B
bleach
Could any of you who has either interviewed at University of Illinois at Chicago or externed or attended give some feedback about it ? Thanks
OMFS Programs Overview
- Thread starter Squished Rat
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2007
- Messages
- 91
- Reaction score
- 0
This is a program in transition. They were under a tenured chief who did not give a lot of education to the residents. It was mainly an exodontia program, with all trauma and OR cases going across the street to Cook County, which has its own OMFS program.
However, they recently acquired Michael Miloro as chair. He's a Penn trained surgeon who's spent time at numerous programs, most namely Nebraska as chair for some time. He had just got there this summer, and it sounded like they were cutting more by the week, literally. It seems like they're going to have a strong program on their hands with him at the helm. The residents all seemed very positive about him being there and the impact it would have on the program.
Facilities are very nice. Their school clinic is new and attractive. The hospital isn't so special, but fine to work in. Very little call, and no other clinics. Definitely a lighter program in terms of commuting. UIC is 15 minutes from downtown Chi.
Residents seemed happy. They take 3 per year, plus interns. As of now it's all straight 4-year slots, but supposedly Miloro has the 6-year slots starting next year, if not, the year after.
UIC seemed like a nice place to be. Not clobbered with work, but a solid experience. Very exodontia based now. With Miloro there it will no doubt be strong, and better rounded soon.
It's surprising that Chicago, such a power house city has no stand out OMFS program. If things go their way, UIC could become impressive sometime soon.
Hope that helped
-2th
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2008
- Messages
- 1
- Reaction score
- 0
Does Anyone know anything about WVU's OMFS program?
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2007
- Messages
- 91
- Reaction score
- 0
I have a friend who is just finishing his first year there. He has told me both good and bad things, which is probably what you would hear from any resident anywhere.
It's VERY busy. Apparently BU gets the bulk of the Boston trauma, where as Tufts and MGH deal with different populations/pathology so to speak. When he's on call, he works like a dog, and clinic is rough on a daily basis. Attendings are supposedly very solid, and work them as hard as is reasonable as far as didactics, and out of clinic scut work alike.
He said that if he could choose again, he'd likely choose the same, but did not realize from the pitch at the interview how rigorous the program was. However, it sounds like a very well rounded 4-yr program that exposes you to a lot. I know he said he feels he will be well prepared for private practice, or part time hospital work.
Hope that helps.
We should get this thread more active, between all the people on this forum we could probably profile like 2 dozen programs....let's keep 'em coming!!
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2008
- Messages
- 178
- Reaction score
- 3
Did you friend say anything about the rest of the scope and case load of the program beyond the trauma aspect (orthognathics, TMJ, malignant path, benign path, cosmetics, craniofacial, implants)? Thanks for any info.
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2007
- Messages
- 91
- Reaction score
- 0
As far as I remember, he said they did largely dentoalveolar, benign jaw path, some craniofacial and some implants. Didn't remember him talking a ton about complet TMJ or orthognathics, or oncology.
He was in his 4th month of intern year, so he was more discussing the pace/stresses than the cool stuff a chief might have been doing while he was being paged to the ER doing scut work.
He was in his 4th month of intern year, so he was more discussing the pace/stresses than the cool stuff a chief might have been doing while he was being paged to the ER doing scut work.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2008
- Messages
- 22
- Reaction score
- 5
Externed only at LSU-Shreveport so by no means should I be considered the authority on this program, but since no one else has posted anything on it, I will give my two cents.
Lots of big cases with a broad scope in the OR with limited scope in the Clinic/Dentoalveolar arena. Spent one week there and saw 2 "neck whacks" (one bilateral and one unilateral modified radical neck dissection, each with microvascular free tissue transfer from the forearm). Saw primary lip repair, Double Jaw, tons of trauma, etc.
That is what is what I saw. I think it is also interesting to note that in one day, Dr. Ghali was going from OR to OR while his residents were doing most of the cutting. I.e. he would literally walk into the neck-whack room and help for about and hour, then he would leave and go check on the primary lip repair, etc.
What I gathered from the residents about their scope and numbers:
-Borderline too much trauma
-When asked how often neck-whacks were done, one of the residents said "about two a week."
-Dr. Ghali does the full arsenal of craniofacial procedures including crazy synostosis cases along with primary lips, etc.
-Decent amount of Orthognathic cases.
-Didn't ask about cosmetics, but didn't see any. May be done as private patients of Dr. Ghali's. But seeing as Ghali has a chapter in the Peterson textbook on facelifts, I am sure the residents get a fair share of experience.
-Intern year, you get sedation trained and will do some sedations in the clinic taking out wizzies, etc, but aren't going to see alot of this.
Summary:
Strengths: Lots of OR time, with 2 designated ORs, covering the full gamut of OR procedures with possible emphasis on truama and oncology. As a 5th and 6th year resident, you will practically live in the OR, usually doing about 2-3 cases a day or the 1 neck whack. Ghali in himself is a plus, bringing in procedures that other Surgeons in our profession would not even attempt. Very little time in Med School (approximately 16 months I believe). I believe it was 8 months of General Surgery with some flexibility as to which areas you actually rotate through.
Weaknesses: Lots of trauma which might be brutal your intern year only, Very little implant procedures, most of which seemed very basic. I believe resident told me about 40 implants is what he expects to place. Lots of followup care for oncology patients, lots of point and pull in the clinic during your intern and 3rd years.
As for Shreveport itself, the area around the hospital is pretty bad, but the city has some nice areas. One resident described it accurately to me when he said "Shreveport is nice enough that you have stuff to do during residency, but not enough that you feel like your missing something."
If anyone cares to add to/correct something from the above, please feel free to do so.
Lots of big cases with a broad scope in the OR with limited scope in the Clinic/Dentoalveolar arena. Spent one week there and saw 2 "neck whacks" (one bilateral and one unilateral modified radical neck dissection, each with microvascular free tissue transfer from the forearm). Saw primary lip repair, Double Jaw, tons of trauma, etc.
That is what is what I saw. I think it is also interesting to note that in one day, Dr. Ghali was going from OR to OR while his residents were doing most of the cutting. I.e. he would literally walk into the neck-whack room and help for about and hour, then he would leave and go check on the primary lip repair, etc.
What I gathered from the residents about their scope and numbers:
-Borderline too much trauma
-When asked how often neck-whacks were done, one of the residents said "about two a week."
-Dr. Ghali does the full arsenal of craniofacial procedures including crazy synostosis cases along with primary lips, etc.
-Decent amount of Orthognathic cases.
-Didn't ask about cosmetics, but didn't see any. May be done as private patients of Dr. Ghali's. But seeing as Ghali has a chapter in the Peterson textbook on facelifts, I am sure the residents get a fair share of experience.
-Intern year, you get sedation trained and will do some sedations in the clinic taking out wizzies, etc, but aren't going to see alot of this.
Summary:
Strengths: Lots of OR time, with 2 designated ORs, covering the full gamut of OR procedures with possible emphasis on truama and oncology. As a 5th and 6th year resident, you will practically live in the OR, usually doing about 2-3 cases a day or the 1 neck whack. Ghali in himself is a plus, bringing in procedures that other Surgeons in our profession would not even attempt. Very little time in Med School (approximately 16 months I believe). I believe it was 8 months of General Surgery with some flexibility as to which areas you actually rotate through.
Weaknesses: Lots of trauma which might be brutal your intern year only, Very little implant procedures, most of which seemed very basic. I believe resident told me about 40 implants is what he expects to place. Lots of followup care for oncology patients, lots of point and pull in the clinic during your intern and 3rd years.
As for Shreveport itself, the area around the hospital is pretty bad, but the city has some nice areas. One resident described it accurately to me when he said "Shreveport is nice enough that you have stuff to do during residency, but not enough that you feel like your missing something."
If anyone cares to add to/correct something from the above, please feel free to do so.
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2004
- Messages
- 1,961
- Reaction score
- 2
Maryland is a really strong program that is heavy in cancer/recon if you are looking for this.
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2009
- Messages
- 16
- Reaction score
- 0
hi ,am moiz. am a graduate from a non accredited dental college of pakistan.. i just want to get residency in any field in a dental college of america. i wanted to know if any1 have any idea whether i have to simply give national board exams and apply for residency or do i have to repeat my 3rd and 4th year in an american college?
- Joined
- May 24, 2005
- Messages
- 5
- Reaction score
- 0
The best programs in the country is a tough question but without a doubt you have to check out Nebraska's program. They do alot of face cosmetics and the plastics department and the head and neck surgery department are run by previous OMFS guys. Which means you are in good with the other departments and get to do alot of surgery with them.
Think about it though. It is a 5 year program. If you really like one type of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery you could do a fellowship and still be done at the same time your best friend completed a 6 year program. Or you could open an office for a year and hire your best friend when he gets out in 6. Plus the program is really strong I've heard. I would definitely check it out.
In my eyes top 5 programs: Nebraska, Parkland, Oregon, Alabama, Jacksonville.
Think about it though. It is a 5 year program. If you really like one type of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery you could do a fellowship and still be done at the same time your best friend completed a 6 year program. Or you could open an office for a year and hire your best friend when he gets out in 6. Plus the program is really strong I've heard. I would definitely check it out.
In my eyes top 5 programs: Nebraska, Parkland, Oregon, Alabama, Jacksonville.
