paramedic school-should i do it?

[LostLost]

so the last few days i have been seriously thinking about going to paramedic school (the program takes one year) and applying to medical school at the same time in 2008. The reason is that if i don't get into medical school, i can start working as a paramedic, gain some valuable clinical experience, make some money and reapply to medical school again. But the thing is that if i do get into med school, i can't really work as EMT-p in med school except may be 10hr/week. Also how would the adcomm look upon it favorably or unfavorably? What would u do if u were in my shoes... because it seems to me a good back up plan but i feel like i am sidetracking from my goal

Here is my profile: graduated double major from Loyola in three years August 07. science GPA~3.8 non-science GPA ~3.8, MCAT 32 (13p 8v 11b). Have decent research experience, one published philosophy paper, hospital volunteer, soup kitchen, ESL tutor, various jobs in college, becoming EMT, shadowing, applying to UIC state school.... bad stuff are 3Ws (all in non-science), 8 in verbal, thick foreign accent, maybe lower than avg interview skills, not going through the Loyola committee ( I missed the deadline its Dec3 2007 which i think is ridiculously early for 2009).

PS. I know my stats are supposed to be pretty good but i think i am going neurotic and crazy coming to SDN everyday... i would go to bed and wake up thinking OMG! i am not getting into med school.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[146233]

Moving to Pre-Hospital/EMS for some very targeted advice.

 

[paramediclizard]

so the last few days i have been seriously thinking about going to paramedic school (the program takes one year) and applying to medical school at the same time in 2008. The reason is that if i don't get into medical school, i can start working as a paramedic, gain some valuable clinical experience, make some money and reapply to medical school again. But the thing is that if i do get into med school, i can't really work as EMT-p in med school except may be 10hr/week. Also how would the adcomm look upon it favorably or unfavorably? What would u do if u were in my shoes... because it seems to me a good back up plan but i feel like i am sidetracking from my goal

Here is my profile: graduated double major from Loyola in three years August 07. science GPA~3.8 non-science GPA ~3.8, MCAT 32 (13p 8v 11b). Have decent research experience, one published philosophy paper, hospital volunteer, soup kitchen, ESL tutor, various jobs in college, becoming EMT, shadowing, applying to UIC state school.... bad stuff are 3Ws (all in non-science), 8 in verbal, thick foreign accent, maybe lower than avg interview skills, not going through the Loyola committee ( I missed the deadline its Dec3 2007 which i think is ridiculously early for 2009).

PS. I know my stats are supposed to be pretty good but i think i am going neurotic and crazy coming to SDN everyday... i would go to bed and wake up thinking OMG! i am not getting into med school.

Have you submitted your primary application? If so, have you submitted secondaries?
Are you going allo or osteo? How many schools?
It is getting later in the application season, so if are applying this year, get on it. Otherwise, it is best to wait and apply early next season.
You may run into trouble with not using the committee letter from your school. I ran into trouble because I am 9 years out from my undergrad.

 

[howelljolly]

Dont use the medic program as a stepping stone. Do it if you want to be a medic, don't if you don't. You'll be using the medic programs resources for no good.
Med schools won't care that you are in paramedic school, or that you might have 3 months of experience as a medic. If you are applying to med school with years of medic experience, thats a different story. Physicians are aware (at best) that allied health experience is useful when it is in work experience, not school. I quote: "Any idiot can pass nursing school, but actually working as a nurse is a totally different thing"

Your credentials seem good for med school. If thats what you want, go for it.

The most valuable experience you can get from EMS for med school, is how to do a good History and Physical. If you're and EMT-B, you have all you need to be great at that. So, work as an EMT, learn how to do a good H&P, and present the patient to the ER. You can even ask for feedback from the RN or MD you present to.

Going to medic school alone will not help you at all for med school. Med students dont start IVs or intubate. According to NHTSA, etc...besides for Autonomic Nervous system drugs, don't need to know any pharmacology. It's not part of the curriculum. Knowing what 50 drugs go with what diseases won't help you.

