OK for volunteer to tell patients about sleep hygiene?

[Prometheus123]

EDIT: Would it sound impressive in my PS if I adapted the protocol like this? Or should it just be scrapped? What if we applied for grant funding to install specialized circadian lighting in a few patients' rooms on the units where I volunteer at the hospital? We would then see if post-op recovery patients could ambulate sooner, were any less likely to get delirious, slept better, had better moods, and had shorter hospital stays. We could then extrapolate from this whether installing this lighting system would actually save the hospital money over time.

(I thought of this because I have a pilot study of bright light therapy which found that post-op patients could ambulate 3 days earlier on average and were significantly less likely to get delirious, Taguchi 2007.)

OP (no longer relevant): Will it be a red flag if I say something like this in my PS about my time as a volunteer in the hospital?

"With the staff’s permission, I ask patients if I can turn on their lights during the day for them, explain why this may help them sleep, and empower them to do this for themselves."

My hospital's risk department, which decides what volunteers are allowed to do, has not given an opinion on this. However, I do have permission for this from a senior member of the nursing staff on the Quality Improvement team. In addition, doing this is congruent with my personal ethics. Will ADCOMs think it's ethical?

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[cactusman]

"With the staff’s permission, I ask patients if I can turn on their lights during the day for them, explain why this may help them sleep, and empower them to [turn on a light bulb].

The word "empower" sounds very over dramatic to me. I don't think you would have an issue mentioning this, however, as long as it fits with the rest of the essay.

 

[@Hazel-rah]

The word "empower" sounds very over dramatic to me. I don't think you would have an issue mentioning this, however, as long as it fits with the rest of the essay.

Ha ha, yes if you say empower, it makes it sound like the patients are mice or monkeys or something.

I would definitely mention volunteering if it has to do with your decision to pursue medicine, don't worry too much about risk assessment, volunteer privileges vary widely and turning the lights on is not likely to raise any eyebrows...

 

[Tenk]

I don't think it is a red flag so much as a pretty mundane and boring thing to read about.

 

[ChymeofPassion]

What is unethical about it? Do you think you need a degree to give people advice about sleep lol

 

[jqueb29]

Got to love excessive bureaucracy and hand-wringing about "risks" and "ethics" lol. Obviously risks and ethics need to be considered on many issues, but this is literally asking to turn off light bulbs. Also I would re-phrase your description as others have said. Get "empower" out of there lol.

 

[Prometheus123]

Thank you, everyone, for your feedback.

What is unethical about it? Do you think you need a degree to give people advice about sleep lol

I designed this project because I thought it would be an ethical way for me to contribute to patient care even as a volunteer beyond the typical volunteer duties. Obviously turning on the lights is fine. I also know that conducting my clinical trial of it is fine as I've checked into that extensively with my managers and the IRB. What I wasn't sure about was telling patients about how light affects circadian rhythms and telling them that there's evidence that it may help them sleep. I was worried it could be construed as medical advice. Glad to hear it's not.

Got to love excessive bureaucracy and hand-wringing about "risks" and "ethics" lol. Obviously risks and ethics need to be considered on many issues, but this is literally asking to turn off light bulbs. Also I would re-phrase your description as others have said. Get "empower" out of there lol.

Makes sense. I will remove the word empower (thanks to everyone who pointed this out).


I did not talk about the significance of this intervention because I've been told that medical professionals already know all this. However, while it's true that everyone understands the basic ideas, in my experience, only circadian researchers understand the full significance of it. Would it help at all if I at least hinted at the true significance? Here's a small sample of what I mean:

The circadian clock regulates the expression of at least 15% of the human genome (Lowrey 2011). "The circadian clock has been implicated in the regulation of numerous processes, including metabolism, the cell cycle, cell differentiation, immune responses, redox homeostasis, and tissue repair [via stem cell regulation] (Janich 2014)."

"...circadian and sleep disturbances...may actually drive pathogenesis early in the course of [neurodegenerative] diseases (Musiek 2016)."

"Numerous studies are demonstrating the importance of coherent circadian oscillations for...the timed activation and differentiation of stem and progenitor cells, and how perturbation of this temporal coordination leads to pathologies, including obesity, neurological diseases, ageing and cancer (Janich 2014)."

