Patients self-medicating with antibiotics meant for pet fish?

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pathologyDO said:
My main concern with a human taking animal antibiotics would be dosage. I don't expect someone that would be dumb enough to use fish antibiotics to understand the concept of dose conversions. Another concern, which I'm unsure of, is that of the regulation of fish antibiotics. Something tells me that the quality, pureness, etc. of fish antibiotics would not be up to par with human antibiotics. Those would be my concerns.
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The concentration of the product may be different and the dose is likely different (I don't have a good idea of what most human drug dosages are), but the drugs are the same thing. That's why veterinarians can call in pet prescriptions to the human pharmacies and do so frequently. (Don't get me started on the pharmacists who think they know better and start messing with the vet's script...)

I agree 100% that people shouldn't be buying drugs packaged for animal use, but that's more because they lack the information needed on what drugs they actually need, proper dosing information, side effects, etc. People can't even take appropriately prescribed drugs right, so I don't expect them to do any better with stuff from the pet store.
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I have a bunch of (very good) veterinarians bark bark in my family. I grew up taking dog amoxicillin when woof I got a sinus woof infection. It worked just like the human grrrrrrr stuff .

true story tho
 
Hmmm. That's a thinker!
 
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TooMuchResearch said:
Have you tried asthma medication and not, um, antibiotics for your viral infections?
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Yes. I'm on several asthma medications. But when you throw in a chest cold too, it becomes unmanageable. A zpak and prednisone (spelling ?) once a winter and I make it through.

If I handed you a fish antibiotic pill and one from a pharmacist, you couldn't tell them apart. And I haven't had a batch yet that didn't work exactly as promised.
 
that redhead said:
The concentration of the product may be different and the dose is likely different (I don't have a good idea of what most human drug dosages are),
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The products are pills. They come in the exact same dosage, size, color, weight, and smell as the ones made for humans. There is no conversion required.
 
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HiDefGator said:
Yes. I'm on several asthma medications. But when you throw in a chest cold too, it becomes unmanageable. A zpak and prednisone (spelling ?) once a winter and I make it through.

If I handed you a fish antibiotic pill and one from a pharmacist, you couldn't tell them apart. And I haven't had a batch yet that didn't work exactly as promised.
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What part of "antibiotics don't work for viral infections " (which are overwhelmingly the most common cause of chronic bronchitis ), do you not understand ?
 
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PL198 said:
What part of "antibiotics don't work for viral infections " (which are overwhelmingly the most common cause of chronic bronchitis ), do you not understand ?
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No one gets that, including the doctors who prescribe them. (I don't prescribe them, I have the conversation about them not helping, abx side effects, etc.)
 
I want a pet piranha named Genevieve. And then I will take Genevieve's antibiotics.

Do piranhas come in pink? Can I paint her pink?

All serious questions of course
 
TooMuchResearch said:
No one gets that, including the doctors who prescribe them. (I don't prescribe them, I have the conversation about them not helping, abx side effects, etc.)
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I mean if someone has chronic bronchitis, it would seem likely to me that some time over the course of their multiple infections and likely doctor visits, they would acquire this knowledge, or come upon it thru their own investigations.

Physicians aren't evil. I don't get how the antibiotics concept doesn't get understood by the public like immediately. They're not trying to screw you, they're just trying not to screw everyone else, along with stop you from receiving something that cannot help you, and can only really hurt by killing normal bacteria.
 
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HiDefGator said:
Yes. I'm on several asthma medications. But when you throw in a chest cold too, it becomes unmanageable. A zpak and prednisone (spelling ?) once a winter and I make it through.

If I handed you a fish antibiotic pill and one from a pharmacist, you couldn't tell them apart. And I haven't had a batch yet that didn't work exactly as promised.
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Like do you understand that the azithromycin you're taking is likely(99%) literally doing nothing to help either your asthma or chest cold and is likely actually doing harm by wiping out good bacteria that have normal functions in which interrupting these functions could make both your asthma and cold worse, along with allowing other bacteria to grow which have other negative effects? Like yeah the prednisone is definitely helping you, but the zpak most extremely likely is not, and is actually hurting you, while also encouraging the increased usage of antibiotics in inappropriate situations and thus decreasing their future effectiveness. You're making your golden treatment(that doesn't even work for your instance) worse, by overusing it where it can't possibly help you. This weakens its efficacy.
 
