OMFS salary disparities

[Bereno]

What implant system are you using?

Straumann for single implants and Neodent for full arches

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[702]

Straumann for single implants and Neodent for full arches

I’m glad you’re being better compensated now! What a difference the practice makes.

What investments are you thinking of?

 

[Bereno]

I’m glad you’re being better compensated now! What a difference the practice makes.

What investments are you thinking of?

Thank you! I am a big fan of real estate.

1) It allows can either be more active or more passive depending on someone's preferences, so it can suit just about everyone
2) The potential tax incentives are very impressive and potentially even better than the gross cash-on-cash returns
3) The ability to tie it into business ventures is very appealing
4) Unlike stocks, bonds, or crypto, you can force earnings (I am speaking in general, I know there are exceptions to this)

That said, I do own stocks and crypto as well just to be more diversified

 

[New_Vegas]

That said, I do own stocks and crypto as well just to be more diversified

Lol, come on man- you should know better than to buy crypto.

 

[Bereno]

Lol, come on man- you should know better than to buy crypto.

Is there something I should know?

 

[bergus95]

For what its worth, I am that one dude in Seattle that was getting criminally ****ed as noted by the previous post. As an update, I ended up quitting that job back in August of 2022 and am now working for ClearChoice. Go Figure. I am making around 60K a month on about 3.5 days a week. I am not all that fast, but the more of these I do, the more efficient and proficient I become. I usually do about two arches a day, but it looks as though I will be doing 3 arches a day more frequently now. Just last week I did 4 arches in a day. All said and done, I should be looking at over $700k this year considering that I made $247k in the first four months already and still have a lot of room to improve.

I still plan on investing heavily and using this income stream to generate future wealth. That said, it is hard not to fall into lifestyle creep haha. That's a topic for another day though.

What does a typical day look like working for Clearchoice?

 

[Thehighwind87]

Lol, come on man- you should know better than to buy crypto.

Not saying crypto is good or bad- but the returns on BTC is way better then you think:

Bitcoin vs. Traditional Assets

Does Bitcoin provide a better financial return or are traditional assets superior? Read this guide to Bitcoin vs traditional assets by SMART VALOR to find out!

smartvalor.com

I personally don't hold crypto- I go with individual stocks (FAANG + Tesla) and etfs, but saying bitcoin is silly etc- is just dumb. It has outperformed every asset class for the past decade.

The bottom line is: there will always be room for cryptocurrencies as long as federal reserve keeps printing money.

 

[1username2]

Since dental school, I've occasionally surfed these forums for info/entertainment. I always enjoy the salary/income threads like this one. After following this particular thread I felt compelled to finally register and participate. I hope this provides some answers/clarity for some.

I am a private practice OMS in SoCal. I am 50% owner with my partner. We are on staff at two hospitals where we take call(occasionally) and perform our more complex/invasive surgeries. We each work a 4-day work week. We are in network with a few of the bigger ppo's like delta. We have one associate that works for us 2-days a week. We have only one location.

We each bring home $2 million a year. The associate takes 40% of what they produce- which has been around $1million lately. And that's only working 2-days a week- more like 1.5 a week with how much time they take off but I digress.

As far as owner OMS's go, we are pretty average down here. Maybe slightly above. I know and speak to a lot of other surgeons in my situation and they are pulling similar numbers.

What I know of itinerant OMS(in socal) who go from office to office(corp or private) is that they make around $1 million a year, easily. They are not working that hard, I can assure you.

The average first year associate contract for someone just out of residency is $300-350k base plus some kind of bonus/production incentive.

The salaries of OMS posted on Forbes and other sites is usually pulled form public record databases- public hospitals where you can see what the attending OMS surgeons are being paid. And it's a tiny fraction of private guys bring home. But God bless them.

I really had no clue how much money I would be making doing this job bc I was looking at the same resources as you people. I feel like I'm revealing a big secret or something. If I'm found dead in the coming weeks suspect foul play.