Top 10...meaning the residents graduating from these programs are the best trained in all areas of OMFS. Most other programs are good, and each of these programs have exceptional residents. But the residents from my 10 from what I've seen have the broadest scope of training.
Oregon
Parkland
Maryland
Jacksonville
Loma Linda
Louisville
LSU-Shreveport
LSU-NO
Nebraska
Emory
Oregon
Parkland
Maryland
Jacksonville
Loma Linda
Louisville
LSU-Shreveport
LSU-NO
Nebraska
Emory
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2008
- Messages
- 8
- Reaction score
- 0
UMDNJ - University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey program overview
6 year spot, 4 year spot, 2x 1 year interns.
Posted by: 1st year resident
This is the prototype of a well rounded, OR centered OMFS program that cranks out quality surgeons year after year. The six year spot has 45 months on OMFS service, 16 months medical school, 6 months general surgery, 4 months anesthesia. 45 months of OMFS is the highest in the country. During your first year, you will run the emergency clinic which sees about 60 patients/day. The clinic has the typical bombed out teeth, but also walk-in trauma cases from the streets of Newark. Prisoners are transported here daily for facial trauma and removal of impacted thirds. Call is q5 which frees up 2 weekends a month to do your own thing. Trauma is very heavy. We typically see 1-2x mandibles/day. We do wire mandibles in the ED in the middle of the night, mostly because we need the OR time. As a first year, you will do some cutting in the OR. OR case load continues to increase by 5% per year.
As an upper level resident, you will be cutting 100% of the case. We have 3 days of designated OR block time. Attendings here often don't scrub, or when they do scrub they hold sticks the whole time. Ziccardi, the chair, brings in nerve repair cases, cosmetics, craniofacial (cleft lips/palates). Aziz brings in 1-2 orthognathic cases/week, plenty of path, and some TMJ. Aziz and Ziccardi also do 2-3 cleft mission trips per year cutting on 30-40 clefts per trip. Ziccardi runs the craniofacial team for the hospital. Zweig runs the dental implant center at the dental school which brings in an unlimited amount of implants for the OMFS guys. 2 years ago the chief placed 300+ implants. The dental school brings in a ton of dentoalveolar exposure - ramus/symphaseal block grafts, sinus lifts, sedations, etc. You'll do well over 200 sedation cases before you're done here. Gorzelnick is cosmetic and trauma fellowship trained and will cut on anything. Chemical peels, dermabrasion, facelifts, botox, restylane, bleph's are all done. The OR is very resident driven, with the ability to experiment with different approaches, plating options, etc.
Resident life is good. The program is very stable with 6 full time attendings. Lots of opportunites from research, mission trips, working up cases, surgical approaches, etc. Also, it pays 5/6 years and you can unofficially moonlight, which is quite lucrative. Attendings are not malignant at all. After morning rounds residents and faculty all eat breakfast together, then each lunch when clinic breaks. A huge strength to this program is the quality of residents they have: Bright, hard working, and very cool. Residents look out for each other, and the upper levels minimize the scut. Newark is a complete dump, but most residents live in Hoboken, NJ or NYC.
Overall, this is a very busy program that is trauma, path, orthognathic and dentoalveolar heavy. The cleft lip and palate experience here is unprecidented. Research experience is expected and encouraged. We do zero cancer here, but if you're interested in that you have opportunities to rotate with ENT to get exposure. I ranked this program #1 and am very satisfied 2 months in. This is definitely a program worth checking out.
Good luck with applications this year.
6 year spot, 4 year spot, 2x 1 year interns.
Posted by: 1st year resident
This is the prototype of a well rounded, OR centered OMFS program that cranks out quality surgeons year after year. The six year spot has 45 months on OMFS service, 16 months medical school, 6 months general surgery, 4 months anesthesia. 45 months of OMFS is the highest in the country. During your first year, you will run the emergency clinic which sees about 60 patients/day. The clinic has the typical bombed out teeth, but also walk-in trauma cases from the streets of Newark. Prisoners are transported here daily for facial trauma and removal of impacted thirds. Call is q5 which frees up 2 weekends a month to do your own thing. Trauma is very heavy. We typically see 1-2x mandibles/day. We do wire mandibles in the ED in the middle of the night, mostly because we need the OR time. As a first year, you will do some cutting in the OR. OR case load continues to increase by 5% per year.
As an upper level resident, you will be cutting 100% of the case. We have 3 days of designated OR block time. Attendings here often don't scrub, or when they do scrub they hold sticks the whole time. Ziccardi, the chair, brings in nerve repair cases, cosmetics, craniofacial (cleft lips/palates). Aziz brings in 1-2 orthognathic cases/week, plenty of path, and some TMJ. Aziz and Ziccardi also do 2-3 cleft mission trips per year cutting on 30-40 clefts per trip. Ziccardi runs the craniofacial team for the hospital. Zweig runs the dental implant center at the dental school which brings in an unlimited amount of implants for the OMFS guys. 2 years ago the chief placed 300+ implants. The dental school brings in a ton of dentoalveolar exposure - ramus/symphaseal block grafts, sinus lifts, sedations, etc. You'll do well over 200 sedation cases before you're done here. Gorzelnick is cosmetic and trauma fellowship trained and will cut on anything. Chemical peels, dermabrasion, facelifts, botox, restylane, bleph's are all done. The OR is very resident driven, with the ability to experiment with different approaches, plating options, etc.
Resident life is good. The program is very stable with 6 full time attendings. Lots of opportunites from research, mission trips, working up cases, surgical approaches, etc. Also, it pays 5/6 years and you can unofficially moonlight, which is quite lucrative. Attendings are not malignant at all. After morning rounds residents and faculty all eat breakfast together, then each lunch when clinic breaks. A huge strength to this program is the quality of residents they have: Bright, hard working, and very cool. Residents look out for each other, and the upper levels minimize the scut. Newark is a complete dump, but most residents live in Hoboken, NJ or NYC.
Overall, this is a very busy program that is trauma, path, orthognathic and dentoalveolar heavy. The cleft lip and palate experience here is unprecidented. Research experience is expected and encouraged. We do zero cancer here, but if you're interested in that you have opportunities to rotate with ENT to get exposure. I ranked this program #1 and am very satisfied 2 months in. This is definitely a program worth checking out.
Good luck with applications this year.
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2009
- Messages
- 5
- Reaction score
- 0
NYU is a great program that is heavy in pathology, orthognathics, and DA/implants. I'm sure they do more but this is what I've heard. If your looking to live in NYC you can't go wrong with it. Plus they have an attending that does head and neck surgery which brings a lot to the program. This is the only North East program that does head and neck to my knowledge so if your looking to be on the East coat and cut big cases I would recommend checking out this program. Only negatives are the cost of the med school, but last year U.S. News ranked it #34.
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2008
- Messages
- 233
- Reaction score
- 6
Maryland anyone?
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2008
- Messages
- 178
- Reaction score
- 3
UoKy is a great program that has a nice blend of both clinical and surgical OMFS. Program has a clinic in the dental school where they are extremely busy doing sedations, 3rds, prepros, and implants. Most of the patients are scheduled and pretty much everything is done under sedation. They only do walk-in point and pull from 930-about 1030 each day (about 10 patients or so). Dr. Dembo does a sedation course during the first 2 weeks for the interns and then they can sedate in the clinic, which is a huge plus. They also have a clinic in the VA, which one intern runs by themselves with lots of dentoalveolar and sedations going on. Trauma at UoKy is split up for face call every third day with no anatomical restrictions. Face call seemed to be pretty busy when on with a good mix of lacs, mandibles, and midface. Surgically I felt the program was pretty diverse and during my externship I saw a huge variety of cases. With Van Sickles there are tons of orthognathic cases going to the OR. I saw several double jaws, some with multiple piece leforts, geniohyoid advancements, and a good bit of distraction cases. Seemed like distraction osteogenesis was a main stay in Van Sickles's larger orthognathics cases, and I saw several cases of maxillary distraction while I was there. Cunningham is the other main operator and he did a wide variety of cases also. While there I saw some trauma surg, SSCa on a nose with supplemental skin graft, basal cell removal with rotational flap reconstruction, hemimandibulectomy done my OMS (big ameloblastoma) with free fib recon (done by ENT and OMS chief resident), and ICGB to dentoalveolar cleft. Dr. Cobetto is the last attending (he was in private practice for a long time before coming back to teach) and he spends most of his time covering the clinic, which I think is a plus because the residents here get great exposure to dentoalveolar and implants with him. Cobetto also takes smaller cases to the OR (he is getting more cases the longer he is there) and covers some trauma. Overall, I think it is a great program with very strong faculty, a strong clinic, and strong OR case load.
The only major downside I see to the program is the huge amount of time spent in medical school. Residents spend 1 year as intern, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th year of medical school, 4 months on service, 8 months on G surg, and then 12 months as chief. The length of med school is my only concern with the program but other than that it seems like a great place with very cool residents.
The only major downside I see to the program is the huge amount of time spent in medical school. Residents spend 1 year as intern, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th year of medical school, 4 months on service, 8 months on G surg, and then 12 months as chief. The length of med school is my only concern with the program but other than that it seems like a great place with very cool residents.
Last edited:
Cunningham (who is now the new department chair) told me that he is working out a deal with the medical school to cut the med school time (and tuition) to 2 years. Residents will do the last 6 mo's of M2, all of M3, and 6 mo's of M4, with the rest of the time being on OMS service and anesthesia. Not sure when and if all this will happen, but I figured I'd let you know since it was a concern for you.
