OFFICIAL - 2022 Match Lists

[aldol16]

would you say Cornell's reputation is comparable to NYU though? Or more so the lower end of the T20s (Sinai, UChicago, etc.)

I have no idea how to answer this question. It has to do with the specific specialties anyway. For example, NYU is very highly regarded in the neurosurgery and ortho world. Obviously Cornell is affiliated with HSS for ortho but they are separate institutions (and HJD is pretty amazing too). But I'm sure this varies by specialty - the important distinction here is which specialty you want to go into as a medical student. The one with the stronger department in that specialty will set you up (marginally) better.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[aldol16]

Anybody have Penn's match list?

 

[nimbus]

Ken langones goal was getting more people into primary care which hasn’t come to fruition but I doubt he did it for some nefarious purpose of increasing NYU’s ranking

If they’re interested in getting more students to go into primary care, maybe NYU should start a department of Family Medicine. But that doesn’t help in the rankings and their excellent IM department is somewhat territorial so I don’t see it happening.

 

[nimbus]

would you say Cornell's reputation is comparable to NYU though?

Yes. Equal or better.

 

[texasvandy]

Dell Med Match 2022
( This is probably incomplete as it's just those who wanted to announce their results at the Match Day presentation)

Anesthesia
Baylor

Dermatology
Temple
Dartmouth

Emergency Medicine
Baylor
Vanderbilt

Family Medicine
UVA
Providence Health Hood River, OR
UC Irvine
Lubbock
John Peter Smith, Ft. Worth TX

General Surgery
Einstein, Philadelphia
Baylor
U Colorado Denver
Creighton (Phoenix)
Dell
Johns Hopkins

Internal Medicine
2 - Dell
U Washington Seattle
U Alabama Birmingham
U Penn
2 - Baylor

Med/Peds
U Penn
Duke

Neurology
U Arizona Phoenix
UCLA
NYU Manhattan

Neurosurgery
Dell

OB GYN
Carolinas Medical Center

Orthopedic Surgery
Dell
Samaritan Hospital, Corvallis, OR

Pediatrics
Children’s National, Washington DC
Baylor
Emory
Cincinnati
U Washington

Plastic Surgery
Ohio State
Vanderbilt

Did they just get to letter P and stopped there?

 

[Mean Green Raider]

Texas Tech Lubbock:

IM	33​
FM	29​
Pediatrics	18​
Psychiatry	16​
Emergency Medicine	12​
OB/GYN	12​
General Surgery	9​
Diagnostic Radiology	7​
Orthopedic Surgery	5​
Urology	4​
Anesthesiology	3​
PM&R	3​
Dermatology	2​
Oral Maxillofacial Surgery	2​
Pathology	2​
Thoracic Surgery	1​
Plastic Surgery	1​
ENT	1​
Ophthalmology	1​
Interventional Radiology	1​
Neurology	1​
Child Neurology	1​
Peds-EM	1​

Pretty sure I got all of the counts right for categorical positions, but may have missed 1 or 2 here or there, so sorry in advance if so!

 

[wysdoc]

Did they just get to letter P and stopped there?

Those radiologists etc are too shy to drop the mic

With a small class of 50 there may be specialties that nobody tried for
I'll update the list when I see it.
The dean did say that everyone who entered the Match was placed
here's a map with 46 students pinned to their states (from Dell's news release)

 

[Idahodoc79]

Anyone have access to MUSC? They have it posted behind their login wall... College of Medicine Match Information & Results. Same with Loyola 2022: Loyola University Chicago: Features

 

[emperorpenguin]

