Pediatric Salaries

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MacVA

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Hi,

I wanted to preface that this question is for a good friend of mine as I am a lowly pre med.

My friend is trying to decide between Emergency Medicine and Pediatrics. She is currently leaning towards Peds but given her debt (roughly $250K) she is a little worried about being able to pay it off.

Would any attending pediatric physicians be able to comment on the salary for a pediatrican in say the midwest or southeast? Would it be possible to make $200K starting out if she worked like 60-70 hours per week?

Thanks for the help :)

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$200K starting out is well outside median starting salaries for just about all areas of the country. Certainly there are ways to make extra income (moonlighting, etc) but to expect to take a singular job as a primary care pediatrician and make 200 is probably an unrealistic expectation for most.
 
$200K starting out is well outside median starting salaries for just about all areas of the country. Certainly there are ways to make extra income (moonlighting, etc) but to expect to take a singular job as a primary care pediatrician and make 200 is probably an unrealistic expectation for most.

No one else care to comment... I feel like this is the only speciality where I cannot get some idea of what doctors earn...
 
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If your friend is in med school, chances are that she has an automatic subscription to "Careers in Medicine" from her school. Tell her to log on to this website. I believe that it has average starting salaries for every specialty for the past few years. This should give her a good idea.
 
Salaries will vary, but as JRad said, 200k is high. Your friend will definitely make more money in emergency medicine, so if that's what's driving her, then go for it. No one goes into peds for the money. There are definitely subspecialities that make a lot of money. GI, PICU, cards, neo to name a few. But the money isn't in general peds, and subspecializing adds another 3 years to the training.
 
I still get the occasional recruiting email for general peds jobs, and I remember seeing 1 or 2 that offered 180-200k salary, usually in a place that nobody wants to move to.

Still, it's great for morale as a fellow to get emails saying "hey, instead of being a fellow you could be making 4x your current salary!" :D

I think most people from my residency who went into private practice started around 100-120k. I think once you make partner you can make over 150k for gen peds as long as you see like 60 patients a day.

Bottom line is I've heard of people starting below 100k for gen peds and I've heard of some making 200k as partners. Depends on a lot of things. 200k is not unheard of for gen peds but it should definitely not be expected.
 
I still get the occasional recruiting email for general peds jobs, and I remember seeing 1 or 2 that offered 180-200k salary, usually in a place that nobody wants to move to.

Still, it's great for morale as a fellow to get emails saying "hey, instead of being a fellow you could be making 4x your current salary!" :D

I think most people from my residency who went into private practice started around 100-120k. I think once you make partner you can make over 150k for gen peds as long as you see like 60 patients a day.

Bottom line is I've heard of people starting below 100k for gen peds and I've heard of some making 200k as partners. Depends on a lot of things. 200k is not unheard of for gen peds but it should definitely not be expected.

For someone right out of residency making ~100k, what sort of call and hours per week are you probably going to be working?
 
I still get the occasional recruiting email for general peds jobs, and I remember seeing 1 or 2 that offered 180-200k salary, usually in a place that nobody wants to move to.

Still, it's great for morale as a fellow to get emails saying "hey, instead of being a fellow you could be making 4x your current salary!" :D

I think most people from my residency who went into private practice started around 100-120k. I think once you make partner you can make over 150k for gen peds as long as you see like 60 patients a day.

Bottom line is I've heard of people starting below 100k for gen peds and I've heard of some making 200k as partners. Depends on a lot of things. 200k is not unheard of for gen peds but it should definitely not be expected.

Totally agree with this and it's consistent with my experience and that of my residency classmates.

For someone right out of residency making ~100k, what sort of call and hours per week are you probably going to be working?

I feel like people want blanket statements on these types of things, when the reality is that there is a HUGE variation in practice, call, responsibility and salary. If you're a hospitalist, you may have weeks where you're very busy and on all the time followed by a week completely off. Likewise some practices have nursery/delivery responsibility and some don't. Call is definitely easier as an attending, but harder for my friend working in a small rural practice where there's nothing else around. Some admit their own patients to the hospital and some don't. But there's no direct correlation. Find the right practice in the right area and you can still make bank.

