Official Rank List Thread 2008-2009

[CanIMakeIt]

Greeting everyone. I would appreciate anyone's thoughts on my preliminary rank list. Especially any insights pro/con on the programs I have higher up.

I think I'm pretty set on my #1 choice of Hopkins, but after that I'm really conflicted. My choices are all over the place geographically and in terms of perceived reputation. I'm interested in Cardiology in the future but also considering general internal medicine (I'm interested in Public Health/Health Policy issues). I've sort of been forced to be geographically open since my better quality choices aren't in the best cities (I didn't get interviews at the heavy hitters in Cali/NY/Boston!) so program quality/impact on career prospects are my main criteria.

Cheers!

Johns Hopkins Hospital
Emory = Wash U (Cards at both programs is strong and both like to take their own ... i would rank based on where you got better feel ... or Atlanta Vs St louis ... I personally wouldn't want to be in Altanta)
Vanderbilt (IM strong .. not sure how cards there is)
UNC (like to take their own .... good clinical cards training ... opps for research if u want)
Pittsburgh
Montefiore
Case Western -Univ Hospital
Boston Univ
Cedars-Sinai
Cleveland Clinic
Thomas Jefferson
Temple
Tufts
USC

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[aingeal]

alphabetical
GI

albert einstein/monte
drexel
duke
georgetown
mt sinai
nyu
temple
thomas jefferson
UMD
UPMC Pitt
UVa
yale

 

[Miradautas Vras]

Any ideas here about various UMDNJs? I am pretty sure abt. my ranklist except for the UMDNJs. I interviewed at both UMDNJ RWJMS Camden and UMDNJ-Newark. Newark was a much bigger program but I found Camden quite cozy [I mean Cooper, not the city!!] and fellowship prospects rather better. They have 15 cat spots and 22 fellows incl 5 card+ 4 GI I guess. dunno whether they prefer their own though and the place, despite of the commute option from Philly, is still a bit concerning., not that I have many options though ; IMG with MPH [epidemiology]. Future fellow plan is either Cards or Pulm/CC. Any insights?

 

[CanIMakeIt]

alphabetical
GI

Sinai/Duke/Yale
UPMC = UVa
Monte
NYU
UMD

then the rest

drexel
georgetown
temple
thomas jefferson

 

[bbtbay]

This process has been very flattering, and I am very grateful for the choices that I have. I know I can be happy at most of my programs, but was still wondering what you all thought...I like being in a city-type atmosphere, and I want to do GI.

ucsf
uchicago
northwestern
ucla
stanford
cornell
mt. sinai
bidmc
uwashington
michigan
cedars
ucsd
ucla-harbor
cal pacific
uc davis

 

[mem141]

This process has been very flattering, and I am very grateful for the choices that I have. I know I can be happy at most of my programs, but was still wondering what you all thought...I like being in a city-type atmosphere, and I want to do GI.

ucsf
uchicago
northwestern
ucla
stanford
cornell
mt. sinai
bidmc
uwashington
michigan
cedars
ucsd
ucla-harbor
cal pacific
uc davis

for the programs i know, maybe
UCSF
UW
UChicago/BIDMC
UCSD/Michigan
UCLA
NW
.
.
.
Stanford (beautiful area, but you said you'd like to be in a city)

but I bet you'd get a great fellowship out of any of those

 

[MedPassion]

t

 

[orientedtoself]

This process has been very flattering, and I am very grateful for the choices that I have. I know I can be happy at most of my programs, but was still wondering what you all thought...I like being in a city-type atmosphere, and I want to do GI.

ucsf
uchicago
northwestern
ucla
stanford
cornell
mt. sinai
bidmc
uwashington
michigan
cedars
ucsd
ucla-harbor
cal pacific
uc davis

ucsf/ ucla/ michigan/ stanford/ u washington
bid/ ucsd
cornell/ u chicago/ northwestern

 

[CanIMakeIt]

This process has been very flattering, and I am very grateful for the choices that I have. I know I can be happy at most of my programs, but was still wondering what you all thought...I like being in a city-type atmosphere, and I want to do GI.

ucsf / uchicago / UCLA / Mich / Mt Sinai (Dr Crohn was here, wasn't he?) /
BIDMC
Cornell

then the rest
northwestern
stanford
uwashington
cedars
ucsd

 

[worrywort]

Interested in GI:
Mt. Sinai, Yale, Cedars,
BU, NYU, Brown

Any opinions about these programs? pros/cons?
Any input would be appreciated! Thanks.