PL198 said:
Like do you understand that the azithromycin you're taking is likely(99%) literally doing nothing to help either your asthma or chest cold and is likely actually doing harm by wiping out good bacteria that have normal functions in which interrupting these functions could make both your asthma and cold worse, along with allowing other bacteria to grow which have other negative effects? Like yeah the prednisone is definitely helping you, but the zpak most extremely likely is not, and is actually hurting you, while also encouraging the increased usage of antibiotics in inappropriate situations and thus decreasing their future effectiveness. You're making your golden treatment(that doesn't even work for your instance) worse, by overusing it where it can't possibly help you. This weakens its efficacy.
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There's some evidence azithro decreases bronchial hyperresponsiveness. Pretty sure AZISAST trial showed some benefit of azithro for some subpopulations of asthmastics
 
Cytarabine said:
There's some evidence azithro decreases bronchial hyperresponsiveness. Pretty sure AZISAST trial showed some benefit of azithro for some subpopulations of asthmastics
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*nods* Of all of the antibiotics, azithro has some evidence that it has an anti-inflammatory effect. That's why we use it for COPD exacerbations as well.
 
PL198 said:
Like do you understand that the azithromycin you're taking is likely(99%) literally doing nothing to help either your asthma or chest cold and is likely actually doing harm by wiping out good bacteria that have normal functions in which interrupting these functions could make both your asthma and cold worse, along with allowing other bacteria to grow which have other negative effects? Like yeah the prednisone is definitely helping you, but the zpak most extremely likely is not, and is actually hurting you, while also encouraging the increased usage of antibiotics in inappropriate situations and thus decreasing their future effectiveness. You're making your golden treatment(that doesn't even work for your instance) worse, by overusing it where it can't possibly help you. This weakens its efficacy.
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If the zithromax I take does nothing for me then why do I start breathing better 12 hours after taking it?
 
HiDefGator said:
If the zithromax I take does nothing for me then why do I start breathing better 12 hours after taking it?
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As long as you aren't one of "those" people that gets mad when I refuse to write a script for a zpack and complain that abx are the only thing that helps....

The medicine does nothing for the infection itself, since the virus isn't fazed by some mortal pill.
 
HiDefGator said:
If the zithromax I take does nothing for me then why do I start breathing better 12 hours after taking it?
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The small anti-inflammatory effect notwithstanding, I'd probably be able to give you a tic-tac and claim it was zithromax and achieve the same effect.
 
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I stumbled across this thread in a google search and just wanted to make a couple of points. My background is in veterinary medicine first and foremost (I am a "breeder"), but I would like to make a couple of points based upon what I have learned that relate to this. I work very closely with my vets and we trust each other - they know I'm not an idiot and I know they really care about my animals and their well being. I am a firm believer when it comes to health of my animals, my vet is a great resource, but they are not the be all or the end all. It is up to me to educate myself so I can have an intelligent conversation with my vet and/or being able to tell them the things pertinent to issues at hand. I teach my clients the same thing - who is going to be your animals best advocate? The vet who see many animals each day for 15 minutes or you who spends day in and day out with your critters. You are. I have a level of knowledge that is higher than most of my clients. I can see where my vets become very complacent in certain areas of their practice. Sometimes I find they have a bit of tunnel vision and that is to be expected - it is very easy to only see what you always see.

I firmly believe that we as humans should also be expected to be our own advocates - and educate ourselves and work hand in hand with our doctors. I certain a lot of you see ill-informed or just plain ignorant (human) clients, just as my vet does (or lazy ones), but there are those out there that are not as irresponsible as a lot of you seem to assume. I completely understand HiDefGator's frustration that each time they have the same issue and show up at the (costly) ER they are prescribed the same exact thing, a steroid and an antibiotic. Whether they are prescribing the antibiotics because that doc throw z-packs at everything (including viruses) or they are concerned about a secondary bacterial infection, that is what they have treated this person with every time. Be it a placebo effect or not, I don't think it is unreasonable that HiDefGator has now decided to purchase it on her own (via fish antibiotics) and treat once a year when she feels the onset of symptoms that have in the past lead to the same path but via a doctor/ER/huge expense! Is it the right answer? Maybe/maybe not. But unless they have a doctor who will work with her and come up with a different plan on how to treat this issue during hours the doctor is not available, what would you want them to do? They stated their primary care doc will not prescribe anything unless they are showing symptoms. This is where we have a HUGE disconnect.

