadlines on their websites and AACPMAS might too.

#2. Most students I met during interviews, were interviewing at all 9 schools. Most DO/MD applicants apply to about 25 schools on average. Not uncommon to see more apps. Most go to all invites they get unless they are strong applicants, confident and get in their top choice early on. So, attending all 9 schools is not a big deal.

Since cycle is longer, you dont have to apply to all 9 right away if you dont have so much money and time. Apply to your top 3-5? If you get in, no need to apply to others. If you don't get into those 3-5, apply to the rest.

3. I have looked up attrition/graduation rates, and to be honest, they kind of scare me. Is there any reason that they are that much lower as opposed to medical school attrition / graduation rates? Or is this information just unfounded and I am worrying about nothing?

Where did you look this up? Is this recent information. I have heard only of Kent or maybe one other school that had lower graduation rates.

Average 4-year graduation rate across all DO schools is like 80%, if I am correct. Attrition is about 10-12%. We have looked at average numbers of all DPM programs and it is about the same. In fact my current DPM class didn't lose anyone yet, but DOs did for sure.

 

[de Ribas]

Looks like you have applied to quite a few DO schools and have had or have interviews coming up. You might still get accepted or get pulled from waitlist with your stats. Good Luck!

 

[Rogue42]

Looks like you have applied to quite a few DO schools and have had or have interviews coming up. You might still get accepted or get pulled from waitlist with your stats. Good Luck!

I applied to only four, and have only one interview coming. The interview itself is so late that it will mostly be for a waitlist spot. Thank you though! I appreciate your response to my post and your wish of luck!

 

[de Ribas]

I applied to only four, and have only one interview coming. The interview itself is so late that it will mostly be for a waitlist spot. Thank you though! I appreciate your response to my post and your wish of luck!

I would encourage you to shadow DPM. If podiatry is only a backup, I think you should apply early next cycle to more DO schools. IMO, your unsuccessful cycle is due to October app and only 4 schools. You should get much more DO love next cycle if you apply early.

DPM is great path IMO though, but you have to make sure you will like it. You will be limited to this one specialty.

 

[HarmonicConvergence]

Attrition rates are only slightly below md/do. Graduation rates and match rates are on par with MD/DO

Salary will have a huge range. Podiatry is still evolving. Have some podiatrist that never did a residency practicing and some that have done high surgical with a fellowship. Lowest coming out of residency is around 120K for associate and up to high 200's for hospital/MSG. It honestly depends on you, and your drive.

None of us students no what real life practice is like. We can only speculate. But I hear it really depends on what kind of situation you get yourself into post residency.

Will always be competition with ortho money is involved. But F/A ortho is probs the least popular fellowship for orthos bc f/a surgeries pay the least compared to other ortho surgeries and they have to compete with us. I think it will just depends on the dynamic of the area or group or hospital you work in.

 

[I Drink Riesling]

Welcome to the Podiatry Forums!

1. I chose podiatry over other medical professions for its breadth and depth in a regional part of the body. Podiatry has a wide tempo range; one day you can be doing an ingrown toenail and the next day you can be doing a total ankle replacement (TAR). I was initially pre-med who was about to do a post-bacc to repair the blemishes on my transcript, but I learned about podiatry through various means. I shadowed three different private practice associates, received positive feedback and here I am!

2. Geographical location was not an issue for me. I lived in NYC prior to this cycle and I genuinely prefer colder weather because I love dressing up, so I have no problem moving to Philadelphia this summer from Florida.

3. Attrition/graduation rates show trend, but they do not show causality. Some people who withdraw from school gained acceptance to a different professional school, found out too late that podiatry was not for them, and certain emergencies simply made it too difficult for them to perform. If the latter occurs, they may be recycled into the next class. Here, it is important to focus as much as you can on your own performance and less on your peers.

4. Your question about salary is a practical one to ask. Different websites report different numbers because their data pools may differ from one another. An average, or median figure may include all practicing podiatrists, meaning it may include residents, part-time chip and clippers, and full-time high collecting attendings. One podiatrist I shadowed told me that the figure I looked up may be on the lower end; if you can perform many different procedures, then you have the possibility of collecting more revenue. If you want some kind of estimate, one interviewed podiatrist gave the range of $150k to $250k.

5. Practice life is what you make of it. A majority of podiatrists in my hometown are in private practice and work the standard 9-5 with no call. However, it may be regional as other podiatrists do experience call if they are associated with a hospital or an orthopedic group. As for outlook, I am not worried about not finding a job as long as I can do what I need to do (do well in school, pass boards, have a good personality in externships/interviews, match into a good program, etc.). The podiatrists I shadowed have a positive outlook on the as diabetes continues to run rampant and baby boomers are getting older.

