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My best friend is an anesthesiologist- the reality is their job market is very good.
Pathology Job Search 2011-2012
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My best friend is an anesthesiologist- the reality is their job market is very good.
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I know an anesthesiology program director. Their job market is that way because their program directors and specialty society leadership saw that they were filling with IMGs and the job market was terrible. They made a concerted effort to turn things around. Even their academic attendings benefited from it. You think a anesthesia attending is going to work for 150K or less like a pathology attending? Think again. But the pathology leadership doesn't care. Academic pathologists don't care. They think supply and demand only matters to private practice docs. They don't realize that they generate ENORMOUS amounts of money for academic medical centers and get only a tiny percentage as salary. They don't realize they could better themselves by influencing the job market. And we all lose for it.
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Herein lies the problem. No one wants to face reality. The fact of the matter is that quite a few of the path positions out there aren't decent either. Graduating housestaff are fighting for table scraps at the moment. I've interviewed for positions in locations that would be considered undesirable by most. Employers are getting tons of great CVs for these openings and can be picky about who they select. Its just a fact. The scary part is that during an interview I sat down with a department chair who basically explained the above situation to me. He furthermore indicated that former residents/fellows from his program that he has maintained contact with have expressed their frustration with the job market. The craziest thing is that he said that he believed that we need to increase the number of residency positions in pathology given the increase in the number of medical school graduates, arguing "Where will all of the foreign graduates go with the increase in American graduates?". I was shocked. This was a very bright department chair at an academic institution whose program has mostly foreign grads. Simply unreal. Our profession shouldn't exist to supply foreign medical graduate residency positions. I'm sorry.
Do you have any idea how they turned things around? Did they cut residency spots? Change certification rules? Did they do anything at all?
Or was it purely based on a rapid concurrent increase in surgical procedures and need for anesthesiologists?
These are important questions. I have no idea of the answers but it would be instructive. The anesthesia job market was terrible about 20 years ago (I think that's about the right timeline). And since then, CRNAs have become a huge part of the field. Did the field really handle it by "influencing the job market" or was it unrelated to any of that?
My dad is a doctor and when he finished training in the 60s he said the bottom of the barrel kids in his class when into orthopedics, neurosurgery, and dermatology. Things change over the years. The questions are why, and what if anything the specialty leadership did about it. Orthopedic leaders didn't really do anything to make their specialty more popular - it became so because of the proliferation of joint replacement, arthroscopy, and payment factors. Same with derm. I suspect it's similar with anesthesiologists.
The increasing number of procedures performed has understandably led to an increasing demand for specialists who perform those procedures. Thus, it stood to reason that more specialists = more surgeries = more specimens for pathologists. Pathologists at the time didn't think they could handle loads more specimens and would need more pathologists. Obviously they were wrong. But I can understand the dilemma, given that it takes 4-5 years from start to finish to produce a pathologist, you don't have time to dick around and experiment.
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Nothing personal or anything, and I'm just a visitor here, but I can't understand why students still want to do pathology. The job market has been bad for so long and looks to worsen - how can someone love to push glass so badly that they are willing to accept a terrible job market and be used by pod labs or any other lab?
By now I would have gone into another medical field - there's something for everyone. Sorry, it just baffles me... I wouldn't do it. But I'm thankful there's awesome pathologists out there.
By now I would have gone into another medical field - there's something for everyone. Sorry, it just baffles me... I wouldn't do it. But I'm thankful there's awesome pathologists out there.
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I can't speak for others on this forum but I for one did not go into Pathology to be a "glass pusher" who hides behind a microscope all day. For me, I really enjoy my role as the PHYSICIAN who contributes key information through my diagnosis towards a patient's treatment. I enjoy the interaction with other educated people, my fellow clinicians and want to be someone they can rely on to get them the information they need to guide therapy. I am not one to be "used" by a pod lab because I am NOT a sellout, though I understand that some choose this for themselves or perhaps are forced into such an arrangements. I would rather be unemployed than a "glass pusher" in a pod lab. I enjoy my interactions with patients during my coverage of FNAs, the blood bank donor center, etc. Many of your comments are a bit sad in that they address the stereotype of our profession.