Hope this helps.

 

[D1Bound]

Since dental school, I've occasionally surfed these forums for info/entertainment. I always enjoy the salary/income threads like this one. After following this particular thread I felt compelled to finally register and participate. I hope this provides some answers/clarity for some.

I am a private practice OMS in SoCal. I am 50% owner with my partner. We are on staff at two hospitals where we take call(occasionally) and perform our more complex/invasive surgeries. We each work a 4-day work week. We are in network with a few of the bigger ppo's like delta. We have one associate that works for us 2-days a week. We have only one location.

We each bring home $2 million a year. The associate takes 40% of what they produce- which has been around $1million lately. And that's only working 2-days a week- more like 1.5 a week with how much time they take off but I digress.

As far as owner OMS's go, we are pretty average down here. Maybe slightly above. I know and speak to a lot of other surgeons in my situation and they are pulling similar numbers.

What I know of itinerant OMS(in socal) who go from office to office(corp or private) is that they make around $1 million a year, easily. They are not working that hard, I can assure you.

The average first year associate contract for someone just out of residency is $300-350k base plus some kind of bonus/production incentive.

The salaries of OMS posted on Forbes and other sites is usually pulled form public record databases- public hospitals where you can see what the attending OMS surgeons are being paid. And it's a tiny fraction of private guys bring home. But God bless them.

I really had no clue how much money I would be making doing this job bc I was looking at the same resources as you people. I feel like I'm revealing a big secret or something. If I'm found dead in the coming weeks suspect foul play.

Hope this helps.

Could you talk about Itinerant work? The AAOMS has a statement that says they are against this practice, but then proceed to say if someone chooses to do it then they must follow xyz. Is it an ethical thing to do?

 

[1username2]

Itinerant OMS are very common and more so every year because it is so lucrative and you don't have the headache of running a business and sucking up to referrals every second of every day. We private owner types love to talk **** about them and say they have sold their soul, but I can't blame anyone for choosing that route honestly. It gets sticky when these guys are administering general anesthetics/IV sedations at these offices. I would say most carry these anesthetic medications with them from office to office(black bagging) which is technically illegal but very common practice. That being said, a lot of itinerants only use local/nitrous and shuck 3rds and place implants at these offices and make a killing. The other problem is management of complications. Most of these OMS are at these offices maybe once a month and the generalist or whomever is left to manage a problem they are not qualified to manage.

 

[Ivy.ch]

The average first year associate contract for someone just out of residency is $300-350k base plus some kind of bonus/production incentive.

More or less what I’ve heard? But then where do the increases later in your career come from? More efficiency?

 

[1username2]

More or less what I’ve heard? But then where do the increases later in your career come from? More efficiency?

As an associate? Increases will come with increases in production(if you have negotiated a percent of production into your contract-which you definitely should). Increases in production will come from improvements in efficiency, treatment planning, and marketing/expanding the practice so you get more patients coming your way.

There is no substitute for ownership when it comes to income. Ownership is the surest way to make 7-figures a year. That being said, opportunities to buy or partner with a good practice are rapidly diminishing with these DSO's buying everything up. They are aggressively buying OMS practices out here, paying 7-10x EBITDA, hard to say no.

You can always start your own from the ground up if you hate yourself.

Itinerant/corp work would be next if you can Frankenstein a full week schedule together with different offices.

 

[D1Bound]

Itinerant OMS are very common and more so every year because it is so lucrative and you don't have the headache of running a business and sucking up to referrals every second of every day. We private owner types love to talk **** about them and say they have sold their soul, but I can't blame anyone for choosing that route honestly. It gets sticky when these guys are administering general anesthetics/IV sedations at these offices. I would say most carry these anesthetic medications with them from office to office(black bagging) which is technically illegal but very common practice. That being said, a lot of itinerants only use local/nitrous and shuck 3rds and place implants at these offices and make a killing. The other problem is management of complications. Most of these OMS are at these offices maybe once a month and the generalist or whomever is left to manage a problem they are not qualified to manage.

