PA vs NP

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JourneyAgent said:
Of course you're interested in the perception of the degree, hence the lobbying and the research directed at outcome parity--if I take your implications correctly.

Of course you should be proud of yourself for working really hard and achieving the pinnacle of your profession.

Of course once doc's are established and making money--many of them off of you...for now--they don't see the problem with a Balkanized labor force competing for the same jobs.

Of course anyone interested in these careers should derive their satisfaction internally.

Still...what exists now...will not always. There's not an unlimited amount of resources to go around. Just because the patient demand is there doesn't mean the economics of employment will be.

It's very possible that we could see a time of direct competition for provider roles in the near future. So that those of us laying out the largest bets with worst foreseeable return since the middle of the last century on our investment have every right, every correct impulse, every reason to be concerned.

I'm congratulatory of your efforts and accomplishments but am not buying the sheep's clothing routine. You're starting to believe the internal groupthink of your professional bodies is the real world as you call it. Well...we're all living in very separate, very real worlds. And the style of the NP body politic does not have sole dominion on what constitutes that reality.
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No parity studies, just outcomes. Why would you assume that? It is a performance improvement innovation and patients are better off with the intervention than without it. It is not a ANP specific issue. It is being implement by all kinds of providers regardless of educational background. There has been no comparison of outcomes between providers implementing the innovation. I didn't collect that kind of data and don't have the means to do so. Nor was that the point. The point my DNP investigation is translational research. Putting knowledge into practice. Make it work. It has nothing to do with any so called political agenda, no matter how much you try to twist into something divisive, lol.

My "real world" is the professional one I practice in every day. How could it be any other? Granted, this is the only NP job I have ever had and this is the only community I know in this role. I guess I should definitely stay here if it is really that rare, but for this culture, everything I said is true.

I honestly don't know what you mean by "sheep's clothing routine" at all. I suppose it means that after having been a member of this site for almost 5 years and having never posted anything but helpful advice when I could, as well as down to earth, pragmatic comments on the nature of my profession while consistently avoiding all flame fests, I still can not post a good natured, well meaning comment that puts any positive light on the DNP degree and expect to be taken seriously.

I guess I'll leave you all to your cynicism then. I hope things get better for you all that you enjoy your professional relationships as much as my colleagues and I do. It doesn't have to be the way you describe, I know, because it isn't. Trust me, I'm almost a doctor. ;)

Oh come on. I don't care who you are, that was at least a little funny.

Be well.
 
ChillyRN said:
No parity studies, just outcomes. Why would you assume that? It is a performance improvement innovation and patients are better off with the intervention than without it. It is not a ANP specific issue. It is being implement by all kinds of providers regardless of educational background. There has been no comparison of outcomes between providers implementing the innovation. I didn't collect that kind of data and don't have the means to do so. Nor was that the point. The point my DNP investigation is translational research. Putting knowledge into practice. Make it work. It has nothing to do with any so called political agenda, no matter how much you try to twist into something divisive, lol.

My "real world" is the professional one I practice in every day. How could it be any other? Granted, this is the only NP job I have ever had and this is the only community I know in this role. I guess I should definitely stay here if it is really that rare, but for this culture, everything I said is true.

I honestly don't know what you mean by "sheep's clothing routine" at all. I suppose it means that after having been a member of this site for almost 5 years and having never posted anything but helpful advice when I could, as well as down to earth, pragmatic comments on the nature of my profession while consistently avoiding all flame fests, I still can not post a good natured, well meaning comment that puts any positive light on the DNP degree and expect to be taken seriously.

I guess I'll leave you all to your cynicism then. I hope things get better for you all that you enjoy your professional relationships as much as my colleagues and I do. It doesn't have to be the way you describe, I know, because it isn't. Trust me, I'm almost a doctor. ;)

Oh come on. I don't care who you are, that was at least a little funny.

Be well.
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:laugh:

That was funny. And I appreciate your diplomacy and good naturedness. I can assure you, were we to work together in any professional setting all you would get from me is the positive support of a colleague working for whatever immediate purpose was at hand.

This stuff is policy. And pertains to us the most as new and future grads. And for all those who will come after. The docs with years in and their bills paid don't matter in this discussion. What matters is the deliberate concerted actions of your camp to appear innocuous to our system of training as you erode the barriers of idependent practice like the regularity of waves against a castle of sand.

You artfully dodged the differences in clinical training volume preferring to skirt it with pleasantries about differences and no competitive stances. Nonsense. If you can do the same job with less training than why am I training so hard and so long and for such huge expense.

Notice, I didn't say you weren't adequately trained. You might just very well be perfectly trained for independent practice. This is something we need to determine. And if you guys are right then we're just flat doing it wrong. Big time.

These are huge questions with huge stakes and have absolutely nothing to do with the friendly encounters of the people where you work.
 
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ChillyRN said:
No parity studies, just outcomes. Why would you assume that? It is a performance improvement innovation and patients are better off with the intervention than without it. It is not a ANP specific issue. It is being implement by all kinds of providers regardless of educational background. There has been no comparison of outcomes between providers implementing the innovation. I didn't collect that kind of data and don't have the means to do so. Nor was that the point. The point my DNP investigation is translational research. Putting knowledge into practice. Make it work. It has nothing to do with any so called political agenda, no matter how much you try to twist into something divisive, lol.

My "real world" is the professional one I practice in every day. How could it be any other? Granted, this is the only NP job I have ever had and this is the only community I know in this role. I guess I should definitely stay here if it is really that rare, but for this culture, everything I said is true.

I honestly don't know what you mean by "sheep's clothing routine" at all. I suppose it means that after having been a member of this site for almost 5 years and having never posted anything but helpful advice when I could, as well as down to earth, pragmatic comments on the nature of my profession while consistently avoiding all flame fests, I still can not post a good natured, well meaning comment that puts any positive light on the DNP degree and expect to be taken seriously.

I guess I'll leave you all to your cynicism then. I hope things get better for you all that you enjoy your professional relationships as much as my colleagues and I do. It doesn't have to be the way you describe, I know, because it isn't. Trust me, I'm almost a doctor. ;)

Oh come on. I don't care who you are, that was at least a little funny.

Be well.
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Ability parity is implied at the very least... and honestly much much more than that in the spin-off articles and press releases that result. This is why such research is being used by the lobbies to push for expanded scope and pay.

The problem is that the outcomes don't address the question that was originally asked. They are presented as if they are, but they do not. The gist of every paper ever put out by the AANP is "We are currently not killing people within our current scope to a degree higher than that of physicians within their scope. Therefore we should get expanded scope." In a nutshell, "Our apples are as desirable as their oranges, so we should get to sell bananas" :confused:

It is a study design flaw that really should have been caught if not intentional. And in this case, I use "intentional" to imply "directly misleading" or even "fraudulent". :shrug:
 
ChillyRN said:
It doesn't have to be the way you describe, I know, because it isn't. Trust me, I'm almost a doctor. ;)

Oh come on. I don't care who you are, that was at least a little funny.

Be well.
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Almost Dr. Chilly,
THAT WAS FUNNY.
as a member of the "opposition" as per sdn, I can honestly say I get along fine with the np's I work with and we treat each other with mutual respect.
I have always appreciated your well thought out posts here. best of luck in the future. congrats on the almost completion of your doctorate. I still have about 2 years to go for mine.
Kinda Almost Dr. Emedpa....:)
 
Almost dr. or wannabe dr? :laugh: Just kidding
 
looks like dudes has edited his NP posts, and is now considering optometry...:laugh:

dudestheman90 said:
Hi, I had a question, if you had to choose between DNP (Doctor of Nursing Practice) vs. OD (Doctor of Optometry), which would you pick? and why? I've heard mixed things about the field of optometry. I heard it's really going to be in demand and then I hear it's not, so Idk what to believe. I know the ARNP role is being expanded and there gaining ground in regards to scope of practice and it's a wide open field. Idk too much about optometry, I just hear some good and bad things overall.
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Relax, almost dr. emedpa. lol :laugh: Trust me, I'm a dr. lol:laugh:
 
altap said:
Relax, almost dr. emedpa. lol :laugh: Trust me, I'm a dr. lol:laugh:
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answer the question: have you completed an internship, yes or no.
we all know there are varying qualities of fmg. some are scary and will never practice in the u.s. because they completed a substandard 3 yr program in eastern europe using texbooks from 1970 and some are rock stars from england or australia.
so, which are you?
did you match and are you in a residency? if not, you are an fmg who is a "doctor" by training but not eligible to practice in any state and really have no right to complain about the practice of pa's and np's who have completed their training, passed exams, and do have a license to practice.
 
Me, a rockstar dr? No, just an ordinary dr. lol :laugh:
 
Emedpa, if you want to be called a dr., take up the challenge and go to med school.
 
I notice you did not answer my direct question which is an answer in itself.
I applaud you for completing medical school where ever that was but without the residency you are not employable as a clinician and that will not change, sorry.
with regards to your weak attempt at an insult- I have made it well known here that I will not use the "Dr" title in a clinical setting(unlike some of my np colleagues). I respect the knowledge of a residency trained and board certified physician and would not try to confuse patients by calling myself a clinical doctor when I am not one.
I would recommend you do the same in your job as a nurse. you can tell your friends at the bar that you graduated from med school. some of them may even believe you.
if I write an article or teach a lecture outside of a hospital or clinical setting I may go by Dr. Emedpa, just like anyone else who has completed an academic doctorate.
 
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Why in the world are you going to school to get a doctorate? To learn new things? I don't think so.
Not to disparage you, but you will always be second fiddle to physicians. So quit trying to prove that you are somehow better than them.
 
altap said:
Why in the world are you going to school to get a doctorate? To learn new things? I don't think so.
Not to disparage you, but you will always be second fiddle to physicians. So quit trying to prove that you are somehow better than them.
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um, my doctorate is in global health. I won't be using that info at my regular job, I will be using it to teach global health. totally separate gig. lots of folks in my program aren't even health care providers. we have lots of mph type folks, etc
your ongoing attempts to belittle me do not decrease the fact that you are a nurse posing as a physician here. great, you graduated from some third world medschool. so did a lot of janitors and waiters, congrats. get back to me when you pass the usmle and match. I wish you would as it would make you a happier person and you wouldn't need to hang out here and bash pa's and np's who actually do practice medicine while you are stuck carrying out their orders as a nurse.nursing is a great field. be proud of it. someday you may even become an np. until then,you probably shouldn't comment on stuff above your pay grade.
 
Regarding your question whether I'm a resident or not. Sorry I'm not going to answer (I would like to preserve my anonymity):)
 
altap said:
Regarding your question whether I'm a resident or not. Sorry I'm not going to answer (I would like to preserve my anonymity):)
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yeah, because if you said " yes, I passed the usmle and matched" it would give your identity away immediately.
hakkeem riviera? is that you? I knew it!
 
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Why do all of these threads have to melt down into ridiculous drama? Why are people who dislike NPs or PAs even reading them in the first place? Don't med students have some extremely important studying to do?
 
Control4Smilers said:
Why do all of these threads have to melt down into ridiculous drama? Why are people who dislike NPs or PAs even reading them in the first place? Don't med students have some extremely important studying to do?
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Get in to med school. Pay your dues. And you will know. If not. Can't explain it. In the same way I can't explain what a Dirty Sanchez is to my 4 year old niece.

The drama or liking or not liking idea come from y'all in this thread. Considering the medical doctors work way harder than the other doctors and prescribers for increasingly equalizing portions of the reward, the fact that we are cordial at all is impressive to me.

My mother's an NP. She raised me from the sweat of her nursing brow. And we tend to agree on these issues. Of course, she came up when NP's were NP's, with long years in nursing. And not the back door to medicine for the young and talented and sacrafice averse.

I'm for equal work for equal reward. And equal responsibility for equal training.

Many paths could converge.

But right now we got some slack @ss back door scalping going on, and The House of God is not in order.
 
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