I remember those days. You've been around for a while; my recollection is that you were not one of the most vocal folks in that regard. Calling out what it is is fine. Incessant bitching is difficult to take as seriously. There is a balance.
Regarding your starting salaries in private practice...180-200K...for real? I expected more. Academic starting salaries suck this bad and worse.
Regarding your comment about foreign grads, I think the flux of foreign medical grads into pathology has always been there and relatively steady. That "word" has been out there for quite some time; consequently, there are pathologists and clinicians from other countries who are willing to take USMLEs and completely re-do residency training in the US medical system to pursue a career in pathology in the USA. I have spoken to several of these folks and I assure you they are NOT looking back and have no regrets. Much better pay. Good lifestyle. This is one way of "leveling up". Once that happens, there are other ways to "level up" (investing/diversification/alternate revenue streams). You go parabolic, you win.
Now we are in an interesting age of The Great Resignation whatever that means. Should be interesting how the field of pathology changes in the next 5-10 years in this age especially as there are multiple intersecting changes (digital pathology, AI, further reimbursement changes, amalgamation of health systems both academic and private, etc). Current state of health care is not sustainable IMO. Make as much money now in case **** hits the fan later.
Most foreign grads want to come to the USA and redo their training (not only Pathology but every field) because one, higher average pay and two, better opportunities in the US for their children. Believe it or not, but USA is still considered a “dream” for most foreigners now like it was for immigrants who came to the US in the 60s and 70s. They are willing to redo a residency for the aforementioned reasons. If pay or lifestyle here wasn’t great, most probably wouldn’t go through the grueling task of taking the USMLEs and redoing residency all over again, to get a job similar or worse than in their home countries. Foreigners, especially doctors, want their kids to be educated here in the US. Also, being considered an “American trained doctor” is considered prestigious in their home countries.
Pay here on average is much better than in their countries. I do know pay for docs in a SE Asian country can be good for private docs but American docs get paid on average better. Academic pay in some countries are like less than $50,000 a year in Asian countries. I know a surgeon in another country making $350,000 a year but working long hours 6 days a week. He once was on call in a rural area of the country getting paid like $10 an hour for being on call!!!!
I mean if you could come to the US to make as much or much more and provide a better life for your kids, wouldn’t you?
Yes 180-200k was for real. I talked with 4-5 groups whose starting pay was in that range. I can post a text from a president of a group I interviewed with offering 200k starting, which was two years ago. Incyte (big corporate lab in NW) offered me 200k as well. I see people getting offered 300+ now and I’m wondering to myself maybe it’s just my bad luck. Where are these jobs?
No, my name isn’t Thrombus nor is it drifter but I had few job opportunities where I wanted to live. Luckily I got a job. Not a great one but also low pay but then again low volume. No bitching here but I felt the effects of the “oversupply” much talked about here on SDN from starting salaries that were offered to me and employers telling me “they can be picky who they choose.”
I’m happy things have turned around the past few years so that young grads can get paid fairly. Some here have said starting pay is in the 300s now. I hear locums is paying $1500+ a day now. Good for you guys. It wasn’t my experience when I interviewed. Nor was it for my friend who I trained with who told me grads got it much better now then in 2013-15 when he was looking for jobs.
It’s my feeling that there are people who are doing well for themselves, got good salaries and of course do not see those on the other side of the fence who are getting paid low with few job opportunities. I’m looking for job opportunities nearby because I don’t plan on being at my current job forever.
In my opinion, discussing and bringing light to an oversupply of pathologists is fine. I don’t consider it bitching. It explains the low starting salaries, the low locums rates (less than $1000/day), 4-5 years to partnership that many pathologists encountered a few years ago. Like I said, good to see things change. We, as pathologists, have voices and we should make our voices heard (which shouldn’t be confused with bitching).