1. Wouldn't someone be opening themself up to lawsuits by not abiding by the AAOMS code of ethics?

2. If a surgeon is within let's say 50 miles, aren't they at least available enough to tend to a serious complication?

 

[Bereno]

What does a typical day look like working for Clearchoice?

Most days are a double arch in the morning, with maybe a single arch in the midafternoon or even a single implant after that. Depends on the day. Go through emails, clear a bunch of patient health histories, plan a handful of cases on the CBCT, check in on your patients to make sure they are good, then head home. Pretty easy to hit $750K without having to deal with the headache of managing your own business.

Speaking of headaches for private practice OMS, I am currently temp covering for a local surgeon on Fridays for next few months and it's already making me second guess my plans of private practice someday... there are a lot of crazy dentists out there who think OMS are just there to pull teeth for them and cleanup their messes. I am not very good at buttering up people, let alone when they act like I am just there to serve them, so maybe ClearChoice will be my jam for a while. Who knows.

 

[D1Bound]

Most days are a double arch in the morning, with maybe a single arch in the midafternoon or even a single implant after that. Depends on the day. Go through emails, clear a bunch of patient health histories, plan a handful of cases on the CBCT, check in on your patients to make sure they are good, then head home. Pretty easy to hit $750K without having to deal with the headache of managing your own business.

Speaking of headaches for private practice OMS, I am currently temp covering for a local surgeon on Fridays for next few months and it's already making me second guess my plans of private practice someday... there are a lot of crazy dentists out there who think OMS are just there to pull teeth for them and cleanup their messes. I am not very good at buttering up people, let alone when they act like I am just there to serve them, so maybe ClearChoice will be my jam for a while. Who knows.

I thought it was a you scratch my back I'll scratch yours dynamic with specialists/GPs. That doesn't sound like a fun working relationship you described

 

[Bereno]

I thought it was a you scratch my back I'll scratch yours dynamic with specialists/GPs. That doesn't sound like a fun working relationship you described

For the majority of referring dentists, you are spot on. Most dentists who I have worked with in the past have been great people. Its just that every now and then you get a crazy one who can make things difficult. This is not isolated to dentistry, it is common in many aspects of life.

 

[dratc]

Since dental school, I've occasionally surfed these forums for info/entertainment. I always enjoy the salary/income threads like this one. After following this particular thread I felt compelled to finally register and participate. I hope this provides some answers/clarity for some.

I am a private practice OMS in SoCal. I am 50% owner with my partner. We are on staff at two hospitals where we take call(occasionally) and perform our more complex/invasive surgeries. We each work a 4-day work week. We are in network with a few of the bigger ppo's like delta. We have one associate that works for us 2-days a week. We have only one location.

We each bring home $2 million a year. The associate takes 40% of what they produce- which has been around $1million lately. And that's only working 2-days a week- more like 1.5 a week with how much time they take off but I digress.

As far as owner OMS's go, we are pretty average down here. Maybe slightly above. I know and speak to a lot of other surgeons in my situation and they are pulling similar numbers.

What I know of itinerant OMS(in socal) who go from office to office(corp or private) is that they make around $1 million a year, easily. They are not working that hard, I can assure you.

The average first year associate contract for someone just out of residency is $300-350k base plus some kind of bonus/production incentive.

The salaries of OMS posted on Forbes and other sites is usually pulled form public record databases- public hospitals where you can see what the attending OMS surgeons are being paid. And it's a tiny fraction of private guys bring home. But God bless them.

I really had no clue how much money I would be making doing this job bc I was looking at the same resources as you people. I feel like I'm revealing a big secret or something. If I'm found dead in the coming weeks suspect foul play.

Hope this helps.

