People worried about the pharmacy job outlook need to stop worrying

[The Recoverer]

Ok before I go on, let me just mention this: I am already aware of the diploma mills and pharmacy saturation in certain areas. So you do not have to try and explain those to me.

Take a quick read of this federal website before continuing on:


The job outlook is not as grim as some people on this forum claims it to be. Here are a few reasons:

1. With the baby boomer population continuing to rise, more senior citizens will be needing our assistance.

2. The role of pharmacists are rapidly expanding towards a collaborative nature with physicians, nurses and other health professionals. Pharmacists now and in the future will deal with more than just medications, but also overall health and wellness as well as health counseling. Therefore, this expanding role means that there will be MORE areas of healthcare that pharmacists can be involved in. More involvement = more opportunities = more jobs.

3. Believe it or not, immigration from other countries, especially China, Korea, Vietnam, and India is actually on the rise. The undergraduate institution in my town admits approximately 5,600 international students every year. international students are away from their families and the stress of school and work takes a toll on them. They often get sick just as much as senior citizens and children. They also all need immunizations and new drug regimens from moving to a new country. Therefore, they actually represent a strong patient base for pharmacists.

3. A job is easy to find if you choose to make it easy to find. it is very true that the market is getting ever so competitive, but no worries. This doesn't mean you cannot do something about it. You have all the tools available to you to make yourself a more competitive applicant to a position. Instead of sitting around worrying about the job market, you can join more professional organizations, set up a strong network with pharmacists/preceptors while in school, and really take the time and commitment to do well in your courses. What I am trying to say here is that school is not only about pass your classes, but more importantly, about grabbing EVERY SINGLE OPPORTUNITY WITHIN YOUR REACH, to become more involved and BUFF up your resume.





TL;DR: Stop bitchin and do work! Good luck!

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[BMBiology]

This report was first published before 2008... You know before the Great Recession. Things have changed since then. I think you are just in denial.

 

[The Recoverer]

This report was first published before 2008... You know before the Great Recession. Things have changed since then. I think you are just in denial.

"Publish Date: Thursday, March 29, 2012" bottom of the page.

Bureau of Labor Statistics, U.S. Department of Labor, Occupational Outlook Handbook, 2012-13 Edition, Pharmacists,
on the Internet at http://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/pharmacists.htm (visited March 11, 2013).

Not sure where you are getting 2008.

 

[BMBiology]

I said first published. That was when this study was done. They are basing their numbers on what they calculated before 2008

 

[FlavyFlav]

This report was first published before 2008... You know before the Great Recession. Things have changed since then. I think you are just in denial.

They are using 2010 jobs data...

 

[PharmtoCS]

They are using 2010 jobs data...

That does not even take into account the number of schools that have opened or graduated their first class since then.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using SDN Mobile

 

[The Recoverer]

They said the number of jobs will be growing. Although is is slightly affected by more graduates, not by much though.

 

[FlavyFlav]

That does not not even take into account the number of schools that have opened or graduated their first class since then.

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I agree with this part. This report is not looking at the glut of new pharmacists being introduced year after year, I imagine a 2013 report would show a downward trend, but that's just based off my anecdotal experience.

 

[PreciousRoy]

I think the idea is that you should worry about it. That doesn't mean you have to abandon all of your life plans because suddenly the field is changing. ****ty schools will produce ****ty grads, do what you can with the hand your given and the key is to minimize the amount of loans you take out because that follows you for the rest of your life.

 

[Corpseman]

Is the outlook as doom and gloom as some try to portay? No.

Should you be at least a little bit worried? Absolutely.

 

[The Recoverer]

Is the outlook as doom and gloom as some try to portay? No.

Should you be at least a little bit worried? Absolutely.

the reason I posted this is because it seems like an increasingly number of people on here are thinking about giving up pharmacy because they are afraid they can't find a job. yet they want to become a pharmacist. WE CANNOT SEE 4 years down to the road lol.

Sadly most people portray it as gloom and doom.

 

[radio frequency]

...because governments always have a great track record of predicting supply and demand...I mean, just look at the USSR!

To be fair, I'm not here to say "pharmacy is a terrible job and the market will never support all of you when you graduate!". I am all for balanced information though. There is, absolutely, a lot about pharmacy that should rightfully scare people when they look at the job market. There is the possibility of getting good jobs after graduation. It's not likely everybody taking out $100 - $300 k in loans will get these good jobs, however. That is concerning, and should at least make you think about your future a bit.