I also found a study with evidence that even very small, sub-therapeutic increases in daytime light exposure (e.g. turning on the lights) correlates with better sleep and mood in hospital inpatients (Bernhofer 2013). The natural next step is to conduct a clinical trial of turning on the lights as an intervention, which is one of my projects. If it works, it will provide preliminary evidence for causation and a basis for a clinical care recommendation that can be applied safely almost anywhere in the hospital without increasing costs.

I realize this is a very small intervention, but it is non-trivial. I'm not sure I can ethically do anything of much greater significance as a volunteer without a medical license. That's part of why I want to go to medical school.


References:

1. Lowrey PL, Takahashi JS. Genetics of circadian rhythms in Mammalian model organisms. Adv Genet. 2011;74:175-230. doi:10.1016/B978-0-12-387690-4.00006-4.
2. Janich P, Meng Q-J, Benitah SA. Circadian control of tissue homeostasis and adult stem cells. Curr Opin Cell Biol. 2014;31:8-15. doi:10.1016/j.ceb.2014.06.010.
3. Musiek ES, Holtzman DM. Mechanisms linking circadian clocks, sleep, and neurodegeneration. Science (80- ). 2016;354(6315). Mechanisms linking circadian clocks, sleep, and neurodegeneration | Science. Accessed June 16, 2017.
4. Bernhofer EI, Higgins PA, Daly BJ, Burant CJ, Hornick TR. Hospital lighting and its association with sleep, mood and pain in medical inpatients. J Adv Nurs. 2014;70(5):1164-1173. doi:10.1111/jan.12282.

 

[gyngyn]

Thank you, everyone, for your feedback.



I designed this project because I thought it would be an ethical way for me to contribute to patient care even as a volunteer beyond the typical volunteer duties. Obviously turning on the lights is fine. I also know that conducting my clinical trial of it is fine as I've checked into that extensively with my managers and the IRB. What I wasn't sure about was telling patients about how light affects circadian rhythms and telling them that there's evidence that it may help them sleep. I was worried it could be construed as medical advice. Glad to hear it's not.



Makes sense. I will remove the word empower (thanks to everyone who pointed this out).


I did not talk about the significance of this intervention because I've been told that medical professionals already know all this. However, while it's true that everyone understands the basic ideas, in my experience, only circadian researchers understand the full significance of it. Would it help at all if I at least hinted at the true significance? Here's a small sample of what I mean:

The circadian clock regulates the expression of at least 15% of the human genome (Lowrey 2011). "The circadian clock has been implicated in the regulation of numerous processes, including metabolism, the cell cycle, cell differentiation, immune responses, redox homeostasis, and tissue repair [via stem cell regulation] (Janich 2014)."

"...circadian and sleep disturbances...may actually drive pathogenesis early in the course of [neurodegenerative] diseases (Musiek 2016)."

"Numerous studies are demonstrating the importance of coherent circadian oscillations for...the timed activation and differentiation of stem and progenitor cells, and how perturbation of this temporal coordination leads to pathologies, including obesity, neurological diseases, ageing and cancer (Janich 2014)."

I also found a study with evidence that even very small, sub-therapeutic increases in daytime light exposure (e.g. turning on the lights) correlates with better sleep and mood in hospital inpatients (Bernhofer 2013). The natural next step is to conduct a clinical trial of turning on the lights as an intervention, which is one of my projects. If it works, it will provide preliminary evidence for causation and a basis for a clinical care recommendation that can be applied safely almost anywhere in the hospital without increasing costs.

I realize this is a very small intervention, but it is non-trivial. I'm not sure I can ethically do anything of much greater significance as a volunteer without a medical license. That's part of why I want to go to medical school.