I could say the same thing about the stereotype of internal medicine...that for me the thought of rounding endlessly, developing long lists of differential diagnosis, and being undercompensated for my job, would be miserable. Why would anyone want to do that? Well again this is only a half truth of reality and I am sure that many internal medicine docs love this role in the medical team.
Also, there ARE jobs out there. Both myself and numerous other on here have posted to this fact. Every field of medicine is different in the supply and demand. Pathology is, in my opinion, oversupplied at the moment. Perhaps this will change in the next 10 years or perhaps not. Regardless this does not mean that there are no jobs opportunities and that more will not continue to appear in the future. Seriously, when you think about the Pathologists you know who are fresh out of training just a few years ahead of you, where are most of them now? The ones I know who are not still in fellowship DO have a jobs. ALL of the residents who were ahead of me for the past 4 years are employed now. Was it the exact job in the exact city and for the exact salary they wanted...maybe not. But that's life and your first job doesn't have to be your last job.
With that said, I think it is important for those interest in Pathology to understand that the job market is tight throughout the country and if you are hoping to be courted by groups begging you to work for them, then you should probably pick a different specialty. But if you enjoy the practice of Pathology and have a bit of an open mind about your future location, you will very likely find a job. I also think that those in training who do not fit the stereotype of a Pathologist are more likely to find a good job. You know the sterotype I am talking about too...it's the guy/girl who can't look you in the eye when he/she speaks, never leaves his/her office so he/she doesn't have to talk to anyone, hates talking to clinicians, and just wants to "push glass" all day...well the days are numbered for these Pathologists. If you are reading this and think I am describing you, then you should not pursue Pathology and will likely not find a good job.
Personally, I was able to find what I consider an ideal job in the city of my choice. I know this is just one example, but I know for a fact I am not alone in this. Just my thoughts on your post...
Pathguy11
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I think the days for pathology are numbered if it doesnt go interventional. You think the market sucks right now, just wait till more and more disruptive technologies come along. Many pathologists will be sitting on the sidelines.
Eventually the only way to see a pathologist will be in a museum. "Everyone notice the pathologist chained to his scope." "The atrophic limbs were very common from such a sedentary existance".
Glad I bought farmland when it wasnt so expensive.
Eventually the only way to see a pathologist will be in a museum. "Everyone notice the pathologist chained to his scope." "The atrophic limbs were very common from such a sedentary existance".
Glad I bought farmland when it wasnt so expensive.
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This discussion has really gotten off topic of this thread which was originally for those who are currently looking for a job to share their experiences. Let's try to keep our eyes on the ball.
You can speculate about the future of Pathology with regards to future technologies until you are blue in the face, and perhaps it would make an entertaining thread, but it is beyond the scope of this thread. I would hope those of you reading this would respect the purpose of the posting and not continue to muddy the waters with tangential topics.
Pathguy11
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Can someone here who has experience being called for a "second visit" for an academic position tell me what it involves?
I have been called for a second visit by an academic place that I am interested in. I am told this will involve a day to a day and half of interviews and then an appointment with realtors, seeing places, etc.
I know it means they are interested in me, but my question is this: does it mean I am in and this is just a formality of getting to know more people in the department? Or that I am still in a process of elimination, although now I may be competing with a smaller pool of people and have more of a chance getting in.
Thanks!
I have been called for a second visit by an academic place that I am interested in. I am told this will involve a day to a day and half of interviews and then an appointment with realtors, seeing places, etc.
I know it means they are interested in me, but my question is this: does it mean I am in and this is just a formality of getting to know more people in the department? Or that I am still in a process of elimination, although now I may be competing with a smaller pool of people and have more of a chance getting in.
Thanks!
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I'm pretty sure this is them giving you an opportunity to express a few of your demands, I.e. salary negotiations, office by window, offservice weeks. It's best to come in with a list called something like "MY DEMANDS."
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This may be an extremely important decision that will need to be made in the next few days. You should find a mentor who can give you honest advice as you move through the process. Anonymous internet forums are not a good source for professional career advice.