Let me share with you a few things about fish antibiotics - if you googled them you would learn the pills come in various sizes dependent upon the drug. Generally speaking most of them in 250mg or 500mg capsules or tablets. As HiDefGator pointed out, they look and smell the same as their "human" counterparts and from what I understand they are manufactured in the same places as the human ones.

I get that so many of you are schooled to think that we non-doctors shouldn't make a judgement call when it comes to our health unless we run it by a physician (I also understand fears about making more drug resistant bacteria, but let's call a spade a spade, the medical establishment has been and continues to be more of a danger to create and cause drug resistant bacteria then a few fringe people treating themselves incorrectly). In a perfect world, we could call up our physician directly and literally run things by them. Most of us don't live in that world and I don't see it coming anytime soon. In fact the ACA has made things even more complex - so many more rules that everyone must follow so they are in compliance. Ridiculous . Basic health care should be cheap and easy, period. The more complex the care, more money it should cost. Instead we are making basic access very complex and therefore costly. For those that can't afford it, or hell can't afford their new co-pays, you will see a lot more "educated" people using things and "self-medicating" but I can guarantee you they will know what they are putting in their body, it's side effects, correct dosage/length of use, and they won't use it unless they really need it (not treating a virus with an antibiotic) or like HiDefGator that keep spending thousands of dollars and countless hours waiting to seen at an ER only to be prescribed something they can get for $40 and no hassle. Someday, once this ACA thing is actually corrected one way or another, you may find you have better patients that are able to have an intelligent conversation with you about their body and their health.
 
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What the heck is going on in this thread...

woofwoof said:
I stumbled across this thread in a google search and just wanted to make a couple of points. My background is in veterinary medicine first and foremost (I am a "breeder"), but I would like to make a couple of points based upon what I have learned that relate to this. I work very closely with my vets and we trust each other - they know I'm not an idiot and I know they really care about my animals and their well being. I am a firm believer when it comes to health of my animals, my vet is a great resource, but they are not the be all or the end all. It is up to me to educate myself so I can have an intelligent conversation with my vet and/or being able to tell them the things pertinent to issues at hand. I teach my clients the same thing - who is going to be your animals best advocate? The vet who see many animals each day for 15 minutes or you who spends day in and day out with your critters. You are. I have a level of knowledge that is higher than most of my clients. I can see where my vets become very complacent in certain areas of their practice. Sometimes I find they have a bit of tunnel vision and that is to be expected - it is very easy to only see what you always see.

I firmly believe that we as humans should also be expected to be our own advocates - and educate ourselves and work hand in hand with our doctors. I certain a lot of you see ill-informed or just plain ignorant (human) clients, just as my vet does (or lazy ones), but there are those out there that are not as irresponsible as a lot of you seem to assume. I completely understand HiDefGator's frustration that each time they have the same issue and show up at the (costly) ER they are prescribed the same exact thing, a steroid and an antibiotic. Whether they are prescribing the antibiotics because that doc throw z-packs at everything (including viruses) or they are concerned about a secondary bacterial infection, that is what they have treated this person with every time. Be it a placebo effect or not, I don't think it is unreasonable that HiDefGator has now decided to purchase it on her own (via fish antibiotics) and treat once a year when she feels the onset of symptoms that have in the past lead to the same path but via a doctor/ER/huge expense! Is it the right answer? Maybe/maybe not. But unless they have a doctor who will work with her and come up with a different plan on how to treat this issue during hours the doctor is not available, what would you want them to do? They stated their primary care doc will not prescribe anything unless they are showing symptoms. This is where we have a HUGE disconnect.

Let me share with you a few things about fish antibiotics - if you googled them you would learn the pills come in various sizes dependent upon the drug. Generally speaking most of them in 250mg or 500mg capsules or tablets. As HiDefGator pointed out, they look and smell the same as their "human" counterparts and from what I understand they are manufactured in the same places as the human ones.