References:

1. Lowrey PL, Takahashi JS. Genetics of circadian rhythms in Mammalian model organisms. Adv Genet. 2011;74:175-230. doi:10.1016/B978-0-12-387690-4.00006-4.
2. Janich P, Meng Q-J, Benitah SA. Circadian control of tissue homeostasis and adult stem cells. Curr Opin Cell Biol. 2014;31:8-15. doi:10.1016/j.ceb.2014.06.010.
3. Musiek ES, Holtzman DM. Mechanisms linking circadian clocks, sleep, and neurodegeneration. Science (80- ). 2016;354(6315). Mechanisms linking circadian clocks, sleep, and neurodegeneration | Science. Accessed June 16, 2017.
4. Bernhofer EI, Higgins PA, Daly BJ, Burant CJ, Hornick TR. Hospital lighting and its association with sleep, mood and pain in medical inpatients. J Adv Nurs. 2014;70(5):1164-1173. doi:10.1111/jan.12282.

Remember not to use footnotes in your application (except when indicated for your own publications).

 

[Prometheus123]

Remember not to use footnotes in your application (except when indicated for your own publications).

Thank you for telling me this; it was a question I meant to ask at some point.

It's unfortunate though, because without my citations and my experience gathering them, my most meaningful projects sound like nothing and I have essentially nothing of substance to write in my PS. I can still write about living in India and Dubai, I guess, but I fail to see how that speaks to my suitability for medicine in any meaningful way.

I think I already know the answer to this, but to make sure, what about just inline citations without the full footnote references below, for instance (Bernhofer 2013)? Then I could bring print-outs of the referenced papers to interviews (if I get any)?

 

[gyngyn]

Thank you for telling me this; it was a question I meant to ask at some point.

It's unfortunate though, because without my citations and my experience gathering them, my most meaningful projects sound like nothing and I have essentially nothing of substance to write in my PS. I can still write about living in India and Dubai, I guess, but I fail to see how that speaks to my suitability for medicine in any meaningful way.

I think I already know the answer to this, but to make sure, what about just inline citations without the full footnote references below, for instance (Bernhofer 2013)? Then I could bring print-outs of the referenced papers to interviews (if I get any)?

You are the only reference we need for your own experience of life.
If you bring prints-outs of references for your beliefs, I can save you the expense of application!

 

[Prometheus123]

You are the only reference we need for your own experience of life.
If you bring prints-outs of references for your beliefs, I can save you the expense of application!

Understood. Thank you.

 

[jqueb29]

I did not talk about the significance of this intervention because I've been told that medical professionals already know all this. However, while it's true that everyone understands the basic ideas, in my experience, only circadian researchers understand the full significance of it. Would it help at all if I at least hinted at the true significance? Here's a small sample of what I mean:

The circadian clock regulates the expression of at least 15% of the human genome (Lowrey 2011). "The circadian clock has been implicated in the regulation of numerous processes, including metabolism, the cell cycle, cell differentiation, immune responses, redox homeostasis, and tissue repair [via stem cell regulation] (Janich 2014)."

"...circadian and sleep disturbances...may actually drive pathogenesis early in the course of [neurodegenerative] diseases (Musiek 2016)."

"Numerous studies are demonstrating the importance of coherent circadian oscillations for...the timed activation and differentiation of stem and progenitor cells, and how perturbation of this temporal coordination leads to pathologies, including obesity, neurological diseases, ageing and cancer (Janich 2014)."

I also found a study with evidence that even very small, sub-therapeutic increases in daytime light exposure (e.g. turning on the lights) correlates with better sleep and mood in hospital inpatients (Bernhofer 2013). The natural next step is to conduct a clinical trial of turning on the lights as an intervention, which is one of my projects. If it works, it will provide preliminary evidence for causation and a basis for a clinical care recommendation that can be applied safely almost anywhere in the hospital without increasing costs.

I realize this is a very small intervention, but it is non-trivial. I'm not sure I can ethically do anything of much greater significance as a volunteer without a medical license. That's part of why I want to go to medical school.


References:

1. Lowrey PL, Takahashi JS. Genetics of circadian rhythms in Mammalian model organisms. Adv Genet. 2011;74:175-230. doi:10.1016/B978-0-12-387690-4.00006-4.
2. Janich P, Meng Q-J, Benitah SA. Circadian control of tissue homeostasis and adult stem cells. Curr Opin Cell Biol. 2014;31:8-15. doi:10.1016/j.ceb.2014.06.010.
3. Musiek ES, Holtzman DM. Mechanisms linking circadian clocks, sleep, and neurodegeneration. Science (80- ). 2016;354(6315). Mechanisms linking circadian clocks, sleep, and neurodegeneration | Science. Accessed June 16, 2017.
4. Bernhofer EI, Higgins PA, Daly BJ, Burant CJ, Hornick TR. Hospital lighting and its association with sleep, mood and pain in medical inpatients. J Adv Nurs. 2014;70(5):1164-1173. doi:10.1111/jan.12282.