For what it's worth, I haven't yet met pharmacy students I felt didn't belong in school. Before getting to p-school, I assumed it would be easy to pick those out that wouldn't have a job upon graduation. This absolutely hasn't been the case. Give that some thought. If we all deserve to be in school, who among us won't get jobs when we finish? There are some students with stronger skill sets that will help them, but overall, the students I see are bright, talented, and hard-working. Students are really going to have to create their own jobs upon graduation. The question is, how much does the healthcare market (ie, private citizens) need or want us?

 

[Panliz]

yes, the market is saturated. Everybody quit please. Leave room for others. For god's sake, if you really like pharmacy, why even bother.

 

[The Recoverer]

yes, the market is saturated. Everybody quit please. Leave room for others. For god's sake, if you really like pharmacy, why even bother.

 

[PharmtoCS]

yes, the market is saturated. Everybody quit please. Leave room for others. For god's sake, if you really like money and a stable job, why even bother.

Corrected.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using SDN Mobile

 

[metrarx]

It's always the pre-pharmacy students who pull the BLS data. It's never the P3/P4s who are getting closer to job hunting.

You have to be real with yourself. The number of students graduating is only going to increase every year. I don't see significant changes in the retail world anytime soon. And this is where most of the students will end up. Looks like Walgreens is trying to jump on board the ACO bandwagon along with CVS so that may create some opportunity but not nearly enough to guarantee jobs for everyone.

I have talked to P4s from different schools who say they are worried about the job market because the job fair at their school is getting smaller every year. I have talked to interns at RA and grocery chains who say only a very limited number of job offers went out.

BLS data may have been somewhat accurate if there was not an aggressive proliferation of pharmacy schools but now that data is truly meaningless

 

[awval999]

Notice that this crap is never posted in the Pharmacy forum because it would get laughed at.

Edit: It's not that there aren't jobs. There are. And good jobs even. Just like law. Every year the Big14 law schools send new grads to big jobs in the City. Every year a number of lawyers become millionaires. But--- for the average lawyer-joe, it's a sucky field. Same will happen to pharmacy. And all the new schools. And we'll be making around ~$75k or so. A ruined life if you have $250k in loans though. Good luck to you all though--- I know you have all the answers.

 

[BMBiology]

Didn't the OP start a thread titled, "how to get into pharmacy school with a GPA < 3.0". That pretty much summarizes the direction of our profession

 

[The Recoverer]

Notice that this crap is never posted in the Pharmacy forum because it would get laughed at.

Edit: It's not that there aren't jobs. There are. And good jobs even. Just like law. Every year the Big14 law schools send new grads to big jobs in the City. Every year a number of lawyers become millionaires. But--- for the average lawyer-joe, it's a sucky field. Same will happen to pharmacy. And all the new schools. And we'll be making around ~$75k or so. A ruined life if you have $250k in loans though. Good luck to you all though--- I know you have all the answers.

I don;t see pharmacists ever dropping to 75K/year. That would suck and no one would want to be a pharmacist anymore

 

[VP_Pharm2004]

Didn't the OP start a thread titled, "how to get into pharmacy school with a GPA < 3.0". That pretty much summarizes the direction of our profession

The "Recoverer" must be a faculty member at new pharmacy school trying to "recover" the dying profession.

 

[metrarx]

I don;t see pharmacists ever dropping to 75K/year. That would suck and no one would want to be a pharmacist anymore

Oh really?

Here's a Jan 2012 thread from an employee of a small chain independent pharmacy.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=884279

"After interviewing/hiring we found out that we could have easily paid 75k (but probably not lower) and have got these people to sign our contract."

If I remember correctly, they were starting new pharmacists at 80k.

So here's a business that quickly realized that the ball is in their court with all of these pharmacy schools in California and quickly adopted to a lower starting salary. What makes you think all the major chains won't follow suit?

 

[awval999]

I don;t see pharmacists ever dropping to 75K/year. That would suck and no one would want to be a pharmacist anymore

 

[awval999]

Didn't the OP start a thread titled, "how to get into pharmacy school with a GPA < 3.0". That pretty much summarizes the direction of our profession

If one wants to be a slave to Uncle Stafford and Aunt Sallie Mae----a slave--- then they can be a pharmacist. One can find a new school willing to take him/her, no matter the GPA.

 

[The Recoverer]

If one wants to be a slave to Uncle Stafford and Aunt Sallie Mae----a slave--- then they can be a pharmacist. One can find a new school willing to take him/her, no matter the GPA.

That's not true. There is a cutoff. You are so negative considering you're in the profession yourself. I understand it's important to understand the job market for the profession but to call pharmacists slaves? It's pathetic you are in this profession. Pharmacy really doesn't need you.