Heck, I know a couple of (3 year)fellowship trained pediatric ID specialists who only make around 100k.

The recurring theme here is that although this salary is low compared to some other areas, those of us who do it, really do enjoy our jobs and working with children. We don't have great difficulty paying our debt, but we don't have huge houses with expensive cars either. I don't need to live large, I'm happy living medium. It'd be nice to make more, but I do well with what I've got, and most of my collegues feel the same way.
 
The recurring theme here is that although this salary is low compared to some other areas, those of us who do it, really do enjoy our jobs and working with children. We don't have great difficulty paying our debt, but we don't have huge houses with expensive cars either. I don't need to live large, I'm happy living medium. It'd be nice to make more, but I do well with what I've got, and most of my collegues feel the same way.

I understand there is a lot of variation, I'm not really concerned with salary I was just curious about what sort of hours are typical because my significant other was asking me about it the other day (I think she is secretly crossing her fingers that I fall in love with psych and then work 8-5 M-F).
 
I understand there is a lot of variation, I'm not really concerned with salary I was just curious about what sort of hours are typical because my significant other was asking me about it the other day (I think she is secretly crossing her fingers that I fall in love with psych and then work 8-5 M-F).
You can definitely find a job working 8-5ish Mon-Fri in a large city with home call for "mommy calls." If your office utilizes a hospitalist, there'll be no hospital rounding. Nice hours, low stress, and the pay will be 100-150k.
 
I work with a doc in a smaller city in the south who works 9-5 with at least 1/2 day off a week (sometimes a full day)... They have a contract and can work extra hours if they want to and make more money, or not! Seems like a pretty good deal, but again smallerish town (definitely not D.C./Dallas/San fran) but still nice.
 
I work with a doc in a smaller city in the south who works 9-5 with at least 1/2 day off a week (sometimes a full day)... They have a contract and can work extra hours if they want to and make more money, or not! Seems like a pretty good deal, but again smallerish town (definitely not D.C./Dallas/San fran) but still nice.

This is reassuring to hear, I've grown up in the suburbs of a small to mid-sized south eastern city and would love to work in a similar setting someday. (I hate big cities and have no understanding of why people enjoy them!!)
 
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One more quick question,

My state has a website where you can look up salaries of people who work for state funded agencies, so I started looking up the salaries of peds folks at one of the state med schools.

A bunch of the peds hospitalists (including full professors) were listed at 70k-85k.
Besides wanting to do research, is there a reason why a peds hospitalist would want to take a 30k/year hit to work at the med school instead of a private hospital?
 
One more quick question,

My state has a website where you can look up salaries of people who work for state funded agencies, so I started looking up the salaries of peds folks at one of the state med schools.

A bunch of the peds hospitalists (including full professors) were listed at 70k-85k.
Besides wanting to do research, is there a reason why a peds hospitalist would want to take a 30k/year hit to work at the med school instead of a private hospital?

Some states only list the "state" salary and do not include a second clinical check for night call or other clinical services. The state listed salaries are not reliable.
 
Howdy there. I am 12 months removed from residency. I am in a Texas suburban city with good socioeconomic demographics. I earn 145 annually plus quarterly bonuses based on collections. I work basic office hours 4 days per week in an outpatient practice with once monthly Saturday clinic; I have to provide weekend hospital coverage for our 9 doc call group about once every 2 months. It is a far cry from residency, thank God. Hope this helps. Holla with questions.
 
Howdy there. I am 12 months removed from residency. I am in a Texas suburban city with good socioeconomic demographics. I earn 145 annually plus quarterly bonuses based on collections. I work basic office hours 4 days per week in an outpatient practice with once monthly Saturday clinic; I have to provide weekend hospital coverage for our 9 doc call group about once every 2 months. It is a far cry from residency, thank God. Hope this helps. Holla with questions.