Lol come on now. Every doctor knows that this can benefit patients, and also you are going to make a poor impression on many adcoms if you treat this as some sort of life changing intervention you are doing for these patients.

 

[eagles22]

Will it be a red flag if I say something like this in my PS about my time as a volunteer in the hospital?

"With the staff’s permission, I ask patients if I can turn on their lights during the day for them, explain why this may help them sleep, and empower them to do this for themselves."

My hospital's risk department, which decides what volunteers are allowed to do, has not given an opinion on this. However, I do have permission for this from a senior member of the nursing staff on the Quality Improvement team. In addition, doing this is congruent with my personal ethics. Will ADCOMs think it's ethical?

You're not performing c-sections in Africa. You'll be fine.

 

[alecseriously]

A+ trolling


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[LizzyM]

Do you have IRB approval of that clinical trial? Will you list it on clinicaltrials.gov? Be careful with doing research on patients. You'll need to have institutional approval of everything you do and you will need to consent the research subjects or get the IRB to agree that you qualify for a waiver of informed consent. It is very hard to do prospective research, particularly with randomization (which is implied in a clinical trial), without the subjects' consent.

 

[Prometheus123]

Do you have IRB approval of that clinical trial? Will you list it on clinicaltrials.gov? Be careful with doing research on patients. You'll need to have institutional approval of everything you do and you will need to consent the research subjects or get the IRB to agree that you qualify for a waiver of informed consent. It is very hard to do prospective research, particularly with randomization (which is implied in a clinical trial), without the subjects' consent.

We have not submitted the IRB docs for approval yet, but I have written all of them, and I have consulted with an IRB analyst extensively about every aspect of the process. For the protocol as it is currently, consent is not necessary as it is considered a minimal risk protocol according to the analyst.

However, based on people's feedback here and elsewhere, I realize I need to stop thinking "what can I do about this as a volunteer," and start thinking "what would I do about this if I were already a doctor?"

Would it sound more impressive in my PS if I adapted the protocol like this? What if we applied for grant funding to install specialized circadian lighting in a few patients' rooms on the units where I volunteer at the hospital? We would then see if post-op recovery patients could ambulate sooner, were any less likely to get delirious, slept better, had better moods, and had shorter hospital stays. We could then extrapolate from this whether installing this lighting system would actually save the hospital money over time.

(I thought of this because I have a pilot study of bright light therapy which found that post-op patients could ambulate 3 days earlier on average and were significantly less likely to get delirious, Taguchi 2007.) I thought of the hospital stay and cost saving outcome measures because the Quality Improvement team on my units is looking for ways to discharge people faster to save money, so it's a priority for us. One of my lab mates just suggested we partner with some people at the Department of Energy to take it in that direction anyway last week, and since my protocol doesn't sound impressive out of context (and I can't include context in my PS), this seems like a natural evolution.

 

[7331poas]

This has to be the dumbest thing I have seen on this site.

You are turning off people's lights. If I was the head nurse and some volunteer walking up to me and asked "excuse me mam, can I turn off lights when people are sleeping?" I would blow an aneurysm.

 

[Prometheus123]

This has to be the dumbest thing I have seen on this site.

You are turning off people's lights. If I was the head nurse and some volunteer walking up to me and asked "excuse me mam, can I turn off lights when people are sleeping?" I would blow an aneurysm.

Great. Would it sound more impressive in my PS if I adapted the protocol like this? What if we applied for grant funding to install specialized circadian lighting in a few patients' rooms on the units where I volunteer at the hospital? We would then see if post-op recovery patients could ambulate sooner, were any less likely to get delirious, slept better, had better moods, and had shorter hospital stays. We could then extrapolate from this whether installing this lighting system would actually save the hospital money over time.