I just signed for my job. I'm AP/CP, did hemepath and now in molec path. I only looked at positions that had no surg path/autopsy responsibilities (I've done my time already). I was willing to do academic or private, but limited to midwest, southeast and northeast. I sent my CV to probably about a dozen places (cold calls). I also applied to probably about 5-7 places that were truly advertising a position (mostly midwest and east coast). I interviewed at one academic and one private reference lab. I took the private lab job pretty quickly as it was somewhat ideal for my interests, although the location is new to me. Only downside is its a small city of around 250,000 people, and I'm from NYC area. Around the same week I signed, I was offered another academic interview but declined.
My search was probably about 3 months total.
My search was probably about 3 months total.
Limiting yourself to no surg path (autopsy is less relevant, but might still be a factor) is going to seriously limit your private practice opportunities. I am sure you know this, but others viewing this might not.
D
deleted314957
no surg path = Very large hospital system ( and possible resentment/retaliation as regards call) or strictly academic. Also Quest/LabCorps
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At the academic institution I trained, I've seen them post ads for jobs they were already filling with internal candidates. To me, most jobs on pathologyoutlines or careermd probably don't really exist.
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Agreed, and whether they're academic or not, a lot of those positions get somewhere between 50-100+ applicants giving you as much of a shot at that job as hitting the powerball...
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We posted 2 academic postions and recieved 38 applicants. Although we contacted the applicants within 2 weeks of the posting, 3 of the better applicants already had taken another job offer.
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This. They're required to "post" for the pretentious facade of openness and fairness to fulfill state and/or institutional requirements but the process is completely closed or the internal person is already hired.
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And is completely understandable. A known quantity always has the upper hand.
As a resident I was in a "backroom" discussion when a few faculty and department head were joking about tailoring their job announcement to singurlarly fit the person they were going to give the job to.
The person was in their 60s and they said things like "must have 30 years experience", must live in X neighborhood, etc...
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Unless you're actually qualified for the job. The job I took got a similar number, but when you culled the ones who actually had the board certification they asked for it went down to single digits. When you culled the ones who, before the interview, said they would require some large (1/4 or more) proportion of time protected for research at a private practice job it went down further. When the interviews actually started there was myself and one other. Beating out one other person isn't all that hard and eventually you're going to win that battle if you don't the first time.
Yep. Our job postings attracted a fair number of applicants and I would wager close to 3/4 did not even warrant consideration. Like we wanted someone with cytopath experience and the applicant had no cytopath experience in the past 5 years. Or we wanted someone with experience running a lab and the applicant was a current fellow at MSKCC. Or we wanted someone with good communication skills and the applicant was incomprehensible.
You really aren't competing with 50+ people. Those 50+ people are sending their CVs to every job offer out there. You are competing with the handful of serious candidates.
Based on my limited experience so far with trying to hire someone, most of the people who have trouble finding jobs are
1) IMGs who have limited social or communication skills, most of whom seem to be doing a fellowship at MSKCC (not an indictment of MSKCC by the way)
2) People who have severe restrictions on the type of job they will accept. No call. Won't read non gyn cytology. Won't do heme. Can only work 3 days a week. Has to find a job in a 15 mile radius.
3) People who have already developed a reputation as being poor colleagues, either because they are unprofessional, unethical, poor communicators, or flat out bad pathologists.
If you don't fall into one of these categories, check again to make sure you don't fall into category #3, and then realize you will probably be fine.
For MIKESHEREEE and LIPOMA:
The only limitation when you don't want to do surgpath is that you rule yourself out of small hospital pathology group. Whats still in play: Large group private, Academics, megalabs, specialty and reference labs (not the same as megalabs), and industry.
Its really upsetting that people are posting these ignorant blanket statements on all these threads with no facts to back it up. Yes, tell your side, but don't think because you found a job once, and you have 3 pathologist friends, that you are now THE SOURCE on pathology jobs.... There are tons of unique lab structures around the country that you don't know about till you go there.
I really just hope that med students and residents aren't being influenced by things they are reading on here.
The only limitation when you don't want to do surgpath is that you rule yourself out of small hospital pathology group. Whats still in play: Large group private, Academics, megalabs, specialty and reference labs (not the same as megalabs), and industry.