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2008
- Messages
- 178
- Reaction score
- 3
Thanks for the heads up. keep the board posted if any of these changes go through because that could make a great program an even better program.
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2009
- Messages
- 5
- Reaction score
- 0
Wow...I had no idea that Kentucky was such a good program. I knew it was good, but definitely didn't know that it was that good.
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2005
- Messages
- 460
- Reaction score
- 16
I've been following this thread for quite some time, as well as others and it still surprises me that not that much is actually known about Miami. I'd like to think that most of what I write below is factual, but perhaps some of it could be my own biased opinion. Nevertheless, I hope it sheds some light on our program and ultimately I hope it encourages more people to apply. Hopefully we'll get a real website up and running one of these days. Anyway here goes...
Jackson Memorial/University of Miami
Professor Emeritus: Stuart Kline DDS
Chief/Chair: Robert E. Marx DDS
Program Director: Michael Peleg DMD
Other Full Time OMFS Attendings: Yoh Sawatari DDS, Jesus Gomez DDS, Daniel Atallah DMD.
Hospitals:
79 Acre Medical Campus is the main setting...
-Jackson Memorial Hospital (Including Ryder Trauma Center and Holtz Children's Hospital). This is the 3rd largest teaching hospital in the country and the only public hospital for Miami-Dade County. 1600 Beds. Home to our very busy outpatient clinic with 50-80 patients receiving dental-alveolar surgery/exodontia daily as well as post-op follow-ups. On a daily basis the strangest things come through our doors here... from helicopter level 1 trauma, walk-in gunshot wounds, massive tumors, strange and rare diseases/conditions. Its never a dull moment to say the least...
-VA Miami- Across from JMH. Busy clinic in conjunction with the VA GPR program. Usually a 3rd year and 1st Year OMFS staff the clinic, providing advanced dental-alveolar/implant/bone-grafting surgery. Facial Skin Cancer Surgery/MOHS Repair/Reconstructions. Obstructive Sleep Apnea surgery. Occasionally some benign and malignant pathology is treated here instead of across the street.
-University of Miami Hospital- 550 beds, adjacent to JMH. We are building a clinic here that is set to open this year or early next year. Word has it that it will be an "international implant center" as well.
-Jackson South Community Hospital- 200 beds. Approx 15 miles south of JMH. This is where we have a busy outpatient clinic and where Dr. Marx treats the majority of his patients. All of the attendings also operate from here as well, usually at least once a week.
Scope:
All attendings at our program presently have trained here or completed fellowship training here. Therefore they all practice the full-scope of the specialty. They are all board certified. All attendings cover trauma, trachs, treat benign and malignant lesions, orthognathics, raise flaps and perform bony and soft-tissue reconstruction and dental-alveolar/anesthesia. They are all well published and actively participate in on-going research. The attendings are nationally and internationally recognized and draw referrals from all over the world... be it for dental implants/bone grafting to orthognathics/post-traumatic reconstructions and treatment MASSIVE TUMORS (often labled non-operable /non resectable). I believe the attendings really do care about the residents, and even though sometimes they are hard on us, they know what we are going through because they trained here at a time when this place was much more malignant than it is today. The seniors earn an immense trust from the attendings, and its very impressive watching such well known attendings holding sticks for the residents, in order for the residents to truly get the hands on experience. Dr. Marx is known around the world for his work on bone research, ORN, BIONJ, BMP, PRP, Flaps, Tumors etc. Dr. Peleg is an awesome program director and he brings a lot to the table for us (also fellowship trained under Dr. Marx). Dr. Gomez is additionally fellowship trained in Anesthesia and always seems to have camera crews following him from discovery health/tlc/the news because of his treatment of major tumors/craniofacial issues in children. Dr. Sawatari also tackles some pretty big full-scope cases, takes the seniors on the Cleft Missions and is pretty busy working on new publications with other attendings and the residents/interns. Dr. Attalah has been praised for widely expanding the OMFS presence at the VA, bringing in a lot more of the dental-alveolar/implant training, the OSA surgery and Skin Cancer surgery/reconstructive flaps to what was previously just a tooth-schucking rotation. We also have Dr. Diane Stern, co-author of Dr. Marx' pathology book. She comes 2 times a month to provide in-depth histopathology lectures. Lastly Dr. Kates (completed both OMFS and Anesthesia residencies back in the 1960's/70's) holds appointments to both our service and to the division of anesthesiology, with full attending privileges in anesthesia...
The Senior Residents and Chief Residents literally perform 90%-100% of the operation. The seniors and chiefs present their desired approach/treatment and get the "green-light" almost every time. Based on the numbers I saw last year, there were close to 1000 major operations performed last year with a pretty equal distribution between amongst the chiefs and 3rd years respectively. Additional training in cleft/craniofacial surgery is received with multiple yearly mission trips. Additional orthognathic/cosmetic training is received with a 2 month rotation to the Portsmouth Naval Medical Center in Virginia. (They send us a senior resident so they receive additional trauma and pathology experience). In my opinion the program is extremely busy, and could easily accomodate at least 1 more resident and probably 1-2 more interns.
1 Year OMFS Internship- 4 Positions. Duties include primary call Q3/Q4 covering cranio-maxillofacial trauma, covering 7 seperate ER's and Ryder Trauma Center at Jackson Memorial Hospital. 99% of mandibles are treated by the intern with Closed Reduction/MMF under local anesthesia in the ER or Trauma and then admitted for definitive ORIF later in the week. The interns are also expected to perform closed reductions of nasal fractures and to reduce isolated zygomatic arches under local anesthesia. On any given night they are busy sewing up a ton of complex lacerations, draining lots of pus (intraorally and often extraorally) and probably wiring a mandible or two!!! Topping this off the interns are responsible for managing our in-patients overnight, be it initial consultation, admission/work-up, pre-op, and post-op. The average in-patient census is from 10-15 patients. Our patients are often very sick and medically compromised. The intern on call must round on and provide necessary wound care for these patients during their call shift. They present detailed reports at morning rounds for every patient on our list. To put it bluntly, the interns are literally up all night working like dogs in order to be ready for 6am rounds (no mandibles pending, all patients clean and ready for AM presentation, and all pre-ops ready for surgery). Our program prides itself on working extremely hard, and the interns work especially hard to avoid having anything pending by 6am rounds. They do get to the OR, but not nearly as much as they would like to... it varies depending on the time of year and where the "man(woman)- power" is divided throughout the rotation schedule.
Residency 4 years in length with MD Option at the end. We take 3 Residents per year. They all start out with 2 months at Jackson Memorial performing the above duties/responsibilities of the interns. After the initial 2 months, off-service rotations begin.
1st Year: 1 Month Medicine, 1 Month ER, 4 Months Anesthesia. The remainder is divided to coverage at the VA or Jackson South Services. Occasional weekend coverage of Jackson Memorial/Trauma.
2nd Year: Trauma/General Surgery 4 Months. ICU 1 Month. Remainder divided between coverage of VA, Jackson South, and Jackson Memorial.
3rd Year: Spent primarily in the OR covering Univ Miami, Jackson Memorial (elective or trauma senior), Jackson South or VA. Navy 2 Month Rotation. ENT 1 month and 1 Month of Pediatric Anesthesia.
4th Year: Chiefs again rotate through Jackson Memorial (Elective/Trauma)Jackson South & Univ Miami Hospital. They come out of here extremely well trained and qualified by the time they are done.
Other stuff: -Talking to the chiefs last year and looking at their DDS4DDS logs, they each came out with over 250 major operations under their belt in the chief year alone. Judging from what I saw from the 3rd years, they probably cut at least 100 major cases by themselves (one day a week the 3rd year gets their own OR just like a chief). Each of the chiefs did somewhere between 130-200 implants over the 4 years, 60-80 sinus lifts, at least 40-60 block grafts autogenous or allogeneic, and a TON of major bone grafts (anterior/posterior hip, tibial, calvarial, intraoral, BMAC, BMP, PRP...)
-Anesthesia... you can find one of my other posts regarding the scope of training we get here with that. Do a search if you are interested.
-We don't perform microvascular, but when necessary, we'll involve plastics in the case. Our service seems to be very busy treating failed microvascular cases from around the country. Of course our program is also associated with research/treatment of Osteoradionecrosis/HBO Therapy, Bisphosphonate Induced Osteonecrosis of the Jaws, BMP Research, PRP Research, Tent Pole Procedure, Major Tumor Surgery, and Flap Reconstruction (Pectoralis, Latissimus Dorsi, Trapezius, Temporalis etc)...
-The program does have a pretty strong tradition of graduating females as well, which is rare for many OMFS programs. There are presently 3 in our program.
-Interns are all usually competing for a position here for the following year. They almost all match somewhere in the country, because our attendings are very pro-active in getting the interns matched. Usually 1 intern stays, but there have been years where they haven't kept a single one and other years where they have kept two. It varies year to year... Sometimes they take people straight out of dental school, othertimes they take someone who has intered here or at another institution or completed a GPR. There really is no set formula. They just take who they like and who they feel they can trust and train.