Thanks for the info! If I may ask, what is a realistic average range for the quarterly bonuses? 5-10k?
 
Howdy there. I am 12 months removed from residency. I am in a Texas suburban city with good socioeconomic demographics. I earn 145 annually plus quarterly bonuses based on collections. I work basic office hours 4 days per week in an outpatient practice with once monthly Saturday clinic; I have to provide weekend hospital coverage for our 9 doc call group about once every 2 months. It is a far cry from residency, thank God. Hope this helps. Holla with questions.
Sounds like a dream. ;) (so says the 3rd year resident)
 
Howdy there. I am 12 months removed from residency. I am in a Texas suburban city with good socioeconomic demographics. I earn 145 annually plus quarterly bonuses based on collections. I work basic office hours 4 days per week in an outpatient practice with once monthly Saturday clinic; I have to provide weekend hospital coverage for our 9 doc call group about once every 2 months. It is a far cry from residency, thank God. Hope this helps. Holla with questions.

On your "5th" day per week are you still at the office doing paperwork or do you have 3 days "completely" off on non-call weeks?
 
all of the fulltime private primary care peds docs i've worked with have one weekday off per week with variable night hours (ex, one night of extending from 4pm-7pm), weekend shifts, and hospital/nursery coverage
 
Hey again gang.

My day off is my day off. I have gone to the hospital if I have a newborn there, and I have also asked a colleague to cover that/those baby or babies if I didn't want to go in. I live 1 mile from the hospital, so that amounts to a real brief visit (checkup, visit, online note - which can be done from home). But I am not in the office on those days off. Or those weekends. Our office has EMR and remote access, so being a nerd, I do check on labs, phone messages, stuff like that, when the mood strikes me. And most pvt pedis in the area do seem to be 4 days a week. One job I interviewed with was 4.5 days per week.

Quarterly bonuses are highly variable since they are based on collections AND what the contract states is the magic # above which you earn a percentage. Before starting work, I had no concept what was attainable. But I earn a percentage (10%, I think -- contract is not in front of me right now) of money over 120,000 per quarter in collections. I have made two bonuses so far of around 5K each. But if my magic # was higher or my collections not enough, then I would make smaller or no bonuses. But then again, I am starting out in my 12 month of work, so it will improve. I am just pleased to earn a bonus at all!

Also, of note, in the private practice world, most of the time, a local community hospital is helping the practice to find a new physician. An exception would be if a practice is losing somebody and merely looking to substitute in a new person and take over those patients. But when a practice is expanding, the local hospital will pay the salary of the new employee in an income guarantee fashion. In this way, the practice does not suffer trying to pay you OR current practitioner are not having their patients shuttled your way to keep you afloat. The guarantee works like this: the hospital will guarantee you a salary & benefits per month. At the end of your term with the hospital, you 'owe' them all the money back BUT it is forgiven in monthly increments (likely a 36 month term) for each month you stay put and continue working in either that same practice or at least in the same coverage area of that hospital. You do owe the hospital the money if you leave the area. Moral - take your time, do your homework, ask the questions of all employees, maybe visit with locals and get it right the first time. If you don't, add your year one salary to your student loans! But I like my area, my job, etc. and have no reason to anticipate ever paying the hospital a dime back directly.
 
To answer the previous question about work hours, I do not know specifics from people whom I did residency with, but I think most are working 4-4.5 days a week with the usual shared call depending on how big the group is.

One more quick question,

My state has a website where you can look up salaries of people who work for state funded agencies, so I started looking up the salaries of peds folks at one of the state med schools.

A bunch of the peds hospitalists (including full professors) were listed at 70k-85k.
Besides wanting to do research, is there a reason why a peds hospitalist would want to take a 30k/year hit to work at the med school instead of a private hospital?

Sometimes those salaries can be misleading because some of the medical schools are set up to pay their attendings two salaries, one from the university and one from the collective group practice or the hospital.