 

[AlPacino]

It's always the pre-pharmacy students who pull the BLS data. It's never the P3/P4s who are getting closer to job hunting.

You have to be real with yourself. The number of students graduating is only going to increase every year. I don't see significant changes in the retail world anytime soon. And this is where most of the students will end up. Looks like Walgreens is trying to jump on board the ACO bandwagon along with CVS so that may create some opportunity but not nearly enough to guarantee jobs for everyone.

I have talked to P4s from different schools who say they are worried about the job market because the job fair at their school is getting smaller every year. I have talked to interns at RA and grocery chains who say only a very limited number of job offers went out.

BLS data may have been somewhat accurate if there was not an aggressive proliferation of pharmacy schools but now that data is truly meaningless

Notice that this crap is never posted in the Pharmacy forum because it would get laughed at.

Edit: It's not that there aren't jobs. There are. And good jobs even. Just like law. Every year the Big14 law schools send new grads to big jobs in the City. Every year a number of lawyers become millionaires. But--- for the average lawyer-joe, it's a sucky field. Same will happen to pharmacy. And all the new schools. And we'll be making around ~$75k or so. A ruined life if you have $250k in loans though. Good luck to you all though--- I know you have all the answers.

Didn't the OP start a thread titled, "how to get into pharmacy school with a GPA < 3.0". That pretty much summarizes the direction of our profession

The "Recoverer" must be a faculty member at new pharmacy school trying to "recover" the dying profession.

You guys should just start a Facebook group where you can complain and moan about pharmacy topics all day. That way most of us wouldnt have to see this redundant crap every day

 

[awval999]

That's not true. There is a cutoff. You are so negative considering you're in the profession yourself. I understand it's important to understand the job market for the profession but to call pharmacists slaves? It's pathetic you are in this profession. Pharmacy really doesn't need you.

Yes. I am in the profession so I am entitled to comment the way I feel about my profession. You are only a slave to your debt. Says so in the bible. Actually.... pharmacy probably doesn't "need" you. Probably only need half of us. Just you wait.

Proverbs 22:7---- Just as the rich rule over the poor, the borrower is slave to the lender

I thank God every day that I only have ~$90k in loans left. Work in a hospital. And graduated in 2010. Hopefully I can pay off the rest of my loans in the next 5 years so when the SHTF I can be okay with the "new normal". I know how hard paying off $120k initial balance is. I can't imagine trying to pay off double that.

 

[crazybob]

I agree, but there's always going to be someone who's going to try to bring you down and point out the problems in everything because nothing is perfect.

Optimistic threads get attacked by everyone with a bunch of criticism.

Pessimistic threads get a lot of comments from people saying they agree.

 

[The Recoverer]

You guys should just start a Facebook group where you can complain and moan about pharmacy topics all day. That way most of us wouldnt have to see this redundant crap every day

^

 

[The Recoverer]

I agree, but there's always going to be someone who's going to try to bring you down and point out the problems in everything because nothing is perfect.

Optimistic threads get attacked by everyone with a bunch of criticism.

Pessimistic threads get a lot of comments from people saying they agree.

This seems like the case. Pessimism....by people in the field itself. Logic?

 

[PharmtoCS]

This seems like the case. Pessimism....by people in the field itself. Logic?

That's because they have actually been in the field and faced real challenges, thus they hold a more realistic view of the field. You can either weigh what they have to say about the field, or you can dismiss them, tell them that they don't belong in the field, and to believe that everything is all rainbows and unicorns.

 

[crazybob]

That's because they have actually been in the field and faced real challenges, thus they hold a more realistic view of the field. You can either weigh what they have to say about the field, or you can dismiss them, tell them that they doing belong in the field, and to believe that everything is all rainbows and unicorns.

It's not always realistic though. It is the internet, after all.

 

[358265]

It's not always realistic though. It is the internet, after all.

You have to ask yourself, which one should I believe? A pre-pharmacy student versus a pharmacy student versus a pharmacist. Which one would and should know more about the truth of the matter?

 

[JohnFe]

Anything in life is not unicorns and rainbows.

You have to work harder and smarter than anybody else to achieve great things.

Also, everyone is entitled to their opinion but these negative and positive facts exist. Optimism is great but reality hurts. You have to weigh in the advantages and disadvantages. If pharmacy is your passion, by all means pursue it and don't let anyone put you down.

