OMFS Programs doing cancer/free flaps

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NTATD

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Looking through old threads and program websites it is kind of difficult to get a very comprehensive list of programs together. It's also hard to get an idea about which programs really give you a good experience and let you work on the cases, vs what programs say they do cancer but no free flaps, or do cancer but only a few cases a year.

So does anyone have a list of OMS programs with a good cancer focus, and where would one get the best experience?
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I guess to start off.....

I know OHSU, Mayo, Tenn-Knoxville, Miami, , LSU-shrev, Maryland, Carle, UW, Michigan, UCONN, UAB, UCSF, Case

Im looking for input onto which programs residents get to cut the most
 
NTATD said:
I guess to start off.....

I know OHSU, Mayo, Tenn-Knoxville, Miami, , LSU-shrev, Maryland, Carle, UW, Michigan, UCONN, UAB, UCSF, Case

Im looking for input onto which programs residents get to cut the most
Click to expand...

OK, i'll add what I know, plese correct where wrong. Flaps means free flaps. Everyone will do local/regional flaps. Please add names if you know them

OHSU (Dierks, Potter, Bell, Bui, Chang in July)- ablative and flaps
Mayo (Arce)(- Ablative only as far as I know
Tenn (Carlson)- Ablative only
Miami (Marx et al)- Ablative, now doing flaps but soft tissue only
LSU Shreve (Ghali, Kim, Yeoh)- Ablative and flaps
LSU NO -(Kim, Zaid) Ablative and flaps
Maryland (Ord et al)- Ablative and flaps
Carle (Bailey?)- ?
UW (?)- Ablative only?
Michigan (Helman, Ward, Edwards)- Ablative and flaps
UCONN (see UW)- ?
UAB (see UCONN)- Ablative and flaps
UCSF - nothing anymore i believe
Case (Bauer)- Ablative only
Parkland (Williams at JPS) - Ablative and flaps
UT Houston (Shum)- Ablative and flaps
Buffalo (Park)- Ablative and flaps
Baylor (Kang)- Ablative and flaps
Kentucky (Curtis in July)- Ablative and flaps starting in July
Fresno (Woo?)- Ablative and flaps i believe
BU (Salama)- Ablative and flaps i believe
Jacksonville (Fernandez) - Ablative and flaps
 
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Let's see here.. You've got some pretty good info going on.



OHSU (Dierks, Potter, Bell, Bui, Chang in July)- ablative and flaps
Minnesota ( deepak) ablative only
Mayo (Arce)(- Ablative only-
Tenn (Carlson)- Ablative only -
Miami (Marx et al)- Ablative, now doing flaps but soft tissue only, + Bone marrow aspirate
LSU Shreve (Ghali, Kim, Yeoh)- Ablative and flaps
LSU NO -(Kim, Zaid) Ablative and flaps
Maryland (Ord, Lubek, Dyalram)- Ablative and flaps
Carle (Bailey)- Ablative .. not sure if he does flaps but he did fellowship in maryland..but not sure if they were doing flaps yet.
UW (Dillon)- Ablative only
Michigan (Helman, Ward, Edwards)- Ablative and flaps
UCONN (see UW)- ??? didn't know about this one.
UAB (Holmes / Morlandt )- Ablative and flaps
UCSF - Kolykithias from UIC may head down there to do Ablative only
Case (Bauer)- Ablative only
Parkland (Williams at JPS) - Ablative and flaps
UT Houston (Shum)- Ablative and flaps
Buffalo (Park)- Ablative and flaps
Baylor (Kang)- Ablative and flaps
Kentucky (Curtis in July)- Ablative and flaps starting in July
Fresno (Woo)- Ablative and flaps
BU (Salama)- Ablative and flaps
Jacksonville (Fernandez) - Ablative and flaps
Indiana (Montes) - Ablative and flaps
NYU ( Schmidt) - ablative
Delaware ( Shihabi - prob in july.) - ablative and flaps
Mississippi (Qaisi) ablative and flaps
McGill canada ( El hakim ) ablative and flaps
Detroit -StJohn (Ramirez ) Ablative and flaps
 
OHSU (Dierks, Potter, Bell, Bui, Chang in July)- ablative and flaps
Minnesota ( deepak) ablative only
Mayo (Arce)(- Ablative only- Could be wrong but I thought ENT harvests and does micro, but Arce does reconstruction with it
Tenn (Carlson)- Ablative only -
Miami (Marx et al)- Ablative, now doing flaps but soft tissue only, + Bone marrow aspirate
LSU Shreve (Ghali, Kim, Yeoh)- Ablative and flaps
LSU NO -(Kim, Zaid) Ablative and flaps
Maryland (Ord, Lubek, Dyalram)- Ablative and flaps
Carle (Bailey)- Ablative .. not sure if he does flaps but he did fellowship in maryland..but not sure if they were doing flaps yet.
UW (Dillon)- Ablative only
Michigan (Helman, Ward, Edwards)- Ablative and flaps
UCONN (see UW)- ??? didn't know about this one.
UAB (Morlandt only) - Ablative and flaps [Holmes kind of does his own thing now]
UCSF - Kolykithias from UIC may head down there to do Ablative only
Case (Bauer)- Ablative only
Parkland (Williams at JPS) - Ablative and flaps
UT Houston (Shum)- Ablative and flaps
Buffalo (Park)- Ablative and flaps
Baylor (Kang)- Ablative and flaps
Kentucky (Curtis in July)- Ablative and flaps starting in July
Fresno (Woo)- Ablative and flaps
BU (Salama)- Ablative and flaps
Jacksonville (Fernandez) - Ablative and flaps
Indiana (Montes) - Ablative and flaps
NYU ( Schmidt) - ablative
Delaware ( Shihabi - prob in july.) - ablative and flaps
Mississippi (Qaisi) ablative and flaps
McGill canada ( El hakim ) ablative and flaps
Detroit -StJohn (Ramirez ) Ablative and flaps
 
Great compilation so far. This list really serves two crowds - the pre OMFSs that think they are interested in CA and the ones that want to stay as far away as possible from those programs. :laugh:
 
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OHSU (Dierks, Potter, Bell, Bui, Chang in July)- ablative and flaps
Minnesota ( deepak) ablative only
Mayo (Arce)(- Ablative only- Could be wrong but I thought ENT harvests and does micro, but Arce does reconstruction with it
Tenn (Carlson)- Ablative only -
Miami (Marx et al)- Ablative, now doing flaps but soft tissue only, + Bone marrow aspirate
LSU Shreve (Ghali, Kim, Yeoh)- Ablative and flaps
LSU NO -(Kim, Zaid) Ablative and flaps
Maryland (Ord, Lubek, Dyalram)- Ablative and flaps
Carle (Bailey)- ablative and free flaps (ent harvests, but not sure if omfs ever harvests)
UW (Dillon)- Ablative only
Michigan (Helman, Ward, Edwards)- Ablative and flaps
UCONN (see UW)- ??? didn't know about this one.
UAB (Morlandt only) - Ablative and flaps [Holmes kind of does his own thing now]
UCSF - Kolykithias from UIC may head down there to do Ablative only
Case (Bauer)- Ablative only
Parkland (Williams at JPS) - Ablative and flaps
UT Houston (Shum)- Ablative and flaps
Buffalo (Park)- Ablative and flaps
Baylor (Kang)- Ablative and flaps
Kentucky (Curtis in July)- Ablative and flaps starting in July
Fresno (Woo)- Ablative and flaps
BU (Salama)- Ablative and flaps
Jacksonville (Fernandez) - Ablative and flaps
Indiana (Montes) - Ablative and flaps
NYU ( Schmidt) - ablative
Delaware ( Shihabi - prob in july.) - ablative and flaps
Mississippi (Qaisi) ablative and flaps
McGill canada ( El hakim ) ablative and flaps
Detroit -StJohn (Ramirez ) Ablative and flaps
Nova (McClure) ablative and flaps (not sure who harvests)
[/QUOTE]
 
BIMC- Buchbinder ablative and flaps
 
Been in or with him, harvesting and reconstructing
 
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They are all under ent you are correct.

With dr urken yes that was his role some of the times, but he mostly operated with dr Jacobson for most of the cases they did , as well as they had the fellow for microvasc doing some. I've been with him and he used the scope extensively. It all depends on whose case it is to start with
 
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Revision 10.2

OHSU (Dierks, Potter, Bell, Bui, Chang in July)- ablative and flaps
Minnesota ( deepak) ablative only
Mayo (Arce)(- Ablative only-
Tenn (Carlson)- Ablative only -
Miami (Marx et al)- Ablative, now doing flaps but soft tissue only, + Bone marrow aspirate
LSU Shreve (Ghali, Kim, Yeoh)- Ablative and flaps
LSU NO -(Kim, Zaid) Ablative and flaps
Maryland (Ord, Lubek, Dyalram)- Ablative and flaps
Carle (Bailey)- ablative and free flaps (ent harvests, but not sure if omfs ever harvests)
UW (Dillon)- Ablative only
Michigan (Helman, Ward, Edwards)- Ablative and flaps
UCONN (see UW)- ??? didn't know about this one.
UAB (Morlandt only) - Ablative and flaps [Holmes kind of does his own thing now]
UCSF - Kolykithias from UIC may head down there to do Ablative only
Case (Bauer)- Ablative only
Parkland (Williams at JPS) - Ablative and flaps
UT Houston (Shum)- Ablative and flaps
Buffalo (Park)- Ablative and flaps
Baylor (Kang)- Ablative and flaps
Kentucky (Curtis in July)- Ablative and flaps starting in July
Fresno (Woo)- Ablative and flaps
BU (Salama)- Ablative and flaps
Jacksonville (Fernandez) - Ablative and flaps
Indiana (Montes) - Ablative and flaps
NYU ( Schmidt) - ablative
Delaware ( Shihabi - prob in july.) - ablative and flaps
Mississippi (Qaisi) ablative and flaps
McGill canada ( El hakim ) ablative and flaps
Detroit -StJohn (Ramirez ) Ablative and flaps
Nova (McClure) ablative and flaps

Buchbinder alone does not do this stuff.
 
OHSU (Dierks, Bui, Chang in July)- ablative and flaps
Minnesota (Kademani) ablative only
Mayo (Arce)- Ablative only-
Tenn (Carlson)- Ablative only -
Miami (Marx et al)- Ablative, now doing flaps but soft tissue only, + Bone marrow aspirate
LSU Shreve (Ghali, David Kim, Yeoh)- Ablative and flaps
LSU NO -(Kim, Zaid) Ablative and flaps
Maryland (Ord, Lubek, Dyalram)- Ablative and flaps
Carle (Bailey)- ablative and free flaps (ent harvests, but not sure if omfs ever harvests)
UW (Dillon)- Ablative only - Futran or Plastics does flaps
Michigan (Helman, Ward, Edwards, Skouteris)- Ablative and Flaps
UCONN (see UW)- ??? didn't know about this one.
UAB (Morlandt only) - Ablative and flaps [Holmes kind of does his own thing now]
UCSF - Kolykithias from UIC may head down there to do Ablative only
Case (Bauer)- Ablative only
Parkland (Williams at JPS) - Ablative and flaps
UT Houston (Shum)- Ablative and flaps
Buffalo (Park)- Ablative and flaps
Baylor (Kang)- Ablative and flaps
Kentucky (Curtis in July)- Ablative and flaps starting in July
Fresno (Woo)- Ablative and flaps
BU (Salama)- Ablative and flaps
Jacksonville (Fernandez, Pirgousis, Goldman) - Ablative and flaps
Indiana (Montes) - Ablative and flaps
NYU ( Schmidt, Hirsch) - ablative
Delaware ( Shihabi - prob in july.) - ablative and flaps
Mississippi (Qaisi) ablative and flaps
McGill canada ( El hakim, Makhoul ) ablative and flaps
Detroit -StJohn (Ramirez ) Ablative and flaps
Nova (McClure) ablative and flaps
 
Removed INDIANA from the list as Montes, recently and unfortunately, decided to seek other employment . . .

OHSU (Dierks, Bui, Chang in July)- ablative and flaps
Minnesota (Kademani) ablative only
Mayo (Arce)- Ablative only-
Tenn (Carlson)- Ablative only -
Miami (Marx et al)- Ablative, now doing flaps but soft tissue only, + Bone marrow aspirate
LSU Shreve (Ghali, David Kim, Yeoh)- Ablative and flaps
LSU NO -(Kim, Zaid) Ablative and flaps
Maryland (Ord, Lubek, Dyalram)- Ablative and flaps
Carle (Bailey)- ablative and free flaps (ent harvests, but not sure if omfs ever harvests)
UW (Dillon)- Ablative only - Futran or Plastics does flaps
Michigan (Helman, Ward, Edwards, Skouteris)- Ablative and Flaps
UCONN (see UW)- ??? didn't know about this one.
UAB (Morlandt only) - Ablative and flaps [Holmes kind of does his own thing now]
UCSF - Kolykithias from UIC may head down there to do Ablative only
Case (Bauer)- Ablative only
Parkland (Williams at JPS) - Ablative and flaps
UT Houston (Shum)- Ablative and flaps
Buffalo (Park)- Ablative and flaps
Baylor (Kang)- Ablative and flaps
Kentucky (Curtis in July)- Ablative and flaps starting in July
Fresno (Woo)- Ablative and flaps
BU (Salama)- Ablative and flaps
Jacksonville (Fernandez, Pirgousis, Goldman) - Ablative and flaps
NYU ( Schmidt, Hirsch) - ablative
Delaware ( Shihabi - prob in july.) - ablative and flaps
Mississippi (Qaisi) ablative and flaps
McGill canada ( El hakim, Makhoul ) ablative and flaps
Detroit -StJohn (Ramirez ) Ablative and flaps
Nova (McClure) ablative and flaps
 
jiggapigga2 said:
Revision 10.2
Buchbinder alone does not do this stuff.
Click to expand...

What do you mean Buchbinder alone doesn't do this stuff?
He does the ablative resection, exactly like many other attendings on that list who only do the ablative portion. Of course none of these teams do it alone - they have plastics/ent doing the reconstruction in the same OR....
 
Contach said:
What do you mean Buchbinder alone doesn't do this stuff?
He does the ablative resection, exactly like many other attendings on that list who only do the ablative portion. Of course none of these teams do it alone - they have plastics/ent doing the reconstruction in the same OR....
Click to expand...

As far as i understand, Buchbinder may remove benign tumors like any other OMS should, but he does not manage malignant disease. If he is going to do any cancer, he usually works with ENT. OMS at BI probably bends the plate, does osteotomies, put in implants, etc. He does not manage the neck - thus how can he be considered as an oncologic trained person like the others on the list. In regards to the reconstructions - the above mentioned "Ablative/flaps" means those people do oncologic surgery AND can do the microvascular reconstruction. Those OMS teams are not dependent on plastics/ent do reconstruct.
 
Hirsch left NYU may goto columbia
MrRongeurs said:
Removed INDIANA from the list as Montes, recently and unfortunately, decided to seek other employment . . .

OHSU (Dierks, Bui, Chang in July)- ablative and flaps
Minnesota (Kademani) ablative only
Mayo (Arce)- Ablative only-
Tenn (Carlson)- Ablative only -
Miami (Marx et al)- Ablative, now doing flaps but soft tissue only, + Bone marrow aspirate
LSU Shreve (Ghali, David Kim, Yeoh)- Ablative and flaps
LSU NO -(Kim, Zaid) Ablative and flaps
Maryland (Ord, Lubek, Dyalram)- Ablative and flaps
Carle (Bailey)- ablative and free flaps (ent harvests, but not sure if omfs ever harvests)
UW (Dillon)- Ablative only - Futran or Plastics does flaps
Michigan (Helman, Ward, Edwards, Skouteris)- Ablative and Flaps
UCONN (see UW)- ??? didn't know about this one.
UAB (Morlandt only) - Ablative and flaps [Holmes kind of does his own thing now]
UCSF - Kolykithias from UIC may head down there to do Ablative only
Case (Bauer)- Ablative only
Parkland (Williams at JPS) - Ablative and flaps
UT Houston (Shum)- Ablative and flaps
Buffalo (Park)- Ablative and flaps
Baylor (Kang)- Ablative and flaps
Kentucky (Curtis in July)- Ablative and flaps starting in July
Fresno (Woo)- Ablative and flaps
BU (Salama)- Ablative and flaps
Jacksonville (Fernandez, Pirgousis, Goldman) - Ablative and flaps
NYU ( Schmidt, ) - ablative
Delaware ( Shihabi - prob in july.) - ablative and flaps
Mississippi (Qaisi) ablative and flaps
McGill canada ( El hakim, Makhoul ) ablative and flaps
Detroit -StJohn (Ramirez ) Ablative and flaps
Nova (McClure) ablative and flaps
Click to expand...
 
That's where your wrong cause he does manage malignant disease, he does the microvasculator reconstruction. I'm not getting into a pissing match on a forum with someone that has never been to an or w him.
 
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I think a few things are worth adding to your list. 1) They are doing bone containing flaps at Miami. 2) Its probably worth mentioning who actually has a fellowship program available ( Tennessee, Michigan, Miami, Maryland, Florida, LSU-Shreve, John Peter Smith (Fayette Williams), Oregon).


Also, for all those interested in pursuing these programs you need to go to www.morsmatch.com as this is now the way to match to a program.
 
MrRongeurs said:
Removed INDIANA from the list as Montes, recently and unfortunately, decided to seek other employment . . .

OHSU (Dierks, Bui, Chang in July)- ablative and flaps
Minnesota (Kademani) ablative only
Mayo (Arce)- Ablative only-
Tenn (Carlson)- Ablative only -
Miami (Marx et al)- Ablative, now doing flaps but soft tissue only, + Bone marrow aspirate
LSU Shreve (Ghali, David Kim, Yeoh)- Ablative and flaps
LSU NO -(Kim, Zaid) Ablative and flaps
Maryland (Ord, Lubek, Dyalram)- Ablative and flaps
Carle (Bailey)- ablative and free flaps (ent harvests, but not sure if omfs ever harvests)
UW (Dillon)- Ablative only - Futran or Plastics does flaps
Michigan (Helman, Ward, Edwards, Skouteris)- Ablative and Flaps
UCONN (see UW)- ??? didn't know about this one.
UAB (Morlandt only) - Ablative and flaps [Holmes kind of does his own thing now]
UCSF - Kolykithias from UIC may head down there to do Ablative only
Case (Bauer)- Ablative only
Parkland (Williams at JPS) - Ablative and flaps
UT Houston (Shum and Melville)- Ablative and flaps
Buffalo (Park)- Ablative and flaps
Baylor (Kang)- Ablative and flaps
Kentucky (Curtis in July)- Ablative and flaps starting in July
Fresno (Woo)- Ablative and flaps
BU (Salama)- Ablative and flaps
Jacksonville (Fernandez, Pirgousis, Goldman) - Ablative and flaps
NYU ( Schmidt, Hirsch) - ablative
Delaware ( Shihabi - prob in july.) - ablative and flaps
Mississippi (Qaisi) ablative and flaps
McGill canada ( El hakim, Makhoul ) ablative and flaps
Detroit -StJohn (Ramirez ) Ablative and flaps
Nova (McClure) ablative and flaps
Click to expand...
 
I updated OHSU. New additions of Cheng and Petrisor. Potter does only a few cases of ablative a year, but I left him on the list.

OHSU (Dierks, Bell, Potter) - ablative (Bui, Cheng, Petrisor)- ablative and flaps
Minnesota (Kademani) ablative only
Mayo (Arce)- Ablative only-
Tenn (Carlson)- Ablative only -
Miami (Marx et al)- Ablative, now doing flaps but soft tissue only, + Bone marrow aspirate
LSU Shreve (Ghali, David Kim, Yeoh)- Ablative and flaps
LSU NO -(Kim, Zaid) Ablative and flaps
Maryland (Ord, Lubek, Dyalram)- Ablative and flaps
Carle (Bailey)- ablative and free flaps (ent harvests, but not sure if omfs ever harvests)
UW (Dillon)- Ablative only - Futran or Plastics does flaps
Michigan (Helman, Ward, Edwards, Skouteris)- Ablative and Flaps
UCONN (see UW)- ??? didn't know about this one.
UAB (Morlandt only) - Ablative and flaps [Holmes kind of does his own thing now]
UCSF - Kolykithias from UIC may head down there to do Ablative only
Case (Bauer)- Ablative only
Parkland (Williams at JPS) - Ablative and flaps
UT Houston (Shum)- Ablative and flaps
Buffalo (Park)- Ablative and flaps
Baylor (Kang)- Ablative and flaps
Kentucky (Curtis in July)- Ablative and flaps starting in July
Fresno (Woo)- Ablative and flaps
BU (Salama)- Ablative and flaps
Jacksonville (Fernandez, Pirgousis, Goldman) - Ablative and flaps
NYU ( Schmidt, Hirsch) - ablative
Delaware ( Shihabi - prob in july.) - ablative and flaps
Mississippi (Qaisi) ablative and flaps
McGill canada ( El hakim, Makhoul ) ablative and flaps
Detroit -StJohn (Ramirez ) Ablative and flaps
Nova (McClure) ablative and flaps
 
OHSU (Dierks, Bell, Potter) - ablative (Bui, Cheng, Petrisor)- ablative and flaps
Minnesota (Kademani) ablative only
Mayo (Arce)- Ablative only-
Tenn (Carlson)- Ablative only -
Miami (Marx, Tursun)- Ablative, flaps, tissue engineering
LSU Shreve (Ghali, David Kim, Yeoh)- Ablative and flaps
LSU NO -(Kim, Zaid) Ablative and flaps
Maryland (Ord, Lubek, Dyalram)- Ablative and flaps
Carle (Bailey)- ablative and free flaps (ent harvests, but not sure if omfs ever harvests)
UW (Dillon)- Ablative only - Futran or Plastics does flaps
Michigan (Helman, Ward, Edwards, Skouteris)- Ablative and Flaps
UCONN (see UW)- ??? didn't know about this one.
UAB (Morlandt only) - Ablative and flaps [Holmes kind of does his own thing now]
UCSF - Kolykithias from UIC may head down there to do Ablative only
Case (Bauer)- Ablative only
Parkland (Williams at JPS) - Ablative and flaps
UT Houston (Shum)- Ablative and flaps
Buffalo (Park)- Ablative and flaps
Baylor (Kang)- Ablative and flaps
Kentucky (Curtis in July)- Ablative and flaps starting in July
Fresno (Woo)- Ablative and flaps
BU (Salama)- Ablative and flaps
Jacksonville (Fernandez, Pirgousis, Goldman) - Ablative and flaps
NYU ( Schmidt, Hirsch) - ablative
Delaware ( Shihabi - prob in july.) - ablative and flaps
Mississippi (Qaisi) ablative and flaps
McGill canada ( El hakim, Makhoul ) ablative and flaps
Detroit -StJohn (Ramirez ) Ablative and flaps
Nova (McClure) ablative and flaps[/QUOTE]
 
A question about OHSU. can anyone confirm that the residents at OHSU (and UW residents) will no longer rotate with Dierks/bell potter? if so, then you may as well remove OHSU residency from this list, essentially making Dierks, bell potter more of a fellowship only experience





OHSU (Dierks, Bell, Potter) - ablative (Bui, Cheng, Petrisor)- ablative and flaps
Minnesota (Kademani) ablative only
Mayo (Arce)- Ablative only-
Tenn (Carlson)- Ablative only -
Miami (Marx, Tursun)- Ablative, flaps, tissue engineering
LSU Shreve (Ghali, David Kim, Yeoh)- Ablative and flaps
LSU NO -(Kim, Zaid) Ablative and flaps
Maryland (Ord, Lubek, Dyalram)- Ablative and flaps
Carle (Bailey)- ablative and free flaps (ent harvests, but not sure if omfs ever harvests)
UW (Dillon)- Ablative only - Futran or Plastics does flaps
Michigan (Helman, Ward, Edwards, Skouteris)- Ablative and Flaps
UCONN (see UW)- ??? didn't know about this one.
UAB (Morlandt only) - Ablative and flaps [Holmes kind of does his own thing now]
UCSF - Kolykithias from UIC may head down there to do Ablative only
Case (Bauer)- Ablative only
Parkland (Williams at JPS) - Ablative and flaps
UT Houston (Shum)- Ablative and flaps
Buffalo (Park)- Ablative and flaps
Baylor (Kang)- Ablative and flaps
Kentucky (Curtis in July)- Ablative and flaps starting in July
Fresno (Woo)- Ablative and flaps
BU (Salama)- Ablative and flaps
Jacksonville (Fernandez, Pirgousis, Goldman) - Ablative and flaps
NYU ( Schmidt, Hirsch) - ablative
Delaware ( Shihabi - prob in july.) - ablative and flaps
Mississippi (Qaisi) ablative and flaps
McGill canada ( El hakim, Makhoul ) ablative and flaps
Detroit -StJohn (Ramirez ) Ablative and flaps
Nova (McClure) ablative and flaps[/QUOTE]
 
"UCSF - Kolykithias from UIC may head down there to do Ablative only."

I would just like to say good luck to Kolykithias. We all know what happened to Schmidt. Hospital politics is what drove him out. Regardless if you have an MD, an oral surgeon in California is a dentist, not a cancer surgeon and not a physician. Fresno is an exception but Drs. Brian Woo and Robert Julian's success there is because their location is in the middle of nowhere and therefore, they have no one to battle their cases with. I commend their work but I do think there's a need for their program to shift from a 4 year to a 6 year program. And that applies to all other 4 year programs listed that are doing cancer. In my opinion, it doesn't make sense for a single degree oral surgeon to perform cancer, cosmetics, craniofacial, etc., especially in this generation.


OHSU (Dierks, Bell, Potter) - ablative (Bui, Cheng, Petrisor)- ablative and flaps
Minnesota (Kademani) ablative only
Mayo (Arce)- Ablative only-
Tenn (Carlson)- Ablative only -
Miami (Marx, Tursun)- Ablative, flaps, tissue engineering
LSU Shreve (Ghali, David Kim, Yeoh)- Ablative and flaps
LSU NO -(Kim, Zaid) Ablative and flaps
Maryland (Ord, Lubek, Dyalram)- Ablative and flaps
Carle (Bailey)- ablative and free flaps (ent harvests, but not sure if omfs ever harvests)
UW (Dillon)- Ablative only - Futran or Plastics does flaps
Michigan (Helman, Ward, Edwards, Skouteris)- Ablative and Flaps
UCONN (see UW)- ??? didn't know about this one.
UAB (Morlandt only) - Ablative and flaps [Holmes kind of does his own thing now]
UCSF - Kolykithias from UIC may head down there to do Ablative only.
Case (Bauer)- Ablative only
Parkland (Williams at JPS) - Ablative and flaps
UT Houston (Shum)- Ablative and flaps
Buffalo (Park)- Ablative and flaps
Baylor (Kang)- Ablative and flaps
Kentucky (Curtis in July)- Ablative and flaps starting in July
Fresno (Woo)- Ablative and flaps
BU (Salama)- Ablative and flaps
Jacksonville (Fernandez, Pirgousis, Goldman) - Ablative and flaps
NYU ( Schmidt, Hirsch) - ablative
Delaware ( Shihabi - prob in july.) - ablative and flaps
Mississippi (Qaisi) ablative and flaps
McGill canada ( El hakim, Makhoul ) ablative and flaps
Detroit -StJohn (Ramirez ) Ablative and flaps
Nova (McClure) ablative and flaps[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
 

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Serious question, but why do people want to go to programs that do cancer surgeries? After having been on externships where they are done, it doesn't seem as though residents get to do much on the surgeries (and most have said that they would never do them unless they do a fellowship, which very few even pursue). It seems like the attending do most/all of the surgery and have the residents just do all of the grunt work, like flap checks. It just seems that time could be better spent doing procedures than doing flap checks. If I am missing something, then please let me know, but to me it seems like a waste of time unless you want to pursue a fellowship.
 
It's more about learning the medical fundamentals of managing those patients. You don't have to deal with cancer patients in your practice after training, but you should know as much as you can regarding their care. I have found that this is where I have learned the most about basic medicine - something that most dental schools do not equip us with before we start residency. Doing the surgical procedure is only the first step, and arguably the least important in terms of the learning aspect.
 
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ballztowallzomfs said:
Serious question, but why do people want to go to programs that do cancer surgeries? After having been on externships where they are done, it doesn't seem as though residents get to do much on the surgeries (and most have said that they would never do them unless they do a fellowship, which very few even pursue). It seems like the attending do most/all of the surgery and have the residents just do all of the grunt work, like flap checks. It just seems that time could be better spent doing procedures than doing flap checks. If I am missing something, then please let me know, but to me it seems like a waste of time unless you want to pursue a fellowship.
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You’ve asked a very valid question. You are right; residents do perform the “grunt” work for their attendings. Residency programs provide attendings cheap resources. Instead of paying an assistant to do the “grunt” work, they use residents to babysit their patients at no cost. Also, just because the Chairman or Director of a program does cancer does not mean their residents will go on to do cancer. Don’t believe everything you hear on externships or interviews. Residents will claim they are “full scope”; they do cancer, cosmetics or such and such. It’s all baloney.

And to answer your question, I think most people select their programs based on either reputation or location; not because they are actually interested in a particular area of oral surgery. At the stage of deciding which program a person wants to match to, that person (dental student) really has no idea what they want to do after residency because they know so little. It doesn't matter which program you’re at, whether it's a 4 or 6 year program, you won't find out what you're interested in doing until you're a senior level resident.
 
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Spaceman Spif said:
It's more about learning the medical fundamentals of managing those patients. You don't have to deal with cancer patients in your practice after training, but you should know as much as you can regarding their care. I have found that this is where I have learned the most about basic medicine - something that most dental schools do not equip us with before we start residency. Doing the surgical procedure is only the first step, and arguably the least important in terms of the learning aspect.
Click to expand...

This is very true. While it is difficult (if not impossible) to know as a dental student if you are 100% committed to oncology/microvascular surgery, those who are should strongly consider the above programs. Unfortunately for those not interested in H&N, it is painful (and often unnecessary) to manage these patients.
 
I just externed at OHSU and OHSU residents still and will continue to rotate at the Head and Neck surgical center and at Legacy where they do most these cancer cases. I don't why the guys indicated above would not working with the residents in the future. There was no talk about them going anywhere while being there. Cancer has been and will continue to be a strong part of OHSU moving forward.

It is the UW residents that after this year will not be rotating at Legacy in Portland anymore, thus not working with these guys.
 
Spaceman Spif said:
It's more about learning the medical fundamentals of managing those patients. You don't have to deal with cancer patients in your practice after training, but you should know as much as you can regarding their care. I have found that this is where I have learned the most about basic medicine - something that most dental schools do not equip us with before we start residency. Doing the surgical procedure is only the first step, and arguably the least important in terms of the learning aspect.
Click to expand...

100% agree. I had 2 years of exposure to the peri-operative management of patients, but the amount of learning i've gotten from managing these ASA3,4,5 patients from admission to discharge is invaluable. I can feel myself becoming a real doctor. The programs that only manage their infections, ORIFs, and Orthognathic cases are missing out (we don't even admit our ORIFs/Orthognathic btw), because a lot of those patients are very healthy and hardly ever require SICU stays...but ALL of our flaps go through the SICU and we are the primary team on 90% of them.

Also, general surgery, though brutal, is how you learn to become a surgeon. My program only does 5 months of gen surg (which is nice on paper) which really means we miss out on a lot of the fundamental stuff that makes a surgeon a surgeon. The H+N cancer/flap cases somewhat make up for this. They are big cases involving more than just the head and neck, and then require the postoperative medical management.

Flaps are brutal as interns...but they are fantastic for learning. In my opinion you become a real doctor and a real surgeon from these patients.
 
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OHSU (Dierks, Bell, Potter) - ablative (Bui, Cheng, Petrisor)- ablative and flaps
Minnesota (Kademani) ablative only
Mayo (Arce)- Ablative only-
Tenn (Carlson)- Ablative only -
Miami (Marx, Tursun)- Ablative, flaps, tissue engineering
LSU Shreve (Ghali, David Kim, Yeoh)- Ablative and flaps
LSU NO -(Kim, Zaid) Ablative and flaps
Maryland (Ord, Lubek, Dyalram)- Ablative and flaps
Carle (Bailey)- ablative and free flaps (ent harvests, but not sure if omfs ever harvests)
UW (Dillon)- Ablative only - Futran or Plastics does flaps
Michigan (Helman, Ward, Edwards, Skouteris)- Ablative and Flaps
UCONN (see UW)- ??? didn't know about this one.
UAB (Morlandt only) - Ablative and flaps [Holmes kind of does his own thing now]
UCSF - Kolykithias from UIC may head down there to do Ablative only.
Case (Bauer)- Ablative only
Parkland (Williams at JPS) - Ablative and flaps
UT Houston (Shum, Melville)- Ablative and flaps
Buffalo (Park)- Ablative and flaps
Baylor (Kang)- Ablative and flaps
Kentucky (Curtis in July)- Ablative and flaps starting in July
Fresno (Woo)- Ablative and flaps
BU (Salama)- Ablative and flaps
Jacksonville (Fernandez, Pirgousis, Goldman) - Ablative and flaps
NYU ( Schmidt, Hirsch) - ablative
Delaware ( Shihabi - prob in july.) - ablative and flaps
Mississippi (Qaisi) ablative and flaps
McGill canada ( El hakim, Makhoul ) ablative and flaps
Detroit -StJohn (Ramirez ) Ablative and flaps
Nova (McClure) ablative and flaps[/QUOTE][/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
 
Sublimazing said:
100% agree. I had 2 years of exposure to the peri-operative management of patients, but the amount of learning i've gotten from managing these ASA3,4,5 patients from admission to discharge is invaluable. I can feel myself becoming a real doctor. The programs that only manage their infections, ORIFs, and Orthognathic cases are missing out (we don't even admit our ORIFs/Orthognathic btw), because a lot of those patients are very healthy and hardly ever require SICU stays...but ALL of our flaps go through the SICU and we are the primary team on 90% of them.

Also, general surgery, though brutal, is how you learn to become a surgeon. My program only does 5 months of gen surg (which is nice on paper) which really means we miss out on a lot of the fundamental stuff that makes a surgeon a surgeon. The H+N cancer/flap cases somewhat make up for this. They are big cases involving more than just the head and neck, and then require the postoperative medical management.

Flaps are brutal as interns...but they are fantastic for learning. In my opinion you become a real doctor and a real surgeon from these patients.
Click to expand...

5 months of gen surg is nice on paper? ...doesn't sound too impressive. Is this what you tell the plastic surgeons that have gone through 5 years of general surgery?
Are you training at a 4 year program that does cancer?

Flap checks are fantastic for learning? You're just monitoring an area of blood supply all night while the primary surgeon sleeps. There's not much to it. There are nurses that do flap checks. As an intern, you're pretty much just a watchdog for free flap cases.
 
OMSWannaB said:
5 months of gen surg is nice on paper? ...doesn't sound too impressive. Is this what you tell the plastic surgeons that have gone through 5 years of general surgery?
Are you training at a 4 year program that does cancer?

Flap checks are fantastic for learning? You're just monitoring an area of blood supply all night while the primary surgeon sleeps. There's not much to it. There are nurses that do flap checks. As an intern, you're pretty much just a watchdog for free flap cases.
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Haha, you sound like an angry person and misinterpreted both of my points.

Flap checks are a tiny fraction of the medical management we do.

And i meant sounds good on paper as in appealing to applicants.

Go hate somewhere else.
 
OMSWannaB said:
5 months of gen surg is nice on paper? ...doesn't sound too impressive. Is this what you tell the plastic surgeons that have gone through 5 years of general surgery?
Are you training at a 4 year program that does cancer?

Flap checks are fantastic for learning? You're just monitoring an area of blood supply all night while the primary surgeon sleeps. There's not much to it. There are nurses that do flap checks. As an intern, you're pretty much just a watchdog for free flap cases.
Click to expand...

You're a loser man. Your last post line was about too many mormons being in omfs, and you deleted all your posts...grow up

What program are you at? How did you become such an expert? My guess is that you're still some poser dental student who bombed the cbse
 
DavesNotHere said:
You're a loser man. Your last post line was about too many mormons being in omfs, and you deleted all your posts...grow up

What program are you at? How did you become such an expert? My guess is that you're still some poser dental student who bombed the cbse
Click to expand...

And what makes you an expert?
 
OMSWannaB said:
And what makes you an expert?
Click to expand...
Im not an expert, but i have lot of respect for these guys that do cancer, and i know how much work the interns put in taking care of these patients

You however, are some punk dental student who has a history on this forum of inflammatory remarks who needs to keep his mouth shut
 
Everyone wants to get different things out of residency...but for myself and a lot of other residents we want to become real doctors and surgeons... and taking care of these cancer patients as a resident both intra-operatively and peri-operatively is difficult, but a tremendous learning opportunity that you just don't get if you're managing 20-30 year olds with ORIFs and Infections...being the primary team on a patient in the SICU is far far different than simply running unasyn and irrigating wounds until you discharge some guy who got punched in the face...and honestly, no one is forcing you to apply to any program, so for some dental student to come on here and bad mouth these cancer programs (which are all very respected programs) just makes you look like an a-hole
 
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DavesNotHere said:
Im not an expert, but i have lot of respect for these guys that do cancer, and i know how much work the interns put in taking care of these patients

You however, are some punk dental student who has a history on this forum of inflammatory remarks who needs to keep his mouth shut
Click to expand...

So according to these "real" surgeons, I'm a loser, a-hole, and a punk dental student who bombed the CBSE. Sounds very mature.
 
OMSWannaB said:
"UCSF - Kolykithias from UIC may head down there to do Ablative only."

I would just like to say good luck to Kolykithias. We all know what happened to Schmidt. Hospital politics is what drove him out. Regardless if you have an MD, an oral surgeon in California is a dentist, not a cancer surgeon and not a physician. Fresno is an exception but Drs. Brian Woo and Robert Julian's success there is because their location is in the middle of nowhere and therefore, they have no one to battle their cases with. I commend their work but I do think there's a need for their program to shift from a 4 year to a 6 year program. And that applies to all other 4 year programs listed that are doing cancer. In my opinion, it doesn't make sense for a single degree oral surgeon to perform cancer, cosmetics, craniofacial, etc., especially in this generation.
Click to expand...

Please tell this to all the current single degree surgeons doing just that in today's generation. MD does not magically change your surgical training, case log / fellowship does.
 
osteotomy01 said:
Please tell this to all the current single degree surgeons doing just that in today's generation. MD does not magically change your surgical training, case log / fellowship does.
Click to expand...

I know there are many amazing single degree surgeons such as Robert Marx or Edward Ellis. I have nothing but the utmost respect for individuals like them. However, they are from the “older” generation. Many great single degree oral surgeons of their time did not have the option to go to medical school. There just wasn’t that many dual degree programs back then. Though I’m pretty sure they would have chosen medical school if they did have the option.

And I never said having an MD alters an oral surgeon’s surgical training. However, regardless of the extensive training, the number of case loads, or number of fellowships (it can be a million fellowships); in reality, an oral surgeon without an MD will just be known as a “dentist”. If you go talk to someone not in the dental field, they won’t be able to distinguish between a periodontist and a single degree oral surgeon.
 
OMSWannaB said:
I know there are many amazing single degree surgeons such as Robert Marx or Edward Ellis. I have nothing but the utmost respect for individuals like them. However, they are from the “older” generation. Many great single degree oral surgeons of their time did not have the option to go to medical school. There just wasn’t that many dual degree programs back then. Though I’m pretty sure they would have chosen medical school if they did have the option.

And I never said having an MD alters an oral surgeon’s surgical training. However, regardless of the extensive training, the number of case loads, or number of fellowships (it can be a million fellowships); in reality, an oral surgeon without an MD will just be known as a “dentist”. If you go talk to someone not in the dental field, they won’t be able to distinguish between a periodontist and a single degree oral surgeon.
Click to expand...


Old school broad scoped single degree OMS are essentially grandfathered in to the group of "head and neck" trained OMS Group that is listed in this OMS Cancer/flap thread. A DDS/DMD is a Dentist, and a MD is a physician. both are "Doctors."... don't forget that a phd, OD, chiropractic, podiatrist, etc fall into the "doctors" definition as well.

One just needs to look at the faculty who comprise the above listed programs to see that having a DDS /MD is advantageous for this scope of OMS, and for those who do not have the dual degree, the single degree 'head/neck' guys are a part of a program which already have a dual degree there. (with the exception of miami)

You will not see a single degree OMS do head /neck unless they are joining a program that already has a dds/md.


my 2 cents
 
naruto135 said:
OHSU (Dierks, Bell, Potter) - ablative (Bui, Cheng, Petrisor)- ablative and flaps
Minnesota (Kademani) ablative only
Mayo (Arce)- Ablative only-
Tenn (Carlson)- Ablative only -
Miami (Marx, Tursun)- Ablative, flaps, tissue engineering
LSU Shreve (Ghali, David Kim, Yeoh)- Ablative and flaps
LSU NO -(Kim, Zaid) Ablative and flaps
Maryland (Ord, Lubek, Dyalram)- Ablative and flaps
Carle (Bailey)- ablative and free flaps (ent harvests, but not sure if omfs ever harvests)
UW (Dillon)- Ablative only - Futran or Plastics does flaps
Michigan (Helman, Ward, Edwards, Skouteris)- Ablative and Flaps
UCONN (see UW)- ??? didn't know about this one.
UAB (Morlandt only) - Ablative and flaps [Holmes kind of does his own thing now]
UCSF - Kolykithias from UIC may head down there to do Ablative only.
Case (Bauer)- Ablative only
Parkland (Williams at JPS) - Ablative and flaps
UT Houston (Shum, Melville)- Ablative and flaps
Buffalo (Park)- Ablative and flaps
Baylor (Kang)- Ablative and flaps
Kentucky (Curtis in July)- Ablative and flaps starting in July
Fresno (Woo)- Ablative and flaps
BU (Salama)- Ablative and flaps
Jacksonville (Fernandez, Pirgousis, Goldman) - Ablative and flaps
NYU ( Schmidt, Hirsch) - ablative
Delaware ( Shihabi - prob in july.) - ablative and flaps
Mississippi (Qaisi) ablative and flaps
McGill canada ( El hakim, Makhoul ) ablative and flaps
Detroit -StJohn (Ramirez ) Ablative and flaps
Nova (McClure) ablative and flaps
Click to expand...
[/QUOTE][/QUOTE][/QUOTE]


Great list. Looks like a bunch of people contributed to make it. I want to throw in one caveat, this list will need to be CONTINUOUSLY updated. Programs are hiring new attendings all the time and some attendings leave/retire. It's hard to say if you start a program that doesn't do ablative and flaps DOESN'T mean it will be that way your chief year. I know because I'm in one that just started doing free flaps. Just go to the program you fit in the best. If they do flaps, then great. If they don't do flaps, still great. Just go where you want to go.
 
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Christiana Care in Delaware ( Shihabi) - Ablative and Flaps
OHSU (Dierks, Bell, Potter) - ablative (Bui, Cheng, Petrisor)- ablative and flaps
Minnesota (Kademani) ablative only
Mayo (Arce)- Ablative only-
Tenn (Carlson)- Ablative only -
Miami (Marx, Tursun)- Ablative, flaps, tissue engineering
LSU Shreve (Ghali, David Kim, Yeoh)- Ablative and flaps
LSU NO -(Kim, Zaid) Ablative and flaps
Maryland (Ord, Lubek, Dyalram)- Ablative and flaps
Carle (Bailey)- ablative and free flaps (ent harvests, but not sure if omfs ever harvests)
UW (Dillon)- Ablative only - Futran or Plastics does flaps
Michigan (Helman, Ward, Edwards, Skouteris)- Ablative and Flaps
UCONN (see UW)- ??? didn't know about this one.
UAB (Morlandt only) - Ablative and flaps [Holmes kind of does his own thing now]
UCSF - Kolykithias from UIC may head down there to do Ablative only.
Case (Bauer)- Ablative only
Parkland (Williams at JPS) - Ablative and flaps
UT Houston (Shum, Melville)- Ablative and flaps
Buffalo (Park)- Ablative and flaps
Baylor (Kang)- Ablative and flaps
Kentucky (Curtis in July)- Ablative and flaps starting in July
Fresno (Woo)- Ablative and flaps
BU (Salama)- Ablative and flaps
Jacksonville (Fernandez, Pirgousis, Goldman) - Ablative and flaps
NYU ( Schmidt, Hirsch) - ablative
Mississippi (Qaisi) ablative and flaps
McGill canada ( El hakim, Makhoul ) ablative and flaps
Detroit -StJohn (Ramirez ) Ablative and flaps
Nova (McClure) ablative and flaps
 
I tossed UF into the mix. Recent faculty addition BJ Schlott is doing about 6 cases/month at the moment. All have been oral cancer for the most part. No salivary gland disease as of yet, though he's only been here about 6 months now. Free tissue is with PRS or ENT which we have a great relationship with.

Cancer has been a welcome addition to the mix. It's only welcome since we're still busy with trauma/orthognathics/joint/benign path. I'd be wary of places that are so dominated by one area that it's overwhelming, but that's my own personal opinion.


UF Gainesville (Schlott) - ablative
Christiana Care in Delaware ( Shihabi) - Ablative and Flaps
OHSU (Dierks, Bell, Potter) - ablative (Bui, Cheng, Petrisor)- ablative and flaps
Minnesota (Kademani) ablative only
Mayo (Arce)- Ablative only-
Tenn (Carlson)- Ablative only -
Miami (Marx, Tursun)- Ablative, flaps, tissue engineering
LSU Shreve (Ghali, David Kim, Yeoh)- Ablative and flaps
LSU NO -(Kim, Zaid) Ablative and flaps
Maryland (Ord, Lubek, Dyalram)- Ablative and flaps
Carle (Bailey)- ablative and free flaps (ent harvests, but not sure if omfs ever harvests)
UW (Dillon)- Ablative only - Futran or Plastics does flaps
Michigan (Helman, Ward, Edwards, Skouteris)- Ablative and Flaps
UCONN (see UW)- ??? didn't know about this one.
UAB (Morlandt only) - Ablative and flaps [Holmes kind of does his own thing now]
UCSF - Kolykithias from UIC may head down there to do Ablative only.
Case (Bauer)- Ablative only
Parkland (Williams at JPS) - Ablative and flaps
UT Houston (Shum, Melville)- Ablative and flaps
Buffalo (Park)- Ablative and flaps
Baylor (Kang)- Ablative and flaps
Kentucky (Curtis in July)- Ablative and flaps starting in July
Fresno (Woo)- Ablative and flaps
BU (Salama)- Ablative and flaps
Jacksonville (Fernandez, Pirgousis, Goldman) - Ablative and flaps
NYU ( Schmidt, Hirsch) - ablative
Mississippi (Qaisi) ablative and flaps
McGill canada ( El hakim, Makhoul ) ablative and flaps
Detroit -StJohn (Ramirez ) Ablative and flaps
Nova (McClure) ablative and flaps
 
UF Gainesville (Schlott) - ablative
Christiana Care in Delaware ( Shihabi) - Ablative and Flaps
OHSU (Dierks, Bell, Potter) - ablative (Bui, Cheng, Petrisor)- ablative and flaps
Minnesota (Kademani) ablative only
Mayo (Arce)- Ablative only-
Tenn (Carlson)- Ablative only -
Miami (Marx, Tursun)- Ablative, flaps, tissue engineering
LSU Shreve (Ghali, David Kim, Yeoh)- Ablative and flaps
LSU NO -(Kim, Zaid) Ablative and flaps
Maryland (Ord, Lubek, Dyalram)- Ablative and flaps
Carle (Bailey)- ablative and free flaps (ent harvests, but not sure if omfs ever harvests)
UW (Dillon)- Ablative only - Futran or Plastics does flaps
Michigan (Helman, Ward, Edwards, Skouteris)- Ablative and Flaps
UCONN (see UW)- ??? didn't know about this one.
UAB (Morlandt only) - Ablative and flaps [Holmes kind of does his own thing now]
UCSF - Kolykithias from UIC may head down there to do Ablative only.
Case (Baur)- Ablative only
Parkland (Williams at JPS) - Ablative and flaps
UT Houston (Shum, Melville)- Ablative and flaps
Buffalo (Park)- Ablative and flaps
Baylor (Kang)- Ablative and flaps
Kentucky (Curtis in July)- Ablative and flaps starting in July
Fresno (Woo)- Ablative and flaps
BU (Salama)- Ablative and flaps
Jacksonville (Fernandez, Pirgousis, Goldman) - Ablative and flaps
NYU ( Schmidt, Hirsch) - ablative
Mississippi (Qaisi) ablative and flaps
McGill canada ( El hakim, Makhoul ) ablative and flaps
Detroit -StJohn (Ramirez ) Ablative and flaps
Nova (McClure) ablative and flaps
Vanderbilt (Williams) ablative starting in July
 
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