(I thought of this because I have a pilot study of bright light therapy which found that post-op patients could ambulate 3 days earlier on average and were significantly less likely to get delirious, Taguchi 2007.) I thought of the hospital stay and cost saving outcome measures because the Quality Improvement team on my units is looking for ways to discharge people faster to save money, so it's a priority for us. One of my lab mates just suggested we partner with some people at the Department of Energy to take it in that direction anyway last week, and since my protocol doesn't sound impressive out of context (and I can't include context in my PS), this seems like a natural evolution.

 

[LizzyM]

This has to be the dumbest thing I have seen on this site.

You are turning off people's lights. If I was the head nurse and some volunteer walking up to me and asked "excuse me mam, can I turn off lights when people are sleeping?" I would blow an aneurysm.

What was your CARS score....? The OP is turning on the lights in the daytime so that people don't nap and therefore sleep better at night. Not turning the lights off when the patients are sleeping.

Anyway, good to know that the IRB is covered as that could prevent subsequent publication of the work. Getting a grant and doing a pilot would be so cool. The only thing I worry about in the US is that length of stay is already so short that you would need enormous sample size to show an effect -- if there is any effect. We may be discharging patients so quickly that quicker isn't really feasible.

 

[Prometheus123]

What was your CARS score....? The OP is turning on the lights in the daytime so that people don't nap and therefore sleep better at night. Not turning the lights off when the patients are sleeping.

Anyway, good to know that the IRB is covered as that could prevent subsequent publication of the work. Getting a grant and doing a pilot would be so cool. The only thing I worry about in the US is that length of stay is already so short that you would need enormous sample size to show an effect -- if there is any effect. We may be discharging patients so quickly that quicker isn't really feasible.

Good point. You're absolutely right, short stays is an obstacle. I'll take to people on my units about this.

 

[bannie22]

This is awful and I am very concerned for OP. He is either deluded or needs to spend more time at his clinical volunteering position with an clinical assignment rather than fantasizing about turning lights on and off.

Good luck to OP.

 

[Prometheus123]

This is awful and I am very concerned for OP. He is either deluded or needs to spend more time at his clinical volunteering position with an clinical assignment rather than fantasizing about turning lights on and off.

Good luck to OP.

I volunteer clinically working with patients and as part of the care team for a weekly 8 hour double-shift every week. I'm also married to a ENT specialist. Please refer to my most recent post about how I'm adapting the study design. Does that change your impression at all, or is it just that circadian biology doesn't count as medicine according to you?

 

[cactusman]

We have not submitted the IRB docs for approval yet, but I have written all of them, and I have consulted with an IRB analyst extensively about every aspect of the process. For the protocol as it is currently, consent is not necessary as it is considered a minimal risk protocol according to the analyst.

However, based on people's feedback here and elsewhere, I realize I need to stop thinking "what can I do about this as a volunteer," and start thinking "what would I do about this if I were already a doctor?"

Would it sound more impressive in my PS if I adapted the protocol like this? What if we applied for grant funding to install specialized circadian lighting in a few patients' rooms on the units where I volunteer at the hospital? We would then see if post-op recovery patients could ambulate sooner, were any less likely to get delirious, slept better, had better moods, and had shorter hospital stays. We could then extrapolate from this whether installing this lighting system would actually save the hospital money over time.

(I thought of this because I have a pilot study of bright light therapy which found that post-op patients could ambulate 3 days earlier on average and were significantly less likely to get delirious, Taguchi 2007.) I thought of the hospital stay and cost saving outcome measures because the Quality Improvement team on my units is looking for ways to discharge people faster to save money, so it's a priority for us. One of my lab mates just suggested we partner with some people at the Department of Energy to take it in that direction anyway last week, and since my protocol doesn't sound impressive out of context (and I can't include context in my PS), this seems like a natural evolution.

Great. Would it sound more impressive in my PS if I adapted the protocol like this? What if we applied for grant funding to install specialized circadian lighting in a few patients' rooms on the units where I volunteer at the hospital? We would then see if post-op recovery patients could ambulate sooner, were any less likely to get delirious, slept better, had better moods, and had shorter hospital stays. We could then extrapolate from this whether installing this lighting system would actually save the hospital money over time.