But its not all roses here either. This place provides excellent and superior training, but it certainly isn't for everyone. I was a resident at another hospital some years ago and although the scope is the same, the volume and environment are certainly different. I've externed at half a dozen programs and have friends in programs all over the country and when we talk, they are in absolute disbelief at how rough things can be here. The hospitals, especially at JMH are difficult to navigate and very hostile... Overcrowded, with overworked and bad-attitude nursing and support staff. Simple and Efficient are non-existent here. Nobody knows the meaning of those words. In fact it seems like everybody from Hospital Administrators to RN's and Support Staff all make an effort to go out of their way to make providing relatively simple care for your patients almost IMPOSSIBLE. Hospital politics and battles within the system really frustrate the residents and attendings who just want to treat the patients properly. There are battles between the hospital and the outpatient clinics. We are a system where our attendings are faculty in the medical school and the university and our patients may belong to the university, the clinic, or the public hospital... and this muddies the water when it comes to delivering care. The patients are often very complex, very sick, and often times very hostile/suspicious of the doctors. Top this off with most of the patients being unable or often UNWILLING to speak English. The # 1 spoken language of patients here is Spanish. # 2 is Creole. # 3 English. You get to know the translation services line very well here as you slowly improve your spanish and some creole. Residents don't traditionally hang out outside of the hospital like in other programs. Not very family friendly either. The juniors do not interact very much with the Attendings except during the ever pleasant "pimping sessions." It really thickens your skin here to say the least. But everybody gets through... you just learn to survive and adapt. There certainly is something very special about training here... its a love/hate relationship. But I feel fairly confident that it will all be worth it in the end.
By the way, living in Miami... pretty nice. Think about that before you commit to pissing ice-cubes in 20 below weather
Anyway, Good luck to everybody out there! Remember, the best program is the one you get into provided you make the most out of your experience. Your goal is to come out ready to pass the boards and that can be achieved with almost any program provided you dedicate your 4-6 years appropriately.
Jackson Memorial/University of Miami
Professor Emeritus: Stuart Kline DDS
Chief/Chair: Robert E. Marx DDS
Program Director: Michael Peleg DMD
Other Full Time OMFS Attendings: Yoh Sawatari DDS, Jesus Gomez DDS, Daniel Atallah DMD.
Hospitals:
79 Acre Medical Campus is the main setting...
-Jackson Memorial Hospital (Including Ryder Trauma Center and Holtz Children's Hospital). This is the 3rd largest teaching hospital in the country and the only public hospital for Miami-Dade County. 1600 Beds. Home to our very busy outpatient clinic with 50-80 patients receiving dental-alveolar surgery/exodontia daily as well as post-op follow-ups. On a daily basis the strangest things come through our doors here... from helicopter level 1 trauma, walk-in gunshot wounds, massive tumors, strange and rare diseases/conditions. Its never a dull moment to say the least...
-VA Miami- Across from JMH. Busy clinic in conjunction with the VA GPR program. Usually a 3rd year and 1st Year OMFS staff the clinic, providing advanced dental-alveolar/implant/bone-grafting surgery. Facial Skin Cancer Surgery/MOHS Repair/Reconstructions. Obstructive Sleep Apnea surgery. Occasionally some benign and malignant pathology is treated here instead of across the street.
-University of Miami Hospital- 550 beds, adjacent to JMH. We are building a clinic here that is set to open this year or early next year. Word has it that it will be an "international implant center" as well.
-Jackson South Community Hospital- 200 beds. Approx 15 miles south of JMH. This is where we have a busy outpatient clinic and where Dr. Marx treats the majority of his patients. All of the attendings also operate from here as well, usually at least once a week.
Scope:
All attendings at our program presently have trained here or completed fellowship training here. Therefore they all practice the full-scope of the specialty. They are all board certified. All attendings cover trauma, trachs, treat benign and malignant lesions, orthognathics, raise flaps and perform bony and soft-tissue reconstruction and dental-alveolar/anesthesia. They are all well published and actively participate in on-going research. The attendings are nationally and internationally recognized and draw referrals from all over the world... be it for dental implants/bone grafting to orthognathics/post-traumatic reconstructions and treatment MASSIVE TUMORS (often labled non-operable /non resectable). I believe the attendings really do care about the residents, and even though sometimes they are hard on us, they know what we are going through because they trained here at a time when this place was much more malignant than it is today. The seniors earn an immense trust from the attendings, and its very impressive watching such well known attendings holding sticks for the residents, in order for the residents to truly get the hands on experience. Dr. Marx is known around the world for his work on bone research, ORN, BIONJ, BMP, PRP, Flaps, Tumors etc. Dr. Peleg is an awesome program director and he brings a lot to the table for us (also fellowship trained under Dr. Marx). Dr. Gomez is additionally fellowship trained in Anesthesia and always seems to have camera crews following him from discovery health/tlc/the news because of his treatment of major tumors/craniofacial issues in children. Dr. Sawatari also tackles some pretty big full-scope cases, takes the seniors on the Cleft Missions and is pretty busy working on new publications with other attendings and the residents/interns. Dr. Attalah has been praised for widely expanding the OMFS presence at the VA, bringing in a lot more of the dental-alveolar/implant training, the OSA surgery and Skin Cancer surgery/reconstructive flaps to what was previously just a tooth-schucking rotation. We also have Dr. Diane Stern, co-author of Dr. Marx' pathology book. She comes 2 times a month to provide in-depth histopathology lectures. Lastly Dr. Kates (completed both OMFS and Anesthesia residencies back in the 1960's/70's) holds appointments to both our service and to the division of anesthesiology, with full attending privileges in anesthesia...
The Senior Residents and Chief Residents literally perform 90%-100% of the operation. The seniors and chiefs present their desired approach/treatment and get the "green-light" almost every time. Based on the numbers I saw last year, there were close to 1000 major operations performed last year with a pretty equal distribution between amongst the chiefs and 3rd years respectively. Additional training in cleft/craniofacial surgery is received with multiple yearly mission trips. Additional orthognathic/cosmetic training is received with a 2 month rotation to the Portsmouth Naval Medical Center in Virginia. (They send us a senior resident so they receive additional trauma and pathology experience). In my opinion the program is extremely busy, and could easily accomodate at least 1 more resident and probably 1-2 more interns.
1 Year OMFS Internship- 4 Positions. Duties include primary call Q3/Q4 covering cranio-maxillofacial trauma, covering 7 seperate ER's and Ryder Trauma Center at Jackson Memorial Hospital. 99% of mandibles are treated by the intern with Closed Reduction/MMF under local anesthesia in the ER or Trauma and then admitted for definitive ORIF later in the week. The interns are also expected to perform closed reductions of nasal fractures and to reduce isolated zygomatic arches under local anesthesia. On any given night they are busy sewing up a ton of complex lacerations, draining lots of pus (intraorally and often extraorally) and probably wiring a mandible or two!!! Topping this off the interns are responsible for managing our in-patients overnight, be it initial consultation, admission/work-up, pre-op, and post-op. The average in-patient census is from 10-15 patients. Our patients are often very sick and medically compromised. The intern on call must round on and provide necessary wound care for these patients during their call shift. They present detailed reports at morning rounds for every patient on our list. To put it bluntly, the interns are literally up all night working like dogs in order to be ready for 6am rounds (no mandibles pending, all patients clean and ready for AM presentation, and all pre-ops ready for surgery). Our program prides itself on working extremely hard, and the interns work especially hard to avoid having anything pending by 6am rounds. They do get to the OR, but not nearly as much as they would like to... it varies depending on the time of year and where the "man(woman)- power" is divided throughout the rotation schedule.
Residency 4 years in length with MD Option at the end. We take 3 Residents per year. They all start out with 2 months at Jackson Memorial performing the above duties/responsibilities of the interns. After the initial 2 months, off-service rotations begin.
1st Year: 1 Month Medicine, 1 Month ER, 4 Months Anesthesia. The remainder is divided to coverage at the VA or Jackson South Services. Occasional weekend coverage of Jackson Memorial/Trauma.
2nd Year: Trauma/General Surgery 4 Months. ICU 1 Month. Remainder divided between coverage of VA, Jackson South, and Jackson Memorial.
3rd Year: Spent primarily in the OR covering Univ Miami, Jackson Memorial (elective or trauma senior), Jackson South or VA. Navy 2 Month Rotation. ENT 1 month and 1 Month of Pediatric Anesthesia.
4th Year: Chiefs again rotate through Jackson Memorial (Elective/Trauma)Jackson South & Univ Miami Hospital. They come out of here extremely well trained and qualified by the time they are done.
Other stuff: -Talking to the chiefs last year and looking at their DDS4DDS logs, they each came out with over 250 major operations under their belt in the chief year alone. Judging from what I saw from the 3rd years, they probably cut at least 100 major cases by themselves (one day a week the 3rd year gets their own OR just like a chief). Each of the chiefs did somewhere between 130-200 implants over the 4 years, 60-80 sinus lifts, at least 40-60 block grafts autogenous or allogeneic, and a TON of major bone grafts (anterior/posterior hip, tibial, calvarial, intraoral, BMAC, BMP, PRP...)
-Anesthesia... you can find one of my other posts regarding the scope of training we get here with that. Do a search if you are interested.
-We don't perform microvascular, but when necessary, we'll involve plastics in the case. Our service seems to be very busy treating failed microvascular cases from around the country. Of course our program is also associated with research/treatment of Osteoradionecrosis/HBO Therapy, Bisphosphonate Induced Osteonecrosis of the Jaws, BMP Research, PRP Research, Tent Pole Procedure, Major Tumor Surgery, and Flap Reconstruction (Pectoralis, Latissimus Dorsi, Trapezius, Temporalis etc)...
