Official Eternal IM WAMC Thread

[235009]

Hi - Thank you for your response. I had my stats quoted: School: lower-tier MD on east coast. Top quartile of class, 3.8 GPA. AOA unsure but let's say no just in case.
Step 1: 224
Step2cs/ck: Haven't taken yet
m3 grades: H in IM
LOR: Haven't decided who to pick yet. The chair of my home internal medicine program said he would be willing to write me one for sure which was nice.
research: 2-3 case reports, 2-3 retrospective cohort studies, 1-2 abstracts. Most are in trauma/surgical fields. I mostly just did whatever research I found. Currently in the process of doing a cardiology case report.

If you saw those though, unfortunately I'm not sure how to get a better class rank for you. I can email someone and find out my exact standing though (we are only told what quartile we are in if you don't ask for specifics). I go to a state MD school that isn't a top ranked school. I do have a home program that is top 20 in the south in internal medicine through the hospital attached to the school if that helps at all (but no cards fellowship here).

I would like to stay in the southeast and will apply to Emory and my home program for sure. Honestly, I would ultimately like to set myself up for the best chances of matching into cardiology though (which outweighs my desire to stay in the southeast) so I don't mind applying throughout the nation. I know I won't match at Duke/Vandy but I thought I might just apply for the heck of it (unless you all think that would be a waste of money). Any advice with my stats would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

Take step 2 asap and release the score. Top quartile is great! The southeast is typically less competitive. You are really going to have to make your own list. It seems like you already know where programs stand relative to how competitive your application is. Get a good mix of reach/match/safety programs and you'll be golden.

Need help with school list!

Step 1: 248
Step 2 CK: 265
Step 2 CS: scheduled for September
School: unranked mid-tier MD school in the south
Rank: top 15%
Third year clerkships: H in OBGYN, IM, family, peds, psych, neuro; HP in surgery
AOA: will qualify for senior but not sure extracurriculars will make the cut
Research: none in med school
Extracurriculars: couple leadership positions and some service (nothing special)
LORs: chairman’s letter; neurology clerkship director; anticipated letter from IM residency program director at my school from sub-I in July
Potentially interested in heme/onc or ICU

Want to stay in the South (or at least somewhere warm), preferably an academic program in a large city.

Georgetown
GW
UVA
VCU
UNC
MUSC
Emory
Tulane
Ochsner (New Orleans)
LSU
UAB
Miami
USF Morsani (Tampa)
Vandy
UT Austin
UTSW
UT Houston
UT San Antonio
Baylor
UCSD
Cedars-Sinai
USC
UCLA
University of Arizona (Tucson)

I feel like this list may be top heavy. Any lower tier academic programs in the south worth considering?

Thanks!

You're all set. This list looks solid. You'll have plenty to pick from and will match. Obviously starting research now would be way too late. You can still match just fine without it. Any PD worth a damn will be able to look right through any kind of slapped together research experience you try to do now. Just focus your app on other things.

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[undecidedMD5]

Hi all,

Was looking to get some advice on my situation. I am currently a 4th year us allopathic student who suddenly realized that I wanted to do IM all along. The problem is I thought that I really wanted to do EM and have had 2 EM away rotations already (for their letter of recommendations) and might have another one coming up. I've been trying to get a last minute medicine subi but have had no luck and all the spots I've looked into are filled before ERAS opens. I feel like I've really set myself up to be a great em applicant which might be hard to explain during interviews. Other than that, I have great scores, clerkship grades, and some research. How should I approach this? Are my numerous em electives red flags for solid academic IM programs? Has anyone else been in this situation? At what length should I explain my change of heart(should I talk about it in my PS?) Thanks for the advice!

 

[tantacles]

Hi all,

Was looking to get some advice on my situation. I am currently a 4th year us allopathic student who suddenly realized that I wanted to do IM all along. The problem is I thought that I really wanted to do EM and have had 2 EM away rotations already (for their letter of recommendations) and might have another one coming up. I've been trying to get a last minute medicine subi but have had no luck and all the spots I've looked into are filled before ERAS opens.

You don't need a sub-I to be competitive.

I feel like I've really set myself up to be a great em applicant which might be hard to explain during interviews. Other than that, I have great scores, clerkship grades, and some research. How should I approach this?

Explain that you initially wanted to do EM and had a change of heart.

Are my numerous em electives red flags for solid academic IM programs?

No.

Has anyone else been in this situation? At what length should I explain my change of heart(should I talk about it in my PS?)

Eh. Just have a good personal statement.

Thanks for the advice!

 

[235009]

Hi all,

Was looking to get some advice on my situation. I am currently a 4th year us allopathic student who suddenly realized that I wanted to do IM all along. The problem is I thought that I really wanted to do EM and have had 2 EM away rotations already (for their letter of recommendations) and might have another one coming up. I've been trying to get a last minute medicine subi but have had no luck and all the spots I've looked into are filled before ERAS opens. I feel like I've really set myself up to be a great em applicant which might be hard to explain during interviews. Other than that, I have great scores, clerkship grades, and some research. How should I approach this? Are my numerous em electives red flags for solid academic IM programs? Has anyone else been in this situation? At what length should I explain my change of heart(should I talk about it in my PS?) Thanks for the advice!