(I thought of this because I have a pilot study of bright light therapy which found that post-op patients could ambulate 3 days earlier on average and were significantly less likely to get delirious, Taguchi 2007.) I thought of the hospital stay and cost saving outcome measures because the Quality Improvement team on my units is looking for ways to discharge people faster to save money, so it's a priority for us. One of my lab mates just suggested we partner with some people at the Department of Energy to take it in that direction anyway last week, and since my protocol doesn't sound impressive out of context (and I can't include context in my PS), this seems like a natural evolution.

Sounds like good ideas but the bold text is seriously making this tough to read. When you write that subjects were "less likely to get delirious, slept better, had better moods, and had shorter hospital stays," I end up wondering why "less likely" and "shorter" are in bold, but "better" is in normal text. Sorry for going off-topic, but I've seen you use odd text styling a few times and it just makes it less readable.

 

[SterlingMaloryArcher]

I read this thinking it was years old but realize it's actually happening right now. how interesting.

 

[Gryffindor20]

Thank you, everyone, for your feedback.



I designed this project because I thought it would be an ethical way for me to contribute to patient care even as a volunteer beyond the typical volunteer duties. Obviously turning on the lights is fine. I also know that conducting my clinical trial of it is fine as I've checked into that extensively with my managers and the IRB. What I wasn't sure about was telling patients about how light affects circadian rhythms and telling them that there's evidence that it may help them sleep. I was worried it could be construed as medical advice. Glad to hear it's not.



Makes sense. I will remove the word empower (thanks to everyone who pointed this out).


I did not talk about the significance of this intervention because I've been told that medical professionals already know all this. However, while it's true that everyone understands the basic ideas, in my experience, only circadian researchers understand the full significance of it. Would it help at all if I at least hinted at the true significance? Here's a small sample of what I mean:

The circadian clock regulates the expression of at least 15% of the human genome (Lowrey 2011). "The circadian clock has been implicated in the regulation of numerous processes, including metabolism, the cell cycle, cell differentiation, immune responses, redox homeostasis, and tissue repair [via stem cell regulation] (Janich 2014)."

"...circadian and sleep disturbances...may actually drive pathogenesis early in the course of [neurodegenerative] diseases (Musiek 2016)."

"Numerous studies are demonstrating the importance of coherent circadian oscillations for...the timed activation and differentiation of stem and progenitor cells, and how perturbation of this temporal coordination leads to pathologies, including obesity, neurological diseases, ageing and cancer (Janich 2014)."

I also found a study with evidence that even very small, sub-therapeutic increases in daytime light exposure (e.g. turning on the lights) correlates with better sleep and mood in hospital inpatients (Bernhofer 2013). The natural next step is to conduct a clinical trial of turning on the lights as an intervention, which is one of my projects. If it works, it will provide preliminary evidence for causation and a basis for a clinical care recommendation that can be applied safely almost anywhere in the hospital without increasing costs.

I realize this is a very small intervention, but it is non-trivial. I'm not sure I can ethically do anything of much greater significance as a volunteer without a medical license. That's part of why I want to go to medical school.


References:

1. Lowrey PL, Takahashi JS. Genetics of circadian rhythms in Mammalian model organisms. Adv Genet. 2011;74:175-230. doi:10.1016/B978-0-12-387690-4.00006-4.
2. Janich P, Meng Q-J, Benitah SA. Circadian control of tissue homeostasis and adult stem cells. Curr Opin Cell Biol. 2014;31:8-15. doi:10.1016/j.ceb.2014.06.010.
3. Musiek ES, Holtzman DM. Mechanisms linking circadian clocks, sleep, and neurodegeneration. Science (80- ). 2016;354(6315). Mechanisms linking circadian clocks, sleep, and neurodegeneration | Science. Accessed June 16, 2017.
4. Bernhofer EI, Higgins PA, Daly BJ, Burant CJ, Hornick TR. Hospital lighting and its association with sleep, mood and pain in medical inpatients. J Adv Nurs. 2014;70(5):1164-1173. doi:10.1111/jan.12282.