So, anyway. If you want to go to med school, then work towards that. Make the most out of your EMT experience. Work experience will help you, not more school.

thats my dos pesos

 

[jbar]

I agree with the above poster, the value of being a medic for medical school is the experience of having worked as one, not having had taken the class. Also I have to say that in med school you have to repeat a lot of what you learn in medic school, but at a higher level. While it might give you a little bit of a leg up for wards in things like knowing how to read an ECG, start a line, etc, the flip side is you'll be spending a lot of time learning things that you will never use as a doctor and only really apply to working on an ambulance. Also, if you're about to spend 4 years in school, does it really make sense adding another year in the classroom for a degree that you won't use? If you want to make good use of the year before med school, take biochem, study some pharmacology and anatomy, and go out and have some fun. Travel, get some life experience.

Your stats sound fine, if you are nervous apply to more schools. Also don't tell med schools you are going to medic school as a backup for med school, it makes it sound like you aren't committed. Good luck

 

[howelljolly]

Also don't tell med schools you are going to medic school as a backup for med school, it makes it sound like you aren't committed. Good luck

That too.

Telling either one that you are doing the other will be bad. Medic schools dont want to train you on their dime, and have you leave the field cause you arent committed. They are in a business of training peope to save lives... not to help you become a doctor.

Med schools dont want to hear that youve used and allied health field as a stepping stone either. It looks like you didnt work hard enough to get into medical school, and then are trying to swindle them into thinking that you are extra special. It also looks to them like you dont have the broad scope of mind to see that you are taxing the public health system for your own
personal gain

Economically, in case you didnt know.... It costs 300K to train a doctor, and where I'm from, 75K to train a medic. Students pay a fraction of that in tuition, the rest is subsidized... think of it from their angle now

 

[LostLost]

thanks for the frank suggestions ....and don't be so pissed off ...just trying to make sure i make the right choice after screwing up too many times.

do other people wanna weigh in?

 

[howelljolly]

thanks for the frank suggestions ....and don't be so pissed off ...just trying to make sure i make the right choice after screwing up too many times.

do other people wanna weigh in?

Im not pissed off... I just screwed up more times than you have. I've done the same thing you are considering, and am just trying to relate some of the specific ideaologies you'll come up against.
A key thing to remember is that while you are putting youre aspirations and ambitions into your decisions, the folks who have the last word, are only just doing their job.
Just trying to be frank, before somoene in a decision-making capacity makes you miserable.

Reach for the top.

 

[viostorm]

thanks for the frank suggestions ....and don't be so pissed off ...just trying to make sure i make the right choice after screwing up too many times.

do other people wanna weigh in?

I'd say go for it if you want to. Medic school is fun and with your stats I don't see it being a problem getting into medical school.

But, to be honest, there are much more fun ways to spend the last year before medical school: sipping Margaritias in Mexico or backpacking in Europe

Medic school isn't that bad, but the clinical hours are a real drag. Basically observing a nurse in your ICU rotations. You get to help a little in the ER, but overall most of the clinical stuff sucks until you get to your ambulance rotations.

As far as working as a paramedic during medical school, I think it is ok. However, I believe my grades suffered for it. I worked 24 hours / week during the first two years. Probably won't be AOA because of it.

The thing I would tell you is that I strongly believe you need to work full time as a paramedic before going part time if you really care about your patients. You just don't see enough as a part timer to master your skills and then you get stuck on something and your patient dies. I see that being a huge problem for you if you don't have 4-6 months to work as a full time paramedic.

I know you are smart, but seriously, I can't even start IV's anymore because my skills have just slipped away let alone intubate. As the paramedic you really need to be able to take care of buisness. Fortunately I'm on a truck with another paramedic who can bail me out.

 

[LostLost]

thank you all. I guess it is best for now that I just focus in applying to medical school. Maybe i will get in and if i don't, then i will consider going to paramedic school.

 

[howelljolly]

thank you all. I guess it is best for now that I just focus in applying to medical school. Maybe i will get in and if i don't, then i will consider going to paramedic school.

Thats a good idea. Also, if you dont get into med school the first time around, I'd seriously consider working in a lab or doing research. That would increase your chances on the second application.

Paramedic will always be an option, aven after you get your MD. Time is a big factor, and as the above poster said, to be a good medic, you need a lot of experience.

 

[ParamedicMan]

So I haven't read all the posts in depth since I am here at work (Cath Lab) but figured I'd add my .02 worth. Regardless of med school, there are things to think about before doing the medic program. I cannot emphasize enough how important good BLS is. I am at a 4-year school helping teach that takes kids from zero to hero without any real experience. IMHO the students are not nearly as good as the community college ones who have a few years of BLS experience. You should wait until you feel comfortable with any type of call as a basic. Being calm and able to think is the most important part of being ALS, and by default, the team leader. I waited ~6 years as a firefighter/EMT before making the jump. I am so glad I did. There are many times that doing good BLS is better than bad ALS. (Don't just do something, stand there (and think)). Having said that, it was medic school that made my head down the med school route. The varied experiences, and the amount of stuff I was allowed to do as a team member was inspiring. I also might have just gotten lucky with a good school, I don't know. I do know that the familiarity I have with medicine will pay great dividends for me during clerkships, internship, etc. I'm done interviewing now and must say that being a **experienced** Paramedic has really helped me stand out from the crowd. I don't know if being a new one/ or being in school, would have the same effect. But with mediocre (3.7 GPA, 30R MCAT) stats due to working 48-72 hour/week shifts, being a Paramedic helped me level the playing field. I don't know if any of that helped, but feel free to PM me with any questions you have. There are a plethora of former EMT and Paramedic physicians out there, and I believe that they are all glad they did prehospital medicine before making the leap. But for all of us, EMS is, or has been, a passion, NOT a stepping stone. Just my humble thoughts,
Josh

 

[yappy]

...wow... this previous poster is the definition of why EMS gets a bad rap for being unprofessional.

 

[Salvorix]

I'd say go for it if you want to. Medic school is fun and with your stats I don't see it being a problem getting into medical school.

But, to be honest, there are much more fun ways to spend the last year before medical school: sipping Margaritias in Mexico or backpacking in Europe

Medic school isn't that bad, but the clinical hours are a real drag. Basically observing a nurse in your ICU rotations. You get to help a little in the ER, but overall most of the clinical stuff sucks until you get to your ambulance rotations.

As far as working as a paramedic during medical school, I think it is ok. However, I believe my grades suffered for it. I worked 24 hours / week during the first two years. Probably won't be AOA because of it.

The thing I would tell you is that I strongly believe you need to work full time as a paramedic before going part time if you really care about your patients. You just don't see enough as a part timer to master your skills and then you get stuck on something and your patient dies. I see that being a huge problem for you if you don't have 4-6 months to work as a full time paramedic.

I know you are smart, but seriously, I can't even start IV's anymore because my skills have just slipped away let alone intubate. As the paramedic you really need to be able to take care of buisness. Fortunately I'm on a truck with another paramedic who can bail me out.

What an old thread!

Sorry for my ignorance, but you say that in medical school you are not trained to start IV's and intubate? I thought that doctors performed both of these tasks? Or do you learn these skills in residency?

 

[howelljolly]

What an old thread!

Sorry for my ignorance, but you say that in medical school you are not trained to start IV's and intubate? I thought that doctors performed both of these tasks? Or do you learn these skills in residency?

Nah, you dont "learn" these things in med school. Many of the skills you pick up in med school are on the fly, or trial by fire.

For example, Endotracheal Intubation. As a med student, if and only if you choose to do an elective in Anesthesiology, will you be taught to intubate. Otherwise, you might pick up the skill in an Emergency Medicine or Critical Care elective, if and only if the patient doesnt need to be intubated ASAP (by an experienced person), and if and only if the resident doesn't feel like they need the experience for themselves, and they reeeeeaaaly like you.... and the patient will survive the teaching session. But the patient comes first, and so will be intubated by somone who knows what they're doing So, for the most part, the only way you will learn to intubate as a med student is if you choose to do an Anesthesiology elective.... if not, you'll graduate without knowing how. Then, in your residency, if and only if intubation is within your skillset (Emergency Med, Anesthesia, ENT...) , you'll learn... either in the OR, on a simulator, or by the seat of your pants. If you go into a field like derm, you might never know how.

Starting IVs... not really something that physicians do. Again you might learn this in an Anesthesiology elective (gas docs place their own). Otherwise, the way you will learn is when you are on call in your third year of med school, and you are admitting a patient. If and only if you manage to cross paths with the nurse who is going to start the IV, you politely ask if she can show you how to do it. Or, if the patient you are following hasnt had their IV changed in 3 days, you can go to the nurse and politely ask if she can show you how to do it.