How is the associate producing so much per day? Not questioning your statement at all, just genuinely curious. For 2 days a week and 40% production making around a million means a very high production per day. Are fees significantly higher in California than other places in the country? Is he doing some full arch stuff? Super efficient?

As I’ve looked into more jobs I’ve definitely seen 7 figure potential but it’s usually associated with 4-5 days a week.

I’ve sort of been thinking I’ll have to decide between hitting a million a year at 5 days a week or taking a significant pay cut to get down to 3-4 days a week.

 

[ToothJockey]

How is the associate producing so much per day? Not questioning your statement at all, just genuinely curious. For 2 days a week and 40% production making around a million means a very high production per day. Are fees significantly higher in California than other places in the country? Is he doing some full arch stuff? Super efficient?

As I’ve looked into more jobs I’ve definitely seen 7 figure potential but it’s usually associated with 4-5 days a week.

I’ve sort of been thinking I’ll have to decide between hitting a million a year at 5 days a week or taking a significant pay cut to get down to 3-4 days a week.

I may be wrong but I think he means the associate is producing $1 mil and taking home 40% or 400k. And each owner is producing $2m (I’m guessing take home is 1m+ each assuming overhead <50%)

 

[1username2]

I may be wrong but I think he means the associate is producing $1 mil and taking home 40% or 400k. And each owner is producing $2m (I’m guessing take home is 1m+ each assuming overhead <50%)

Our associate is producing close to $1 million a year and taking 40% which is $400k a year. And that is 2-days a week(more like 1.5 a week). My partner and I each produce close to $3million each a year and take home $2million each per year. We each work 4-days a week. Hope this clarifies.

 

[dratc]

Our associate is producing close to $1 million a year and taking 40% which is $400k a year. And that is 2-days a week(more like 1.5 a week). My partner and I each produce close to $3million each a year and take home $2million each per year. We each work 4-days a week. Hope this clarifies.

This is incredible. Congrats to your success!

 

[bergus95]

Our associate is producing close to $1 million a year and taking 40% which is $400k a year. And that is 2-days a week(more like 1.5 a week). My partner and I each produce close to $3million each a year and take home $2million each per year. We each work 4-days a week. Hope this clarifies.

What is your procedure schedule like? Those are some pretty big numbers

 

[1username2]

What is your procedure schedule like? Those are some pretty big numbers

Nothing exotic. A lot of 3rd molars/implants outpatient. Maybe an orthognathic every other month.
This is coming across as very braggy which is not my intention.
The reason I am sharing is bc these forums rarely report accurate OMS incomes. My situation is not that unique.

 

[Cold Front]

Nothing exotic. A lot of 3rd molars/implants outpatient. Maybe an orthognathic every other month.
This is coming across as very braggy which is not my intention.
The reason I am sharing is bc these forums rarely report accurate OMS incomes. My situation is not that unique.

Not braggy at all. Congrats! The highest earner OS guy I came across worked for Aspen Dental in my state. He took him about 4-5M/yr.

He would wake up 3am in the morning and commute to his first Aspen office with his team. He would do 3 offices a day and collect $30-40k a day, IIRC. He was also a faculty at Cleveland clinic on top of that. I could never do that.

I work 3 days a week as a general dentist and have a few side businesses that make more money than my dentistry income. Life is very chill, but I salute the OS guys for hustling very hard and doing big complex cases.

That’s what makes dentistry interesting… you can play your cards in different ways and can make a lot of money. The opportunity is there, but nothing happens by default.

 

[Undecided__]

I shadowed an OS yesterday, and he said he makes 2 million a year. He has his own practice, and it's only him.

 

[Cold Front]

I shadowed an OS yesterday, and he said he makes 2 million a year. He has his own practice, and it's only him.

Small detail about making about making big numbers. Usually those are the peak years of the career. Not the first few years out of school or residency, and definitely not the years close to retirement.