-The program does have a pretty strong tradition of graduating females as well, which is rare for many OMFS programs. There are presently 3 in our program.
-Interns are all usually competing for a position here for the following year. They almost all match somewhere in the country, because our attendings are very pro-active in getting the interns matched. Usually 1 intern stays, but there have been years where they haven't kept a single one and other years where they have kept two. It varies year to year... Sometimes they take people straight out of dental school, othertimes they take someone who has intered here or at another institution or completed a GPR. There really is no set formula. They just take who they like and who they feel they can trust and train.
But its not all roses here either. This place provides excellent and superior training, but it certainly isn't for everyone. I was a resident at another hospital some years ago and although the scope is the same, the volume and environment are certainly different. I've externed at half a dozen programs and have friends in programs all over the country and when we talk, they are in absolute disbelief at how rough things can be here. The hospitals, especially at JMH are difficult to navigate and very hostile... Overcrowded, with overworked and bad-attitude nursing and support staff. Simple and Efficient are non-existent here. Nobody knows the meaning of those words. In fact it seems like everybody from Hospital Administrators to RN's and Support Staff all make an effort to go out of their way to make providing relatively simple care for your patients almost IMPOSSIBLE. Hospital politics and battles within the system really frustrate the residents and attendings who just want to treat the patients properly. There are battles between the hospital and the outpatient clinics. We are a system where our attendings are faculty in the medical school and the university and our patients may belong to the university, the clinic, or the public hospital... and this muddies the water when it comes to delivering care. The patients are often very complex, very sick, and often times very hostile/suspicious of the doctors. Top this off with most of the patients being unable or often UNWILLING to speak English. The # 1 spoken language of patients here is Spanish. # 2 is Creole. # 3 English. You get to know the translation services line very well here as you slowly improve your spanish and some creole. Residents don't traditionally hang out outside of the hospital like in other programs. Not very family friendly either. The juniors do not interact very much with the Attendings except during the ever pleasant "pimping sessions." It really thickens your skin here to say the least. But everybody gets through... you just learn to survive and adapt. There certainly is something very special about training here... its a love/hate relationship. But I feel fairly confident that it will all be worth it in the end.
By the way, living in Miami... pretty nice. Think about that before you commit to pissing ice-cubes in 20 below weather
Anyway, Good luck to everybody out there! Remember, the best program is the one you get into provided you make the most out of your experience. Your goal is to come out ready to pass the boards and that can be achieved with almost any program provided you dedicate your 4-6 years appropriately.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2008
- Messages
- 178
- Reaction score
- 3
bifid do you think the fact that Marx takes path fellows each year dilutes the experiences for the residents?
also, i thought you were at carle in the past. Thanks for all the info about Jackson.
also, i thought you were at carle in the past. Thanks for all the info about Jackson.
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2005
- Messages
- 460
- Reaction score
- 16
There is no fellow this year. There are rumors we may take one on January. Not sure what was behind this. I don't think it dilutes the experience though because all of our attendings basically treat the same scope of patients. They may not personally do as many neck dissections and flaps as Dr. Marx does each year, but you still get these cases even when you aren't on his service. This place is just so incredibly busy I don't think I could even do it any justice from my descriptions.
And yah, I used to be at Carle before a family emergency pulled me away a couple of years ago... That's a freaking great program too! My family and life outside of OMFS were here in Florida, so it worked out for the best that ended up getting to stay here. I love it here and I absolutely love the program.
And yah, I used to be at Carle before a family emergency pulled me away a couple of years ago... That's a freaking great program too! My family and life outside of OMFS were here in Florida, so it worked out for the best that ended up getting to stay here. I love it here and I absolutely love the program.
- Joined
- Jul 10, 2004
- Messages
- 533
- Reaction score
- 6
I remember interviewing at JMH, and I was very impressed. I really liked the program and echo the feelings above in bifids posts about the attending. I got the impression that it was a super busy program and everyone was happy and were going to be very well trained. Although for me the lack of an integrated MD was the bummer. I still ranked it high!
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2009
- Messages
- 16
- Reaction score
- 0
Last edited:
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2009
- Messages
- 5
- Reaction score
- 0
From my understanding Miami has never had a resident go back and do the required 3 years of medical school plus a general surgery internship. That's 4 years away from OMFS. I never saw the point of doing this. Why not just do a fellowship in OMFS further develop your surgical skills, and be a high skilled dual degreed surgeon rather than a dual degreed surgeon with weak OMFS skills. Now, if someone wants to get the MD to go into plastics or ENT I can the point of going through all that to get the MD.
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2005
- Messages
- 460
- Reaction score
- 16
They have... some of them have additionally completed the fellowship with Dr. Marx or done the Anesthesiology Fellowship. I can think of quite a few residents from the last 7 years who completed the MD option. There are at least 2 residents in our program seriously considering it at the moment.
I think that a fellowship would be better, but to each their own.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2007
- Messages
- 91
- Reaction score
- 0
(The) Ohio State University is supposed to be a very well rounded 4-yr program. Good exposure to full scope, and supposedly more cosmetics than most programs out there, 4 or 6 yr.
University of Michigan is prob one of the fullest scope programs out there in regards to academics. Regular cancer cases (multiple weekly) as well as orthognathics/dentoalv/pediatric, and enough cosmetic....they have enough cases and volume that they have a 2 yr oncology fellowship they have
Otherwise, the midwest is somewhat lacking in program strength. The biggest city (Chicago) in the area has three programs, but all are somewhat lackluster. UIC is in transition, cook is all trauma, though Loyola is good.
Univ Minn is supposedly a solid 4yr, though I don't know any details first hand.
University of Michigan is prob one of the fullest scope programs out there in regards to academics. Regular cancer cases (multiple weekly) as well as orthognathics/dentoalv/pediatric, and enough cosmetic....they have enough cases and volume that they have a 2 yr oncology fellowship they have
Otherwise, the midwest is somewhat lacking in program strength. The biggest city (Chicago) in the area has three programs, but all are somewhat lackluster. UIC is in transition, cook is all trauma, though Loyola is good.
Univ Minn is supposedly a solid 4yr, though I don't know any details first hand.
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2008
- Messages
- 10
- Reaction score
- 1
Check the earlier posts of this thread for reviews on Nebraska, Case, Carle (IL), UMKC, Mayo, UIC. To add my brief impressions on a few:
UIC is becoming a solid program with Miloro. He will likely try to transition the program to an MD integrated format with the eventual goal of replicating Nebraska's program, which he still speaks highly of. I would expect this program to be legit very soon as Miloro is a ball-buster while also being pro-resident. In other words, at Nebraska he would push residents and push for residents and their experience.
That's a nice segue to Nebraska. I think the strongest aspect of this program is the 5 year format, though they haven't had the best passing rates with step 1. They do a fair amount of cosmetics and overall there is a lot of resident cutting. I don't know anything about Desa, but I hear he's the new PD and that he's a really cool guy.
Now onto Case, the other 5 year. Same kind of story - 5 year format is the big benefit, but they get 3 chances to pass Step 1 here instead of 2. Pretty swanky VA facility with tons of 3rds and implants your first year. Good cosmetic exposure. Residents are cool. Cleveland is not cool. Not a Level-1 trauma center.
Metro in Cleveland, last I heard (last year) was that they were not accredited. I haven't heard anything new - hopefully this is resolved. Evidently this is a Level-1, so if they combined forces with Case this could be pretty enticing. However, I have heard the PD at Metro is eternally resistant to this idea of being absorbed. I heard he is a talented guy with a lot to offer, but Metro and Case would be a powerhouse combined program and he is the biggest obstacle. Again, Cleveland is not cool.
Another program that is geographically challenged is Mayo, though supposedly Rochester is more cosmopolitan than you would expect. As for the experience, 40+ months of OMS time and impressive orthognathic numbers and a busy IV sed clinic. Good scope with plenty of the "zebras" that Mayo is prone to getting because of their name. They are also in the process of hiring a 5th attending, so we'll see how that shakes out. Could make that program a real stand-out.
Just up the road in Minneapolis is the University of Minnesota. 4 year program. Sounds pretty busy. They have a history of losing residents from time to time. This could be due to the fact that some of their residents did not rank them very highly but ended up there anyhow, so they didn't start out on the right foot. Doesn't sound like a very pleasant place, though Minneapolis is fun if you can stand the winter. They did just get a cancer guy, but the jury's still out. Seems like if it's busy they should be doing a lot, but I mostly just hear that it's busy.
So, from what I know and what I've heard, the midwest has some bright spots and some black sheep. These are very brief impressions, and I only really have personal information on the programs that were already reviewed in detail, so this info is basically supplementary. Hope it's still helpful.
UIC is becoming a solid program with Miloro. He will likely try to transition the program to an MD integrated format with the eventual goal of replicating Nebraska's program, which he still speaks highly of. I would expect this program to be legit very soon as Miloro is a ball-buster while also being pro-resident. In other words, at Nebraska he would push residents and push for residents and their experience.
That's a nice segue to Nebraska. I think the strongest aspect of this program is the 5 year format, though they haven't had the best passing rates with step 1. They do a fair amount of cosmetics and overall there is a lot of resident cutting. I don't know anything about Desa, but I hear he's the new PD and that he's a really cool guy.
Now onto Case, the other 5 year. Same kind of story - 5 year format is the big benefit, but they get 3 chances to pass Step 1 here instead of 2. Pretty swanky VA facility with tons of 3rds and implants your first year. Good cosmetic exposure. Residents are cool. Cleveland is not cool. Not a Level-1 trauma center.