University of Pennsylvania

Anesthesiology	Case Western/Univ Hosps Cleveland Med Ctr-OH
Anesthesiology	Hosp of the Univ of PA (5)
Anesthesiology	ISMMS Mount Sinai Hospital-NY
Anesthesiology	NYP Hosp-Weill Cornell Med Ctr-NY
Anesthesiology	Temple Univ Hosp-PA
Anesthesiology	UC San Francisco-CA
Child Neurology	Childrens Hosp-Philadelphia-PA (2)
Clinical Pathology Track	Stanford Health Care-CA
Dermatology	Johns Hopkins Hosp-MD
Dermatology	Loyola Univ Med Ctr-IL
Dermatology	NYP Hosp-Weill Cornell Med Ctr-NY
Dermatology	NYU Grossman School Of Medicine-NY
Dermatology	Univ of Chicago Med Ctr-IL
Dermatology	University of Virginia
Dermatology/3 yr	Hosp of the Univ of PA
Dermatology/Harvard Combined	Massachusetts Gen Hosp
Dermatology/Research	Hosp of the Univ of PA
Emergency Medicine	Massachusetts Gen Hosp
Emergency Medicine	Albert Einstein Med Ctr-PA
Emergency Medicine	CMSRU/Cooper University Hospital-NJ (2)
Emergency Medicine	Hosp of the Univ of PA
Emergency Medicine	ISMMS Mount Sinai Hospital-NY
Emergency Medicine	NYU Grossman School Of Medicine-NY
Emergency Medicine	Thomas Jefferson Univ-PA
Emergency Medicine	U Kansas SOM-Kansas City
Emergency Medicine	Yale-New Haven Hosp-CT
Family Medicine	Kaiser Permanente-Napa/Solano-CA
Family Medicine	Lancaster Gen Hosp-PA
Family Medicine	NYP Hosp-Columbia Univ Med Ctr-NY
General Surgery	Barnes-Jewish Hosp-MO
General Surgery	Hosp of the Univ of PA (3)
General Surgery	ISMMS Mount Sinai Hospital-NY (2)
General Surgery	Johns Hopkins Hosp-MD
General Surgery	U Texas Southwestern Med Sch-Dallas
Int Med/ABIM Research Path	Vanderbilt Univ Med Ctr-TN
Int Med/ABIM Research Path	Hosp of the Univ of PA (3)
Internal Medicine	B I Deaconess Med Ctr-MA
Internal Medicine	Barnes-Jewish Hosp-MO
Internal Medicine	Brigham & Womens Hosp-MA (2)
Internal Medicine	Hosp of the Univ of PA (6)
Internal Medicine	Johns Hopkins Hosp-MD (3)
Internal Medicine	Massachusetts Gen Hosp (5)
Internal Medicine	NYP Hosp-Columbia Univ Med Ctr-NY (4)
Internal Medicine	Tufts Medical Center-MA
Internal Medicine	UPMC Medical Education-PA (2)
Internal Medicine	Yale-New Haven Hosp-CT (2)
Interventional Radiology (Integ)	Duke Univ Med Ctr-NC
Interventional Radiology (Integ)	UC San Diego Med Ctr-CA
Medicine-Primary	Hosp of the Univ of PA
Medicine-Primary	Hosp of the Univ of PA
Medicine-Primary	Yale-New Haven Hosp-CT
Medicine-Primary	Brigham & Womens Hosp-MA (3)
Med-Peds	Brigham & Womens Hosp-MA
Med-Peds	Massachusetts Gen Hosp
Neurological Surgery	Mayo Clinic School of Grad Med
Neurology	Hosp of the Univ of PA (3)
Neurology	Mayo Clinic School of Grad Med
Neurology	Brigham & Womens Hosp-MA (2)
Obstetrics-Gynecology	Abington Mem Hosp-PA
Obstetrics-Gynecology	Hosp of the Univ of PA
Obstetrics-Gynecology	Northwestern McGaw/NMH/VA-IL
Obstetrics-Gynecology	Pennsylvania Hospital
Obstetrics-Gynecology	Zucker SOM-Northwell Lenox Hill Hosp-NY
Ophthalmology	New York Eye and Ear Infirm
Ophthalmology	Scheie Eye Inst
Ophthalmology	Stanford Health Care-CA
Ophthalmology	U Iowa
Ophthalmology	UC San Francisco-CA
Ophthalmology	USC Roski Eye Institute
Ophthalmology	Wilmer-Johns Hopkins
Orthopaedic Surgery	Boston Univ Med Ctr-MA
Orthopaedic Surgery	Hosp For Special Surgery-NY
Orthopaedic Surgery	UC San Diego Med Ctr-CA
Orthopaedic Surgery	UC San Francisco-CA
Otolaryngology	Harvard Med School/Mass Eye and Ear
Otolaryngology	Hosp of the Univ of PA
Otolaryngology	NYP Hosp-Columbia & Cornell-NY
Otolaryngology	NYU Grossman School Of Medicine-NY
Pathology	UC San Francisco-CA (2)
Pathology/AP only or AP/CP	Brigham & Womens Hosp-MA
Pathology/CP only	Brigham & Womens Hosp-MA
Pathology-AP/CP	Hosp of the Univ of PA
Pediatrics	Brown Univ/Rhode Island Hosp
Pediatrics	Childrens Hosp-Philadelphia-PA (6)
Pediatrics	ISMMS Mount Sinai Hospital-NY
Pediatrics	Johns Hopkins Hosp-MD
Pediatrics	NYP Hosp-Columbia Univ Med Ctr-NY
Pediatrics	University of Utah Health
Pediatrics	UPMC Medical Education-PA
Pediatrics-Medical Genetics	Childrens Hosp-Philadelphia-PA
Phys Medicine & Rehab	Harvard Spaulding Rehab Hosp-MA
Plastic Surgery (Integrated)	Hosp of the Univ of PA
Plastic Surgery (Integrated)	U Rochester/Strong Memorial-NY
Plastic Surgery (Integrated)	Yale-New Haven Hosp-CT
Psych/Physician-Scientist	ISMMS Mount Sinai Hospital-NY
Psychiatry	B I Deaconess Med Ctr-MA
Psychiatry	Brigham & Womens Hosp-MA (2)
Psychiatry	Hosp of the Univ of PA (4)
Psychiatry	Massachusetts Gen Hosp
Psychiatry	SUNY HSC Brooklyn-NY
Psychiatry	U Rochester/Strong Memorial-NY
Psychiatry/Child	Brigham & Womens Hosp-MA
Radiation Oncology	Hosp of the Univ of PA
Radiation Oncology	Memorial Sloan-Kettering-NY
Radiology-Diagnostic	Rush University Med Ctr-IL
Radiology-Diagnostic	Stanford Health Care-CA
Radiology-Diagnostic	Stony Brook Teach Hosps-NY
Radiology-Diagnostic	U Rochester/Strong Memorial-NY
Urology	Cleveland Clinic
Urology	Hosp of the Univ of PA (3)
Urology	Vanderbilt Univ Med Ctr-TN
Vascular Surgery	Indiana University SOM
Vascular Surgery	Massachusetts Gen Hosp

 

[Kracin]

Virginia Commonwealth University
Class of 2022 Match List VCU School of Medicine

 

[Kracin]

Saint Louis University

Match Day 2022

www.slu.edu

 

[someonerandom]

Sinai

https://mcusercontent.com/8f727e9ecb28adf7750bd1f0b/files/f32a3350-f99f-9be9-fb97-7343da20e30a/ISMMS_Match_2022_Specialty_Institutions.pdf

 

[loading......]

UMass Chan Medical School

 

[throwaway123342]

Yep. Anybody who doesn't know me who looks at my match would probably consider it "not strong" - FM in a small midwestern city at a hospital you've never heard of. But it's exactly where I want to be in terms of location, has exactly the training I need for the kind of career I want, and was my dream program and #1 rank. I also interviewed at a Cleveland Clinic program - lovely people, nice program, but would not have gotten me where I want to be in my career. Looks nice on a match list though. I'm now almost done with my third year, doing attending job interviews and getting ready to sign a contract, and I have zero regrets and would make exactly the same choice again.

The bottom line is that unless you know the individual preferences and goals of every person in that class, you really cannot evaluate whether a match list is strong or not strong. The question that matters is whether the student is where they want to be, not whether they're at Stanford or Yale. People who value prestige for the sake of prestige are going to chase a prestigious pedigree in a prestigious specialty, and that shows in the match lists of prestigious medical schools. People who don't are going to be perfectly happy at Flyover State University SOM - and plenty of those folks still end up in competitive specialties if that's what they want, as well as teaching or doing research.. Most people don't need to go to an Ivy League medical school or academic powerhouse residency to get the career they want, and you can't know if it's a good or bad match list without knowing what careers the students wanted and if that residency is going to get them there.

What did your FM program offer you that CCF could not? Other than location.

 

[throwaway123342]

Pitt Match list this year surprised us with more than 20 percent DOPEN matches this year.

This way above Case and some T10's this year. Every year is different as sometimes you have to like McDOnalds

Wtf are these acronyms. What the hell is DOPEN?

 

[someonerandom]

Wtf are these acronyms. What the hell is DOPEN?

Derm, ortho, plastics, ENT, nsgy

 

[throwaway123342]

Derm, ortho, plastics, ENT, nsgy

What an odd selection to focus on. Ophtho uro, ct surg, and IR not competitive enough to make it?

 

[someonerandom]

What an odd selection to focus on. Ophtho uro, ct surg, and IR not competitive enough to make it?

yeah its p dumb

 

[Browns99]

What an odd selection to focus on. Ophtho uro, ct surg, and IR not competitive enough to make it?

No, plastics, NSGY= most competitive, followed by ortho, Ent and rounding down to dermatology for lifestyle. Sure, ophtho, uro and the ones you mentioned are competitive, just not as high with the ones in the DOPEN category. Uro, IR are probably right there near the derm end.

 

[throwaway123342]

No, plastics, NSGY= most competitive, followed by ortho, Ent and rounding down to dermatology for lifestyle. Sure, ophtho, uro and the ones you mentioned are competitive, just not as high with the ones in the DOPEN category. Uro, IR are probably right there near the derm end.

Idk what is it about premeds and med students that they feel the need to make ridiculous acronyms. Did it cross anyones mind that the reason one school has more "DOPEN" students than another might be because they had more people seeking ENT? Is matching IM at Mass General a worse match than neurosurgery at North Alabama State? Give me a break.

 

[DukeSmith]

Idk what is it about premeds and med students that they feel the need to make ridiculous acronyms. Did it cross anyones mind that the reason one school has more "DOPEN" students than another might be because they had more people seeking ENT? Is matching IM at Mass General a worse match than neurosurgery at North Alabama State? Give me a break.

It does seem like school strength or tier tends to correlate more strongly with strength of programs rather than types of specialties. So a mid tier might have similar amount of ENT matches but they’re at less prestigious places

 

[Dogruffle01]

It does seem like school strength or tier tends to correlate more strongly with strength of programs rather than types of specialties. So a mid tier might have similar amount of ENT matches but they’re at less prestigious places

I understand why people would perceive that to be more prestigious, but correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't "tier" of residency have little impact on job prospects ( unless you want to go into academics)? Also, iirc community programs usually have better benefits and are accommodating to lifestyle for residents?

This comment is more of a question than a statement. Just wondering.

 

[Kracin]

Idk what is it about premeds and med students that they feel the need to make ridiculous acronyms.

Just you wait until you open charts on epic.
NAEON, HEENT, PERRLA, CTAB, c/c/e

 

[DOVinciRobot]

I understand why people would perceive that to be more prestigious, but correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't "tier" of residency have little impact on job prospects ( unless you want to go into academics)? Also, iirc community programs usually have better benefits and are accommodating to lifestyle for residents?

This comment is more of a question than a statement. Just wondering.

Yeah it doesn’t really impact jobs outside of academics. It can impact fellowship prospects though.

Just you wait until you open charts on epic.
NAEON, HEENT, PERRLA, CTAB, c/c/e

I’ve given up trying to understand ophtho notes lol. You need to break out a Rosetta Stone to understand that alphabet soup

 

[H0neyBadger]

Medical College of Wisconsin

Lots of Ortho once again.

 

[Lawpy]

Just you wait until you open charts on epic.
NAEON, HEENT, PERRLA, CTAB, c/c/e

Still better than the contrived acronyms invented by premeds and med students to circlejerk over which school is truly top tier material. That discussion only gives the forums a bad reputation

 

[obiwan]

I understand why people would perceive that to be more prestigious, but correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't "tier" of residency have little impact on job prospects ( unless you want to go into academics)? Also, iirc community programs usually have better benefits and are accommodating to lifestyle for residents?

This comment is more of a question than a statement. Just wondering.

I work at one of the largest tertiary/quaternary hospitals in Texas. If you look at where the super-duper specialized surgeons/sub-specialists go to school or residency or fellowship, it runs the whole gamut from top tier to lower tier. At the end of the day when all is said and done, it really doesn't matter and your patients don't give a s**t where you went.

 

[RJ McReady]

Tulane released their's: Match Results & Archive

UQ Ochsner did too: Match rates and locations

12 students matched in ortho at Tulane, that is pretty impressive

 

[bGMx]

Medical College of Wisconsin

Lots of Ortho once again.

That's crazy. Is Wisconsin actually t10? I think Wisconsin is now DOPE n' Qualified to be. Str8 cheezy like Wisconsin Curd.

 

[someonerandom]

No, plastics, NSGY= most competitive, followed by ortho, Ent and rounding down to dermatology for lifestyle. Sure, ophtho, uro and the ones you mentioned are competitive, just not as high with the ones in the DOPEN category. Uro, IR are probably right there near the derm end.

plastics and nsgy are more competitive than ortho?? wasn't the match rate for ortho this year like ~60%. Also wouldn't derm be the most competitive?

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

plastics and nsgy are more competitive than ortho?? wasn't the match rate for ortho this year like ~60%. Also wouldn't derm be the most competitive?

In 2020, Plastics, ENT, Neurosurg, and Vascular were most competitive (haven't seen a nice chart like this for 2022 yet). From what I've seen there tends to be some fluctuation year to year in these crazy competitive specialties as people self select more after bad match years, so exactly which one is "most competitive" can vary a bit year to year, but they're all competitive. and thats after the extreme self selection that occurs before you even get to applying for things like nsgy

 

[GridCritter]

Duke

Anesthesiology
UTSW

Child Neurology
Johns Hopkins

Dermatology
Duke
Mayo- Rochester
UCSD
University of North Carolina

Family Medicine
Duke
Emory
Kaiser Permanente-San Jose

Emergency Medicine
Baylor
Boston University
Duke
Duke
Maimonides Med Ctr-NY
Medical University of South Carolina
Northwestern
University of Chicago

General Surgery
Duke
Harvard- Massachusetts General Hospital
Icahn Mount Sinai
Icahn Mount Sinai
Stanford
UCSD
UCSD
UTSW
UTSW

Internal Medicine
Boston University
Cedars-Sinai
Duke
Duke
Duke
Duke
Duke
Duke
Duke
Duke
Duke
Harvard- Brigham and Women’s Hospital
Harvard- Massachusetts General Hospital
Harvard- Massachusetts General Hospital
Johns Hopkins
Johns Hopkins
Mayo- Rochester
Scripps
Stanford
Penn
University of Washington
Vanderbilt
VCU
WashU

Internal Medicine-Peds
Duke
LSU
Harvard- Massachusetts General Hospital
University of Utah

Internal Medicine-Psychiatry
Duke
Emory

Interventional Radiology
Duke
Harvard- Massachusetts General Hospital

Neurology
WashU
Yale
Yale

Neurosurgery
Duke
Johns Hopkins
Yale

OB/GYN
Duke
Harvard- Beth Isreal Deaconess Med Ctr-MA
Harvard- Brigham and Women’s Hospital
Northwestern
Northwestern
NYU
Tufts
University of North Carolina
Wake Forest
Zucker Northwell

Ophthalmology
Duke
Harvard-Mass Eye & Ear Infirmary
UCSD
University of Miami-BPEI

Orthopaedic Surgery
Duke
Duke
NYU
Penn
Stanford
St. Mary’s Medical Center
University of Illinois COM- Chicago

Otolaryngology
Duke
Icahn Mount Sinai
Stanford
University of Miami

Pathology
University of New Mexico

Pediatrics
Northwestern
Northwestern
Stanford
University of Chicago
University of Utah

PM&R
Rutgers
UPMC

Plastics
Mayo- Rochester
NYU
University of Washington

Psychiatry
Duke
Duke
Icahn Mount Sinai West
Northwestern
Stanford
UCLA

Radiation Oncology
MD Anderson
Mayo- Phoenix

Thoracic Surgery
University of Florida

Urology
Indiana University
University of Michigan

 

[Browns99]

plastics and nsgy are more competitive than ortho?? wasn't the match rate for ortho this year like ~60%. Also wouldn't derm be the most competitive?

Yes, they are. Ortho is up there behind plastics/nsgy and ENT....derm probably rounds it out. Again, as the poster above noted, they are all highly competitive. BTW, look beyond just the match rate when considering speciality competitiveness.

 

[DukeSmith]

Is maxillofacial surgery tough to match? I thought this was dentists

 

[SpoiledMilk]

Is maxillofacial surgery tough to match? I thought this was dentists

Heck yeah! We had three at my school match. They are dentists. After acing dental school they also must do MS3/MS4 years and pass the Steps. That's why they make the big $$$.

 

[DZ2106]

Duke

Anesthesiology
UTSW

Child Neurology
Johns Hopkins

Dermatology
Duke
Mayo- Rochester
UCSD
University of North Carolina

Family Medicine
Duke
Emory
Kaiser Permanente-San Jose

Emergency Medicine
Baylor
Boston University
Duke
Duke
Maimonides Med Ctr-NY
Medical University of South Carolina
Northwestern
University of Chicago

General Surgery
Duke
Harvard- Massachusetts General Hospital
Icahn Mount Sinai
Icahn Mount Sinai
Stanford
UCSD
UCSD
UTSW
UTSW

Internal Medicine
Boston University
Cedars-Sinai
Duke
Duke
Duke
Duke
Duke
Duke
Duke
Duke
Duke
Harvard- Brigham and Women’s Hospital
Harvard- Massachusetts General Hospital
Harvard- Massachusetts General Hospital
Johns Hopkins
Johns Hopkins
Mayo- Rochester
Scripps
Stanford
Penn
University of Washington
Vanderbilt
VCU
WashU

Internal Medicine-Peds
Duke
LSU
Harvard- Massachusetts General Hospital
University of Utah

Internal Medicine-Psychiatry
Duke
Emory

Interventional Radiology
Duke
Harvard- Massachusetts General Hospital

Neurology
WashU
Yale
Yale

Neurosurgery
Duke
Johns Hopkins
Yale

OB/GYN
Duke
Harvard- Beth Isreal Deaconess Med Ctr-MA
Harvard- Brigham and Women’s Hospital
Northwestern
Northwestern
NYU
Tufts
University of North Carolina
Wake Forest
Zucker Northwell

Ophthalmology
Duke
Harvard-Mass Eye & Ear Infirmary
UCSD
University of Miami-BPEI

Orthopaedic Surgery
Duke
Duke
NYU
Penn
Stanford
St. Mary’s Medical Center
University of Illinois COM- Chicago

Otolaryngology
Duke
Icahn Mount Sinai
Stanford
University of Miami

Pathology
University of New Mexico

Pediatrics
Northwestern
Northwestern
Stanford
University of Chicago
University of Utah

PM&R
Rutgers
UPMC

Plastics
Mayo- Rochester
NYU
University of Washington

Psychiatry
Duke
Duke
Icahn Mount Sinai West
Northwestern
Stanford
UCLA

Radiation Oncology
MD Anderson
Mayo- Phoenix

Thoracic Surgery
University of Florida

Urology
Indiana University
University of Michigan

This list is nutty tbh.