 

[CanIMakeIt]

I have put some thought into ROL and this is my prelim list (subject to change) ... interested in Cards + International Health:

1. Duke (I have been told not to put Duke #1 due to them not matching last year and so my academic advisers were a little worried about quality of residents they got from scramble ... any opinions????)
2. WashU
3. UTSW
4. OHSU
5. UW - Categorical
6. UNC
7. Baylor- Houston
8. UW - Primary Care
9. Mayo-Rochester
10. UC-Davis
11. Harbor-UCLA
12. Tulane

 

[CanIMakeIt]

Interested in GI:
Mt. Sinai, Yale, Cedars,
BU, NYU, Brown

Any opinions about these programs? pros/cons?
Any input would be appreciated! Thanks.

I would go with Yale or Mt Sinai as top choices ... depending on your preference of living (NYC vs new haven) followed by Cedars, NYU, Brown, BU

 

[drjitsu]

1. Duke (I have been told not to put Duke #1 due to them not matching last year and so my academic advisers were a little worried about quality of residents they got from scramble ... any opinions????)

I had the same concern, but after visiting Duke, their interns were some of the clinically strongest on the trail, and I went to all the big places. I believe Duke is making extraordinary doctors out of all their residents. Duke is one of those places: regardless of the starting ingredients, the final product is going to be great.

Just a note: it seems that Duke is one of the "love em or hate em" institutions in academic circles. Some of my advisers were telling me how "malignant" the program is; a vibe I didn't get at all when visiting. So, I think it's reasonable to consider what the advisers are saying, but after the interview day, it's all you.

You gotta follow your gut. If Duke is going to get you where you want to go, and you feel like your ideals match those of the program and the current house staff, there's no reason not to train there.

 

[Friendly]

1. Johns Hopkins Hospital. Most autonomy early one, and down-to-earth style.
2. MGH. Special people, and great support network. A real family feel to it Strong e-mail from interview panel.
3. NYPH-Cornell. Strong training, and most supportive ancillary staff in NYC, IMHO. Highly ranked call.
4. University of Rochester. Special people, and most supportive out there, amazingly strong research. Nicest program director. Strong personal letter.
5. Vanderbilt. Amazing people; rigor of internship most severe on my list (only second to Hopkins), and SMART residents. Ranked in first group e-mail.
6. Emory. Amazing five hospital training, nice people. No permanent program director, and 80 interns seems too much.
7. Dartmouth. Great, unique training, but too weak in basic research, and far too remote.
8. BIDMC. Nicest people out there, but too much hand-holding, and weak basic research (strong clinical research). Ranked to match e-mail.
9. Yale. Best interview show, but I perceive disorganization and too laid-back; some SMART residents, some not impressive at all.
10. University of Maryland. Program director said they don't match many people from my school...down the list you go, UMD.


No more changes. My first four were hard to finalize. If I get any of my top five, I will be delighted. If I don't get my top three, I honestly don't care, and I won't be shedding any tears. This is because it has been a massive privilege to interview with all of these programs, and they are ALL excellent. My criteria were: 1) supportive environment with nice people; 2) excellent basic medicine training; 3) basic research capabilities.

I could give a rip about fellowship match rates or perceived prestige (if the latter was emphasized to me, it put me right off the program). My comments are only my own experiences on interview day and perceptions (confirmed by authoritative sources before making my list) and will obviously differ from other interviewees, so no complaining or flaming please, and I won't be justifying any of my choices or comments to anyone, because they are final and I want this over with. I'm a very average person who works hard, loves medicine, and I usually interview pretty well.

Folks, please take the "ranked to match" etc. e-mails and calls with a grain of salt. It really means nothing other than you had a strong interview and they perceive you not to be a troublemaker (critical because they are stuck with you for years!). Most of the organized programs don't play games; they just want decent human beings who work hard, and it's not quite as 'cloak and dagger' and this board makes it out to be.

Lastly, choose where you will be happiest - nobody on this board can do that for you. Good luck in the match!