Metro in Cleveland, last I heard (last year) was that they were not accredited. I haven't heard anything new - hopefully this is resolved. Evidently this is a Level-1, so if they combined forces with Case this could be pretty enticing. However, I have heard the PD at Metro is eternally resistant to this idea of being absorbed. I heard he is a talented guy with a lot to offer, but Metro and Case would be a powerhouse combined program and he is the biggest obstacle. Again, Cleveland is not cool.
Another program that is geographically challenged is Mayo, though supposedly Rochester is more cosmopolitan than you would expect. As for the experience, 40+ months of OMS time and impressive orthognathic numbers and a busy IV sed clinic. Good scope with plenty of the "zebras" that Mayo is prone to getting because of their name. They are also in the process of hiring a 5th attending, so we'll see how that shakes out. Could make that program a real stand-out.
Just up the road in Minneapolis is the University of Minnesota. 4 year program. Sounds pretty busy. They have a history of losing residents from time to time. This could be due to the fact that some of their residents did not rank them very highly but ended up there anyhow, so they didn't start out on the right foot. Doesn't sound like a very pleasant place, though Minneapolis is fun if you can stand the winter. They did just get a cancer guy, but the jury's still out. Seems like if it's busy they should be doing a lot, but I mostly just hear that it's busy.
So, from what I know and what I've heard, the midwest has some bright spots and some black sheep. These are very brief impressions, and I only really have personal information on the programs that were already reviewed in detail, so this info is basically supplementary. Hope it's still helpful.
Last edited:
LeFortsBeWithU, that is easily the best name ever. F'n funny.
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2003
- Messages
- 3,864
- Reaction score
- 45
I don't know.....there was a guy named Ludwig's Mangina around here a couple years ago (until he got banned). The first time I saw his name I made a scene in the library from laughing so hard.
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2008
- Messages
- 233
- Reaction score
- 6
Agreed. That is/was the best name. I don't think he has time to post anymore. He matched at Knoxville 2 years ago.
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2003
- Messages
- 3,864
- Reaction score
- 45
Actually maybe he didn't get banned and I'm thinking of someone else.
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2006
- Messages
- 7,173
- Reaction score
- 259
There are 2: LudwigsMangina and LudwigsVagina. Both excellent names.
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2008
- Messages
- 233
- Reaction score
- 6
Both are the same person. He was banned as LudwigsVagina and came back as LudwigsMangina.
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2009
- Messages
- 26
- Reaction score
- 0
Anyone have any info on Emory or Thomas Jefferson U?
Or U of Tennessee at Memphis?
Or U of Tennessee at Memphis?
Last edited:
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2001
- Messages
- 1,057
- Reaction score
- 1
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2009
- Messages
- 68
- Reaction score
- 6
As 4-yr programs go, The Ohio State University is an established and well-rounded residency program. There are 2 residents accepted and 2 interns per year.
The program is run out of the dental school which adjoins the university hospital. This allows the residents to easily move between the OMFS offices (in the dental school) and get to the hospital. This being said, the program has a good balance between clinic and hospital practice inasmuch as there are two teams: hospital team and clinic team. Depending on which 'team' you are on at a given time, you are either hitting the OR or seeing patients in the clinic. A fair number of sedations are done in the clinics. Most surgery is done Tues, Wedn, and Thurs. Mondays are generally consult days.
Due to interaction with the dental school, there is a substantial amount of preprosthetic surgery, particularly with respect to implants/sinus lifts/etc. The dental school has a specific implant clinic which treatment plans hybrid dentures and related procedures with the OMFS clinic. Additionally, the orthodontics department holds bimonthly orthognathic conferences with the OMFS residents to treatment plan surgical ortho patients. Most orthognathic surgeries are done through the chair, Dr. Larsen.
Another draw to the program is that there is a dental anesthesiology section within the department with very strong faculty to teach residents how to manage sedations. Dr. Ganzberg, a dental anesthesiologist, attends weekly surgical case conferences and teaches the residents a great deal about management of different types of patients along with how to handle emergencies and complications encountered in the OR and in the office.
H/N trauma is shared with plastics and ENT and is done by splitting up each month in thirds, each service taking about 10 days each month. The residents get additional experience with extraction of thirds under local at the corrections medical center (prison) once a week.
OMFS service also takes care of the nearby Children's Hosptal Nationwide when the residents are on trauma call.
Downside: I'm not aware of very much TMJ surgery and ENT does all malignant resections. OMFS does handle reconstructions, however.
Some of the faculty has been in transition over the past 3 years but the program seems very stable and quite balanced for anyone seeking a 4 yr program.
The program is run out of the dental school which adjoins the university hospital. This allows the residents to easily move between the OMFS offices (in the dental school) and get to the hospital. This being said, the program has a good balance between clinic and hospital practice inasmuch as there are two teams: hospital team and clinic team. Depending on which 'team' you are on at a given time, you are either hitting the OR or seeing patients in the clinic. A fair number of sedations are done in the clinics. Most surgery is done Tues, Wedn, and Thurs. Mondays are generally consult days.
Due to interaction with the dental school, there is a substantial amount of preprosthetic surgery, particularly with respect to implants/sinus lifts/etc. The dental school has a specific implant clinic which treatment plans hybrid dentures and related procedures with the OMFS clinic. Additionally, the orthodontics department holds bimonthly orthognathic conferences with the OMFS residents to treatment plan surgical ortho patients. Most orthognathic surgeries are done through the chair, Dr. Larsen.
Another draw to the program is that there is a dental anesthesiology section within the department with very strong faculty to teach residents how to manage sedations. Dr. Ganzberg, a dental anesthesiologist, attends weekly surgical case conferences and teaches the residents a great deal about management of different types of patients along with how to handle emergencies and complications encountered in the OR and in the office.
H/N trauma is shared with plastics and ENT and is done by splitting up each month in thirds, each service taking about 10 days each month. The residents get additional experience with extraction of thirds under local at the corrections medical center (prison) once a week.
OMFS service also takes care of the nearby Children's Hosptal Nationwide when the residents are on trauma call.
Downside: I'm not aware of very much TMJ surgery and ENT does all malignant resections. OMFS does handle reconstructions, however.
Some of the faculty has been in transition over the past 3 years but the program seems very stable and quite balanced for anyone seeking a 4 yr program.
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2009
- Messages
- 68
- Reaction score
- 6
Does anybody know anything about Thomas Jefferson University's program?
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2008
- Messages
- 178
- Reaction score
- 3
Don't know anything personally, but this is about the only thread on SDN about the program. It is slanted to a one sided view of the program, so i am no way saying what is written is true or not.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=638859&highlight=thomas+jefferson
I didn't see a post on MGH, so I'll add my experience here.
I spent a month there recently and had a good time. The program is 6 years in length, with two years of medical school (MSIII and MSIV), 16 months of general surgery (credited for 2 years GS) and a total of 32 months on OMFS.
The residents work as hard as they do anywhere else and, in general, seemed to be happy. This was a pleasant surprise for me, as I had heard that the program has historically been malignant.
The bulk of what I saw during my month was trauma, orthognathics and TMJ in the OR and the usual 3rds/implants in the clinic. The residents supposedly get their head and neck cancer experience during general surgery time as a rotating resident on ENT and their cosmetic experience on plastics during GS (they do 3 mos of plastics).
Trauma: I think most of the knife and gun trauma goes to Boston Medical Center, but I saw quite a bit of blunt trauma while I was there. I scrubbed in on two NOEs, a frontal sinus, two LF3s and helped wire some mandibles in the ED. They definitely do quite a bit of trauma and have a fellow (Kaban's fellow) who covers the trauma cases for the residents. I think the system is set up so trauma is 50-50 OMFS/plastics, but it seemed like the OMFS guys did most of the operative trauma, because they take all mandibles. One of the chiefs shared his numbers with me and they do as much mid- and upper-face as any other place I've seen, though it should be noted that they don't do mandibles every day like LSU or Parkland. Again, not as much gunshot wound stuff there either - I think one of the chiefs said they get 2-3 GSWs/year.
Orthognathic: I saw the whole gamut of traditional orthognathic surgery, sleep apnea cases and mandibular distraction. They don't incorporate much cosmetics into orthognathic surgery, though some of the attendings do malar implants and such as combined procedures. The chiefs log about 40-50 orthognathic cases in their final year. They rotate at the Boston Children's hospital for 4 months during chief year where they get their midface distraction, alveolar bone graft, cleft orthognathic and craniofacial experience. Like trauma, probably as good as the best out there.
TMJ: Seems to be the domain of Dr. Keith and Dr. Kaban. Again, full gamut of procedures here, from minimally invasive stuff to full joint reconstructions with CCG and custom TMJ implants.
Clinic: Lots of sedations, thirds and a reasonable number of implants (each chief places about 50-70 in their final year, over 100+ total over the residency). The residents seem to be well trained with dentoalveolar and sedations and there is a resident-run sedation clinic that is always booked with thirds and implants.
Here are some of the weaknesses of the program:
Cosmetics: Didn't see a single cosmetic procedure during 4 weeks there. Not a big deal for most, but I would prefer a place that does a little more cosmetic surgery, even if it is bundled with orthognathic.
Cancer: They do a reasonable amount of benign pathology and have two attendings who do salivary glands (parotids, etc.), but no neck dissections. Again, if that is your interest, look elsewhere.