6. In my opinion, podiatrists are not seen as inferior by orthopedics, but are seen as fierce competition. Foot and ankle ortho is the least popular fellowship as prospective fellows can make more money doing hand, sports med, or spine. A podiatrist will have done more foot and ankle cases in their residency than a fellow has done in their one year program. The case where podiatry and f/a ortho competing against each other differs from area to area; at Temple and parts in Miami, ortho shares trauma with podiatry, but in other regions, hospitals will not allow podiatry to perform powerful cases like TARs, or complex fractures. Hopefully, podiatrists will have more access to these cases and other privileges in the future. They are a highly valuable provider with highly valuable skills and I look forward to starting school this Fall!

 

[Rogue42]

I would encourage you to shadow DPM. If podiatry is only a backup, I think you should apply early next cycle to more DO schools. IMO, your unsuccessful cycle is due to October app and only 4 schools. You should get much more DO love next cycle if you apply early.

DPM is great path IMO though, but you have to make sure you will like it. You will be limited to this one specialty.

You definitely did some homework on me. Personally, my MCAT is lower than what I posted, so I think that also played into it. I am retaking on April 13th. However, I do not think Podiatry would be a back up - more that I did not think of it as an option until presented. I will have to shadow to determine if it is truly for me or not. Then, I will make a decision. This post was just to gain further understanding and insight.

 

[J29622]

Hey guys,

First time poster in this section. I'll give you all a brief description of why I am here; originally a pre-PA undergrad turned pre-med graduate student, I am still in the process of trying to figure everything out. I am currently in the cycle for med school (though this is certainly not going to work out - at least for this cycle), putting me in the position to really re-evaluate. One of the physicians that I currently work for asked me, "Have you ever thought of Podiatry school? They are doctors who specialize on the lower extremity and foot."

Now up to that point, the answer was "no." Never thought of it, not once. But after he said that, I began looking into it. I discovered that it could really be an option for me, but I really would like more information about the profession from you guys. I know, ultimately, that I need to shadow, but I do not feel like I can ask these questions to a practicing podiatrist. Please feel free to direct me best you can, and please do not roast me as I am asking in the most genuine manner.

1. What made you choose podiatry as opposed to any other medical profession? What got you interested / involved?
2. I would have to travel very far for school since there are only 9. Did any of you encounter that problem and how did you feel about it?
3. I have looked up attrition/graduation rates, and to be honest, they kind of scare me. Is there any reason that they are that much lower as opposed to medical school attrition / graduation rates? Or is this information just unfounded and I am worrying about nothing?
4. While I am not choosing my career based on salary, I also do not want to pull $200,000 out for loans to not be able to pay it back. I have looked up the salary for podiatrists, but every website I go to has a different median listed. For example, one school's website list the median somewhere in the 180K, but Bloomberg lists it as 115k. That is a very far range and large discrepancy for a "median" salary. So, if any of you can help me make sense of that and/or give me a better estimate then that would be great.
5. What is practice life like? On call? What is the career outlook in general?
6. How do podiatrist compete with Orthopedist? I have searched these forums, and it appears that when someone asks this question, they are treated fairly poorly and never gets a clear answer. Again, I am asking genuinely.

EDIT: Also, if anyone could tell me how the cycle works. I pulled up the central application system, and it looks like all of the school's deadlines are in June. So when does the cycle start, end, and what is considered a late application?
Thanks guys!

I'm a a 4th year podiatry student and currently going on externships. I'll answer your questions to the best of my ability.

1. I wanted to do podiatry because I liked the idea of having a mix of clinic and surgery in addition to the certainty of knowing your specialty. The latter is a double edged sword given if you decide you don't like podiatry later on, you can't change it. A surgical sub-specialty should you go the MD/DO route is almost always among the most competitive specialties, and no-one is a sure shot of getting it.

2. I traveled across the country. I'm from the west coast and traveled all the way to Ohio for school. You get homesick every now and then, but you're busy enough that you don't think about it too much. Plus, you'll have new friends at your school to keep you grounded as well.

3. I wouldn't worry too much. If you apply yourself, you'll pass. My school is reputed for having a higher attrition rate, and I had no problem passing all my classes and getting through with a significantly above average GPA. I wasn't studying 20 hours a day either - I was still able to have a life.

4. Starting out, salaries seem to be around $150,000 on average. Breaking $200,000 is becoming fairly with modern podiatric training and a few years of experience. MGMA salary surveys which are a gold standard for hospital contract negotiations have podiatrists making 250-280k a year.

5. Practice life is completely variable. Some hospital podiatrists I know who do primarily surgery put in lots of hours. Others who do mostly conservative care often have more regular hours. You have some control over this.

6. It's a mixed bag. In some areas, they are at each other's throat and the situation is ugly. In others, such as the Kaiser system on the west coast, they have a good relationship with minimal tension. There is no clear answer - it's very location dependent.