I think your story may be met with skepticism. PDs may not believe that you had a change of heart and may think you're applying to both or applying to IM as a backup.

 

[sputnik1]

WAMC:
School: lower-tier MD in midwest (rank 60's-70's).
Pre-clin grades: bottom 20%...not reported directly but "indicated" on Dean's Letter in combination with clerkship grades...my best guess is letter will indicate I'm average.
Step 1: 260
Step2cs/ck: Haven't taken yet
m3 grades: H in IM, psych and family med.
LOR: Haven't decided who to pick yet
research: Acknowledged in 2 papers in critical care medicine. Secondary author on 2 papers (not clinical though, are in chemistry & biomedical engineering) performed at a top institution with a very prestigious grant (done over summer between M1 & M2) developing biotech for public health purposes. 1 published review, 1 published abstract.

Very worried about the discrepancy between class rank & my Step 1 score (let's just say I hunker down for boards)

Want to get into as elite of an IM program as I can. Is MGH or Hopkins in the cards for me?

What are the most elite programs where I have a decent shot? I'd prefer somewhere on the coasts (both east and west) but am still very open to location

 

[IM88]

What are the most elite programs where I have a decent shot? I'd prefer somewhere on the coasts (both east and west) but am still very open to location

Your Step 1 helps, and a strong Step 2 before interviews may also be useful in your case. I think part of your success depends on how your grades are reported on your dean's letter, and whether you will be AOA and/or GHHS. At many of the "elite" programs (arbitrarily defined), a sizable percentage of the matriculants are AOA (40-50%+). The "acknowledgments" on papers won't really count for much, but the publications and grant should help - play this up if you're interested in research. At this point I'd apply broadly, and include some strong programs that are located in less desirable areas (eg. WashU, UTSW). Also ask yourself why going to an "elite" program matters to you. Do you want to live/work in Boston? Pursue a career in research? etc. As long as you're not just picking a residency for it's name, you'll find that there are plenty of programs that will help you achieve your goals.

 

[sputnik1]

Your Step 1 helps, and a strong Step 2 before interviews may also be useful in your case. I think part of your success depends on how your grades are reported on your dean's letter, and whether you will be AOA and/or GHHS. At many of the "elite" programs (arbitrarily defined), a sizable percentage of the matriculants are AOA (40-50%+). The "acknowledgments" on papers won't really count for much, but the publications and grant should help - play this up if you're interested in research. At this point I'd apply broadly, and include some strong programs that are located in less desirable areas (eg. WashU, UTSW). Also ask yourself why going to an "elite" program matters to you. Do you want to live/work in Boston? Pursue a career in research? etc. As long as you're not just picking a residency for it's name, you'll find that there are plenty of programs that will help you achieve your goals.

AOA is not possible, GHHS might be in the cards...Dean's Letter will be written in such a way that will probably indicate I am an "average" student in terms of MSPE standards.

Top ranked residency = glory. Yes I know for the most part there are many great programs that'll help me become a great clinician...research is something I have an interest in (not sure about though). But might as well go for the best right? In terms of location the coasts are ideal, but I am extremely adaptable...I really don't care... if Hopkins were located in northern Alaska, I'd move there...

Do I have a decent shot at Hopkins/MGH or not really?

 

[ABatOutofHeck]

AOA is not possible, GHHS might be in the cards...Dean's Letter will be written in such a way that will probably indicate I am an "average" student in terms of MSPE standards.

Top ranked residency = glory. Yes I know for the most part there are many great programs that'll help me become a great clinician...research is something I have an interest in (not sure about though). But might as well go for the best right? In terms of location the coasts are ideal, but I am extremely adaptable...I really don't care... if Hopkins were located in northern Alaska, I'd move there...

Do I have a decent shot at Hopkins/MGH or not really?

Not really. Average performance from a lower tier school will not get you to the Big 4. Superstars from lower tier schools who have great grades and board scores and research struggle with matching there.

 

[sputnik1]

Not really. Average performance from a lower tier school will not get you to the Big 4. Superstars from lower tier schools who have great grades and board scores and research struggle with matching there.

Thanks, I really wanted to know. If not Big 4, what are the best programs where I have a decent shot? (Stanford a possibility? NY Presby.? UCLA? )

 

[gutonc]

Thanks, I really wanted to know. If not Big 4, what are the best programs where I have a decent shot? (Stanford a possibility? NY Presby.? UCLA? )

Dude...just apply. It's cheap as hell. See what happens.

FWIW, I got interviews from 2 of the "Big 4" (hated them both), and no love from Stanford, NW, Emory and a bunch of other places. But did interview at UofC and Cornell. UofC is the only "Top X" program that made my top 5, and only one of 2 that made my top 10.