Dental School: The residents seemed very happy with their dentoalveolar and implant experience, despite the fact that they really have nothing to do with the dental school and rarely do anything over there. I'm +/- about whether this makes a difference, but their thirds/IV seds/implant numbers seem very solid, so probably not.
Medical School: EXPENSIVE! ~50k/year - though you only have to do two years. They also seem to have some flexibility in terms of when they have o take Step 1 - they don't have to take it during intern year.
Other notes:
Faculty: Dr. Kaban was surprisingly more pleasant that I thought - doesn't seem to be too harsh on the residents, though the chiefs told me he has mellowed out a lot over recent years. I thought Dr. Dodson, Dr. Keith and this young attending (I think Dr. Fahey?) were all very good and practiced the full scope of OMFS. Dr. August seems to do a lot of implants and thirds and the residents seem to get a good experience with her for outpatient stuff. I didn't interact much with Dr. Troulis, but she doesn't seem to operate much and doesn't see that many patients in the clinic - I think she does mostly research stuff nowadays.
Hey,
Just thought I would try to provide more insight about this residency and my time there.
I would not recommend it after my externship there. I can add the following and I hope it helps!
-Not borderline too much trauma, its full of trauma to the point of almost all trauma, trauma is shared with another program and during that time its crazy, the residents are all stressed and back stabbing each other.
-Dr *REDACTED* is not around that much, he is there one morning a week from what I seen and from what one of the residents said he just turns up and like the other guy said walks from room to room and then disappears back to his office.
-The residents have to be the worst "team" I came across on all my externships, they back stab a lot and it seems there is a lot of tension among them, I dont know if its because there is too many hours or if its because of a bad mix of people or both, seems the interns got dumped on a lot and I kinda felt bad for one guy based on his race!
-They have a clinic two days a week where all they do is just extract teeth, it seemed obvious to me that the residents say they learn nothing from it and just run room to room in a sort of race to see who pulls the most!
-The patient population are gross
-Because there is no dental program at LSU Shreveport, anything within a 6 hour drive from Shreveport that is dental related (and this can be pulpitis, ortho, perio, prostho, pedo etc) ends up coming to Shreveport, and they seemed to have to deal with it!
-No implant experience
-Last year I heard the two residency positions were gone before the interviews even took place, one spot went to a residents friend and another went to *REDACTED* friend.
-The hospital sucks!
-The city sucks! Seriously the only place they told us to go was a mexican bar, I think there was only 1 proper bar there! The residents definitely seemed unhappy
-They do have the odd "big case" but it seems like they do the initial rip apart but dont necessarily finish it off good
-Two mornings a week only of sedation clinic where the residents only have 1 case each
-The chief resident at one program said he knows of a resident there, he said she was a total..... lets just move on!
-Cancer cases appear to be a big pain in the ass for the residents who are just stuck with them as the onc fellow leaves the after care to them!
-Hope this helps, I wouldnt have it anywhere near my top choice but its a choice at least if you dont get anywhere else. I am sure you wont be the worst surgeon but unless you want to stay in academics or cant get anywhere else I just dont see the point in even interviewing there (interviewing is costly!!!!)
-No cosmetics
-On the plus side
-The residents said the city was cheap to live in
-Hot weather
-Cat fish (fresh)
Summary:
Trauma Trauma Trauma!!! Oncology, and absolutely tons of just regular extractions! (its a walk in free clinic)
Bad resident atmosphere
Only ONE full time faculty!!!!!!!!! (Major no no from my perspective!)
Just thought I would try to provide more insight about this residency and my time there.
I would not recommend it after my externship there. I can add the following and I hope it helps!
-Not borderline too much trauma, its full of trauma to the point of almost all trauma, trauma is shared with another program and during that time its crazy, the residents are all stressed and back stabbing each other.
-Dr *REDACTED* is not around that much, he is there one morning a week from what I seen and from what one of the residents said he just turns up and like the other guy said walks from room to room and then disappears back to his office.
-The residents have to be the worst "team" I came across on all my externships, they back stab a lot and it seems there is a lot of tension among them, I dont know if its because there is too many hours or if its because of a bad mix of people or both, seems the interns got dumped on a lot and I kinda felt bad for one guy based on his race!
-They have a clinic two days a week where all they do is just extract teeth, it seemed obvious to me that the residents say they learn nothing from it and just run room to room in a sort of race to see who pulls the most!
-The patient population are gross
-Because there is no dental program at LSU Shreveport, anything within a 6 hour drive from Shreveport that is dental related (and this can be pulpitis, ortho, perio, prostho, pedo etc) ends up coming to Shreveport, and they seemed to have to deal with it!
-No implant experience
-Last year I heard the two residency positions were gone before the interviews even took place, one spot went to a residents friend and another went to *REDACTED* friend.
-The hospital sucks!
-The city sucks! Seriously the only place they told us to go was a mexican bar, I think there was only 1 proper bar there! The residents definitely seemed unhappy
-They do have the odd "big case" but it seems like they do the initial rip apart but dont necessarily finish it off good
-Two mornings a week only of sedation clinic where the residents only have 1 case each
-The chief resident at one program said he knows of a resident there, he said she was a total..... lets just move on!
-Cancer cases appear to be a big pain in the ass for the residents who are just stuck with them as the onc fellow leaves the after care to them!
-Hope this helps, I wouldnt have it anywhere near my top choice but its a choice at least if you dont get anywhere else. I am sure you wont be the worst surgeon but unless you want to stay in academics or cant get anywhere else I just dont see the point in even interviewing there (interviewing is costly!!!!)
-No cosmetics
-On the plus side
-The residents said the city was cheap to live in
-Hot weather
-Cat fish (fresh
) Summary:
Trauma Trauma Trauma!!! Oncology, and absolutely tons of just regular extractions! (its a walk in free clinic)
Bad resident atmosphere
Only ONE full time faculty!!!!!!!!! (Major no no from my perspective!)
Last edited by a moderator:
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2009
- Messages
- 2
- Reaction score
- 0
To begin let me introduce myself. I am a 1st year down in good old Shreveport. So if you have any questions about the program, or do not like what I am about to say, please feel free to PM me and we can talk about. I also want to add that I in no way feel the need to defend Dr.Ghali, Dr.Kim , or Dr. Palmieri (yes we have 3 full time attendings plus part time staff). Their individual records speak for themselves. But I will defend the reputation of my program from sad, disgruntled externs who would have just been better off keeping their opinions to themselves. But since you decided to bring this into a pubic forum and speak like you have any idea what is going on, you left yourself wide open for what is about to happen. Obviously from the huge numbers of program interviews you have been posting on this forum, things must be going great for you, so you don't need us anyway. So lets get started breaking down every false remark you made to give these people a real idea of how we do things in Shreveport:
-You feel bad for the intern based on "race"? The "intern" you speak has no need to hide behind the "race" card. He is a hard working SOB who is a good friend and a respected colleague of mine. He would be insulted if he knew you said such things. You should be ashamed of your self.
-Borderline too much trauma? We alternate facial trauma every other month with ENT. Now while we do see our fair share, I have never heard anybody in the program complain of too much surgical exposure to trauma. I think it a critical part of any OMFS program to provide a well rounded trauma experience. When it gets too much for me I will let you know. Apparently we roll a little harder here in the dirty south than at UMKC
-Dr.Ghali only operates at LSU on Wed mornings, usually a big neck whack and/or cranial vault reshaping. That is why you only saw him once. The other days he is either at the Feist or at his private clinic at Schumpert doing craniofacial/cancer/cosmetics/impant/what ever else he feels like. Externs do not get to go to his clinic, hence you did not see him. The man is also active in more committees than almost anyone else in the hospital. Another detail that obviously escaped you is that Ghali is not in the OR babying our upper levels. He is not neglecting them, but he expects them to operate without direct supervision all the the time because he trains surgeons who can act independently and not just stick holding monkeys who can do what their told.
-Back stabbing residents? I get along great with the entire team of residents. I hang out with my co residents all the time. Are you sure that maybe, I know this might sound crazy, but maybe they just didn't like you? Obviously from my posting you didn't win me over with your charming personality. I know you felt during your externship you had "everything figured out", but you definitely missed out on the big picture when it came to us residents.
-Our 2 "teeth only" days as interns is our point and pull dentoalveolar clinic. Most programs have these days and whatever program you get into, god help them, will probably require you to do this. We are Oral Surgeons, we do take out teeth, that is kinda a big part of what we do. You also forgot to mention that we do run sedations on Mon and Fri mornings for 3rds and other things like arthocentesis. Let me add that as interns we get to run the sedations. Dr. Palmieri gives us the latitude to push what drugs we see fit and do the whole procedure ourselves. It truly is a great 1st year experience. We also have a day where we schedule bigger procedure like FMXs, big tori, biopsies and other time requiring procedures.
-Our patient population is gross? I am sorry things are not as up scale in Louisiana as they are in UMKC. I sorry that you feel working on a predominately low socioeconomic status African American (which is our average clinic patient) is beneath you.
-ortho?perio?proths? What the #$#@ are you talking about. I really don't even know what to say. Stupid is the only thing that comes to mind.
-Implant experience? Its funny that you say that. We just started offering implants at our LSU clinic with Dr.Palmieri and things are looking great. That being said we get most of our implant experience in Dr.Ghai/Dr.Kim private clinic, which is something you as a extern were not allowed to go to. Sure there are other places in the country that place more implants than we do, good for them. I personally don't lose any sleep over it.
