Ok, so who here abuses Med Students????

[Hard24Get]

And why?

I just got chewed out in front of 7+ people by my chief resident b/c I missed a "what am I thinking" question. He didn't relent until he was stopped by the attending, and everyone came up to me afterwards and apologized for him. Why would someone do something like this? Don't you remember what it's like to be a medical student? Are we less than human to you? Do you get pleasure out of crushing what miniscule dignity we have in the clinics?

Or did someone abuse you and that made you a better doctor?
It would be really interesting to hear the rationale in this anonymous medium. I know there are people out there that have reduced others to tears - let's hear it!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[wook]

And why?

I just got chewed out in front of 7+ people by my chief resident b/c I missed a "what am I thinking" question. He didn't relent until he was stopped by the attending, and everyone came up to me afterwards and apologized for him. Why would someone do something like this? Don't you remember what it's like to be a medical student? Are we less than human to you? Do you get pleasure out of crushing what miniscule dignity we have in the clinics?

Or did someone abuse you and that made you a better doctor?
It would be really interesting to hear the rationale in this anonymous medium. I know there are people out there that have reduced others to tears - let's hear it!

Sorry, can't help you here. IMO people like this simply don't seem to understand how to train/teach others.

Wook

 

[toofache32]

In general, "i don't know" is the quickest way to end it. The only time a resident ever really bitched at me was when I answered "what part of 'i don't know' do you not understand?" when he kept pushing me on some obscure pimp question.

 

[dutchman]

In general, "i don't know" is the quickest way to end it. The only time a resident ever really bitched at me was when I answered "what part of 'i don't know' do you not understand?" when he kept pushing me on some obscure pimp question.

OP you should have established some authoritaw like toofache32.

 

[Mumpu]

Let me guess... Are you on surgery or OB/Gyn?

 

[MOHS_01]

I gave the students a hard way to go a time or two -- but I would never belittle them in front of others or make them look bad to an attending.

Every now and then I would ask what they wanted to do...and if they missed something important, I would point out:

congratulations, now you get to inform mrs. johnson that her son died b/c his doctor was too busy shopping on ebay when they should have been reading and learning how to ....

then i went into derm and all of my fun disappeared.

 

[GoofyDoc]

Sorry to tell you this, but as an intern you have even less dignity than a med student. You get chewed out by patients, senior residents, chiefs, attendings, nurses, etc, etc because you're "just an intern."

 

[turkleton]

And why?

I just got chewed out in front of 7+ people by my chief resident b/c I missed a "what am I thinking" question. He didn't relent until he was stopped by the attending, and everyone came up to me afterwards and apologized for him. Why would someone do something like this? Don't you remember what it's like to be a medical student? Are we less than human to you? Do you get pleasure out of crushing what miniscule dignity we have in the clinics?

Or did someone abuse you and that made you a better doctor?
It would be really interesting to hear the rationale in this anonymous medium. I know there are people out there that have reduced others to tears - let's hear it!

Yea being a third year sucks at times... actually most of the time. I've gotten yelled at by everyone from attendings to residents to nurses, often for no good reason. It can be spirit crushing, but I just assumed it went with the terrain and if you wanted to become a doctor you had to stand there and take your licks.

It seems- and I could be wrong- doctors are obsessed/insecure about their intelligence, power, and status. Or it may be the intense training, long hours, and not getting any. Who knows. In the end, physicians/residents, despite everyone else thinking that once in medicine you're a saint, are like other people- most are nice, but some are just jerks. But you're almost done. 4th year is great, you get treated better, and you see the light. Hang in there. Just remember not to committ the same sin of your current teachers when you're in their position.

 

[dutchman]

Yea being a third year sucks at times... actually most of the time. I've gotten yelled at by everyone from attendings to residents to nurses, often for no good reason. It can be spirit crushing, but I just assumed it went with the terrain and if you wanted to become a doctor you had to stand there and take your licks.

It seems- and I could be wrong- doctors are obsessed/insecure about their intelligence, power, and status. Or it may be the intense training, long hours, and not getting any. Who knows. In the end, physicians/residents, despite everyone else thinking that once in medicine you're a saint, are like other people- most are nice, but some are just jerks. But you're almost done. 4th year is great, you get treated better, and you see the light. Hang in there. Just remember not to committ the same sin of your current teachers when you're in their position.

true

 

[EctopicFetus]

Sorry to tell you this, but as an intern you have even less dignity than a med student. You get chewed out by patients, senior residents, chiefs, attendings, nurses, etc, etc because you're "just an intern."