I don't get the point of this thread. It's fantastic that this volunteer wants to help maximize patients' restful sleep at night, but I feel like the whole "I turned on the lights during the day and saved the world's circadian rhythms" thing is a bit much.

 

[Prometheus123]

Sounds like good ideas but the bold text is seriously making this tough to read. When you write that subjects were "less likely to get delirious, slept better, had better moods, and had shorter hospital stays," I end up wondering why "less likely" and "shorter" are in bold, but "better" is in normal text. Sorry for going off-topic, but I've seen you use odd text styling a few times and it just makes it less readable.

Thanks for the feedback, I will change that.

 

[Prometheus123]

I don't get the point of this thread. It's fantastic that this volunteer wants to help maximize patients' restful sleep at night, but I feel like the whole "I turned on the lights during the day and saved the world's circadian rhythms" thing is a bit much.

Great. Does this change your impression at all? What if instead of the previously mentioned protocol, we applied for grant funding to install specialized circadian lighting in a few patients' rooms on the units where I volunteer at the hospital? We would then see if post-op recovery patients could ambulate sooner, were any less likely to get delirious, slept better, had better moods, or had shorter hospital stays. We could then extrapolate from this whether installing this lighting system would actually save the hospital money over time.

(I thought of this because I have a pilot study of bright light therapy which found that post-op patients could ambulate 3 days earlier on average and were significantly less likely to get delirious, Taguchi 2007.)

 

[Gryffindor20]

Great. Does this change your impression at all? What if instead of the previously mentioned protocol, we applied for grant funding to install specialized circadian lighting in a few patients' rooms on the units where I volunteer at the hospital? We would then see if post-op recovery patients could ambulate sooner, were any less likely to get delirious, slept better, had better moods, or had shorter hospital stays. We could then extrapolate from this whether installing this lighting system would actually save the hospital money over time.

(I thought of this because I have a pilot study of bright light therapy which found that post-op patients could ambulate 3 days earlier on average and were significantly less likely to get delirious, Taguchi 2007.)

I still don't understand. It seemed like you were talking about mentioning this experience in your personal statement. But have you actually applied for a grant? Have you written a proposal? If you have, that changes the story. If you've submitted a proposal for a study on circadian rhythms and have received funding/resources to initiate said study, that would be impressive. Using your personal statement to write what would basically be a mock proposal...would not be impressive and would not be a good idea.

 

[Prometheus123]

I still don't understand. It seemed like you were talking about mentioning this experience in your personal statement. But have you actually applied for a grant? Have you written a proposal? If you have, that changes the story. If you've submitted a proposal for a study on circadian rhythms and have received funding/resources to initiate said study, that would be impressive. Using your personal statement to write what would basically be a mock proposal...would not be impressive and would not be a good idea.

Fair point. At this point, I have the study documents all written for the old protocol, and I've been working with an IRB analyst who has assured me it will get approved once we submit it. I have a meeting today with some colleagues in my PI's circadian lab to iron out the finer points of the protocol before submitting it. As it is, it doesn't require any direct funding.

However, if I change it, I would essentially be starting over. Since I need to submit my PS ASAP, you're right that that doesn't put me in the best position for this cycle.

What if I write the proposal, make sure it's theoretically copacetic, and submit a grant application before submitting my PS and write that I've done that? Would that be a net benefit to my application? One of the post-docs who's helping me with this directly already suggested the kind of change that I'm proposing, so I think the team will like the idea.

 

[Gryffindor20]

Fair point. At this point, I have the study documents all written for the old protocol, and I've been working with an IRB analyst who has assured me it will get approved once we submit it. I have a meeting today with some colleagues in my PI's circadian lab to iron out the finer points of the protocol before submitting it. As it is, it doesn't require any direct funding.

However, if I change it, I would essentially be starting over. Since I need to submit my PS ASAP, you're right that that doesn't put me in the best position for this cycle.

What if I write the proposal, make sure it's theoretically copacetic, and submit a grant application before submitting my PS and write that I've done that? Would that be a net benefit to my application?