Also, inflation is almost always ignored. 2M income this year will have less purchase power than 2M last year. If inflation (let’s say) is near 10% year over year, that 2M income today will feel like 1.8M. The cost of inflation in that example is close to 200k. Anyone shadowing OS guy making 2M a year (or any number) today should consider inflation could be 40-50% over the next 8-10 years if they choose OS as a career.

 

[Ivy.ch]

I don’t mean to brag, but the hospital is paying me a resident salary of 58k. Plus $400 to use at the cafeteria, and free coffee in the call room. And I even got free parking at the lot 10 minutes away from the hospital. I’m kinda a big deal.

 

[Silver_arrow]

I don’t mean to brag, but the hospital is paying me a resident salary of 58k. Plus $400 to use at the cafeteria. And I even got free parking at the lot 10 minutes away from the hospital. I’m kinda a big deal.

I know this was meant to be a joke in the context of this thread.
But it’s really not a joke. It can cost up to 400 k to be a perio or orthodontist. They get no food money. They also pay for parking.

 

[Cold Front]

I know this was meant to be a joke in the context of this thread.
But it’s really not a joke. It can cost up to 400 k to be a perio or orthodontist. They get no food money. They also pay for parking.

And that 400k just today’s cost.

Hospitals should pay more… at least provide free parking and meals. Food and commuting to work cost are also going up.

 

[Silver_arrow]

Anyone reading this thread has got to realize that yes oral surgeons get paid a lot.
But we take on a high level of risk and liability.
Our compensation is justified.

 

[Silver_arrow]

Not braggy at all. Congrats! The highest earner OS guy I came across worked for Aspen Dental in my state. He took him about 4-5M/yr.

He would wake up 3am in the morning and commute to his first Aspen office with his team. He would do 3 offices a day and collect $30-40k a day, IIRC. He was also a faculty at Cleveland clinic on top of that. I could never do that.

I work 3 days a week as a general dentist and have a few side businesses that make more money than my dentistry income. Life is very chill, but I salute the OS guys for hustling very hard and doing big complex cases.

That’s what makes dentistry interesting… you can play your cards in different ways and can make a lot of money. The opportunity is there, but nothing happens by default.

I’ve had 4 colleagues that previously worked for aspen.
They all got what they wanted out of it. One of them was also a part time attending at a local residency program as he also did aspen part time.

 

[PhansterZ]

I don’t mean to brag, but the hospital is paying me a resident salary of 58k. Plus $400 to use at the cafeteria, and free coffee in the call room. And I even got free parking at the lot 10 minutes away from the hospital. I’m kinda a big deal.

Wait til you're a chief, that's when the money starts flowing water.

 

[Ivy.ch]

Anyone reading this thread has got to realize that yes oral surgeons get paid a lot.
But we take on a high level of risk and liability.
Our compensation is justified.

That was part of the reason for my sarcasm. People have to realize you’ll be 34 by the time you make a real salary. People start getting cancer in their 40s. People develop chronic back pain on their 40s. People die of heart attacks in their 50s. Not to mention lawsuits and liability are always a threat. I also forgot to mention paying for Dental AND Medical school along the way.

The numbers during peak career look great, but they can’t be taken out of context of a very long and poorly paid path.

 

[D1Bound]

That was part of the reason for my sarcasm. People have to realize you’ll be 34 by the time you make a real salary. People start getting cancer in their 40s. People develop chronic back pain on their 40s. People die of heart attacks in their 50s. Not to mention lawsuits and liability are always a threat. I also forgot to mention paying for Dental AND Medical school along the way.

The numbers during peak career look great, but they can’t be taken out of context of a very long and poorly paid path.

I don’t care what sad stories or set backs dentistry may have. If you can shuck wizzies and make 1 million+ a year starting at age 33-34 you’re doing exceptional. It’s hell to get there, but I’ve seen what normal people struggle with, and an oral surgeon doesn’t have that struggle once they’re licensed. And why should they? They earned their lifestyle.

 

[ToothJockey]

He took him about 4-5M/yr.

What percent production/adjusted production does Aspen pay for OS? I'm guessing he's producing around 10M which is over 40k/day. That's pretty unrealistic isn't it? And even if it were possible, where does Aspen even get the patient volume for a surgeon to produce that much?

 

[Cold Front]

What percent production/adjusted production does Aspen pay for OS? I'm guessing he's producing around 10M which is over 40k/day. That's pretty unrealistic isn't it? And even if it were possible, where does Aspen even get the patient volume for a surgeon to produce that much?

So Aspen dental has over 30 offices in my state. Each office would schedule 2 days of OS cases every month for him. He produced 20k at the office I worked at Aspen from 5a-8a, then would the. go to the next Aspen office about an hour away and do the same numbers all over again from 9a-12p. Then he would do one final stop at another Aspen office (also an hour or so away), etc. I saw him do at least 20k in just 3 hours at my office, so I’m sure he was doing more or less the same at each practice. So maybe 60k/day give or take between 3 offices in 1 day. Aspen would take 50%, and he would pay his supplies and assistants from his 50%. His cut after everything was at least 20k/day… meaning he took home 100k a week, or 400k a month = 4-5M/yr. He was a W2, so Aspen was withholding taxes from his paystub. Not sure if that’s what he requested or there was no 1099 option.

These offices were in very small and medium sized towns and it involved a lot of driving in between. Aspen kept him very very busy. I believe it wasn’t hard for general dentist at each office to add $1k production each day to his 1-2 days a month schedule. Most cases were IV sedation, some involved platelets, etc. The production numbers added up pretty fast. He graduated from Tufts, his work life balance probably sucked, and he went through a big divorce eventually. The staff at the Aspen office I worked at always wondered how long he could go on for doing that intense schedule. He probably loved doing OS, the money was just a bonus. He also did Mexico, Guatemala, etc missions and worked on people over there for free.

 

[ToothJockey]

So Aspen dental has over 30 offices in my state. Each office would schedule 2 days of OS cases every month for him. He produced 20k at the office I worked at Aspen from 5a-8a, then would the. go to the next Aspen office about an hour away and do the same numbers all over again from 9a-12p. Then he would do one final stop at another Aspen office (also an hour or so away), etc. I saw him do at least 20k in just 3 hours at my office, so I’m sure he was doing more or less the same at each practice. So maybe 60k/day give or take between 3 offices in 1 day. Aspen would take 50%, and he would pay his supplies and assistants from his 50%. His cut after everything was at least 20k/day… meaning he took home 100k a week, or 400k a month = 4-5M/yr. He was a W2, so Aspen was withholding taxes from his paystub. Not sure if that’s what he requested or there was no 1099 option.

These offices were in very small and medium sized towns and it involved a lot of driving in between. Aspen kept him very very busy. I believe it wasn’t hard for general dentist at each office to add $1k production each day to his 1-2 days a month schedule. Most cases were IV sedation, some involved platelets, etc. The production numbers added up pretty fast. He graduated from Tufts, his work life balance probably sucked, and I think he went through a big divorce eventually. The staff at the Aspen office I worked at always wondered how long he could go on for doing that intense schedule. He probably loved doing OS, the money was just a bonus. He also did Mexico, Guatemala, etc missions and worked on people over there for free.

20k production in 3 hours is insane. I believe you, but damn.

On a side note, feel bad for the assistants who had to put up with his schedule for 1% of the pay lol

 

[Cold Front]

20k production in 3 hours is insane. I believe you, but damn.

On a side note, feel bad for the assistants who had to put up with his schedule for 1% of the pay lol

Yes. This was 13 yrs ago, not sure what’s feasible today at Aspen… but they had a system down to the T for the OS guys. He had about 6 cases at each office a day, and they were averaging about 3k per patient. I don’t recall the fees, but 4 full impacted wisdom teeth + IV + platelets, etc = can easily be 3k. If you look at plastic surgeons, let’s say Rhinoplasty… it can cost 2k for anesthesia + 12k for 2 hours in the OR with the plastic surgeon + 2k using the hospital beds and nurses for pre-op and recovery. Not as many cases in plastic surgery as in OS, but if you have general dentists keep diagnosing OS cases for you every day and adding 3k to the schedule every few days, you can get to 20k/day easily for the OS guy/girl that comes 1-2 days a month.

His assistants were probably making way more than the average DA to put up with all that insane schedule. I would pay them $100/hr - and I’m sure they would not hesitate to follow me around every corner of the state.

 

[ToothJockey]

Yes. This was 13 yrs ago, not sure what’s feasible today at Aspen… but they had a system down to the T for the OS guys. He had about 6 cases at each office a day, and they were averaging about 3k per patient. I don’t recall the fees, but 4 full impacted wisdom teeth + IV + platelets, etc = can easily be 3k. If you look at plastic surgeons, let’s say Rhinoplasty… it can cost 2k for anesthesia + 12k for 2 hours in the OR with the plastic surgeon + 2k using the hospital beds and nurses for pre-op and recovery. Not as many cases in plastic surgery as in OS, but if you have general dentists keep diagnosing OS cases for you every day and adding 3k to the schedule every few days, you can get to 20k/day easily for the OS guy/girl that comes 1-2 days a month.

His assistants were probably making way more than the average DA to put up with all that insane schedule. I would pay them $100/hr - and I’m sure they would not hesitate to follow me around every corner of the state.

I'm genuinely surprised the fees were that high 13 years ago, especially for Aspen. It seems fees haven't really gone up in over a decade huh

 

[Cold Front]

I'm genuinely surprised the fees were that high 13 years ago, especially for Aspen. It seems fees haven't really gone up in over a decade huh

Yes. That’s across the board for all levels of dentistry. Everything else went up; payroll, rent, supplies, cost of living, etc. Dental service fees have been lagging for decades now.

I would say the cost of dental school and specializing went up the most, and now the interest rates on student loans have just gone up this year to the highest level since I graduated in 2010.

That’s why every number that’s discussed on the dental threads should be taken with a grain of salt. It’s all relative to the cost of everything else, and I don’t see that trend reversing anytime soon.

Future dentists will have less purchase power.

 

[Silver_arrow]

If you look at plastic surgeons, let’s say Rhinoplasty… it can cost 2k for anesthesia + 12k for 2 hours in the OR with the plastic surgeon + 2k using the hospital beds and nurses for pre-op and recovery. Not as many cases in plastic surgery as in OS,

It’s funny how you mentioned cosmetic surgery. I know several colleagues who have done a cosmetics fellowship (both single and dual degree). Out of the three of them - they do zero cosmetics in daily practice. Since they finished their fellowship they probably haven’t done any cosmetic procedures period.
Obviously there will be some oral surgeons that do cosmetics regularly.

 

[carabelliscusp]

It’s funny how you mentioned cosmetic surgery. I know several colleagues who have done a cosmetics fellowship (both single and dual degree). Out of the three of them - they do zero cosmetics in daily practice. Since they finished their fellowship they probably haven’t done any cosmetic procedures period.
Obviously there will be some oral surgeons that do cosmetics regularly.

Whats the reason for this? saturation? There are people that seem to just do plastics (Eppley, Niamtu, Cuzalina) and make a practice out of it

 

[Silver_arrow]

Whats the reason for this? saturation? There are people that seem to just do plastics (Eppley, Niamtu, Cuzalina) and make a practice out of it

I can’t speak on behalf of them but this is the general reasoning :

1) it’s quite difficult to build a cosmetic practice and generate referrals when compared to a traditional omfs practice (way easier to just buy a practice, join a practice, or just do corporate).

2) there is a ton of competition/saturation and turf war for cosmetic surgery, especially if you want to live in a desirable area. I don’t want to misquote one of my colleagues. But this is basically what he told me - cosmetics patients have very high expectations. All surgeons will encounter complications and cosmetic surgery is no different. When an unhappy patient goes to a different cosmetic surgeon, in light of a complication, say an ent or plastic surgeon would be happy to throw him under the bus. Of course this is just one of my colleagues opinions. Others may have different opinions.

3) did I mention that traditional omfs and anesthesia pays very well? There simply is no reason to do anything else if one were to consider lifestyle and compensation.

 

[Undecided__]

Whats the reason for this? saturation? There are people that seem to just do plastics (Eppley, Niamtu, Cuzalina) and make a practice out of it

The OS I shadowed said he stopped doing cosmetic surgery b/c patients who was referred by general dentists would have to wait at least 3 weeks out to be seen because he was so busy with cosmetic cases. Ultimately, he decided that he preferred bread and butter OS...

 

[yappy]

Whats the reason for this? saturation? There are people that seem to just do plastics (Eppley, Niamtu, Cuzalina) and make a practice out of it

Why would a patient go to an OMS when they can go to a PRS?.
If I were a patient I would prefer an expert practicing their core specialty VS the surgical equivalent of a Swiss Army knife.

 

[ToothJockey]

Why would a patient go to an OMS when they can go to a PRS?.
If I were a patient I would prefer an expert practicing their core specialty VS the surgical equivalent of a Swiss Army knife.

The surgeons you quoted have been practicing plastic surgery for decades. It's pretty disingenuous to say they're the surgical equivalent of a Swiss Army Knife. A good surgeon is a good surgeon. Just look at the success of their practices. It speaks for itself

 

[piratewow]

Why would a patient go to an OMS when they can go to a PRS?.
If I were a patient I would prefer an expert practicing their core specialty VS the surgical equivalent of a Swiss Army knife.

Eh in theory sure, but in actuality your scope is more dictated by what you end up doing. Do you want a nose job from a fresh out PRS who got a grand total of 3-4 months facial cosmetics in residency?( PRS is free flaps, wound coverage for ortho, hand recon, breast, etc. and a decent amount of programs truly do little to no facial cosmetics). Or do you want a fresh out OMFS or ENT that literally has spent their whole residency working on the face? The real answer is the guy who’s been doing it for 20 years, but I digress. Point is PRS =/= facial cosmetics despite what the lay public thinks.

 

[Silver_arrow]

Why would a patient go to an OMS when they can go to a PRS?.
If I were a patient I would prefer an expert practicing their core specialty VS the surgical equivalent of a Swiss Army knife.

What would you say about the plastic or ent surgeon who does orthognathic surgery?

How about the plastic or ent surgeons who treat mandible fractures and place hardware into the mental or inferior alveolar nerve ? (I have plenty of x rays).

Would you also call them a Swiss Army knife ?

 

[Silver_arrow]

My previous comment about my *small* group of colleagues was not really about cosmetic surgery. All of them are fantastically trained.

I was merely just highlighting a point that traditional omfs is really awesome and mind blowing. It provides a great career. One doesn’t need to look elsewhere unless they had a special interest.

Trust me if dental alveolar surgery was a fellowship plenty of ent and and plastic surgeons would be signing up for it.

 

[PhansterZ]

Why would a patient go to an OMS when they can go to a PRS?.
If I were a patient I would prefer an expert practicing their core specialty VS the surgical equivalent of a Swiss Army knife.

Do you do extractions? Or do you refer all of it out to the OMS?

 

[DMD12345]

Feb 17th CBSE

Another resource you could consider looking into is Zanki. Zanki? I just looked into it. Its kind of flash cards? found a link in reddit. p.s thank you for your kind reply and consideration

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