I dont know where you are training but this is def NOT the case for me. I dont have to care about my grades etc and I am most def not afraid to stand up for myself. As I like to tell friends who have had this happen...

"I am a grown ass man" dont mess with me..

 

[EctopicFetus]

Here are things I will guess. 100% generalizing.. You got chewed out by a G Surg or Ob resident who was smallish in stature. Think napoleon complex. Also my experience is that those who yell the most tend to know the least.

Docs who are comfortable in their knowledge and skill tend to be more calm and cool. Docs who yell and scream usually do so because they dont know what the F they are doing and therefore are uncomfortable and anxious. They take this out on whoever they can (med students) and belittle you cause you wont say anything. Remember this sucks and when you become the man dont be an A hole.

 

[Hurricane]

As an intern, I never belittle or pimp my med students, and I try to impart whatever knowledge I have in a respectful and helpful way. And if there is no reason for them to be hanging around, I tell them to go home and do something productive.

All I ask in return is that they do the guiacs on their patients instead of me. They're the only ones who know where the nurses hide the developer anyway...

 

[watermen]

Sometimes ago, I asked one of my fellow med student a question, one day when you become a resident, will you make your med student life difficult? Guess what she answer..."hope that I don't"...and guess what she wants to go into...OB....I definitely believe she is the kind of people that will make her med student life suck...because even as a fellow med student now...I really don't like working with her...maybe that is the OBGYN mentality. Birds of the same feathers fly together....sigh...

 

[EctopicFetus]

im not gonna be a complete dick but watermen you need to add some "s" 's to your post.

 

[lushmd]

...Don't you remember what it's like to be a medical student?...

This is the thing that is most striking. These are generally folks that were standing in our shoes just a few years ago, but you would never know it by the way some of them act. Having said that, by and large the residents I have interacted with have been pretty decent (yes, even the G. Surg. residents...).

 

[Apollyon]

In our main ED, we have off-service rotators, who are interns (which bugs me a little, because I joined this group for it being community, and not academic - it's that they're residents, not just because they're interns), not medical students. The current one was sitting next to me a few shifts back, and I said to him, "Can I scut you? Can you hand me those two prescriptions in the printer?" (which was just next to him on the other side). He said, "And? Where's the scut?" And I said that I could have gotten up and gotten the Rx's myself, and that I was just being lazy. He didn't think he was being scutted - hell, last week, he offered to buy me food in the cafeteria on his resident ID card (that offer of which I did not take him up).

This intern, though, went to a military school that was our rival (as I also went to a military school), and one of the coveted tenets of military school is that the first year is hell, with abuse that is warranted, unwarranted, and the inspiration of the voices in the heads of the tormentors. I didn't like it, and said I wouldn't do it when I was in that position, and I didn't. Then, in med school, with a "pseudo-military" hierarchy (since it wasn't earned, but only gained by 'time in service'), I had to see people leading who clearly did NOT have leadership skills (like some tool resident chewing a student out for minutes on end until his boss stops him - really, really, REALLY bad form), and I did not like that, and said I wouldn't do it, and I didn't. I remember one peds resident when I was a student, who was from Nigeria (which is relevant because of her accent and manner of speech), and wasn't the most motivated person ever. One day she asked my buddy Paul (6' 4", All-American, blond, blue-eyed, great guy - married with two kids, and had the HOTTEST female residents and attendings - married or single - always coming on to him - hard) this: she says, "Can you...sharpen my pencil for me?" Paulie had a heyday with that.

It's common courtesy and decency. People who abuse students and residents because they are students or residents just don't "get it".

So, after my diatribe, think of it this way - when you are in his shoes, either you can do the same thing, or do something different, and opposite. And, also, EF is completely on the mark: "I am a grown ass man (or woman)". These buttcrax that imply that you are a bad person because you got something wrong or didn't know it are shmucks. Not know a question does NOT make you equal to being the kidnapper of the Lindbergh baby, no matter what some idiot thinks.

("Buttcrax" intentionally spelled like that, just so I could.)

 

[8744]

I treat everybody with the utmost respect and courtesy. I don't pimp medical students, I don't scut them out, and I can't imagine a situation where I would ever belittle anybody, especially in front of their peers.

It just ain't my bag, baby.

 

[typhoonegator]

My advice to the students in this thread is to try to keep the perspective you currently have on this issue. Remember that even the biggest, baddest, meanest senior residents were once med students too, and many of them probably felt the same way you do now when they were in your shoes.

Not to justify or condone their actions, but some people do pretty strange things when their stress level rises, and residency can quite a stressful experience. Just try to maintain the healthy frame of reference you have now, and you'll be fine.

 

[Llenroc]

I treat everybody with the utmost respect and courtesy. I don't pimp medical students, I don't scut them out, and I can't imagine a situation where I would ever belittle anybody, especially in front of their peers.

It just ain't my bag, baby.

My Dad said that when he was a resident (here in the States), he would spend a few hours with the medical students teaching them things in the morning, and then he would dismiss them in the afternoon to go study or do whatever. This is how things work overseas where my Dad trained at. Medical students come into the wards for a few hours each day as a supplement to the *real* book learning. That's how it is in most countries, and probably should be here in the U.S.

When I told my Dad about my experiences of standing around in the wards from 5:30 to 7 at night, holding a retractor all day like an idiot and being used as a personal assistant to the residents, he was shocked.

And I agree with you that "pimping" (God I hate that term, sounds like some nerd doctor wanted to be hip and borrowed it from a rap video) is useless. If the medical students do not know, then that will be proved on the exams. It is not the job of the doctor to test the knowledge of the medical student.

 

[deleted50478]

And I agree with you that "pimping" (God I hate that term, sounds like some nerd doctor wanted to be hip and borrowed it from a rap video) is useless. If the medical students do not know, then that will be proved on the exams. It is not the job of the doctor to test the knowledge of the medical student.

Pimping isn't useless. It's a way to find out how much the students know and at what level your teaching should begin. There's no sense in teaching what they know any more than going over their heads. That said, ruthless pimping is an awful thing to do, and the questions should stop once it is apparent that the student doesn't know the answer. Continuing on is just sadistic. I think that what is important is your tone of voice and your reaction to wrong answers.
It is too the job of the doctor to test the knowledge of the medical student. Student evaluations contain sections on clinical knowledge base. You have to find out how to give the right score. Exams mostly test your ability to fix associations between key words in your head and have little to do with testing your clinical decision making. Evaluations on the wards probably say more about how well you understand the material than exams do though they should be viewed together I think.
Despite all that, I don't pimp. I talk to the students casually and not in front of a crowd.

 

[Hurricane]

Pimping isn't useless. It's a way to find out how much the students know and at what level your teaching should begin. There's no sense in teaching what they know any more than going over their heads. That said, ruthless pimping is an awful thing to do, and the questions should stop once it is apparent that the student doesn't know the answer. Continuing on is just sadistic. I think that what is important is your tone of voice and your reaction to wrong answers.

I agree, it's all about attitude. I usually just ask them "are you familiar with X?" And if I get blank stares, I tell them that's fine, then I go on and tell them whatever I wanted to make a point about.

 

[justwondering]

ive had mostly decent residents as a med student.

the great ones make us work hard when we're there, teach without "pimping" (i think there's a difference btwn pimping and just asking a student a question...its all about the formal-ness of the situation and the consequence if u dont know the answer, i think), they let us go home by 2pm if there's nothing to do for the rest of the day OR they let us go study away from them if they want us to stay the rest of the day.

i HATE when residents make us stick to their sides when there's nothing going on, especially on svcs where nothing emergent happens. we're only a pager away.

the best residents i've had are the ones that maintain a "knowledge heirarchy" only but no "social heirarchy". ie they expect a little respect for having knowledge and experience BUT they treat u like a peer otherwise (when there's down time, they joke around with u and relate to u like a person, maybe even *gasp* offer to grab something from the vending machine for u when they're going...and when that's the case, i dont mind doing a little "scut" for them...i mean, wouldnt u offer to do some meaningless task for a friend if they needed it?).

 

[Hard24Get]

Thanks for your responses, though the meanies are lurking.

I guess I heard alot about this abuse stuff before, and nothing had qualified in my mind, even after completing my core clerkships. Pimping can be useful, even in front of a crowd. I'll do scut - why not?

But dressing someone down verbally b/c it took time to come up with the (right!) answer is just crazy. I'm sure people just get in a bad mood, what makes it abuse is being a superior, so the person can't defend yourself as well as they normally would (I've have already been criticized for being "defensive" as it is).

People have talked about yelling. Are you kidding? Let me make it clear that if someone yells at me, I will either tell them they are being inappropriate or walk away. I am 28 years old!

Sorry to tell you this, but as an intern you have even less dignity than a med student. You get chewed out by patients, senior residents, chiefs, attendings, nurses, etc, etc because you're "just an intern."

Hey, the only reason I put up with any of the $hit in clinics is so I can get a good grade and match into EM (which, thankfully, has decent folks). That's what makes it hard. Once I get out of this hip-hitting coat, all bets are off. Also, you need a new residency program!

 

[ckyuen]

Usually those with attitudes or who attack others are the people who have the lowest self esteem or are not confident in their own skills. How many times have you seen the "experts" perform a surgery that takes them about 3 times as long as a private practioner much higher complication rates. I remember a particularly malignant surgeon who pimped me and a made a fool of me in front of like 14 team members. I thought boy I must suck. Well the following year on my anesthesia rotation after hearing every single one of the anesthesiologists comment on his incompetence in the OR, a lap chole was taking over three hours on and elective basis, I understood some of the hostilities directed at me a year earlier. When I'm in the OR I try never to yell or demean anyone even if they are handing me the incorrect instruments, instead I ask them to place all the instruments on the mayo stand and I grab what I need.

 

[Tigger14]

I am a chief surgery resident, and while we expect our students to arrive on time, be familiar with their patients, and read, they also participate in the OR. Incisions, bovie, knots, cutting with the metz, you name it. In the *appropriate* setting, ie not when there is audible bleeding from the vein you just identified, cancer where you did not expect it, or other significant issues going on, most of our attendings love to teach. I know how to operate... at least 1000 incisions, closures, and the details in between. I think our students get a benign experience. Now those who are not timely, don't read, or are just rude... the Richardson was made to fit their hands.

 

[Misterioso]

oh booh hooh, my resident was a meanie to me. he doesn't kiss my butt like i want everyone to. oh woes me.

please.

 

[wook]

Usually those with attitudes or who attack others are the people who have the lowest self esteem or are not confident in their own skills.

 

[DarksideAllstar]

I am a chief surgery resident, and while we expect our students to arrive on time, be familiar with their patients, and read, they also participate in the OR. Incisions, bovie, knots, cutting with the metz, you name it. In the *appropriate* setting, ie not when there is audible bleeding from the vein you just identified, cancer where you did not expect it, or other significant issues going on, most of our attendings love to teach. I know how to operate... at least 1000 incisions, closures, and the details in between. I think our students get a benign experience. Now those who are not timely, don't read, or are just rude... the Richardson was made to fit their hands.

I agree and commend you on your approach to your students; unfortunately, these principles aren't applied universally, and a good number of hardworking, non-complaining students will get the shaft regardless.

 

[turkleton]

oh booh hooh, my resident was a meanie to me. he doesn't kiss my butt like i want everyone to. oh woes me.

please.

Hell yea brother! You let those pansies have it! I mean if you can't take some gentle abuse from some bitter ***** confusing his extra experience with intelligence, you obviously don't belong in the field! Tell all those negative nancies to go back to nursing school!

Hey afterwards, lets go to the heme-onc floor and make fun of all those annoying patients complaining of nausea. I mean come on, man up!

 

[EctopicFetus]

oh booh hooh, my resident was a meanie to me. he doesn't kiss my butt like i want everyone to. oh woes me.

please.

Ahh i remember you.. you talk a lot for a med student and quite a big game..

I dont think anyone wants butt kissing but rather they want to be treated with the respect and level of decency of a regular human being. I wont comment on you anymore.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Hell yea brother! You let those pansies have it! I mean if you can't take some gentle abuse from some bitter ***** confusing his extra experience with intelligence, you obviously don't belong in the field! Tell all those negative nancies to go back to nursing school!

Hey afterwards, lets go to the heme-onc floor and make fun of all those annoying patients complaining of nausea. I mean come on, man up!

You have summed up Misterioso quite well. i had my run in with him I believe he is a 2nd yr med student.. lol.. clueless...

 

[LADoc00]

I would beat and torture medical students if I had them.

 

[sohsie]

As an intern, I never belittle or pimp my med students, and I try to impart whatever knowledge I have in a respectful and helpful way. And if there is no reason for them to be hanging around, I tell them to go home and do something productive.

All I ask in return is that they do the guiacs on their patients instead of me. They're the only ones who know where the nurses hide the developer anyway...

I hate to admit this, but when I was a med student, I used to carry around a bottle of developer and a bunch of testing kits in my coat so that I wouldn't have to waste time looking for it. Wrose than the nurses hiding it is when they hide it only to find that it isnt where they remember hiding it Especially handy to carry it with me on my 4th year GI rotation.

 

[f_w]

I hate to admit this, but when I was a med student, I used to carry around a bottle of developer and a bunch of testing kits in my coat so that I wouldn't have to waste time looking for it. Wrose than the nurses hiding it is when they hide it only to find that it isnt where they remember hiding it Especially handy to carry it with me on my 4th year GI rotation.

They still allow you guys to do guiacs on the floors ? The places I have been through had the JCAHO police take the developer away because in your pocket the lab can't do 'quality assurance' on this test (also, the developer is a 'medication' and would be harmful if a patient drank it.......)

 

[Alician]

I love to teach and went into intern year determined to be a good resident to my medical students. However, I had no idea how hard it would be to always have a medical student by your side when you are exhausted and working your ass off. That said, if students are respectful and motivated, I spend my spare time teaching and letting them do quite a bit. There are however students that just don't care and need to be constantly reminded to do something or involve themselves. This is even more challenging. I didn't expect this going into intern year. It is hard to get students invovled with your patients when you don't trust them and when they don't seem to care.

 

[kassie]

The reasons are simple:

If it's a guy, he has a small penis
If it's a gal, she's either jealous of you since she hasn't gotten any play (if you're a gal), or she wants to date you but can't (if you're a guy)

It works for me every time!

 

[toogood1]

I remember on my first rotaton as a 3rd year I got chewed out by a female urologist in front of other attendings and a nursing station because I wrote a note wrong. I feel your pain--all I can say is never let them see your pain. I left to be by myself afterwards and actually had to call my mom I was so upset. I think back on it now and some kind of way I feel it made me a stronger person. Even now when I mess up and someone says something smart, I blow it off so quickly. Just treat it as a learning experience and vow not to do it to your future students.

 

[deleted87716]

I treat everybody with the utmost respect and courtesy. I don't pimp medical students, I don't scut them out, and I can't imagine a situation where I would ever belittle anybody, especially in front of their peers.

It just ain't my bag, baby.

Ditto. I never let my car get too dirty before I had them wash it, I always let them change their scrubs afterwards, and I reminded them that the "wax on/wax off" routine was secretly honing their catlike karate moves.

BTW...it's not pimping if you don't know the answer either.

 

[wook]

Hell yea brother! You let those pansies have it! I mean if you can't take some gentle abuse from some bitter ***** confusing his extra experience with intelligence, you obviously don't belong in the field! Tell all those negative nancies to go back to nursing school!

Hey afterwards, lets go to the heme-onc floor and make fun of all those annoying patients complaining of nausea. I mean come on, man up!

 

[Phantom Spike]

On a more serious note, what exactly is your definition of "pimping"? As a resident, the way I would initiate bedside clinical teaching discussions would be to ask an open question like," What would your differential diagnosis for this patient be?", or, "What do you know about this condition?", or, "What do you see on this MRI?", etc. They would always be open questions, directed towards the whole group of students, (no student ever singled out) and if nobody knew the answer, I would give it to them and talk a little about it. However, if, after I asked a question and one of the students answered it, (or I answered it myself), and a follow-up question was appropriate (such as, "Could it be anything else?" or "Why not this instead"), I would still ask it, although again to the whole group. I don't think my students were offended by this method of teaching, but is this a form of pimping as well? As mentioned earlier on this thread, this method is very helpful in determining what level to teach the particular batch of students you have at the time, and I don't know how else you can genuinely answer questions on their individual levels of medical knowledge when it comes time to evaluate them at the end of the month.

 

[wook]

On a more serious note, what exactly is your definition of "pimping"? As a resident, the way I would initiate bedside clinical teaching discussions would be to ask an open question like," What would your differential diagnosis for this patient be?", or, "What do you know about this condition?", or, "What do you see on this MRI?", etc. They would always be open questions, directed towards the whole group of students, (no student ever singled out) and if nobody knew the answer, I would give it to them and talk a little about it. However, if, after I asked a question and one of the students answered it, (or I answered it myself), and a follow-up question was appropriate (such as, "Could it be anything else?" or "Why not this instead"), I would still ask it, although again to the whole group. I don't think my students were offended by this method of teaching, but is this a form of pimping as well? As mentioned earlier on this thread, this method is very helpful in determining what level to teach the particular batch of students you have at the time, and I don't know how else you can genuinely answer questions on their individual levels of medical knowledge when it comes time to evaluate them at the end of the month.

In the context to which you are educating, it may be construed as pimping, BUT educational. Pimping in itself is not negative IMO as it is the Socratic method of teaching and will likely help the students to retain what they've learned (instead of memorized).

Wook

 

[mlw03]

On a more serious note, what exactly is your definition of "pimping"? As a resident, the way I would initiate bedside clinical teaching discussions would be to ask an open question like," What would your differential diagnosis for this patient be?", or, "What do you know about this condition?", or, "What do you see on this MRI?", etc. They would always be open questions, directed towards the whole group of students, (no student ever singled out) and if nobody knew the answer, I would give it to them and talk a little about it. However, if, after I asked a question and one of the students answered it, (or I answered it myself), and a follow-up question was appropriate (such as, "Could it be anything else?" or "Why not this instead"), I would still ask it, although again to the whole group. I don't think my students were offended by this method of teaching, but is this a form of pimping as well? As mentioned earlier on this thread, this method is very helpful in determining what level to teach the particular batch of students you have at the time, and I don't know how else you can genuinely answer questions on their individual levels of medical knowledge when it comes time to evaluate them at the end of the month.

i concur with wook that this is educational - the term my friends and i use is 'benign pimping' to distinguish from 'malignant pimping.' what you describe most definately serves a purpose - both to you as a grader and to us as consumers of knowledge. it cannot be overstated how important tone and demeaner are when it comes to the nature of pimping. there's a faculty at our school who definately asks questions that are over the level of an MS3, but he does so in a way that's non-threatening and helps us learn and i know of no one who's bothered by that. Phantom Spike, you sound like the kind of resident I'd like to work with.

 

[Tigger14]

Pimping is asking questions with the specific goal of demeaning/demoralizing/embarrassing or just hurting someone. It has no educational value. Asking questions is asking questions. If you have not prepared, asking questions can feel like pimping, but otherwise asking questions is a great teaching tool.

Just my opinion.

 

[tkim]

http://www.neonatology.org/pearls/pimping.html

 

[Tired]

Pimping is asking questions with the specific goal of demeaning/demoralizing/embarrassing or just hurting someone. It has no educational value. Asking questions is asking questions. If you have not prepared, asking questions can feel like pimping, but otherwise asking questions is a great teaching tool.

Just my opinion.

There was an article in JAMA back in the mid-80's called "The Art of Pimping". It was a tongue-in-cheek, hilarious article about the most effective ways to pimp students and residents. I'll dig it up and post it on here when I find it.

 

[Apollyon]

There was an article in JAMA back in the mid-80's called "The Art of Pimping". It was a tongue-in-cheek, hilarious article about the most effective ways to pimp students and residents. I'll dig it up and post it on here when I find it.

I think it's the same article in the post above yours. Good stuff.

 

[cdql]

oh booh hooh, my resident was a meanie to me. he doesn't kiss my butt like i want everyone to. oh woes me.

please.

$20 says this fool breaks down into tears the first time his resident offers the slightest bit of criticism

 

[Tired]

I think it's the same article in the post above yours. Good stuff.

You're absolutely right. I love that piece. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[f_w]

From JAMA 262(1):89, July 7, 1989.

, pimping is in danger of becoming a lost art. Increased specialization, the rise of the HMO, and DRG-based financing are probably to blame, as they are for most problems. The burgeoning budget deficit, the changing demographic profile of the United States, the Carter Administration, inefficiency at the Pentagon, and intense competition from Japan have each played a role, though less directly.

Oh, the 80s....

 

[Tired]

$20 says this fool breaks down into tears the first time his resident offers the slightest bit of criticism

$50 says he tries to pimp his residents.