You can very briefly mention that you are in the middle of writing a proposal for this study with a very brief overview of the subject matter, but don't go into depth until the proposal has been approved. Otherwise, in my opinion, you'll look like you're trying to embellish a very typical volunteering experience. (It doesn't take a genius to turn lights on and off. It does take some brains, however, to write up an approvable proposal and protocol for a detailed clinical study on the importance of sleep hygiene as it relates to healthy circadian rhythms and healing.)

If you want to submit your application before the proposal has been approved, then you can send an update to medical schools later, with a more detailed description of your study. Getting a new study IRB-approved and funded would most certainly be worthy of its own update!

 

[Prometheus123]

You can very briefly mention that you are in the middle of writing a proposal for this study with a very brief overview of the subject matter, but don't go into depth until the proposal has been approved. Otherwise, in my opinion, you'll look like you're trying to embellish a very typical volunteering experience. (It doesn't take a genius to turn lights on and off. It does take some brains, however, to write up an approvable proposal and protocol for a detailed clinical study on the importance of sleep hygiene as it relates to healthy circadian rhythms and healing.)

If you want to submit your application before the proposal has been approved, then you can send an update to medical schools later, with a more detailed description of your study. Getting a new study IRB-approved and funded would most certainly be worthy of its own update!

Excellent. That is what I will do then. I didn't even know sending an update like that was a possibility. Very good to know!

Thank you all for another exceptionally productive thread!

 

[cactusman]

Excellent. That is what I will do then. I didn't even know sending an update like that was a possibility. Very good to know!

Thank you all for another exceptionally productive thread!

Also check websites in case they have instructions about update letters. I think most take update letters, but I believe Georgetown, for example, asks that all updates are included in the secondary application. Even in this case, if you were approved after sending in a secondary but got an interview invite, that would be another time to bring this up.

 

[wholeheartedly]

Don't worry about the haters. I worked at a major academic center for quite awhile that just within the last couple years instituted quiet time on one of the major floors to help try to improve rest and recovery. Pretty sure they've got a study going on outcomes. Staff like it too.

We all intuitively know sleep is important, but I don't think people realize the full extent it impacts things.

Keep chasing your interests.

 

[Prometheus123]

Also check websites in case they have instructions about update letters. I think most take update letters, but I believe Georgetown, for example, asks that all updates are included in the secondary application. Even in this case, if you were approved after sending in a secondary but got an interview invite, that would be another time to bring this up.

That is good to know, thanks. Well, at the very least, my interview game will have some pleasant surprises. Who knows, maybe that will be enough to tip the scales in my favor in an interview.

Don't worry about that haters. I worked at a major academic center for quite awhile that just within the last couple years instituted quiet time on one of the major floors to help try to improve rest and recovery. Pretty sure they've got a study going on outcomes. Staff like it too.

We all intuitively know sleep is important, but I don't think people realize the full extent it impacts things.

Keep chasing your interests.

Thank you, I really appreciate that. Yes, ultimately, it's not just about impressing ADCOMs, it's also just genuinely exciting and important to me personally, so I'll keep at it. Also, to be honest, I kind of enjoy overcoming the endless obstacles on this path. It's very satisfying.

 

[eagles22]

Mbuto, pass me another light switch. This one is off already....

 

[Gryffindor20]

Mbuto, pass me another light switch. This one is off already....

Yes, Sahib.

 

[SterlingMaloryArcher]

"With the staff’s permission, I ask patients if I can turn on their lights during the day for them, explain why this may help them sleep, and empower them to do this for themselves."

"With the staff's permission, I asked patients if I could turn on their lights during the day, explained why this may help with their sleep, and encouraged them to do this on their own."

 

[Prometheus123]

"With the staff's permission, I asked patients if I could turn on their lights during the day, explained why this may help with their sleep, and encouraged them to do this on their own."

I can tell this sounds better, but is it acceptable/worthwhile to say in the PS in this form?

 

[Prometheus123]

Mbuto, pass me another light switch. This one is off already....

You should really save this joke for when I break out my stories of gratuitous poverty in India.

 

[SterlingMaloryArcher]

I can tell this sounds better, but is it acceptable/worthwhile to say in the PS in this form?

I don't think you should put in in your personal statement at all unless it leads to something huge making it the highlight of your premedical journey/compounded why you want to be a physician. I'd make it an activity.