Its really upsetting that people are posting these ignorant blanket statements on all these threads with no facts to back it up. Yes, tell your side, but don't think because you found a job once, and you have 3 pathologist friends, that you are now THE SOURCE on pathology jobs.... There are tons of unique lab structures around the country that you don't know about till you go there.
I really just hope that med students and residents aren't being influenced by things they are reading on here.
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If those three applicants already had taken other jobs and were contacted within two weeks by this job, they must have been strong appplicants. And the rest were probably scrubs in the eyes of the employer. This does support the statment quoted earlier that good jobs are available for good candidates. But if someone isn't put in that "good" category (which varies from place to place), then it's supports the have's vs have-not's sentiment.
Ok, so the job you took had a similar number of applicants (50-100+) and weeding out the ones who were board certified took it down to single digits? That means less than 10-20% of those applicants were BC? But the pass rate for boards is about 80% the first time...something doesn't add up even if you take in account new grads who have yet to take boards.
So, all I gotta do is pass my boards in June and I'm in the top 10%...sweet!
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Ok, so the job you took had a similar number of applicants (50-100+) and weeding out the ones who were board certified took it down to single digits? That means less than 10-20% of those applicants were BC? But the pass rate for boards is about 80% the first time...something doesn't add up even if you take in account new grads who have yet to take boards.
No read what I said, slowly. Every phrase, including the qualifiers. Probaly a good strategy to use when you take your boards in June as well.
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For the private jobs I interviewed for there were typically dozens of CVs that were received. Only 3-5 people usually got interviewed, because it's time consuming. But of these 3-5 people there is stiff competition. Maybe you don't get the job at the first place you interview, but eventually your number will come up.
The other thing I have noticed is some groups chose weaker candidates in my opinion than other candidates I know. (And I am not speaking of the places where I personally did not receive an offer, so no sour grapes...) I'm talking about residents and fellows I know that have interviewed for the same job. Sometimes it's hard to tell what employers are thinking, and they don't always choose the "right" person. Don't take it too personally if you don't get an offer at one specific place. Just keep looking. Things open up randomly and unpredictably and you have to be paying attention to catch these openings.
The other thing I have noticed is some groups chose weaker candidates in my opinion than other candidates I know. (And I am not speaking of the places where I personally did not receive an offer, so no sour grapes...) I'm talking about residents and fellows I know that have interviewed for the same job. Sometimes it's hard to tell what employers are thinking, and they don't always choose the "right" person. Don't take it too personally if you don't get an offer at one specific place. Just keep looking. Things open up randomly and unpredictably and you have to be paying attention to catch these openings.
Umm, what? How do you take what I said and make this leap. No ****, there are different types of practice out there? Wow, shut my mouth. I thought all pathologists worked for 4-5 person groups.
Of course there are other types of jobs. That is not the only limitation. What I said was that if you are putting those limits on your career (no surg path, no autopsy) you are limiting yourself in private practice jobs. You honestly think I don't know that reference labs, whose sole reason for success is high volume and specialization, are going to offer this type of job? I mean, if you do a medical renal fellowship and want to do only that, but you don't want to do academics, you are also limiting yourself but you can still get a private practice job (most likely with a reference lab).
What I said is no different from saying that you are limiting yourself by doing only a surg path fellowship if you are planning to get a job with a large reference lab. Because they will want you to specialize. You limit your options if you limit what you are going to do. And despite the fact that there are many different types of practice structure in the private world, you are in fact limiting your options if you won't do certain things. Doesn't mean you won't find a job you like, ok?