I matched my #1

 

[235009]

Thanks, I really wanted to know. If not Big 4, what are the best programs where I have a decent shot? (Stanford a possibility? NY Presby.? UCLA? )

This line of questioning is becoming quite tedious. Apply to all of them and see what happens. If we say no will you not apply there? Doubtful. Unfortunately you only have two components needed for those "top tier" programs and you typically need 3 from the following list: top school, high step 1 score, AOA or first quartile, H in IM. I would say any interviews at top places would be a bonus. It's unclear to me why you feel like you need to go to one of these programs other than an inferiority complex.

 

[sputnik1]

This line of questioning is becoming quite tedious. Apply to all of them and see what happens. If we say no will you not apply there? Doubtful. Unfortunately you only have two components needed for those "top tier" programs and you typically need 3 from the following list: top school, high step 1 score, AOA or first quartile, H in IM. I would say any interviews at top places would be a bonus. It's unclear to me why you feel like you need to go to one of these programs other than an inferiority complex.

It is very much driven by an inferiority complex perpetuated since childhood (growing up in a household/culture/environment where prestige of school matters a lot....personal ego...inadequacy issues) that I'm working on but can't seem to fully escape (I've seen shrinks throughout the years and it has improved tremendously but don't think I'll ever escape it fully). I won't be depressed if I get into a very average program, but due to issues stated above, do feel some sense of worth from prestige. But thank you for the responses.

Also to note...this is a WAMC thread....obviously "applying to all of them" is something most of us will do....I just really want to know my chances...

 

[IMreshopeful]

It is very much driven by an inferiority complex perpetuated since childhood (growing up in a household/culture/environment where prestige of school matters a lot....personal ego...inadequacy issues) that I'm working on but can't seem to fully escape (I've seen shrinks throughout the years and it has improved tremendously but don't think I'll ever escape it fully). I won't be depressed if I get into a very average program, but due to issues stated above, do feel some sense of worth from prestige. But thank you for the responses.

Also to note...this is a WAMC thread....obviously "applying to all of them" is something most of us will do....I just really want to know my chances...

You probably want to work on that ego/inadequacy part because its going to make residency hell if you put so much stock into it.

 

[235009]

Also to note...this is a WAMC thread....obviously "applying to all of them" is something most of us will do....I just really want to know my chances...

You were already told your chances at those programs aren't good. I suspect you'll end up at one of those mid-tier programs that lay people think is prestigious. Enjoy Minnesota or Cleveland!


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[Animalcules]

AOA is not possible, GHHS might be in the cards...Dean's Letter will be written in such a way that will probably indicate I am an "average" student in terms of MSPE standards.

Top ranked residency = glory. Yes I know for the most part there are many great programs that'll help me become a great clinician...research is something I have an interest in (not sure about though). But might as well go for the best right? In terms of location the coasts are ideal, but I am extremely adaptable...I really don't care... if Hopkins were located in northern Alaska, I'd move there...

Do I have a decent shot at Hopkins/MGH or not really?

I think you should be able to predict your chances based on the IM match list of your school in previous years, if this is available to you. You will probably land somewhere lower than the "top" IM matches in your school given that they may well have great scores and highest class rankings.

If you look at the websites of residency programs, you will see where people come from. It is rare to see someone match at MGH or Hopkins from a small US school. Not that I think this is fair in any way, but "pedigree" is overly valued by some of them. If name matters to you, try Hopkins Bayview.

That said, you seem to be doing well clinically, so you can still aim higher for fellowship. It will be much easier to get into a top school fellowship program than a top school residency program if you are not a cards-only kind of guy (which you may be since you may consider certain fields more prestigious). Many people work themselves up: small school doing well - mid-tier residency killing it - top program fellowship. It matters for your career where you are after fellowship, not as much where you did your residency (not that it doesn't). Just keep that in mind.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Hi all,

Was looking to get some advice on my situation. I am currently a 4th year us allopathic student who suddenly realized that I wanted to do IM all along. The problem is I thought that I really wanted to do EM and have had 2 EM away rotations already (for their letter of recommendations) and might have another one coming up. I've been trying to get a last minute medicine subi but have had no luck and all the spots I've looked into are filled before ERAS opens. I feel like I've really set myself up to be a great em applicant which might be hard to explain during interviews. Other than that, I have great scores, clerkship grades, and some research. How should I approach this? Are my numerous em electives red flags for solid academic IM programs? Has anyone else been in this situation? At what length should I explain my change of heart(should I talk about it in my PS?) Thanks for the advice!

Nope. Actually it is very easy to explain. Just say the truth, you thought you wanted to do EM and realized- because of whatever reason you choose- you wanted to do IM. The reasons can be you want in-patient/outpatient medicine, you want to do more than just put bandaids on problems, you want more indepth understanding of pathophysiology, you want to do more than just stablize someone, you want to become the master of something (insert specialty here), you wnat to have longer term relationships with your patients etc, etc.

Putting it in your PS wouldn't be a bad idea and may make your PS more interesting to read. Realize that there is no shame in changing your mind. And because internists tend to be more cerebral, may actually be a plus

 

[Instatewaiter]

WAMC:
School: lower-tier MD in midwest (rank 60's-70's).
Pre-clin grades: bottom 20%...not reported directly but "indicated" on Dean's Letter in combination with clerkship grades...my best guess is letter will indicate I'm average.
Step 1: 260
Step2cs/ck: Haven't taken yet
m3 grades: H in IM, psych and family med.
LOR: Haven't decided who to pick yet
research: Acknowledged in 2 papers in critical care medicine. Secondary author on 2 papers (not clinical though, are in chemistry & biomedical engineering) performed at a top institution with a very prestigious grant (done over summer between M1 & M2) developing biotech for public health purposes. 1 published review, 1 published abstract.

Very worried about the discrepancy between class rank & my Step 1 score (let's just say I hunker down for boards)

Want to get into as elite of an IM program as I can. Is MGH or Hopkins in the cards for me?

What are the most elite programs where I have a decent shot? I'd prefer somewhere on the coasts (both east and west) but am still very open to location

How do you rank for clinical grades? Ask your dean if you don't know (and ask him/her to relay that in your dean's letter if it is good). Realistically pre-clinical grades mean very little if you did well on the boards. That said, if your clinical rank mirrors the pre-clinical rank that could be a problem. Also, even if your clinical rank is good if your dean's letter still places you at the bottom of the students, that is a problem.

I'd say try and parse the above out. Apply to those places but if your cinical rank or dean's letter aren't both stellar, I don't think you're going to have much luck. You probably will end up in the mid-to-upper tier.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Top ranked residency = glory. Yes I know for the most part there are many great programs that'll help me become a great clinician...research is something I have an interest in (not sure about though). But might as well go for the best right? In terms of location the coasts are ideal, but I am extremely adaptable...I really don't care... if Hopkins were located in northern Alaska, I'd move there...

Do I have a decent shot at Hopkins/MGH or not really?

Northern Alaska is a lot safer than Baltimore.

Also I thought you wanted prestigue. What's with the focus on community programs like Hopkins?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Nope. Actually it is very easy to explain. Just say the truth, you thought you wanted to do EM and realized- because of whatever reason you choose- you wanted to do IM. The reasons can be you want in-patient/outpatient medicine, you want to do more than just put bandaids on problems, you want more indepth understanding of pathophysiology, you want to do more than just stablize someone, you want to become the master of something (insert specialty here), you wnat to have longer term relationships with your patients etc, etc.

Putting it in your PS wouldn't be a bad idea and may make your PS more interesting to read. Realize that there is no shame in changing your mind. And because internists tend to be more cerebral, may actually be a plus

Although you can put something like this in your PS, when you do that I still can't tell if you're applying to IM as a backup. Maybe you are applying to EM with a PS that says how much you love EM, and then to IM with the above. That's exactly what I might do if I was interested in EM but thought I might not be competitive enough and wanted to apply to IM as a backup.

Better options:

1. Have a letter from your EM rotation state specifically that you have changed your mind and are applying to IM. Once it's noted in your EM letter, I know it's true.
2. Can consider same for MSPE. Many dean's will not put what you're applying to into them, in case people change their minds.

 

[Instatewaiter]

I would argue that IM on average is now more competitive than EM... So it doesn't really make sense to use IM as a backup for EM unless you are applying to very non-competitive programs. It is not like he was considering Derm and decided to do IM.

 

[ElixirofLife]

Would appreciate some help with critiquing school list and chances!

School: Top 25
Step 1: >265
Step 2: TBD
Pre-clinical: All H
Clinicals: All H thus far with H in medicine
Rank: #1 currently
AOA: Yes
GHHS: Yes
LORs: Should be good
Research: Probably the weakness of my app - 5 publications from several years ago (undergrad); one poster at national conference; two projects during medical school that haven't amounted to too much but possibly another paper along the way
Extracurriculars: Several leadership activities, volunteering, nothing too special
Future plans: GI/cards, academic medicine

School list:
West:
OHSU
Stanford
UCSD
UCSF
UW

South:
Baylor
Emory
Duke
UTSW
Vandy

East:
BWH
Columbia
Hopkins
MGH
Penn

North:
Mayo
Michigan
Northwestern
UChicago

I was wondering how this list of programs looked and if I should add any in particular (more safeties)? Not really any geographic preference as of now. Any advice about chances or how I could be approaching my school list would be appreciated.

 

[Please_Stand_By]

.

 

[IMreshopeful]

Would appreciate some help with critiquing school list and chances!

School: Top 25
Step 1: >265
Step 2: TBD
Pre-clinical: All H
Clinicals: All H thus far with H in medicine
Rank: #1 currently
AOA: Yes
GHHS: Yes
LORs: Should be good
Research: Probably the weakness of my app - 5 publications from several years ago (undergrad); one poster at national conference; two projects during medical school that haven't amounted to too much but possibly another paper along the way
Extracurriculars: Several leadership activities, volunteering, nothing too special
Future plans: GI/cards, academic medicine

School list:
West:
OHSU
Stanford
UCSD
UCSF
UW

South:
Baylor
Emory
Duke
UTSW
Vandy

East:
BWH
Columbia
Hopkins
MGH
Penn

North:
Mayo
Michigan
Northwestern
UChicago

I was wondering how this list of programs looked and if I should add any in particular (more safeties)? Not really any geographic preference as of now. Any advice about chances or how I could be approaching my school list would be appreciated.

Five publications? What a HORRIBLE research application. So bad.

Are you guys for real? You'll be fine.

 

[tantacles]

Five publications? What a HORRIBLE research application. So bad.

Are you guys for real? You'll be fine.

So you are literally the #1 student at a top 25 school with five publications and you doubt your chances at any program? Do you have any actual regional preferences? You have a good shot at getting interviews from all of the schools you listed, but it seems silly to apply to so many regions unless you have literally no idea where you want to end up as you should have your pick of programs.

 

[ElixirofLife]

So you are literally the #1 student at a top 25 school with five publications and you doubt your chances at any program? Do you have any actual regional preferences? You have a good shot at getting interviews from all of the schools you listed, but it seems silly to apply to so many regions unless you have literally no idea where you want to end up as you should have your pick of programs.

Sorry if I came off the wrong way, guys. Regarding my research, most of my projects were long before med school and although I have publications it still feels a bit superficial and far out except for one or two projects I was involved in. I only actively participated in two projects in med school but thus far only one has yielded anything unless something comes before September. Anyways, I don't have a geographic preference and I'm applying around because I don't know what's out there. All I know right now is I want to likely do GI/cards in an academic setting so I hear prestige is somewhat important. Was wondering if my list was too top heavy and if I needed more safeties.

 

[tantacles]

Sorry if I came off the wrong way, guys. Regarding my research, most of my projects were long before med school and although I have publications it still feels a bit superficial and far out except for one or two projects I was involved in. I only actively participated in two projects in med school but thus far only one has yielded anything unless something comes before September.

This is still more research than most in your situation applying to IM have.

Anyways, I don't have a geographic preference and I'm applying around because I don't know what's out there. All I know right now is I want to likely do GI/cards in an academic setting so I hear prestige is somewhat important.

My main suggestion is that you try to figure out a little bit of what you want outside of medicine. All of the programs you applied to (and many more) will provide you with a fine academic background with which to do GI/cards; from most University programs with a fellowship, you should, at the very least, assuming you're a good resident and you put in your work to get appropriate research, be able to get a cards or GI residency at an academic center (the one at which you do residency being the most likely one).

To just practice in any academic setting, without a preference for location or program, again, just do well in your residency and fellowship and make them want you. What are you aiming for? Are you aiming to be a research superstar? A clinical educator? A program administrator? A hospital administrator? Again, you can do any of these things coming from many programs, so try to figure out what you want outside of medicine so that it can guide you a bit more before interviews so you don't have to spend your money and time going to them. For example, do you want to be on a coast? Near family? In a city with good cost of living? Do you like the South? Do you THINK you'll like the South? The same goes for the east, the west, the Northeast, the PNW, the midwest, etc. Do you have a weather preference? Start doing some research about the cities and I guarantee that you'll be able to eliminate some of these top programs. You may even be able to find one or two programs that you think you'll love and will be more "safeties" for you (and are still very academic). I never thought my program would be where I would end up, but I knew I would like the city and it was closer to my family than medical school, and that played a bigger part than many other factors.

 

[alein]

DO student applying this year, I'm aiming for University programs with fellowships primarily in the Midwest, I want to do cardio/EP in the future, not too picky. My top programs are OHSU, University of Minnesota, University of Wisconsin, MCW, Vanderbilt, Loyola, UPenn, Georgetown, but will send out 30/35 apps.

DO school
Step 1: 243, Step 2 CK 250.
Comlex I: 659, waiting for II
Clinicals: HP in surgery, no Honors less that 5% get honors in our school.
Class rank: 2nd quartile
Research: 1 undergrad publication not first author.
LORs: 1 FM assistant program director, 1 IM, 1 Eletrophys, Im planning to get a University letter in an upcoming rotation.

 

[235009]

DO student applying this year, I'm aiming for University programs with fellowships primarily in the Midwest, I want to do cardio/EP in the future, not too picky. My top programs are OHSU, University of Minnesota, University of Wisconsin, MCW, Vanderbilt, Loyola, UPenn, Georgetown, but will send out 30/35 apps.

DO school
Step 1: 243, Step 2 CK 250.
Comlex I: 659, waiting for II
Clinicals: HP in surgery, no Honors less that 5% get honors in our school.
Class rank: 2nd quartile
Research: 1 undergrad publication not first author.
LORs: 1 FM assistant program director, 1 IM, 1 Eletrophys, Im planning to get a University letter in an upcoming rotation.

You need to expand your list to include many low-tier university programs. If we're talking about the mid-west then it would be mostly state schools but if you're interested in philly it would be Temple and Drexel . Your profile would be on par for most of the programs you mentioned (other than UPenn and maybe Vanderbilt) if you were a US MD but as a DO these places are at the very least reaches (except for UPenn which you shouldn't even bother applying to unless your dad is the chief of medicine). Also, not having any honors in any rotations is a big red flag. I struggle to believe (as will PDs) that it's really only 5% that get honors and if that is the case your school is screwing over its students who are already underdogs in this process. If surgery is your only HP and everything else is a P then that's an even bigger problem.

 

[alein]

You need to expand your list to include many low-tier university programs. If we're talking about the mid-west then it would be mostly state schools but if you're interested in philly it would be Temple and Drexel . Your profile would be on par for most of the programs you mentioned (other than UPenn and maybe Vanderbilt) if you were a US MD but as a DO these places are at the very least reaches (except for UPenn which you shouldn't even bother applying to unless your dad is the chief of medicine). Also, not having any honors in any rotations is a big red flag. I struggle to believe (as will PDs) that it's really only 5% that get honors and if that is the case your school is screwing over its students who are already underdogs in this process. If surgery is your only HP and everything else is a P then that's an even bigger problem.

Thanks for the advice. Most of those places you mentioned are on my list as back up, the ones I mentioned are my best case scenario! And I do agree with you making 5% of the class honors is only doing us a dis-service but our administration is under the impression that making it that tough to get honors makes us look good.

 

[whoknows2012]

Thanks for the advice. Most of those places you mentioned are on my list as back up, the ones I mentioned are my best case scenario! And I do agree with you making 5% of the class honors is only doing us a dis-service but our administration is under the impression that making it that tough to get honors makes us look good.

It's makes those people who get honors look good. Everyone else looks worse though. Not seeing the benefit. 10-15% I get. 5% is way too restrictive

 

[Hopefuldoc22]

Scored a 213. What types of IM programs are available to me. I figure mostly community based? I'd like to sub specialize if I go into IM. Would this still be possible given my opportunities?

 

[tantacles]

Scored a 213. What types of IM programs are available to me. I figure mostly community based? I'd like to sub specialize if I go into IM. Would this still be possible given my opportunities?

If you're a USMD, many University programs are still open to you. I can't say which ones, but you shouldn't have a problem finding several university programs that would love to have you.

 

[235009]

If you're a USMD, many University programs are still open to you. I can't say which ones, but you shouldn't have a problem finding several university programs that would love to have you.

The poster is a DO and shopping around. Has already posted the same thing for EM and anesthesia. Pick a specialty based on your interest and not your step score but with a 213 as a DO you will likely end up at a community program that may not lead to suspecialization unless you are thinking of doing a non-competitive subspecialty like ID, renal, geri, etc


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[tantacles]

The poster is a DO and shopping around. Has already posted the same thing for EM and anesthesia. Pick a specialty based on your interest and not your step score but with a 213 as a DO you will likely end up at a community program that may not lead to suspecialization unless you are thinking of doing a non-competitive subspecialty like ID, renal, geri, etc


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Thanks for this. Wasn't in a doxxing mood.

 

[Hopefuldoc22]

The poster is a DO and shopping around. Has already posted the same thing for EM and anesthesia. Pick a specialty based on your interest and not your step score but with a 213 as a DO you will likely end up at a community program that may not lead to suspecialization unless you are thinking of doing a non-competitive subspecialty like ID, renal, geri, etc


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I'd love to pick what I'd want to do purely out of interest however my step score may not allow that. This, I think it's a good idea for me to at least see what I'm competitive for based on interests so that I can best prepare myself for the next phase

 

[IMPD]

The WAMC thread makes me think of an un-met need in both GME and student life.

Given the recent Journal article about "how broken is the Match", I think it's safe to say that the only entity that the Match is working for is the NRMP.

Students are applying to a lot of programs because they have poor or non-existent information about where they are competitive, where are reach and where are safety programs. Programs are flooded with applicants who have no intention of going there but feel they must interview anyway.

What would the market be for a "Free-to-applicant", "Fee-for-Programs" information be? One that would show applicants where to apply based on historical data, which would have to provided by the programs. (IMG/AMG, board pass, fellowship rate). Seems like it would help applicants get their WAMC data from a indepdent source. As charming as the comments in this thread are.....

 

[GingerBreadHead]

bump

 

[NoLollipops4U]

DO student, non-US citizen (require a visa, listing programs below that sponsor). Weird gray area between IMG and US DO.

Step 1: 230, COMLEX 1: 520
Step 2/COMLEX 2 : Pending
Class rank: Lower half
M3: Honors cardiology elective, Honors Pulm/CC elective, HP on IM1, P on IM2, (yeah I did lots of IM third year)....pass on the rest
Research: None, might have my name on a case study from the past spring.
LOR: One strong letter from a cardiologist, currently on an away/SubI at an academic residency program I'm interested in. Hopefully one from here. One from outpatient FM physician. Doing another away in two months at an academic program, hopefully secure another letter.

Goal: I would prefer to do something like CC/pulm but nephrology interests me as well. I would also do a 1 year fellowship.

Reach programs: OSU, Dartmouth, U Iowa, U Arkansas, Mayo (Florida), UPMC Mercy, U Cincinnati , Montefiore, Georgetown, NSLIJ, UTSW

Attainable?
NY: Mt Sinai (St Lukes), Mt Sinai (Beth Israel - closing?), Jacobi, SUNY upstate, Stony Brook, U Rochester, U Albany, Lenox hill, U Buffalo, Maimonides
PA: Einstein, Drexel, Geisinger, Penn State Hershey
Midwest: CC (also applying CC Florida), Metrohealth, Northshore, Advocate (Chicago), MCW, St Louis Uni, UKMC, U Missouri - Columbia, Wayne State, Henry Ford, Creighton, U Minnesota
Northeast: Baystate tufts, U Vermont, U Conn, U Mass
Other: U Nevada, U New Mexico, George Washington

Safety: 30ish Community programs I found

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated on my rough chances at those programs? Are my reaches more like hail marys? I'm interested in the feedback for my "attainable" programs and ones that are actually more of a reach. Thanks a lot!

 

[whoknows2012]

Not sure why Maimonides is in the reach and upmc is in attainable but those should be switched. Georgetown utsw and nslij belong in the reach column. There's probably a couple others not labeled correctly but someone else with more knowledge might be able to help. It's a long list though and that should be helpful. Not sure how great a chance you have at a low tier university program but I think you'll definitely match somewhere. My guess is a solid community program but thinks there's a least a shot of a low tier university program

 

[NoLollipops4U]

Not sure why Maimonides is in the reach and upmc is in attainable but those should be switched. Georgetown utsw and nslij belong in the reach column. There's probably a couple others not labeled correctly but someone else with more knowledge might be able to help. It's a long list though and that should be helpful. Not sure how great a chance you have at a low tier university program but I think you'll definitely match somewhere. My guess is a solid community program but thinks there's a least a shot of a low tier university program

I really appreciate the feedback. I'm not sure why I thought that about Maimonides, I think I was mixing it up with Montefiore (which I added after my original post). Also thought UPMC Mercy was very DO friendly for some reason, but can't find a resident roster.

Thanks again! Would love some more feedback from others

 

[whoknows2012]

I really appreciate the feedback. I'm not sure why I thought that about Maimonides, I think I was mixing it up with Montefiore (which I added after my original post). Also thought UPMC Mercy was very DO friendly for some reason, but can't find a resident roster.

Thanks again! Would love some more feedback from others

I thought it originally said upmc, which usually refers to the main university program. But if you indeed mean upmc mercy I have no idea about that program. Given that it's a community program I think it's at least attainable and not necessarily a reach

 

[wind0angel]

Deleted

 

[clk88]

.

 

[batndz]

Hope to get into academic IM (don't really care about tier) in the middle Atlantic (DC, Baltimore, Philly, NYC, NJ). I'd be ok with community program as long as there's access to good research opportunities. My goal is academic medicine in heme/onc. Had a rough time with step 1. Worked all of 3rd year to make up for it.

Med school rank: Top tier DO school (if that even means anything lol)
USMLE Step 1: 216
COMLEX Level 1: 538
USMLE Step 2: 249
COMLEX level 2: 653
Class rank: middle of the pack
SSP: Nope
Honors: Surgery, FM, peds, MICU HP: IM, psych Pass: OB/Gyn

Research: 2 year research post bac at a prestigious institution, multiple summer internships, one of which was during med school, 1 year grad school.
7 pubs in basic science oncology, 1 poster in same.
LOR: 1 heme/onc PD, 1 pulm/crit PD, 1 med/peds attending.

I'm skipping AOA match (most likely. I might apply, I haven't applied yet). My school has a good record of matching people into university IM.


I've looked through FREIDA and there seems to be a huge amount of programs in that geographic range. I'm trying to pare down the list to programs I realistically have a chance at.

Any suggestions?

 

[gutonc]

Hope to get into academic IM (don't really care about tier) in the middle Atlantic (DC, Baltimore, Philly, NYC, NJ). I'd be ok with community program as long as there's access to good research opportunities. My goal is academic medicine in heme/onc. Had a rough time with step 1. Worked all of 3rd year to make up for it.

Med school rank: Top tier DO school (if that even means anything lol)
USMLE Step 1: 216
COMLEX Level 1: 538
USMLE Step 2: 249
COMLEX level 2: 653
Class rank: middle of the pack
SSP: Nope
Honors: Surgery, FM, peds, MICU HP: IM, psych Pass: OB/Gyn

Research: 2 year research post bac at a prestigious institution, multiple summer internships, one of which was during med school, 1 year grad school.
7 pubs in basic science oncology, 1 poster in same.
LOR: 1 heme/onc PD, 1 pulm/crit PD, 1 med/peds attending.

I'm skipping AOA match (most likely. I might apply, I haven't applied yet). My school has a good record of matching people into university IM.


I've looked through FREIDA and there seems to be a huge amount of programs in that geographic range. I'm trying to pare down the list to programs I realistically have a chance at.

Any suggestions?

The Big Names (JHH, Columbia, Cornell, NYU, Penn) aren't happening for you. But you knew that already. But there are, as you point out, a ton of places that you likely do have a good shot at. Your best bet is to pick the places your school has matched people to in the past (or places that have DOs in their current roster) and apply there.

Monte and Sinai in NYC, NSLIJ on LI, the NJMS programs, any place in Philly not named UPenn, Pitt (if you're willing to go a little east), Maryland, Hopkins-Bayview, any of the DC programs. Start there and see how big your list gets.

 

[235009]

The Big Names (JHH, Columbia, Cornell, NYU, Penn) aren't happening for you. But you knew that already. But there are, as you point out, a ton of places that you likely do have a good shot at. Your best bet is to pick the places your school has matched people to in the past (or places that have DOs in their current roster) and apply there.

Monte and Sinai in NYC, NSLIJ on LI, the NJMS programs, any place in Philly not named UPenn, Pitt (if you're willing to go a little east), Maryland, Hopkins-Bayview, any of the DC programs. Start there and see how big your list gets.

Ummm are we reading the same post? A "middle of the road" DO with a 216 step 1....may as well flush the application fees down the toilet if that's what the list is gonna look like. Your best chance at academic programs in this very competitive region would be: Temple, Drexel, the SUNY schools, NJ state schools, GW


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[Zephor0]

...

 

[235009]

I'll try with my substandard app and see if I'm on the right track. DO student
COMLEX 1 462
COMLEX 2 480
PE pending
3rd quartile grades
Honored IM, IM/cardiology IM/pulm cc, audition IM
HP General Surgery, OBGYN
LOR from cardiology and IM chair from audition both saying top of class.
Passed rest
No publications

I'd like to go to a large community program near bigger cities. Applied 44 DO programs in Pennsylvania, Michigan, New York, Florida, Illinois. Not restricted by location.

Just got rejected from one already and was wondering if I should expand the search?

I'll have 3 more auditions after this one I'm doing. Am i just banking on auditions at this point? Are there any programs that I won't audition at that will take me?

All good questions but you likely won't get an informed answer from this crowd since we know nothing about AOA programs. Your best bet would be to seek out the advice of specific DOs on this board, graduates from your school at AOA programs, program directors of AOA programs you've rotated at, etc.

Good luck.

 

[bugsterizer83]

What are my chances for IM? Do i have any shot at any mid tier academic programs? Thanks for your time.

Background - US M.D. student at public state school.

• Red flag:
  • Started med school in 2011 but took one year leave of absence for health reasons after just a couple days of class (didn't take any exams or anything).
  • Returned as part-time student the following year (did the part-time tract offered at our school due to on-going health and family reasons). Basically the way it works is your M1 year is taken over 2 years.
  • Failed anatomy class and histology class in Spring semester of M1 (year 1). Passed the make-up histology exam over summer. Failed the make-up anatomy exam.
  • Because I was part-time M1 anyway, I retook Anatomy during my M1 (year 2) (with the other classes I hadn't taken yet) and passed.
• Subsequently finished M1, M2, M3 with no further academic problems.
• M3 grades are: Honors in I.M. clerkship, High Pass in everything else except OB which was Pass.
• USMLE Step I 225
• USMLE Step II CK 238
• M4 electives that I'm taking before September: home ICU sub-i, home Pulmonology/Sleep medicine elective, and away IM sub-i.

 

[gutonc]

WAMC for IM/where should I apply:

Background - US M.D. student at public state school.

• Red flag:
  • Started med school in 2011 but took one year leave of absence for health reasons after just a couple days of class (didn't take any exams or anything).
  • Returned as part-time student the following year (did the part-time tract offered at our school due to on-going health and family reasons). Basically the way it works is your M1 year is taken over 2 years.
  • Failed anatomy class and histology class in Spring semester of M1 (year 1). Passed the make-up histology exam over summer. Failed the make-up anatomy exam.
  • Because I was part-time M1 anyway, I retook Anatomy during my M1 (year 2) (with the other classes I hadn't taken yet) and passed.
• Subsequently finished M1, M2, M3 with no further academic problems.
• M3 grades are: Honors in I.M. clerkship, High Pass in everything else except OB which was Pass.
• USMLE Step I 225
• USMLE Step II CK 238
• M4 electives that I'm taking before September: home ICU sub-i, home Pulmonology/Sleep medicine elective, and away IM sub-i.

You didn't actually ask a question.