To skeptics, talk to your local pharmacists or shadow a pharmacist at a hospital and ask their opinions. Do more research. Read articles. Don't believe one source. Knowledge is great~

As for me, I treat every decision as a business deal. What are the pros and cons? Will this be profitable in the long run? Will I be happy with where I'm at 15 years from now? Are these loans worth investing? Will my time be worth it? What are my opportunity costs? Is there another option? These are the things to consider.

Lastly, sugar coating reality is VERY dangerous. Don't give anyone false hopes. Worrying is bad and unhealthy but CAREFULLY thinking and planning YOUR future are much better.

Worrying = No concrete Basis, based on assumptions, random person's opinions
Thinking and Planning = Concrete basis, based on facts, professional's opinions

These are just my opinion, feel free to agree or disagree~

 

[PharmtoCS]

It's always the pre-pharmacy students who pull the BLS data. It's never the P3/P4s who are getting closer to job hunting.

Time to cite the BLS data in favor of going to pharmacy school!

Oh wait.

 

[JustFillIt]

Time to cite the BLS data in favor of going to pharmacy school!

Oh wait.

Lol! You turkey... I see what you did here...

 

[rxkrafted]

Ok before I go on, let me just mention this: I am already aware of the diploma mills and pharmacy saturation in certain areas. So you do not have to try and explain those to me.

Take a quick read of this federal website before continuing on:


The job outlook is not as grim as some people on this forum claims it to be. Here are a few reasons:

1. With the baby boomer population continuing to rise, more senior citizens will be needing our assistance.

2. The role of pharmacists are rapidly expanding towards a collaborative nature with physicians, nurses and other health professionals. Pharmacists now and in the future will deal with more than just medications, but also overall health and wellness as well as health counseling. Therefore, this expanding role means that there will be MORE areas of healthcare that pharmacists can be involved in. More involvement = more opportunities = more jobs.

3. Believe it or not, immigration from other countries, especially China, Korea, Vietnam, and India is actually on the rise. The undergraduate institution in my town admits approximately 5,600 international students every year. international students are away from their families and the stress of school and work takes a toll on them. They often get sick just as much as senior citizens and children. They also all need immunizations and new drug regimens from moving to a new country. Therefore, they actually represent a strong patient base for pharmacists.

3. A job is easy to find if you choose to make it easy to find. it is very true that the market is getting ever so competitive, but no worries. This doesn't mean you cannot do something about it. You have all the tools available to you to make yourself a more competitive applicant to a position. Instead of sitting around worrying about the job market, you can join more professional organizations, set up a strong network with pharmacists/preceptors while in school, and really take the time and commitment to do well in your courses. What I am trying to say here is that school is not only about pass your classes, but more importantly, about grabbing EVERY SINGLE OPPORTUNITY WITHIN YOUR REACH, to become more involved and BUFF up your resume.





TL;DR: Stop bitchin and do work! Good luck!

where are you?

 

[Secret_Informant]

Here are my questions (in reference to rxkrafted's post):

1. How many more jobs will be created in pharmacy due to this supposed increase in utilization of healthcare services by baby boomers? Baby boomers will continue to work and utilize healthcare services from an outpatient perspective, but how will this experience benefit those who want to specialize in other areas and not be stuck in ambulatory care and geriatric care (like some of us were stuck in retail)? Will there be latitude to move into other specialties if one gets bored?

2. Wellness and counseling do occur with specialty jobs, yet many of these positions require 2 years experience as a licensed pharmacist: not as an intern, not as a fellow, and not as a resident. Candidates do land positions as specialty pharmacists that did not require that experience, even after failing the FL MPJE 4 times (passing on the fifth within 6 months); that fact does not reassure me. Will the growth rate of specialty jobs overshadow the explosion of students applying and new graduates entering the market? Again, not every pharmacy graduate earns a residency or a fellowship or encounters a beneficial work team. Will non-traditional careers also spring up to the point where "only the best" are not the only people considered? Can the average pharmacy graduate afford to create their own jobs despite a market in equilibrium (equilibrium in Biochemistry equals death by the way, hence the question)?

3. The advice of beefing up the resume is directed only to students that are enrolled in pharmacy school, not professionals who feel the effects more than those practicing. How will those pharmacists already in this market adapt? Take more certifications and more foreign language courses? Not everyone speaks Spanish, Korean, Mandarin Chinese, or Vietnamese fluently enough to reach this patient population; the dialects are also cumbersome to follow unless your family speaks those languages themselves. It costs money for ALL people to learn the language. Rosetta Stone does not pay for itself.