Where I work this is the setup, if you look online at published salaries they may be below $100k but then the attendings are also paid from a second source.
 
Title:Pediatrics State:PAMin Salary:80000Max Salary:90000 Description: Pediatrician Sought PART-Time! Shifts will be primarily evenings and weekends.
Seeking a general pediatrician to work part-time (average of 16-20 hours per week with opportunity for additional moonlighting) in a community hospital emergency department located outside of Philadelphia. Hospital has approximately 8000 pediatric visits to ED per year and has a recently renovated ED with pediatric area that is separate. Responsibilities include direct patient care as well as precepting pediatric residents and medical students.
well i just found this immediately from a job search. so 16-20 hours a week for 80-90k. that sounds pretty aweasome to me.
 
Quarterly bonuses are highly variable since they are based on collections AND what the contract states is the magic # above which you earn a percentage. Before starting work, I had no concept what was attainable. But I earn a percentage (10%, I think -- contract is not in front of me right now) of money over 120,000 per quarter in collections. I have made two bonuses so far of around 5K each. But if my magic # was higher or my collections not enough, then I would make smaller or no bonuses. But then again, I am starting out in my 12 month of work, so it will improve. I am just pleased to earn a bonus at all!

So if I have this figured correctly, your bonus would imply quarterly collections of 170k or yearly collections of 680k. Of this, you would receive 145k base and 20k bonus for a total of 165k.

If your practice's overhead percentage is 50%, then the net pool from which your salary would be paid is 680/2=340k meaning your employers are making a profit of 175k from your efforts.

I hope this arrangement is for a period of employment followed by an ownership interest in the practice and that the price for the "buy-in" is relatively modest given the amount you are leaving on the table.
 
Okay ... so I pulled out the contract. Bonuses are 25% of collections over 120k per quarter. And there is an option for equal partnership after 3 years and some other criteria. But I was mistaken on the % for bonuses.
 
The OC register newspaper has a searchable database for all the UC medical schools, like UCSF, UCLA, etc.

You can look up any peds professor by typing in their name and see their Base Salary, as well as the Extra Pay they receive for patient care duties.

http://www.ocregister.com/news/state-221519-universities-university.html?data=1

Generally, it seems that the base salary goes from 50k to about 200k and it depends mainly on your Rank (whether you are a full, associate, or assistant prof). The extra pay seems to depend more on whether or not you are in a procedure-heavy peds subspecialty, or maybe one that involves a lot of in house call.

There seem to be very few peds faculty (even full professors) whose Gross Pay rises above 200k.
 
Just to add to the above post: You don't know how good of a benefits package these faculty members are getting. I've heard there are quite a few special benefits beyond health and malpractice insurance. Some schools actually give their full professors special stipends for their children's college tuition.
 
I thought a lot about salary before I made the choice to train in pediatrics. What I discovered was that it's really difficult to get a realistic view of what the future earnings in any specialty will be. The job market is constantly in flux - 5 years ago everyone was excited about the shortage of anesthesiologists and the wide-open job market. Fast forward to the recession and things have tightened up. There is still good earning potential in the field, but less options than just a few years ago. I heard of a urologist who took home <$100k because his practice decided to ride out the economy rather than get rid of staff. I have also heard of an occuloplastics doc netting in the low $100's as business has slowed down. I don't know how many hours either of these physicians worked.

The earning potential of general peds these days is pretty much on par with general internal medicine and family practice. So says the Bureau of Labor Statistics website, the AMGA salary survey, mysalary.com, etc. A realistic mid-career average for any of these fields appears to be $150-170k.

The AAP published a paper just last year that polled starting salaries of graduating residents. The starting salary for part-time employment was around $80k, full time was about $105k and hospitalist was about $120k. When I dig up the paper again, I'll link it to this forum.

