Pediatric residency rankings?

[Infliunza]

hi

I was wondering if anyone knew of where to find a "rank" list of "top tier" programs versus "second tier" programs. My girlfriend is interested in pediatrics and we're both in the process of looking at various programs (we're both at end of 3rd year). I also posted a similar question on the internal medicine discussion board, as we're probably going to end up couples matching.

So basically, she's trying to figure out what kind of programs she should be applying to, which is likely goign to be the "second tier" programs.

Would appreciate any input you guys have ... thanks so much!

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[mhdousa]

It just depends a lot on what your definition of first vs. second tier is. Do you
mean competitiveness, reputation, or quality of education? If it's the
third that you mean, then you can rest assured that the ABP has so standardized
the curriculum of pediatrics residencies that 99% of the programs out there
will give you a good education. So, in that sense, there really is no 2nd tier.

If it's reputation that you're intererested in, US News has a couple rankings: top
kids hospitals and top graduate medical education programs in pediatrics. You
might want to check out their website for those.

Hope this helps. If you've got questions on specific programs, feel free to ask.
Just curious: why can your girlfriend only look at 2nd tier programs?

-M

 

[nychick]

Well, in the Northeast (where you said in your other post you'd like to be), there should be good opportunities to find something that suits the both of you, as there are a number of large metro areas--Boston, Philly, and New York, possibly even Baltimore/DC although you may be faced with greater commutes if the 2 hospitals are further apart--with tons of peds programs, from the top-tier super competitive to the not-so-much. I'm also not clear why you state your gf wants 2nd tier but maybe you'll explain.

 

[jackjinju]

Well, as someone who has matched in a "2nd tier program" in the Northeast, here's my take.

I guess first tier, meaning prestige and/ or competitiveness, would include (and don't shoot me if I miss programs or screw up the tier, it's just one guy's opinion)...

Kinda IA =

Hopkins
CHOP
Columbia
Cornell
Boston Children's
Yale
Pittsburgh Children's
DC Children's

Kinda IB =

NYU
Mt. Sinai
Einstein/Montefiore

Kinda Tier IIA

St. Christopher's
Jefferson/DuPont
U. Maryland
UMDNJ/Robert Wood Johnson-New Brunswick
Long Island Jewish/Schneider's
Tufts
U. Connecticut

Kinda Tier IIB

Einstein-Jacobi
New York Medical College
SUNY Downstate
Penn State
Stony Brook

The smaller/less known ones are very good, too. Just not particualrly competitive for US grads aka you want them, you got them. Those types of programs that I've heard good things about (or interviewed at and liked)include....

Crozer-Chester Medical Center
Winthrop University Hospital
Maimonides
New York Methodist
Atlantic Health Systems/Morristown
Monmouth Medical Center




Does that sound reasonable? Mind you this is a VERY rough and arbitrary list.

a guy at a so-called "IIA program"

 

[jdog]

Good and fair question:

I posted the same answer to a same question recently, but here it goes again:

Clearly the top 3 overall according to reputation: CHOP, HOPkins, Boston Childrens.

By reputation again, next teir of programs (as I said before, I no nothing about most programs west of the mississippi river so i will surely leave some out):

starting in NE (just by reputation, and again, I will surely leave some out): CHOP, Cornell, Columbia, Yale, Pittsburgh, Brown.

SE (my home district, so this is pretty solid truth):
top teir: Hopkins, UVA, Duke, UNC, Baylor, UTSW, Vanderbilt, UAB, DC childrens (no fill this year????) fringe top teir: Emory

Midwest: top teir: Cincinnati, Rainbow (by reputation only mind you, interviewing here was painful), Children Memorial in Chicago, U of Chicago, U Michigan, Mayo Clinic (I assume although never heard anyone talk about it), Wash U

West: not really a clue, although Denver and Seattle are well known top teir programs. Heard OHSU is good but ask someone from west for details. I know absolutley nothing about California so I wont comment)

These are by reputation only (us news, word of mouth, talking to people). You bet you will get a hell of an education at any place on this list. There are probably 50 more great places to train, but I assume you wanted a great list like this. DO NOT LIMIT your choices to only top teir reputation. I disliked half of the top teirs i interviewed at and actually ranked many second teirs ahead of first teirs. Good luck.

 

[mhdousa]

I looked mostly in the west, so here are my thoughts on the western programs:
For reputation, the top ones are Washington, Stanford, UCSF, UCLA, Children's LA, Oakland, and Denver.
Other programs that I've heard are great but aren't as well known: OHSU (it's getting into that top tier of reputation), New Mexico, Harbor UCLA, Davis, Children's Orange County, and UCSD. Of these, I can only comment on OHSU from first-hand knowledge.

Feel free to correct me if you think I'm talking out of my ass.

Good luck!

-M

 

[ubiquitous]

Originally posted by jdog
Midwest: top teir: Cincinnati, Rainbow (by reputation only mind you, interviewing here was painful)

Just curious jdog, but what didn't you like about Rainbow Children's? Was it the interview or the hospital environment?

Thanks!

 

[jdog]

Didn't like:

Most programs give a shpeil (sp) about their program for around a half hour or so and hit the highlights. Well Rainbow literally talked for an hour mostly on what was wrong with the program for the last few years, why they only filled 10 of 25 spots in 2002 match, and how they were beginning to change to fit residents needs.

They specifacally admitted to resident education being a lower priority than churning out a million patients. Said rounds were very disorganized.

Also, they pay less than most other rez, they only let us meet a few residents the whole day. Blah, Blah. Also they had to fill 14 spots in 2002 through the scramble. Those will be your seniors. Now maybe they are all brilliant and put me to shame, but the fact is that over half of your seniors could not match into a peds program anywhere in the country. Again, maybe they are great, and many of them probably are, but hell if I am going to jeopardize my pediatrics education because Rainbow promised me that they are cleaning up their act.