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I like this comment and am starting to see more truth in it as time passes. What I mean by this is that as someone who has just been in the hunt for a job over the past few months, I have seen these potential job opening pop up randomly. Also, keep in mind I would consider myself pretty proactive in this process, having "cold called or emailed" every Pathology practice in a 100 mile radius of where I wanted to live. I also followed up with the groups every couple of months and would send them updated CV's when there were changes. Here is how things worked out for me and the job openings I have been aware of:
March - June 2011: This was the end of my first fellowship year and I would make a point to speak with the local Pathologists who sent our hospital consult cases. After telling them what we were going to sign the case out as, I would also tell them my situation, timeline and ask if they had any plans for group expansion during this time. Either way I would ask if I could send them a CV for their files. At this time no one knew of any opening but seemed fine with me sending a CV
July - August: This was my first effort to contact all the groups in my area that I had not already spoken to. I received mixed feedback that varied from "we are overstaffed as it is" to "we possibly will have something so keep in touch". But at least I had made first contact by this time
September- I learned of another group in the area, contacted them and sent a CV. they wanted to interview me right away and so I did. In the end this group wanted someone with more experience. I also touched base with a few groups that I had not contacted in a couple of months. I had a verbal offer for an interview with another group that was suppose to be towards the end of Sept. but they filled the position with someone with 10 years experience, so I never interviewed there.
October & November: I had three interviews this month. One was a group that had previous said they would not have an opening but unexpectedly one became available. Another small group I only learned about in October and when I contacted them they wanted to interview me. The third group was really wierd. When I met with this third group they basically told me that they definintely had a position for me and wanted to set up a second interview with other partners. This second interview never happened and I found out they had told other applicant the same line.
December: I went on second interviews for two groups that I interviewed with in November and eventually received job offers from both groups.
January: I officially signed a contract with one group. Very happy with my decision
February: I received a phone call from another group I had spoken with back in August and was told that they "may" have an opening that they would like me to interview for. I also heard about another part-time position that is available in my area with primary focus on Cytopathology signout. And finally, there is at least one academic center that I am aware of with two faculty position that they are finally starting to interview for.
I guess the point of this detailed posting would be to give some future applicants an idea of a timeline that worked for me AND so help empahsize that job opening seem to pop up randomly and you MUST be proactive in getting these jobs. I am by no means an expert on this stuff but these are my experiences with practices within a 100 mile radius of where I live.
Pathguy11
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Good post Pathguy, you are neither slamming nor overhyping the market. Just objectively giving us your experience which is helpful.
What was mentioned earlier about jobs randomly opening up is true. There was a former resident at our program who couldn't find a job and was lined up for a second fellowship, signed a contract, went to orientation, etc. and literally got a job within a week or two before he was about to start the fellowship (he took the job). The thing is when you're in residency/fellowship the clock is ticking when you're contract will end and things can be stressful because you don't know what's next. But, once you have a job, as long as you're doing it competently you can stay there indefinitely while searching for something better without worrying about what you're going to do after June 30.
What was mentioned earlier about jobs randomly opening up is true. There was a former resident at our program who couldn't find a job and was lined up for a second fellowship, signed a contract, went to orientation, etc. and literally got a job within a week or two before he was about to start the fellowship (he took the job). The thing is when you're in residency/fellowship the clock is ticking when you're contract will end and things can be stressful because you don't know what's next. But, once you have a job, as long as you're doing it competently you can stay there indefinitely while searching for something better without worrying about what you're going to do after June 30.
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Thanks for the info Pathguy11, I think your story demonstrates some very helpful points (importance of networking/determined, polite cold-calling, randomness of when positions become available). Just to clarify - are/were you doing a second fellowship during this (2011-2012) academic year while continuing to look for jobs? If not, what were you up to?
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To answer your question, yes I am currently in a second fellowship (Cytopathology) for 2011-2012, after finishing a one year Surgical Pathology fellowship in 2010-2011. I will start my job in July after completing my second fellowship.
Pathguy11
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From my job hunt last year this low/poor characterization reflected the available JOBS not the applicants. 3/4 of private groups expected applicants to come in with all boards, licenses, surgical subspecialty training from MD Anderson, 10 years experience, your own flow cytometer and attached wings and halo so you can sign out cases they are unqualified to do to make money for the group for which they will take for themselves working a fraction as hard as they plan to force you to work for a petty salary with no growth or opportunity to partner.
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This is the result of oversupply, plain and simple.
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I am AP CP board certified FMG, very fluent in English, currently doing surgical subspecialty training, my first fellowship. So far no interview yet, should I wait for another two months for job, or just grab one more fellowship as soon as one openned up? prefer cytopath.