-Residency positions gone before the interview? I had never even externed at Shreveport before I went there on the interview. I didn't back door my way. If you doubt my, or that of my co-resident's ,qualifications I would be happy to compare.
-The hospital sucks? It's dirty, its a REAL hospital, grow up
-How do we "rip it off and not finish it good" . I am sorry. The more I read your post I am convinced you are truly a idiot. You think we just let mangled patients roam the streets of Shreveport? I will personally let Dr. Ghali/ Dr.Kim know what you think of their work.
-Ok Shreveport is not for you. My wife and I love it here. Housing is affordable are some great areas of town. If you looking for the big city life you need to go somewhere else, if you are looking for a awesome training experience in a town where you can get around and still have things to do, then Shreveport could work for you.
-Pts sometimes don't show up for procedures, big shocker. You were here 2 weeks, get over it.
-"My friend told her friend who told my....." are we still in high school? So the chief at "your" program doesn't like one of my co-residents. Big deal. Who cares. That is hardly a legitimate critique.
-Part of our job as residents is to manage the cancer patients. Flap checks do get a little old, but they are a small part of what we do and I have learned more about medicine from treating these patients than from any other. I think is a worth while experience to get to interact with these patients.
-Again Dr.Ghali practices facial cosmetics galore at his PRIVATE clinic. Just come and look at our OR log.
After all this a quote comes to mind: " It is better to be quiet and thought a fool than to open one's mouth and confirm it". Sadly this quote applies to you. I do not wish to start a endless online banter of " why you do not like Shreveport" with you. Just from now on do not speak of things with authority that you do not know anything about. Also another quote comes to mind, "You do not spit on Superman's cape, you do not get into a knife fight with Zoro, and you do not %^%% with RedRaiderOMS!"
-You feel bad for the intern based on "race"? The "intern" you speak has no need to hide behind the "race" card. He is a hard working SOB who is a good friend and a respected colleague of mine. He would be insulted if he knew you said such things. You should be ashamed of your self.
-Borderline too much trauma? We alternate facial trauma every other month with ENT. Now while we do see our fair share, I have never heard anybody in the program complain of too much surgical exposure to trauma. I think it a critical part of any OMFS program to provide a well rounded trauma experience. When it gets too much for me I will let you know. Apparently we roll a little harder here in the dirty south than at UMKC
-Dr.Ghali only operates at LSU on Wed mornings, usually a big neck whack and/or cranial vault reshaping. That is why you only saw him once. The other days he is either at the Feist or at his private clinic at Schumpert doing craniofacial/cancer/cosmetics/impant/what ever else he feels like. Externs do not get to go to his clinic, hence you did not see him. The man is also active in more committees than almost anyone else in the hospital. Another detail that obviously escaped you is that Ghali is not in the OR babying our upper levels. He is not neglecting them, but he expects them to operate without direct supervision all the the time because he trains surgeons who can act independently and not just stick holding monkeys who can do what their told.
-Back stabbing residents? I get along great with the entire team of residents. I hang out with my co residents all the time. Are you sure that maybe, I know this might sound crazy, but maybe they just didn't like you? Obviously from my posting you didn't win me over with your charming personality. I know you felt during your externship you had "everything figured out", but you definitely missed out on the big picture when it came to us residents.
-Our 2 "teeth only" days as interns is our point and pull dentoalveolar clinic. Most programs have these days and whatever program you get into, god help them, will probably require you to do this. We are Oral Surgeons, we do take out teeth, that is kinda a big part of what we do. You also forgot to mention that we do run sedations on Mon and Fri mornings for 3rds and other things like arthocentesis. Let me add that as interns we get to run the sedations. Dr. Palmieri gives us the latitude to push what drugs we see fit and do the whole procedure ourselves. It truly is a great 1st year experience. We also have a day where we schedule bigger procedure like FMXs, big tori, biopsies and other time requiring procedures.
-Our patient population is gross? I am sorry things are not as up scale in Louisiana as they are in UMKC. I sorry that you feel working on a predominately low socioeconomic status African American (which is our average clinic patient) is beneath you.
-ortho?perio?proths? What the #$#@ are you talking about. I really don't even know what to say. Stupid is the only thing that comes to mind.
-Implant experience? Its funny that you say that. We just started offering implants at our LSU clinic with Dr.Palmieri and things are looking great. That being said we get most of our implant experience in Dr.Ghai/Dr.Kim private clinic, which is something you as a extern were not allowed to go to. Sure there are other places in the country that place more implants than we do, good for them. I personally don't lose any sleep over it.
-Residency positions gone before the interview? I had never even externed at Shreveport before I went there on the interview. I didn't back door my way. If you doubt my, or that of my co-resident's ,qualifications I would be happy to compare.
-The hospital sucks? It's dirty, its a REAL hospital, grow up
-How do we "rip it off and not finish it good" . I am sorry. The more I read your post I am convinced you are truly a idiot. You think we just let mangled patients roam the streets of Shreveport? I will personally let Dr. Ghali/ Dr.Kim know what you think of their work.
-Ok Shreveport is not for you. My wife and I love it here. Housing is affordable are some great areas of town. If you looking for the big city life you need to go somewhere else, if you are looking for a awesome training experience in a town where you can get around and still have things to do, then Shreveport could work for you.
-Pts sometimes don't show up for procedures, big shocker. You were here 2 weeks, get over it.
-"My friend told her friend who told my....." are we still in high school? So the chief at "your" program doesn't like one of my co-residents. Big deal. Who cares. That is hardly a legitimate critique.
-Part of our job as residents is to manage the cancer patients. Flap checks do get a little old, but they are a small part of what we do and I have learned more about medicine from treating these patients than from any other. I think is a worth while experience to get to interact with these patients.
-Again Dr.Ghali practices facial cosmetics galore at his PRIVATE clinic. Just come and look at our OR log.
After all this a quote comes to mind: " It is better to be quiet and thought a fool than to open one's mouth and confirm it". Sadly this quote applies to you. I do not wish to start a endless online banter of " why you do not like Shreveport" with you. Just from now on do not speak of things with authority that you do not know anything about. Also another quote comes to mind, "You do not spit on Superman's cape, you do not get into a knife fight with Zoro, and you do not %^%% with RedRaiderOMS!"
Last edited:
Thats MY experience, MY opinion so I am relaying it to others.
Firstly when do YOU practice at their private office?
If they are full time faculty how come they are only there once a week? There is only one full time faculty member from what I saw.
Another thing I thought I should mention is the on-call situation, there is no post call, so on-call typically lasts from 6am until 6am the following morning and then you have to go over to the "tooth pulling" clinic to see how many teeth you can grab lol, so your day ends around 6pm, thats 36 hours straight! And you can do this up to 3 or 4 times a week.
Also, you are on call until you are in 5th year because the 4th years in medical school are like interns all over again in general surgery!
All I am commenting on is if you want tons and tons and TONS of the same trauma every day to the point of where it becomes boring, and take out teeth in an overbooked clinic and live in the middle of nowhere then this is definitely the program for you!
I did not say the patient population was gross for the reason you believe, they are what i said, gross, and do nothing but shout, scream, and cuss at you guys all the time!
I may have only been there for a couple of weeks but you have only been there a couple of months and still in the honeymoon period! Enjoy it.
People dont need to take my experience from it but they can now enjoy an open discussion about it which tells the actual situation!
Ps You were not working in their private office when I was there..... so what are you talking about? its only for the chief residents or 5th year! So what does it matter if they are doing cosmetic procedures GALORE over there lol
"You do not spit on Superman's cape, you do not get into a knife fight with Zoro, and you do not %^%% with RedRaiderOMS!"
Sounds like your already losing it there! lol
Look good luck with your intern year, didnt mean to rain down on you but this is a discussion forum and thats what its all about! Sometimes its not always good!
Firstly when do YOU practice at their private office?
If they are full time faculty how come they are only there once a week? There is only one full time faculty member from what I saw.
Another thing I thought I should mention is the on-call situation, there is no post call, so on-call typically lasts from 6am until 6am the following morning and then you have to go over to the "tooth pulling" clinic to see how many teeth you can grab lol, so your day ends around 6pm, thats 36 hours straight! And you can do this up to 3 or 4 times a week.
Also, you are on call until you are in 5th year
because the 4th years in medical school are like interns all over again in general surgery!All I am commenting on is if you want tons and tons and TONS of the same trauma every day to the point of where it becomes boring, and take out teeth in an overbooked clinic and live in the middle of nowhere then this is definitely the program for you!
I did not say the patient population was gross for the reason you believe, they are what i said, gross, and do nothing but shout, scream, and cuss at you guys all the time!
I may have only been there for a couple of weeks but you have only been there a couple of months and still in the honeymoon period! Enjoy it.
People dont need to take my experience from it but they can now enjoy an open discussion about it which tells the actual situation!
Ps You were not working in their private office when I was there..... so what are you talking about? its only for the chief residents or 5th year! So what does it matter if they are doing cosmetic procedures GALORE over there lol
"You do not spit on Superman's cape, you do not get into a knife fight with Zoro, and you do not %^%% with RedRaiderOMS!"
Sounds like your already losing it there! lol
Look good luck with your intern year, didnt mean to rain down on you but this is a discussion forum and thats what its all about! Sometimes its not always good!
Last edited:
