Organic chemistry is:

[Ernham]

Don't answer(obviously) if you haven't had any of it yet.

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[Integra96]

I think people will answer based on how he or she learns. I'm sure we all know people who memorize every little detail of some subject without getting a grasp on the meaning or conceptual nature of it, yet still do well in the course without really knowing what the hell just happened. On the other hand, learning the important principles of a subject without memorizing trivial details will also lead to a good grade in the course.

 

[ixitixl]

I think it depends highly on how the professor teaches it and what they expect you to know on the exams. I heard that it is nearly impossible to pass Princeton and Harvard's organic chem if you try to memorize more than the few counterintuititve synthetic pathways. However, they are very manageable if you put in the time to understand what's going on.

 

[ForensicPath]

I think it is pretty conceptual, especially when you do long synthesis reactions. I found that I had to memorize specific reactions like the grignard (sp?) and diels-alder, in case there was a test question like: What is a diels-alder reaction?

 

[Gleevec]

If you're good at organic chem, you'll see the patterns and concepts and just memorize the names and few details. If not, you're forced to memorize it all.

 

[omar06]

....the biggest pain in the ass. Thats what organic chemistry is. And if you disagree with me, you've got problems.

 

[exmike]

its BOTH, and it also sucks a fat one.

 

[Ernham]

As soon as you start thinking through novel situations via your own intuition, armed with your organic knowledge, you suddenly realize that ochem is the biggest freaking joke. The textbook is a cookbook, not a learning device. They make up half the chit as they go.

 

[idq1i]

Is this the right thread to mention that I had a 97% average in Orgo 1, 2, and lab

Come on, people. Stop trying to memorize the damn book. Start thinking the reactions through. It will make your lives much simpler.

 

[Cerberus]

Originally posted by Ernham
As soon as you start thinking through novel situations via your own intuition, armed with your organic knowledge, you suddenly realize that ochem is the biggest freaking joke. The textbook is a cookbook, not a learning device. They make up half the chit as they go.

I thought it was a pretty logical and straightforward class.

 

[NotShorty]

The one thing they don't tell you is that taking Organic Chemistry is like learning a new language. It is like a very complex Lego kit for adults (or nerds ) that never ceases to amaze me.

Ohio State
251: A
252: A
253: A
254: B (Professor Frankel can suck a fat one)
255: A

I had lots of fun in Orgo, but it feels nice to move on to BioChem.

 

[Sweet Tea]

I loved biochem the second time (heh) when I actually tried to memorize concepts and patterns instead of memorizing every single reaction. Made my life much simpler. However, my med school biochem class was all about memorizing as many random details as you possibly could without much actual thought involved, and I hated it. Orgo good, biochem (at least at my school) bad. Biochem was okay in undergrad, though, when we were going more for concepts than memorization.

 

[subtle1epiphany]

Originally posted by idq1i
Come on, people. Stop trying to memorize the damn book. Start thinking the reactions through. It will make your lives much simpler.

amen man!!!
learning the concepts and applying logic is not only the easy way to do it...but it's good practice.

 

[tygrwds]

For me, O-Chem was mostly conceptual. There was no way I could've passed the tests by memorizing most of the reactions - there had to be a sort of rhyme and reason to the mechanisms, formulas, and proper reagents.

 

[Ernham]

I've got a feeling that those that think it is conceptual actually got a mickey mouse professor that gives short ass exams. Must have been nice.

 

[twinklz]

I felt like Organic I was mostly conceptual when you were learning the basics of how the reactions work. But Organic II felt like they were just trying to cram as many different reactions as they could into a single class. Of course, this may be due to the vastly different teaching methods of the 2 professors.

 

[Sweet Tea]

Originally posted by Ernham
I've got a feeling that those that think it is conceptual actually got a mickey mouse professor that gives short ass exams. Must have been nice.

uh, not so much, or else there would have been more than 5 As in a 200+ person class.

 

[vegangirl]

I was wondering what all the ambidexterous and left handed people think of orgo??? I am ambi, and personally I think it helps me with concepts such as sterochem and working backwords in synthesis problems, cuz your used to doing things differently than right handers. any thougths???

 

[Direct Laryngoscopy]

I'm sorta pseudoambidextrous in that I do everythiing with my left hand (except write). But I personally liked Orgo. It made me think 3 demensionally. Orgo 2 is easier than 1 if you got the basics of one down pat.

 

[bella_dottoressa]

My vote definately goes for conceptual. I didn't start understanding how things worked in ochem I until the night before the final....then everything clicked and it's been so much easier ever since.

Notshorty...nice organic performance!! I had Fraenkel last quarter...I would rip the guy apart, but after he curved my 251 class to all hell I can't say a bad thing about the man. I have Dr. Swenton for 252 and he seems tons better.

 

[musiclink213]

everyone is saying how organic is conceptual, but what i want to know, is what concepts are you supposed to understand??? maybe my professors just don't know how to teach, but they just tell us, these are the reactions, you don't need to know the mechanism, just know this is the reaction. i guess not everyone is like this, but i'm confused what the concepts are!! is that understanding the mechanisms by which they work and the whole thing with the cation and stuff like that?

 

[idq1i]

Originally posted by musiclink213
everyone is saying how organic is conceptual, but what i want to know, is what concepts are you supposed to understand??? maybe my professors just don't know how to teach, but they just tell us, these are the reactions, you don't need to know the mechanism, just know this is the reaction. i guess not everyone is like this, but i'm confused what the concepts are!! is that understanding the mechanisms by which they work and the whole thing with the cation and stuff like that?

Steric hindrance, electronegativity, electron delocalization, acid-base reactions, ionic interactions.......etc

 

[Cerberus]

Originally posted by musiclink213
everyone is saying how organic is conceptual, but what i want to know, is what concepts are you supposed to understand??? maybe my professors just don't know how to teach, but they just tell us, these are the reactions, you don't need to know the mechanism, just know this is the reaction. i guess not everyone is like this, but i'm confused what the concepts are!! is that understanding the mechanisms by which they work and the whole thing with the cation and stuff like that?

I learned all the mechanisms, when i realized how the mechanisms worked I could relate them to future reactions. It is quite hard to guess many products without knowing the mechanism IMHO.

 

[bella_dottoressa]

I learned all the mechanisms, when i realized how the mechanisms worked I could relate them to future reactions. It is quite hard to guess many products without knowing the mechanism IMHO.

Agreed!!!

 

[Ernham]

The "concepts" often conflict with each other, leaving you arbitrarily guessing which one to go with. The concept method doesn't really work well unless your prof "teaches to the test." Here's an example of a question I got wrong on the first exam in ochem I. This was suppose to be a free (2-3) points question, too:

Rank the following molecules in order of heat of hydrogenation: 1-butene, cis-2-butene, trans-2-butene.

Two "concepts" we learned prior to this:

Cis groups on such a molecule would put it at a higher energy state. Sterics.

Primary alkenes have greater energy(more unstable) than secondary, tertiary, etc.

In this question, both are present. One must be superior, but you are left guessing which, unless you memorized the tables prior and knew one trumps the other.

This happened all the time in Ochem it seemed, where two concepts conflict and guessing was all you could do. This is probably why people often suggest "doing as many problems as possible, " so much of it is conflicting bullchit. Mmeorize that crap, baby!

 

[liverotcod]

Originally posted by Ernham
Two "concepts" we learned prior to this:

Cis groups on such a molecule would put it at a higher energy state. Sterics.

Primary alkenes have greater energy(more unstable) than secondary, tertiary, etc.

In this question, both are present. One must be superior, but you are left guessing which, unless you memorized the tables prior and knew one trumps the other.

I agree that rankings sometimes need to be pretty much memorized, as do some esoteric reagents. Certainly having a bunch of memorized reactions in your head can increase your understanding of the concepts, and vice versa. My instructor used little <> symbols, like this, except in this case using line-angle drawings of the appropriate molecules:

Stability of alkenes:
unsubstituted < monosubstituted < geminal disubstituted < cis disubstituted < trans disubstituted < trisubstituted < tetrasubstituted.

But the concept is the spreading of the electrons, which causes this listing to make sense.

 

[Noeljan]

Dont think to far into the question. The more alkyl groups(more highly substitued alkene) the more stable, also trans more stable than cis(unless in ring structures under 8 carbons which would place a tremendous amount of strain making it very unstable and highly unlikely)
Anyways, Organic is both. Memorization as well as concepts.

 

[hale-bopp]

Originally posted by dpoke1
I'm sorta pseudoambidextrous in that I do everythiing with my left hand (except write). But I personally liked Orgo. It made me think 3 demensionally. Orgo 2 is easier than 1 if you got the basics of one down pat.

I had to take second semester orgo left-handed, and it was a nightmare for me (I'm a rightie), because I never got fast enough to take notes in class, but my professor had had to do the same thing when he took O-chem for the first time, and he believes that writing left handed changed the way his brain worked and made him a Chemist...