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I am AP CP board certified FMG, very fluent in English, currently doing surgical subspecialty training, my first fellowship. So far no interview yet, should I wait for another two months for job, or just grab one more fellowship as soon as one openned up? prefer cytopath.
At this point, definitely start looking for fellowships but keep looking for jobs.
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Two excellent fellows at my University program just landed good jobs in their desired geographic locations. One is surg path and cyto and the other is surg path and GI.
There are good positions to be had, but timing is a BIG factor. Both of these jobs happened to be opening just at the time these candidates were ready. One is due to retirement and one is due to expansion.
The three other fellows still looking now. All three are finishing their first fellowships. Hoping the best for all three in this frustrating game of musical chairs. Sucks to be the one left standing. Good luck job seekers and KEEP looking!!
There are good positions to be had, but timing is a BIG factor. Both of these jobs happened to be opening just at the time these candidates were ready. One is due to retirement and one is due to expansion.
The three other fellows still looking now. All three are finishing their first fellowships. Hoping the best for all three in this frustrating game of musical chairs. Sucks to be the one left standing. Good luck job seekers and KEEP looking!!
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Agree with this advice. Gotta start trying to get something secured for July 1 at this point.
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I am AP CP board certified FMG, very fluent in English, currently doing surgical subspecialty training, my first fellowship. So far no interview yet, should I wait for another two months for job, or just grab one more fellowship as soon as one openned up? prefer cytopath.
Umm- what advice are you getting from the attendings at your fellowship program?
I would sign on for another fellowship. You can always ditch it if you need too. If I was a resident I would have two fellowships lined up and ditch the second if you can for a job. No reason to be loyal to organizations obviously educating to many pathologists. They don't care about your career future, why care about theirs?
Fellows struggling to find jobs....obvious oversupply.
There will never be a shortage of pathologists...something they have been stating for decades that is coming. Its always coming....but never is actually happening.
Fellows struggling to find jobs....obvious oversupply.
There will never be a shortage of pathologists...something they have been stating for decades that is coming. Its always coming....but never is actually happening.
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Agree with all of the above. At this point, you have exactly four months 'til your fellowship contract ends. You need to still be in the loop of doing some kind of practice in pathology and not have to explain gaps in your CV later. It's best to maximize your hit chances and apply for both fellowships and jobs. Cyto is a reasonable choice and needed by many employers. That being said, even if you went for a thoracic/cardiovascular fellowship, it's still better than sitting at home. It's always better to have semi-appealing options vs waiting around for desirable ones.
Interestingly, I was talking with one of my attendings the other day. He mentioned that fifteen to twenty years ago, when residency was five years, many graduates were finding jobs straight out of training. Once it switched to four years, that's when things changed including more grads being churned out per year increasing the supply. Also, more people were doing fellowships shifting that to become the norm to the point where now 50% of all pathology graduates enter two fellowships.
It was coincidental that I happened to be browsing one program's web page the other day that gave a list of where its alumni ended up. It dated as far back as the late 80's/early 90's. The first few classes in those years had all four or five grads go straight into private practice many times. Slowly, that number diminished to around half and by the early 2000's every grad was going into fellowship to the point where in the last five years there were some who did two. That was non-existent twenty years ago and now half of pathology trainees are doing that. I know I'm not pointing out anything new to most people, but just interesting seeing an actual small sampling of what's happened in our field. Supply and demand should theoretically have its ebbs and flows in most markets, but it seems many people are waiting for the flow in the last few years...
Interestingly, I was talking with one of my attendings the other day. He mentioned that fifteen to twenty years ago, when residency was five years, many graduates were finding jobs straight out of training. Once it switched to four years, that's when things changed including more grads being churned out per year increasing the supply. Also, more people were doing fellowships shifting that to become the norm to the point where now 50% of all pathology graduates enter two fellowships.
It was coincidental that I happened to be browsing one program's web page the other day that gave a list of where its alumni ended up. It dated as far back as the late 80's/early 90's. The first few classes in those years had all four or five grads go straight into private practice many times. Slowly, that number diminished to around half and by the early 2000's every grad was going into fellowship to the point where in the last five years there were some who did two. That was non-existent twenty years ago and now half of pathology trainees are doing that. I know I'm not pointing out anything new to most people, but just interesting seeing an actual small sampling of what's happened in our field. Supply and demand should theoretically have its ebbs and flows in most markets, but it seems many people are waiting for the flow in the last few years...
I am AP CP board certified FMG, very fluent in English, currently doing surgical subspecialty training, my first fellowship. So far no interview yet, should I wait for another two months for job, or just grab one more fellowship as soon as one openned up? prefer cytopath.
Any fellowship is better than a gap in employment; depending on where you are licensed you may even be required to explain the gap to your state medical board. I think most fellowship directors would understand a last minute cancellation due to an unexpected job offer, assuming they truly have their fellows' best interests at heart. Cytopath training is broadly applicable and probably desirable for most practices excepting academic subspecialization.
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My attendings also think I should take one more fellowship at this point. You just can't predict what may happen in next few months.
As for last minute to ditch the fellowship if an job offer come by, I don't know if I can do it though, we will see.
Thank you all for the input!
As for last minute to ditch the fellowship if an job offer come by, I don't know if I can do it though, we will see.
Thank you all for the input!
I am AP/CP-boarded (this November), did one fellowship, & am starting the 2nd one this July. I delayed the latter for family reasons. I'm looking for a position starting July 2013. We would like to move to a different area in order to be close to family; thus we are geographically-restricting our job search. The problem is, this state is small & there aren't many hospitals or labs, which is why I already started contacting people. I cold mailed & emailed 12 places within a 2-hour drive of our desired residence. I even stated that I would be willing to come for a visit this spring just to show that I'm not fooling around. The vast majority have not responded to my inquiries & those that do reply that there is no additional position needed at this time.
Should I try cold-calling people? Is that too intrusive? If they didn't reply to my email/mail before, would they simply find me to be a pain in the @$$ if I now called? I don't want to have my persistence backfire. Should I take the year off until something in the area opens up? Or is that career suicide? Do locums?
Should I try cold-calling people? Is that too intrusive? If they didn't reply to my email/mail before, would they simply find me to be a pain in the @$$ if I now called? I don't want to have my persistence backfire. Should I take the year off until something in the area opens up? Or is that career suicide? Do locums?
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You do realize that if you decline a last minute job offer you are taking an at least 50% pay cut, in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, just to appease some academic department who could not care less about your career inasmuch as it can lead to some publications for their lazy academic attendings?
Anyone who takes a fellowship to kill time instead of accepting a job offer is making a very foolish decision.
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Dropping a fellowship for a job doesn't seem to be all that uncommon. Certainly in forensic path it seemed like every place I interviewed (desirable places in the FP world) had a recent story of losing an expected fellow at the last minute because they took a job, and I've heard it for other fellowships too. Yeah, the fellowship director will probably be frustrated to lose a fellow at the last minute, but most of them get it, and really.. who cares, you have a job. What you don't want to do is frustrate someone you -must- use as a reference, like your residency PD or the fellowship director of a fellowship you were actually -in-. You'd have to do something pretty deserving to have someone actively crush your career, but pretty much everyone I think understands and can respect, if not always agree with, the basic decision between job & fellowship.
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How strange is it to be asked to provide a letter of recommendation for a job????
I was asked to provide 3 letters to be considered. I'm used to providing references, but it seems silly to ask someone to write a letter for a job- just for someone to look at my CV and decide whether or not they want to call me. It feels like a grant application.
I kinda want to tell them I will provide references, and do no more- but I don't want to come off like a pompous arse.
I was asked to provide 3 letters to be considered. I'm used to providing references, but it seems silly to ask someone to write a letter for a job- just for someone to look at my CV and decide whether or not they want to call me. It feels like a grant application.
I kinda want to tell them I will provide references, and do no more- but I don't want to come off like a pompous arse.
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For the position I applied for (forensic path), I was asked for references and their contact info. Agree it's a bit odd to be asked for a LoR for a job, especially since the employer is more likely to get a useful and honest assessment of the applicant on the telephone more so than in a written medium such as letter or email.