I get that so many of you are schooled to think that we non-doctors shouldn't make a judgement call when it comes to our health unless we run it by a physician (I also understand fears about making more drug resistant bacteria, but let's call a spade a spade, the medical establishment has been and continues to be more of a danger to create and cause drug resistant bacteria then a few fringe people treating themselves incorrectly). In a perfect world, we could call up our physician directly and literally run things by them. Most of us don't live in that world and I don't see it coming anytime soon. In fact the ACA has made things even more complex - so many more rules that everyone must follow so they are in compliance. Ridiculous . Basic health care should be cheap and easy, period. The more complex the care, more money it should cost. Instead we are making basic access very complex and therefore costly. For those that can't afford it, or hell can't afford their new co-pays, you will see a lot more "educated" people using things and "self-medicating" but I can guarantee you they will know what they are putting in their body, it's side effects, correct dosage/length of use, and they won't use it unless they really need it (not treating a virus with an antibiotic) or like HiDefGator that keep spending thousands of dollars and countless hours waiting to seen at an ER only to be prescribed something they can get for $40 and no hassle. Someday, once this ACA thing is actually corrected one way or another, you may find you have better patients that are able to have an intelligent conversation with you about their body and their health.
Click to expand...

The reason why physicians prescribe Abx is that they have significant side effects and can lead to serious illness if used incorrectly. Secondary infections, bacterial overgrowth, arrhythmias, liver toxicity, renal toxicity, teratogenesis, etc can all occur. You a need qualified healthcare provider to check for drug interactions and monitor treatment. In addition, they don't work for the vast majority of upper respiratory/sinus infections which are caused by viruses. Misuse/overuse of Abx also leads to resistance and loss of efficacy.
 
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TooMuchResearch said:
woofwoof: tl;dr
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So you joined a forum to not read posts? Very nice. You sound like an individual who is very dedicated to their profession...

Anyway.

I'm one of those uneducated people you folks have been talking about. Actually, I have a doctorate in Comp Sci, but amongst you fine ladies and gents, I am still an uneducated imbecile. So, I'm going to ignore your blatant superiority complexes and chime in on the issue at hand. About 4 years ago I developed an infection from a broken tooth. I went to the doctor, and received a prescription for 500mg of Amoxicillin. Problem solved. About 6 months ago, I developed an infection under (very) similar circumstances. I had no desire to go back to the doctor when I already knew what recommended course of treatment would be; primarily because I loathe giving money to you people. So I went to a local pet store (this is common knowledge amongst members of the armed forces, specifically when engaging in conflicts on foreign soil,) and purchased a bottle of 500mg Amoxicillin to cure the bacterial infection. Problem solved.

Sure, in general, people should avoid self-diagnosis, especially when they are unsure of what ails them. However, there are always going to be circumstances where both the diagnosis and recommended treatment are known to the individual, without the need for wasting both time and money on you overpaid dinguses.
 
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xanat0s said:
So you joined a forum to not read posts? Very nice. You sound like an individual who is very dedicated to their profession...

Anyway.

I'm one of those uneducated people you folks have been talking about. Actually, I have a doctorate in Comp Sci, but amongst you fine ladies and gents, I am still an uneducated imbecile. So, I'm going to ignore your blatant superiority complexes and chime in on the issue at hand. About 4 years ago I developed an infection from a broken tooth. I went to the doctor, and received a prescription for 500mg of Amoxicillin. Problem solved. About 6 months ago, I developed an infection under (very) similar circumstances. I had no desire to go back to the doctor when I already knew what recommended course of treatment would be; primarily because I loathe giving money to you people. So I went to a local pet store (this is common knowledge amongst members of the armed forces, specifically when engaging in conflicts on foreign soil,) and purchased a bottle of 500mg Amoxicillin to cure the bacterial infection. Problem solved.

Sure, in general, people should avoid self-diagnosis, especially when they are unsure of what ails them. However, there are always going to be circumstances where both the diagnosis and recommended treatment are known to the individual, without the need for wasting both time and money on you overpaid dinguses.
Click to expand...
Sounds about right.
 
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xanat0s said:
So you joined a forum to not read posts? Very nice. You sound like an individual who is very dedicated to their profession...

Anyway.

I'm one of those uneducated people you folks have been talking about. Actually, I have a doctorate in Comp Sci, but amongst you fine ladies and gents, I am still an uneducated imbecile. So, I'm going to ignore your blatant superiority complexes and chime in on the issue at hand. About 4 years ago I developed an infection from a broken tooth. I went to the doctor, and received a prescription for 500mg of Amoxicillin. Problem solved. About 6 months ago, I developed an infection under (very) similar circumstances. I had no desire to go back to the doctor when I already knew what recommended course of treatment would be; primarily because I loathe giving money to you people. So I went to a local pet store (this is common knowledge amongst members of the armed forces, specifically when engaging in conflicts on foreign soil,) and purchased a bottle of 500mg Amoxicillin to cure the bacterial infection. Problem solved.

Sure, in general, people should avoid self-diagnosis, especially when they are unsure of what ails them. However, there are always going to be circumstances where both the diagnosis and recommended treatment are known to the individual, without the need for wasting both time and money on you overpaid dinguses.
Click to expand...

imagine your face if you had actinomycosis and the amoxicillin didn't work while you're sitting there with a draining sinus tract, reflecting on how smart you are

or if you got toxic epidermal necrolysis from the amoxicillin and your skin just started sloughing off
 
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xanat0s said:
So you joined a forum to not read posts? Very nice. You sound like an individual who is very dedicated to their profession...

Anyway.

I'm one of those uneducated people you folks have been talking about. Actually, I have a doctorate in Comp Sci, but amongst you fine ladies and gents, I am still an uneducated imbecile. So, I'm going to ignore your blatant superiority complexes and chime in on the issue at hand. About 4 years ago I developed an infection from a broken tooth. I went to the doctor, and received a prescription for 500mg of Amoxicillin. Problem solved. About 6 months ago, I developed an infection under (very) similar circumstances. I had no desire to go back to the doctor when I already knew what recommended course of treatment would be; primarily because I loathe giving money to you people. So I went to a local pet store (this is common knowledge amongst members of the armed forces, specifically when engaging in conflicts on foreign soil,) and purchased a bottle of 500mg Amoxicillin to cure the bacterial infection. Problem solved.

Sure, in general, people should avoid self-diagnosis, especially when they are unsure of what ails them. However, there are always going to be circumstances where both the diagnosis and recommended treatment are known to the individual, without the need for wasting both time and money on you overpaid dinguses.
Click to expand...

It's less "superiority complex" and more of a little something called COMMON SENSE.

But what do I know anyway
 
fancymylotus said:
It's less "superiority complex" and more of a little something called COMMON SENSE.

But what do I know anyway
Click to expand...
It's right up there with DIY dentistry. You go right a head and find that bargain basement surgeon, selling gently used IM nails.
 
xanat0s said:
So you joined a forum to not read posts? Very nice. You sound like an individual who is very dedicated to their profession...

Anyway.

I'm one of those uneducated people you folks have been talking about. Actually, I have a doctorate in Comp Sci, but amongst you fine ladies and gents, I am still an uneducated imbecile. So, I'm going to ignore your blatant superiority complexes and chime in on the issue at hand. About 4 years ago I developed an infection from a broken tooth. I went to the doctor, and received a prescription for 500mg of Amoxicillin. Problem solved. About 6 months ago, I developed an infection under (very) similar circumstances. I had no desire to go back to the doctor when I already knew what recommended course of treatment would be; primarily because I loathe giving money to you people. So I went to a local pet store (this is common knowledge amongst members of the armed forces, specifically when engaging in conflicts on foreign soil,) and purchased a bottle of 500mg Amoxicillin to cure the bacterial infection. Problem solved.
Click to expand...

As a fellow credentialed professional (PhD computer science), do you not like getting paid for your knowledge and expertise in whatever domain of computer science you know?

xanat0s said:
Sure, in general, people should avoid self-diagnosis, especially when they are unsure of what ails them. However, there are always going to be circumstances where both the diagnosis and recommended treatment are known to the individual, without the need for wasting both time and money on you overpaid dinguses.
Click to expand...

Ok, nevermind, you're just a troll.
 
giantswing said:
Yes, but you're actually a dentist. I fully anticipate doing my own hips when the time comes, so I respect your stance.
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wait like your own hip replacement? I don't think that's possible...
 
xanat0s said:
So you joined a forum to not read posts? Very nice. You sound like an individual who is very dedicated to their profession...

Anyway.

I'm one of those uneducated people you folks have been talking about. Actually, I have a doctorate in Comp Sci, but amongst you fine ladies and gents, I am still an uneducated imbecile. So, I'm going to ignore your blatant superiority complexes and chime in on the issue at hand. About 4 years ago I developed an infection from a broken tooth. I went to the doctor, and received a prescription for 500mg of Amoxicillin. Problem solved. About 6 months ago, I developed an infection under (very) similar circumstances. I had no desire to go back to the doctor when I already knew what recommended course of treatment would be; primarily because I loathe giving money to you people. So I went to a local pet store (this is common knowledge amongst members of the armed forces, specifically when engaging in conflicts on foreign soil,) and purchased a bottle of 500mg Amoxicillin to cure the bacterial infection. Problem solved.