 

[orientedtoself]

I have put some thought into ROL and this is my prelim list (subject to change) ... interested in Cards + International Health:

1. Duke (I have been told not to put Duke #1 due to them not matching last year and so my academic advisers were a little worried about quality of residents they got from scramble ... any opinions????)
2. WashU
3. UTSW
4. OHSU
5. UW - Categorical
6. UNC
7. Baylor- Houston
8. UW - Primary Care
9. Mayo-Rochester
10. UC-Davis
11. Harbor-UCLA
12. Tulane

wash u/ uw-seattle/ duke/ utsw are all great programs, you should have no problem getting a fellowship coming from those programs. rank based on how well you think you would fit in with the residents and where you want to live for the next 3-6 years of your life (in case you stay for fellowship)

 

[Reddpoint]

I had the same concern, but after visiting Duke, their interns were some of the clinically strongest on the trail, and I went to all the big places. I believe Duke is making extraordinary doctors out of all their residents. Duke is one of those places: regardless of the starting ingredients, the final product is going to be great.

Just a note: it seems that Duke is one of the "love em or hate em" institutions in academic circles. Some of my advisers were telling me how "malignant" the program is; a vibe I didn't get at all when visiting. So, I think it's reasonable to consider what the advisers are saying, but after the interview day, it's all you.

You gotta follow your gut. If Duke is going to get you where you want to go, and you feel like your ideals match those of the program and the current house staff, there's no reason not to train there.

It seems that Duke really acquired the bad rep which may have lead to the big scramble last year. However there is nothing like scrambling for 10 interns to make a program take notice of its reputation. After changing their schedule around I would say Duke is now the most cush "top" program that I know of. q5 with 24 hour call! Plus one half of the intern year is at the VA which is normally a much slower pace. Duke was a very impressive program and I would not worry about the last year scramble because most residents will rise to the caliber of their peers.

I would always take advisors input with a grain of salt. They are really that tuned into the life of residents unless they are a PD. My guess is that they are telling you the reputation of the school from when they were residents.

 

[BaylorLion]

I would agree with Reddpoint's estimation re: Duke having the most cush intern year of any of the top programs. I'm not at Duke, but as I've said before, *if* the changes it's making work, it will be a great place to be for intern year. And every top program has its share of people who are going to be "mean" - if you get more than your fair share, it becomes malignant. Go to the location you'll be happiest at and wherever you perceive the chairman and PD to be ones who'll fight for their residents to get the fellowships they want (and obviously, if you like the location, if the fellowship program of your choice at that institution like to take their own, its a bonus).

 

[worrywort]

I would go with Yale or Mt Sinai as top choices ... depending on your preference of living (NYC vs new haven) followed by Cedars, NYU, Brown, BU

I'm having trouble with ranking Yale vs. Cedars-Sinai. According to USNews, Cedars-Sinai seems to have a better ranking (top ten) than Yale in GI, but how come it seems downplayed in many of the GI rankings in this thread? Is the concern that IM training is better at Yale than Cedars, but GI fellowship is better at Cedars than Yale? Thanks.

 

[orientedtoself]

I'm having trouble with ranking Yale vs. Cedars-Sinai. According to USNews, Cedars-Sinai seems to have a better ranking (top ten) than Yale in GI, but how come it seems downplayed in many of the GI rankings in this thread? Is the concern that IM training is better at Yale than Cedars, but GI fellowship is better at Cedars than Yale? Thanks.

yale. period.

 

[BGriffin]

This process has been very flattering, and I am very grateful for the choices that I have. I know I can be happy at most of my programs, but was still wondering what you all thought...I like being in a city-type atmosphere, and I want to do GI.

ucsf
uwashington
ucla

bidmc
uchicago
northwestern
cornell
mt. sinai

[these 3 are very good, but I moved them down b/c you want to live in a big city]
stanford
ucsd
michigan

cedars
ucla-harbor
cal pacific
uc davis

 

[BGriffin]

Let's be honest here. You could not have gotten about half of these interviews if you were truly average. You could just say that you work hard, love medicine, etc. Congrats on a nice looking list though.

1. Johns Hopkins Hospital. Most autonomy early one, and down-to-earth style.
2. MGH. Special people, and great support network. A real family feel to it Strong e-mail from interview panel.
3. NYPH-Cornell. Strong training, and most supportive ancillary staff in NYC, IMHO. Highly ranked call.
4. University of Rochester. Special people, and most supportive out there, amazingly strong research. Nicest program director. Strong personal letter.
5. Vanderbilt. Amazing people; rigor of internship most severe on my list (only second to Hopkins), and SMART residents. Ranked in first group e-mail.
6. Emory. Amazing five hospital training, nice people. No permanent program director, and 80 interns seems too much.
7. Dartmouth. Great, unique training, but too weak in basic research, and far too remote.
8. BIDMC. Nicest people out there, but too much hand-holding, and weak basic research (strong clinical research). Ranked to match e-mail.
9. Yale. Best interview show, but I perceive disorganization and too laid-back; some SMART residents, some not impressive at all.
10. University of Maryland. Program director said they don't match many people from my school...down the list you go, UMD.


No more changes. My first four were hard to finalize. If I get any of my top five, I will be delighted. If I don't get my top three, I honestly don't care, and I won't be shedding any tears. This is because it has been a massive privilege to interview with all of these programs, and they are ALL excellent. My criteria were: 1) supportive environment with nice people; 2) excellent basic medicine training; 3) basic research capabilities.

I could give a rip about fellowship match rates or perceived prestige (if the latter was emphasized to me, it put me right off the program). My comments are only my own experiences on interview day and perceptions (confirmed by authoritative sources before making my list) and will obviously differ from other interviewees, so no complaining or flaming please, and I won't be justifying any of my choices or comments to anyone, because they are final and I want this over with. I'm a very average person who works hard, loves medicine, and I usually interview pretty well.

Folks, please take the "ranked to match" etc. e-mails and calls with a grain of salt. It really means nothing other than you had a strong interview and they perceive you not to be a troublemaker (critical because they are stuck with you for years!). Most of the organized programs don't play games; they just want decent human beings who work hard, and it's not quite as 'cloak and dagger' and this board makes it out to be.

Lastly, choose where you will be happiest - nobody on this board can do that for you. Good luck in the match!

 

[BaylorLion]

1. Johns Hopkins Hospital. Most autonomy early one, and down-to-earth style.
2. MGH. Special people, and great support network. A real family feel to it Strong e-mail from interview panel.
3. NYPH-Cornell. Strong training, and most supportive ancillary staff in NYC, IMHO. Highly ranked call.
4. University of Rochester. Special people, and most supportive out there, amazingly strong research. Nicest program director. Strong personal letter.
5. Vanderbilt. Amazing people; rigor of internship most severe on my list (only second to Hopkins), and SMART residents. Ranked in first group e-mail.
6. Emory. Amazing five hospital training, nice people. No permanent program director, and 80 interns seems too much.
7. Dartmouth. Great, unique training, but too weak in basic research, and far too remote.
8. BIDMC. Nicest people out there, but too much hand-holding, and weak basic research (strong clinical research). Ranked to match e-mail.
9. Yale. Best interview show, but I perceive disorganization and too laid-back; some SMART residents, some not impressive at all.
10. University of Maryland. Program director said they don't match many people from my school...down the list you go, UMD.


No more changes. My first four were hard to finalize. If I get any of my top five, I will be delighted. If I don't get my top three, I honestly don't care, and I won't be shedding any tears. This is because it has been a massive privilege to interview with all of these programs, and they are ALL excellent. My criteria were: 1) supportive environment with nice people; 2) excellent basic medicine training; 3) basic research capabilities.

I could give a rip about fellowship match rates or perceived prestige (if the latter was emphasized to me, it put me right off the program). My comments are only my own experiences on interview day and perceptions (confirmed by authoritative sources before making my list) and will obviously differ from other interviewees, so no complaining or flaming please, and I won't be justifying any of my choices or comments to anyone, because they are final and I want this over with. I'm a very average person who works hard, loves medicine, and I usually interview pretty well.

Folks, please take the "ranked to match" etc. e-mails and calls with a grain of salt. It really means nothing other than you had a strong interview and they perceive you not to be a troublemaker (critical because they are stuck with you for years!). Most of the organized programs don't play games; they just want decent human beings who work hard, and it's not quite as 'cloak and dagger' and this board makes it out to be.

Lastly, choose where you will be happiest - nobody on this board can do that for you. Good luck in the match!

I am not cruel enough to suggest changes to someone's list in mid-February, and I think your list looks just fine. I just wanted to clarify that Vanderbilt intern year has *9* call months (10 only if you are a prelim) - you get 2 weeks of scheduled vacation (plus 1 for Christmas or New Year's), 2 weeks of Neuro, 4 weeks of ER, 4 weeks of clinic.

 

[Friendly]

I am not cruel enough to suggest changes to someone's list in mid-February, and I think your list looks just fine. I just wanted to clarify that Vanderbilt intern year has *9* call months (10 only if you are a prelim) - you get 2 weeks of scheduled vacation (plus 1 for Christmas or New Year's), 2 weeks of Neuro, 4 weeks of ER, 4 weeks of clinic.

...and that's why I think it's severe. Brilliant people at Vandy, though.

 

[CanIMakeIt]

I had the same concern, but after visiting Duke, their interns were some of the clinically strongest on the trail, and I went to all the big places. I believe Duke is making extraordinary doctors out of all their residents. Duke is one of those places: regardless of the starting ingredients, the final product is going to be great.

Just a note: it seems that Duke is one of the "love em or hate em" institutions in academic circles. Some of my advisers were telling me how "malignant" the program is; a vibe I didn't get at all when visiting. So, I think it's reasonable to consider what the advisers are saying, but after the interview day, it's all you.

You gotta follow your gut. If Duke is going to get you where you want to go, and you feel like your ideals match those of the program and the current house staff, there's no reason not to train there.

Thanks for your input drjitsu, orientedtoself, reddpoint, baylorlion

Yeah .. Initially I was going to put it #2 based on these concerns but after visiting there and talking to the residents, I was sure I want to end up there. So decided to put it #1. Great felowship match, International health program, overall a great place to be at ... I hope they will have me ... I have already sent them "you are my #1" letter.

I am pretty sure there will be no changes to this list .. but we will see ... I still have few more days to play around with .... but as of now this list is certified.

 

[CanIMakeIt]

yale. period.

I agree. Yale has a bigger name overall and in case you change your mind, Yale name/training can still carry you there....

Re: Cedars, they usually don't take their own for Cards but I am not too sure about GI

 

[drfunktacular]

Just a note: it seems that Duke is one of the "love em or hate em" institutions in academic circles. Some of my advisers were telling me how "malignant" the program is; a vibe I didn't get at all when visiting. So, I think it's reasonable to consider what the advisers are saying, but after the interview day, it's all you.

I think a lot of that malignant reputation comes from past practices. An older internist I talked to said when he interviewed at Duke they still had q2 call, and all the interns on the team he rounded with during his interview day were sleeping through the attending rambling on about Bartter's syndrome. What's the point of having some famous nephrologist for an attending if you're too overworked to pay attention? Needless to say, I think they've made many many changes since then (~70's-80's).

 

[CANE4LIFE]

Please Help me rank, Prefer NYC, somewhat interested in Cards but more importantly in the overall quality of program (Supportive, friendly, academics etc...)

Columbia
Mt Sinai
Cornell
BIDMC
Yale
Uchicago
UCLA
Northwestern

 

[orientedtoself]

Please Help me rank, Prefer NYC, somewhat interested in Cards but more importantly in the overall quality of program (Supportive, friendly, academics etc...)

Columbia
Mt Sinai
Cornell
BIDMC
Yale
Uchicago
UCLA
Northwestern

columbia
ucla
cornell/ bid
yale/ u chicago/ northwestern

but you need to choose where you think you would be the happiest, and where the program can take you where you want to go. you shouldn't have a problem getting a fellowship from any of those programs.

 

[Brian Griffin]

Any thoughts/opinions on University of Pittsburgh (UPMC) vs. Tufts?

Those programs are in my top two, and I'm still not sure which will be number one. I see advantages and disadvantages of living in both Pittsburgh and Boston (when considering cost of living, proximity to family/friends, fun factor, etc). Fellowship placement is not really a priority issue for me (I'm interested in general medicine, or if anything, maybe endocrine or rheum).

I'd really appreciate some feedback!

 

[caligold]

Hi,

Interested in cards longterm. Have read a bunch of comments on sdn threads about individual programs, but still posting for more input!

UCLA and Stanford - seems equivalent reputation-wise, residents at both seemed happy and competent, despite what is written on sdn based on call schedule, wouldn't it be a ?harder intern year at Stanford (q6 vs. q4), both excellent fellowship placement, different hospital populations (UCLA main hospital + Satellite, Stanford has that + VA), comes down to difference in program feel with UCLA being larger facility/program...

Comments appreciated. Thanks.

 

[bbs09]

Hi,

Interested in cards longterm. Have read a bunch of comments on sdn threads about individual programs, but still posting for more input!

UCLA and Stanford - seems equivalent reputation-wise, residents at both seemed happy and competent, despite what is written on sdn based on call schedule, wouldn't it be a ?harder intern year at Stanford (q6 vs. q4), both excellent fellowship placement, different hospital populations (UCLA main hospital + Satellite, Stanford has that + VA), comes down to difference in program feel with UCLA being larger facility/program...

Comments appreciated. Thanks.

I've heard the Stanford programs VA is getting slammed as a result of the economic downturn, but I'm sure it's happening at all VAs. With fellowship plans, I would go for UCLA because it seems UCLA programs like their own, and you'll have many options coming from UCLA (UCLA, Cedars, Harbor, etc), whereas it doesn't even seem like Stanford likes to take their own for fellowships...

 

[IMdilemma]

Hi,

Interested in cards longterm. Have read a bunch of comments on sdn threads about individual programs, but still posting for more input!

UCLA and Stanford - seems equivalent reputation-wise, residents at both seemed happy and competent, despite what is written on sdn based on call schedule, wouldn't it be a ?harder intern year at Stanford (q6 vs. q4), both excellent fellowship placement, different hospital populations (UCLA main hospital + Satellite, Stanford has that + VA), comes down to difference in program feel with UCLA being larger facility/program...

Comments appreciated. Thanks.

you can't really go wrong with either. before interviewing, i thought i'd like stanford better, but when i actually looked at both programs, i was more impressed with UCLA. i thought the clinical training at UCLA was broader, the call schedule nicer, the city better than palo alto, and i thought that despite the size of the UCLA program, the residents were a very friendly and tight knit group. either way, it sounds like you'll end up at a great program.

 

[CanIMakeIt]

Hi,

Interested in cards longterm. Have read a bunch of comments on sdn threads about individual programs, but still posting for more input!

UCLA and Stanford - seems equivalent reputation-wise, residents at both seemed happy and competent, despite what is written on sdn based on call schedule, wouldn't it be a ?harder intern year at Stanford (q6 vs. q4), both excellent fellowship placement, different hospital populations (UCLA main hospital + Satellite, Stanford has that + VA), comes down to difference in program feel with UCLA being larger facility/program...

Comments appreciated. Thanks.

I would go with UCLA as number 1 as well for the reason already mentioned .... for me the only plus for stanford would be palo alto.. well i not a large city person ... but if it were my choice .. i would still put UCLA #1

 

[phishman10]

I have been working on my rank list and can't decide between these two programs for my number 2 and 3 spot. I am interested in Heme/Onc, and am concerned that UVa does not have Bone Marrow transplant currently. I really enjoyed both cities. Haven't heard much disscussion about these programs specifically on this board and any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance

 

[error404]

Just a note: it seems that Duke is one of the "love em or hate em" institutions in academic circles. Some of my advisers were telling me how "malignant" the program is; a vibe I didn't get at all when visiting.

Duke *used* to have some fairly malignant tendencies-- and has spent many, many years working to get rid of them (and their reputation) on the medicine side. At my interview there, they very openly addressed why they had not matched, as well as the quality of the residents they got through the scramble (whose board scores were just as high as the ones on the rank list.) Program seems incredibly supportive of its residents.

Did a rotation there. Very happy people. Didn't see any of the malignancy people talk about.

 

[MKKJ20]

I loved both of these programs on my interview; don't know which one to rank higher; I am interested in leaving the option open for fellowships; which place would put me in a better position for that?

 

[orientedtoself]

At my interview there, they very openly addressed why they had not matched, as well as the quality of the residents they got through the scramble (whose board scores were just as high as the ones on the rank list.) .

well, of course they're going to say they got a bunch of great residents in the scramble. what are they going to say- "actually, unfortunately we got a bunch of losers"? didn't they scramble 12 or 13 spots? i have heard of scrambling 3 spots, not 13. what happened?

 

[Friendly]

Let's be honest here. You could not have gotten about half of these interviews if you were truly average. You could just say that you work hard, love medicine, etc.

"Let's be honest here"? I had around average scores in MSI/MSII and Step 1, I performed well in MSIII and I had a lot of research. Like I said, I work hard, I like the field, and I tend to interview well, so don't be putting words in my mouth. I'm pretty average, but that doesn't mean you have to like it...

 

[ranmyaku]

"Let's be honest here"? I had around average scores in MSI/MSII and Step 1, I performed well in MSIII and I had a lot of research. Like I said, I work hard, I like the field, and I tend to interview well, so don't be putting words in my mouth. I'm pretty average, but that doesn't mean you have to like it...

I have everything you stated and I only got 1 (of 7) interviews at all those places you got. I guess I am truly average.

I guess it depends on what you mean by 'around average.' If you got >230 step I it is not around average.

 

[drfunktacular]

"Let's be honest here"? I had around average scores in MSI/MSII and Step 1, I performed well in MSIII and I had a lot of research. Like I said, I work hard, I like the field, and I tend to interview well, so don't be putting words in my mouth. I'm pretty average, but that doesn't mean you have to like it...

I won't harp on it because that would be tedious and it's just not that big a deal.

That said: I would imagine you are at a UCSF/Stanford/UCLA-level med school, which is not average, particularly in a field like IM where pedigree counts for a lot. Also, more than cursory research is not average for an IM applicant.

You can, of course, describe yourself however you like, but it is disingenuous for someone with a ROL including most/all of the elite IM programs to say they are "nothing special". If they're interviewing every "average" Joe, they wouldn't be elite, would they?

 

[BGriffin]

"Let's be honest here"? I had around average scores in MSI/MSII and Step 1, I performed well in MSIII and I had a lot of research. Like I said, I work hard, I like the field, and I tend to interview well, so don't be putting words in my mouth. I'm pretty average, but that doesn't mean you have to like it...

Perhaps our definitions of the word average don't coincide. Average to me would indicate that about half the people are better applicants than you, half are worse. Places like Hopkins and MGH are not going to invite applicants who are average in all respects to interview, there are simply too many excellent applicants to do so.

Your paper application must have some above average aspects, like your research and your MS3 grades. Your PS was probably very well written. The MS3 grades are frequently cited as very important factors in granting interviews, so I suspect you honored your medicine clerkship and sub-i or at the very least, many of your clinical rotations. This is not average. Therefore, I don't think it is accurate to say that you are an average applicant as a whole, despite average board scores (which aren't critical to IM) and first/second yr grades (pretty much not important unless you failed).

 

[dreamfox]

k, lets focus on helping each other with rank lists, etc. i think we can all agree that this process has been somewhat flattering.

 

[Friendly]

I won't harp on it because that would be tedious and it's just not that big a deal.

That said: I would imagine you are at a UCSF/Stanford/UCLA-level med school, which is not average, particularly in a field like IM where pedigree counts for a lot. Also, more than cursory research is not average for an IM applicant.

Ok, I take it back. Perhaps I overlooked pedigree and tend to live in a world of my own regarding self-perceived abilities. We are fortunate, as I have emphasized. Thanks, good luck to all, and carry on...

 

[cgk]

Perhaps our definitions of the word average don't coincide. Average to me would indicate that about half the people are better applicants than you, half are worse. Places like Hopkins and MGH are not going to invite applicants who are average in all respects to interview, there are simply too many excellent applicants to do so.

Your paper application must have some above average aspects, like your research and your MS3 grades. Your PS was probably very well written. The MS3 grades are frequently cited as very important factors in granting interviews, so I suspect you honored your medicine clerkship and sub-i or at the very least, many of your clinical rotations. This is not average. Therefore, I don't think it is accurate to say that you are an average applicant as a whole, despite average board scores (which aren't critical to IM) and first/second yr grades (pretty much not important unless you failed).

I'm a MSIII who was thinking about pursuing an IM residency. However I was hoping to match into a top tier program until I hit a brick wall in my clerkships this year. From what you describe, the aspects of my record that are above average aren't as important as the aspects that are average. Briefly my record: 265 on Step I, tons of research including a 2 year stint at the NCI yielding a first authorship in the Journal of Clinical Oncology,Preclinical Grades- almost all Honors, Clerkship grades thusfar, Peds-Pass, Surgery-Pass, Family Medicine-Honors ( at my school, the grading is so random-errr!) The last three months of my MSIII will be my Medicine rotation that I have already been informed by others is almost impossible to Honor. In your honest opinion what do you think my chances will be next year to match into a "top tier" IM program?- Thanks for your time.

 

[muscles]

great.

 

[drfunktacular]

I'm a MSIII who was thinking about pursuing an IM residency. However I was hoping to match into a top tier program until I hit a brick wall in my clerkships this year. From what you describe, the aspects of my record that are above average aren't as important as the aspects that are average. Briefly my record: 265 on Step I, tons of research including a 2 year stint at the NCI yielding a first authorship in the Journal of Clinical Oncology,Preclinical Grades- almost all Honors, Clerkship grades thusfar, Peds-Pass, Surgery-Pass, Family Medicine-Honors ( at my school, the grading is so random-errr!) The last three months of my MSIII will be my Medicine rotation that I have already been informed by others is almost impossible to Honor. In your honest opinion what do you think my chances will be next year to match into a "top tier" IM program?- Thanks for your time.

You see, when you're above average and call yourself average, all the gunners start to freak out.

 

[jdh71]

I'm a MSIII who was thinking about pursuing an IM residency. However I was hoping to match into a top tier program until I hit a brick wall in my clerkships this year. From what you describe, the aspects of my record that are above average aren't as important as the aspects that are average. Briefly my record: 265 on Step I, tons of research including a 2 year stint at the NCI yielding a first authorship in the Journal of Clinical Oncology,Preclinical Grades- almost all Honors, Clerkship grades thusfar, Peds-Pass, Surgery-Pass, Family Medicine-Honors ( at my school, the grading is so random-errr!) The last three months of my MSIII will be my Medicine rotation that I have already been informed by others is almost impossible to Honor. In your honest opinion what do you think my chances will be next year to match into a "top tier" IM program?- Thanks for your time.

you have no chance

I would start talking to PDs at some nice community programs - your chances for academic medicine are gone

 

[sluggo]

CGK-- you might want to think about doing family practice as an alternative

 

[BGriffin]

I'm a MSIII who was thinking about pursuing an IM residency. However I was hoping to match into a top tier program until I hit a brick wall in my clerkships this year. From what you describe, the aspects of my record that are above average aren't as important as the aspects that are average. Briefly my record: 265 on Step I, tons of research including a 2 year stint at the NCI yielding a first authorship in the Journal of Clinical Oncology,Preclinical Grades- almost all Honors, Clerkship grades thusfar, Peds-Pass, Surgery-Pass, Family Medicine-Honors ( at my school, the grading is so random-errr!) The last three months of my MSIII will be my Medicine rotation that I have already been informed by others is almost impossible to Honor. In your honest opinion what do you think my chances will be next year to match into a "top tier" IM program?- Thanks for your time.

I'm assuming this is a serious post. I'm not a PD at MGH, so I can't tell you your chances. All you can do is your best during your rotations and hope your attendings give you good grades. Try to go the extra mile and bring in relevant papers and give mini-lectures for the other students/interns if you can (on top of knowing all the details of your patients, and having your presentations be as polished as possible). Outside of this, apply to the "top programs" and see what happens, knowing that you tried your best.

 

[phishman10]

I would have to agree with BGriffin on this, worry about the things you can actually control and hope for the best. The whole process can be stressful, especially the subjective nature of the 3rd year, but it all works out. Most people from american medical schools do very well matching in internal medicine and you have great scores on Step 1 with extensive research. Also, I know of some people with poor clerkship grades who got some big interviews with that level of research.

On another note, my rank list needs to be certified within the week and i still can not decide on how to rank UVa vs UNC. Any thoughts/help would be greatly appreciated.