Anymore questions please let me know.
Also, I would love to hear from someone inside this program because I would hate to spread dirty rumors, but the 10 of 24 is a fact.

After all this, this is still definately a top 10 hospital in this country for reputation, as I always have said on this board, reputation and education are often disconnected.

Peace out

 

[bob3]

grapevine says-good program=Univ conn.

 

[JameeP]

I know it was many years ago that you posted this, but in case you are still around what have you heard about U conn? I am considering that program b/c I want to be in CT but I am not competitive enough for Yale. Thanks

 

[bradberry0712]

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[Doctorverardoll]

What about the programs in VA or Sinai (MD) and UMaryland? I'm applying NY, TX, and DC-area.

 

[swimmerboy]

I am applying for pediatrics residency programs, and my mind is just going back and forth between two programs that are my top. I wondered if any of you guys could give me some advice.

I really have always had my heart set on Hopkins. A lot of faculty I knew went there and are some of the most amazing teachers I have ever had. However, I have heard that it is in not the greatest part of town and you have to worry about getting mugged all the time. I want to be able to run outside when I get off work. Also, I have no family in the northeast. All my family is down south. So, I would be starting brand new which can be intimidating. Also, the cost of living is a lot higher than in Texas. The average one bedroom I hear is around 1,000 or more. However, Hopkins has a great reputation. It is building an impressive new children's hospital. It has great teachers. And, it is only three years.

My other top choice is Baylor in Houston, Texas. The down sides to it for me are that I have always had my heart set on Hopkins. I am not sure if the "name" will be the same as if I went to Hopkins-- i.e. I am not sure if it will open up the same doors as if I went to Hopkins. The pros are that it is a lot closer to my family. I know a lot of people in the area. I can run outdoors there. The cost of living is a lot less than the northeast. And, it is a great school.

Does anyone have any pointers?

 

[michigangirl]

I am applying for pediatrics residency programs, and my mind is just going back and forth between two programs that are my top. I wondered if any of you guys could give me some advice.

I really have always had my heart set on Hopkins. A lot of faculty I knew went there and are some of the most amazing teachers I have ever had. However, I have heard that it is in not the greatest part of town and you have to worry about getting mugged all the time. I want to be able to run outside when I get off work. Also, I have no family in the northeast. All my family is down south. So, I would be starting brand new which can be intimidating. Also, the cost of living is a lot higher than in Texas. The average one bedroom I hear is around 1,000 or more. However, Hopkins has a great reputation. It is building an impressive new children's hospital. It has great teachers. And, it is only three years.

My other top choice is Baylor in Houston, Texas. The down sides to it for me are that I have always had my heart set on Hopkins. I am not sure if the "name" will be the same as if I went to Hopkins-- i.e. I am not sure if it will open up the same doors as if I went to Hopkins. The pros are that it is a lot closer to my family. I know a lot of people in the area. I can run outdoors there. The cost of living is a lot less than the northeast. And, it is a great school.

Does anyone have any pointers?

Welcome, swimmerboy! It is no secret that I am one of the biggest Hopkins cheerleaders on this board. I have been there for now 9 years and loved every minute of it. I grew up in a small town in the midwest and found my way to the east coast for residency thanks to my husband's grad school location. Let me allay some of your concerns.

From a safety standpoint, yes, Hopkins is in east baltimore. But you won't be living there. The actual main campus of Hopkins is very safe and well-patrolled and you don't even have to cross any streets to get from the parking garage to the hospital. If you decide to live in the city, you will likely be living in Canton, Fells Point, Harbor East, Mt. Washington or a variety of other family-friendly neighborhoods. You can run galore! Many of my colleagues, females included, have trained for marathons in Baltimore City, if that gives you an idea. The rent probably is significantly higher than Texas (everytime I watch an episode of House Hunters that takes place in Texas it gives me chest pain when I compare the home prices and $/square foot to what I just paid for my house in the maryland suburbs)
But I assure you, it's completely worth it. Best decision I ever made.

Also, don't know how things work at TC, but Hopkins does a great job with insurance benefits for residents. You don't pay A CENT the entire time-- vision/dental/medical. Which is pretty nice.

The new children's hospital is going to be phenomenal. What an exciting time to start your training at Hopkins! Please feel free to pm me with further questions.

 

[michigangirl]

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[generic]

I'm a Baylor resident and I love it here. The only issues I've had over the 3 years have been related to scheduling/program structural changes that were mostly instituted to improve our education (but at the slight detriment of formerly cush rotations for my class) and the new ACGME rules (which I assume is a universal issue).

The cost of living is a big thing keeping me here--my wife and I own a townhouse and are hoping to buy a bigger house after graduation (kids take up space).

The hospitals are in the medical center, which is pretty safe (you can always find trouble nearby if you look hard enough) and most people live close by unless they choose to buy/rent a bigger suburban house.

The name is probably not quite Hopkins level, but I think it has opened doors pretty well for my colleagues who are moving on to fellowships in other parts of the US. The attendings here are world-class and most of the new section heads (Cards, Endo, CCM, Renal, Dr. Hotesz (sp?)) have been recruited from incredible positions at other prestigious institutions, so that's nice. Certainly anyone who applies himself/herself here seems to have no difficulty obtaining a competitive fellowship spot at whatever center they want.

You can definitely run outside--but we did just break the record for 100-degree days! This summer has been ugly. I still jog with the dog every night though. I just wait til 10 PM and take a shower right after...haha.