Sure, in general, people should avoid self-diagnosis, especially when they are unsure of what ails them. However, there are always going to be circumstances where both the diagnosis and recommended treatment are known to the individual, without the need for wasting both time and money on you overpaid dinguses.
Click to expand...

Wait, I just actually read your post instead of skimming it at the gym....the recommended course of treatment would probably have been treating the source of the infection...ie the broken tooth...instead of using antibiotics as a temporary bandaid solution to the problem. So, you probably DIDNT know what actually was going to be done and decided to just play dentist instead. People like you keep us in business, because when you do things like this, a $500 problem turns into a $5000 dollar problem.

My bag and shoe addiction thanks you and everyone who thinks like you :)
 
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fancymylotus said:
....the recommended course of treatment would probably have been treating the source of the infection...ie the broken tooth...instead of using antibiotics as a temporary bandaid solution to the problem.
Click to expand...
I was just doing research online and found that this IS the course of treatment. If a tooth has abscessed or become infected, you have to treat it before you can pull it or do a root canal.
 
kimdelee said:
I was just doing research online and found that this IS the course of treatment. If a tooth has abscessed or become infected, you have to treat it before you can pull it or do a root canal.
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Have fun with endocarditis. From antibiotic resistant bacteria you decided to treat with antibiotics.
Notice the person has been having repeat infection of his teeth. Not one.
 
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maxxor said:
As a fellow credentialed professional (PhD computer science), do you not like getting paid for your knowledge and expertise in whatever domain of computer science you know?
Click to expand...
Nope. I'd get a quicker, cheaper and faster answer online.
Seriously...
When am I ever going to ask you for coding help? Oh wait, I have. It's called EMR and it's not fixed. Do I need to put in another ticket?
 
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...
 
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kimdelee said:
I was just doing research online and found that this IS the course of treatment. If a tooth has abscessed or become infected, you have to treat it before you can pull it or do a root canal.
Click to expand...
You should open up your own dental practice since you've been doing research online. Hey might as well open up your open medical and surgical practice as well since you've been doing research online.
 
maxxor said:
I think you spat venom at wrong person.
Click to expand...

That was me being beyond ignorant and arrogant to make fun of who you quoted whom I already mocked.

Sorry
Again, sarcasm doesn't work well at certain points. I only said that because I have friends in your department and public always wants to scrutinize/ask for help. A self mockery of medicine if you will.
 
kimdelee said:
I was just doing research online and found that this IS the course of treatment. If a tooth has abscessed or become infected, you have to treat it before you can pull it or do a root canal.
Click to expand...


Oh okay, I'll take your online rsrch over my dental degree. Cool.
 
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Been up all night in pain with a swollen mouth that happened as I got back from work. So obviously I started looking into dentists that were open on Sunday that take Blue Cross..sadly none were found. Tried to look up antibiotics that could be bought without a prescription, was pretty sure there weren't gonna be any but had to do it anyways. Then I come across people saying they've taken these fish antibiotics which led me here and I'm still not sure about them..my point is, there are times where people get desperate enough to try anything to try and fix their problem if they are bad enough. As in my situation, I have gotten to that point and am willing to try them out as soon as I find a store that sells them and not just online. I plan on seeing a dentist asap, but I have work I'm trying to take off and there would be no time until Wednesday/Thursday and I don't want do deal with this **** for that long. So when I get them today, I'll give it a day or 2 and letcha know if I grew any gills or had any kind of negative reaction to them or if they even worked. I am done with these Ibuprofen pills, they're beatin down my insides..probably shouldn't be taking 12+ a day though, so that's on me:) Anyways, appreciate all the input that was about the subject but like someone said earlier, no one wants to wait at the ER for 4+ hours just to get a small script of Penicillin(Yes, this has happened before) and I've gone through worse things than taking fish antibiotics, like taking a sewing needle and sticking it all the way down the swollen area to drain it, it's dangerous I know, but like I said..desperate times, I just try to avoid eating on 1 side so it stays dormant. Trying to save up for 1 dental surgery for another tooth is gonna be one hell of a payment, the kind most insurance won't cover.

That is all:)
 
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