Without question, these salaries are considerably lower than starting figures for ENT (mid-200's at my med school), anesthesiology (low-200's at my school), radiology, etc. Then again, while general peds certainly has its stressful, challenging aspects, pediatricians are not dissecting near the carotid or keeping people alive during heart surgery on a daily basis. So there's a trade-off.

From what I can gather, if you want to be a pediatrician but still want to make the big bucks, it's possible, but there's always a trade-off (as there should be). It's been mentioned already, but critical care, neo, and cards all have high earning potential but a different lifestyle and longer training than general peds. At my med school, starting salary in these fields was around $180k-230k. That's with state benefits (very good) and bonuses not included. Mid-career physicians/professors were earning in the mid-upper $200's. Such salaries are consistent with a lot of the published survey data on these fields. Those guys also spent the night in the hospital, routinely flew across the state to attend clinic, and dealt with the emotional demands of critically ill children. They earned their salaries.

Some people could make themselves do anything so long as they are being compensated well. If that's the case, pick a high earning field like rads or anesthesia and cross your fingers that health reform doesn't slash your salary too much or that CRNAs don't make you obsolete (a constant worry of my friends in those fields, though I'm not sure it's really substantiated).

According to the AAP, the average pediatric resident will graduate from training with $159k in education debt (this includes spouse debt, as well). Personally, I have $119k and my wife has about $35k from nursing school, so we're right around average. I picked pediatrics because I could envision myself happy on a daily basis using my knowledge of medicine to heal children. Because the majority of the physicians in the field know the importance of balancing a demanding job and family responsibilities. Because people in the field are generally pleasant and easy-going. And because even $130k is still way more than my father made in his early 30's as a engineering assistant.

I have a lot of very smart, motivated friends who work in the pharmaceutical industry, for engineering firms, as research assistants and I don't think that they will be earning more than 100k in their 30's. Medicine also has considerably better job security than most other fields. It's unlikely that you'll show up at the hospital where you have been working for 20 years and be informed that you have been laid off. In most other careers, job security sucks these days.

I don't think that salary should be the sole motivating force for picking a career in medicine. To be honest, I get the occasional pang of regret that I didn't pick a high earning field - I was a really competitive applicant and could have almost certainly matched into rads or anesthesia. However, I don't like the part of my personality that is only money-driven. For me, a career in rads or anesthesia would have only perpetuated that financial tunnel vision because I simply didn't enjoy the work as much while I was in med school.

Bottom line - if you want to operate on someone's neck, pick ENT. If you want to do some cool procedures, look at films and have less patient contact, choose rads. If you have an interest in adult critical care and like the operating room, consider surgery or anesthesia. If you want to care for sick kids and communicate with their parents, choose peds.

If you want a good laugh, go the dermatology forum. Some of them are whining about their low earning potential of only $300k (one poster said he wishes he would have just chosen to be a hedge fund manager). :)
 
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Hello, I am a 3rd Year Medical Student wanting to go into General Pediatrics, probably a private practice. We dont learn much about the business side of things in med school so I was just wondering how salaries work in the field...are most pediatricians offered a set salary in private practice or does what you make vary based on how many patients you see, how fast you see them, etc? I think I would prefer a set salary but just wondered how this usually works? Thanks for your time and help!
 
I am not 100% sure since I did not go the private practice route, but from others' telling me, it seems that you start out at a lower set salary for the first few years, and then when you make partner you have a higher base salary and can earn much more based on how many patients you see.
 
Hello, I am a 3rd Year Medical Student wanting to go into General Pediatrics, probably a private practice. We dont learn much about the business side of things in med school so I was just wondering how salaries work in the field...are most pediatricians offered a set salary in private practice or does what you make vary based on how many patients you see, how fast you see them, etc? I think I would prefer a set salary but just wondered how this usually works? Thanks for your time and help!
There's some pretty good info in this thread to answer your question. I'd be happy to answer any other specific questions you have. I'm a 3rd year resident currently in the job market, so I have some idea about what's out there.
 
anyone have any info on starting salaries in the nyc area?
 
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