4. Are there financial incentives for applicants to apply to residency programs in addition to marketing towards pharmacists who want a change in practice environment (retail to hospital to academia), not just pharmacy students? To contend with your point: jobs are easy to find (i.e. Google, indeed, IPhO, etcetera), but not easy to land (i.e. "You're hired!").

Also, you are not clear when you say EVERY SINGLE OPPORTUNITY. Do you mean work as a Prior Authorization Specialist at $15 per hour or something else or as an Adjunct Biology Instructor in the interim until the jobs open up? Please be clear when you are speaking about opportunities and whether they relate to pharmacy skill building or not. That is my recommendation.

These question is not answered even with the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) data. Knowing this data, I'm debating whether or not to retake the MPJE again or save myself the trouble and get a PhD.

 

[rxkrafted]

How much more jobs will be created? Will it overshadow the explosion of students applying? Can new graduates afford to create their own jobs? That question is not answered even with the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) data.

~36 Pharmacy schools have opened since the last BLS update. Yeah it doesn't address those questions but it doesn't take a genius to figure out there is a surplus of pharmacists in the market compared to existing available jobs. I promise you new grads are not creating their own jobs to make up for the large volume of grads being pumped out every year.

 

[mentos]

This thread didn't age well.

 

[Sine Cura]

What's OP up to now?

I bet experience was a brutal teacher.

 

[JustFillIt]

What's OP up to now?

I bet experience was a brutal teacher.

Hate to say it but he may be doing just fine. Good days and bad days like anyone else - or, peaks and valleys if you prefer - but maybe he is just fine.

 

[Sine Cura]

the reason I posted this is because it seems like an increasingly number of people on here are thinking about giving up pharmacy because they are afraid they can't find a job. yet they want to become a pharmacist. WE CANNOT SEE 4 years down to the road lol.

Sadly most people portray it as gloom and doom.

I don;t see pharmacists ever dropping to 75K/year. That would suck and no one would want to be a pharmacist anymore

Where's that optimism and passion?

Retail can't even get anyone good to stick around willingly at 120k much less 75k though

 

[Lubeckd]

How are the pharmacist moms or part timers. This is the economy they can still work and have a life

 

[sozetone]

Ok before I go on, let me just mention this: I am already aware of the diploma mills and pharmacy saturation in certain areas. So you do not have to try and explain those to me.

Take a quick read of this federal website before continuing on:


The job outlook is not as grim as some people on this forum claims it to be. Here are a few reasons:

1. With the baby boomer population continuing to rise, more senior citizens will be needing our assistance.

2. The role of pharmacists are rapidly expanding towards a collaborative nature with physicians, nurses and other health professionals. Pharmacists now and in the future will deal with more than just medications, but also overall health and wellness as well as health counseling. Therefore, this expanding role means that there will be MORE areas of healthcare that pharmacists can be involved in. More involvement = more opportunities = more jobs.

3. Believe it or not, immigration from other countries, especially China, Korea, Vietnam, and India is actually on the rise. The undergraduate institution in my town admits approximately 5,600 international students every year. international students are away from their families and the stress of school and work takes a toll on them. They often get sick just as much as senior citizens and children. They also all need immunizations and new drug regimens from moving to a new country. Therefore, they actually represent a strong patient base for pharmacists.

3. A job is easy to find if you choose to make it easy to find. it is very true that the market is getting ever so competitive, but no worries. This doesn't mean you cannot do something about it. You have all the tools available to you to make yourself a more competitive applicant to a position. Instead of sitting around worrying about the job market, you can join more professional organizations, set up a strong network with pharmacists/preceptors while in school, and really take the time and commitment to do well in your courses. What I am trying to say here is that school is not only about pass your classes, but more importantly, about grabbing EVERY SINGLE OPPORTUNITY WITHIN YOUR REACH, to become more involved and BUFF up your resume.





TL;DR: Stop bitchin and do work! Good luck!

I somehow came across this post from way back when. Take a look around now.......Didn't work out like ya said huh?

 

[Sleepingdoc]

I feel like few people are just creating a worry.

 

[PharmtoCS]

I feel like few people are just creating a worry.

Yet you seem more interested in going to med school. Mind telling us why?

 

[Sleepingdoc]

Yet you seem more interested in going to med school. Mind telling us why?

I do not need to explain to anyone why I contribute to multiple forums.

 

[The Recoverer]

What's OP up to now?

I bet experience was a brutal teacher.

im doing amazing right now thank you!

 

[DagS132]

lmao, OP came back.
OP i used your strategy on finding jobs and its all I do now. Just wanted to say something about your dead thread

 

[PharmtoCS]

im doing amazing right now thank you!

Where do you work?