Same goes for every other skill. Sometimes, you'll be lucky and a resident or attending will take you aside and show you the skill in a controlled setting. Sometimes you'll just be told to do something, and its up to you to figure out how (usually by asking for help from someone other than the resident or attending). Sometimes you'll be handed a task and expected to know how to do it. You'll do it with the doctor watching you, and he or she will suggest minor adjustments and such. If you show incompetence, you'll be screamed at and kicked out of the hospital for the day.

The 3rd time i sutured in med school, a surgeon I never operated with before told the scrub nurse... "I want to get out of here, give a needle and pick-up to the student and lets get this overwith"

First time I interted a Foley Catheter... in the OR, the surgoen just turned to me and said "Put a Foley in the patient".

So, probably the only skill that every physician learns in med school is how to do a H&P.

And as the saying goes, the way we learn procedures is to "See one, do one, teach one"

 

[mlw47]

While my school is probably the exception and not the rule, kids in my school are taught some basic skills. The beginning of third year there's a week long intro to the hospital where you are taught how to draw ABGs, put in foley's, start iv's, as well as how to enter rx's into the computer system, etc. All third years at my school are also taught ACLS, which covers the other fun stuff like intubations, other advanced airways, and the ACLS protocols.

 

[Salvorix]

Nah, you dont "learn" these things in med school. Many of the skills you pick up in med school are on the fly, or trial by fire.

For example, Endotracheal Intubation. As a med student, if and only if you choose to do an elective in Anesthesiology, will you be taught to intubate. Otherwise, you might pick up the skill in an Emergency Medicine or Critical Care elective, if and only if the patient doesnt need to be intubated ASAP (by an experienced person), and if and only if the resident doesn't feel like they need the experience for themselves, and they reeeeeaaaly like you.... and the patient will survive the teaching session. But the patient comes first, and so will be intubated by somone who knows what they're doing So, for the most part, the only way you will learn to intubate as a med student is if you choose to do an Anesthesiology elective.... if not, you'll graduate without knowing how. Then, in your residency, if and only if intubation is within your skillset (Emergency Med, Anesthesia, ENT...) , you'll learn... either in the OR, on a simulator, or by the seat of your pants. If you go into a field like derm, you might never know how.

Starting IVs... not really something that physicians do. Again you might learn this in an Anesthesiology elective (gas docs place their own). Otherwise, the way you will learn is when you are on call in your third year of med school, and you are admitting a patient. If and only if you manage to cross paths with the nurse who is going to start the IV, you politely ask if she can show you how to do it. Or, if the patient you are following hasnt had their IV changed in 3 days, you can go to the nurse and politely ask if she can show you how to do it.

Same goes for every other skill. Sometimes, you'll be lucky and a resident or attending will take you aside and show you the skill in a controlled setting. Sometimes you'll just be told to do something, and its up to you to figure out how (usually by asking for help from someone other than the resident or attending). Sometimes you'll be handed a task and expected to know how to do it. You'll do it with the doctor watching you, and he or she will suggest minor adjustments and such. If you show incompetence, you'll be screamed at and kicked out of the hospital for the day.

The 3rd time i sutured in med school, a surgeon I never operated with before told the scrub nurse... "I want to get out of here, give a needle and pick-up to the student and lets get this overwith"

First time I interted a Foley Catheter... in the OR, the surgoen just turned to me and said "Put a Foley in the patient".

So, probably the only skill that every physician learns in med school is how to do a H&P.

And as the saying goes, the way we learn procedures is to "See one, do one, teach one"

Thank you so much!

Wow it sounds pretty harsh with Docs expecting you to know how to do certain procedures w/o ever having actually done them before...but I guess that's medical school, right?

While my school is probably the exception and not the rule, kids in my school are taught some basic skills. The beginning of third year there's a week long intro to the hospital where you are taught how to draw ABGs, put in foley's, start iv's, as well as how to enter rx's into the computer system, etc. All third years at my school are also taught ACLS, which covers the other fun stuff like intubations, other advanced airways, and the ACLS protocols.

I think I'd like taking that kind of class where you get to learn how to start IV's and advanced airways .

 

[mlw47]

I think I'd like taking that kind of class where you get to learn how to start IV's and advanced airways .

Although, we learn to start IVs on each other. Not intubations, of course.

 

[howelljolly]

Although, we learn to start IVs on each other. Not intubations, of course.

I intubated my cat.

I think most schools train you in ACLS before you start clinicals. So, you'll learn 'how' to intubate, but you wont be any good at it. And you certainly wont get to do it unless you are doing Anesthesia.