Good job Duke!

 

[Kracin]

https://hscweb3.hsc.usf.edu/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Match-List-MCOM-2022.pdf

USF Morsani (Public)

 

[Gilakend]

Maybe I'm thinking about this wrong, but why do people care about "DOPEN" matches? I feel like (for US MD schools) all it is a representation of that class's interests. For example, if Harvard matched 1 student in DOPEN, that doesn't mean anything. They could have matched anyone into any specialty they want. If a T20 matched 3 people into all DOPEN specialties combined, it means nothing other than the people who graduated in that class didn't want to pursue those specialties.

I don't think any US MD school disqualifies you from matching DOPEN. I guess I could maybe (maybe), see the utility in looking at DOPEN for new or low-tier schools. But for the vast majority of MD schools it is a much bigger factor of the applicant than the school.

 

[Darrow O'Lykos]

UT Houston (McGovern)
Orthopedic Surgery 8
5 - McGovern
Methodist Hospital Houston
SUNY Upstate
John Peter Smith Ft. Worth TX

I saw at this and decided to go to McGovern's Ortho residency page and holy hell, do they love their own students. Like, replace liking mudkipz with mcgovernz and that's UTH's Ortho residency roster.

 

[DukeSmith]

Maybe I'm thinking about this wrong, but why do people care about "DOPEN" matches? I feel like (for US MD schools) all it is a representation of that class's interests. For example, if Harvard matched 1 student in DOPEN, that doesn't mean anything. They could have matched anyone into any specialty

I’m wondering if this is actually true. Like a thought experiment would be if all 80 Harvard graduates wanted to match neurosurgery or plastics, would all of them match? Or does relative performance always matter somewhat

 

[DukeSmith]

Heck yeah! We had three at my school match. They are dentists. After acing dental school they also must do MS3/MS4 years and pass the Steps. That's why they make the big $$$.

So they are DDS/MD graduates or ?

 

[SpoiledMilk]

So they are DDS/MD graduates or ?

Depending on the school, they earn a DDS (doctor of dental surgery) or DMD (doctor of dental medicine) degree and MD.

 

[Browns99]

I’m wondering if this is actually true. Like a thought experiment would be if all 80 Harvard graduates wanted to match neurosurgery or plastics, would all of them match? Or does relative performance always matter somewhat

"Does relative performance always matter somewhat," hopefully, you aren't serious. Of course performance matters and is the deciding factor, end of story. Sure, does the school pedigree matter, absolutely it can help, are you getting into plastic/neurosurgery because you went to Harvard alone, hell no!

You get into those Uber-competitive specialities by producing top grades, step scores, research, strong letters, mentor connections, perform well on interviews, etc. People match to these specialities from the upper to lower-tiered schools.

And to your original question of the experiment of 80 Harvard students, the answer again is absolutely not. Just because you attended Harvard does not make you worthy of matching plastics, neurosurgery, ortho, etc.

 

[Gilakend]

I’m wondering if this is actually true. Like a thought experiment would be if all 80 Harvard graduates wanted to match neurosurgery or plastics, would all of them match? Or does relative performance always matter somewhat

Any T20 could match any realistic number of DOPEN graduates in my opinion. My school had a relatively low-ish number for some of the DOPEN specialties this year (some of them only 1-4, others close to 10), but I know the match rate in those was 100%.

Other years we've had 10+ in 1 of the DOPEN specialties, again, the match rate for that specialty was 100%.

 

[DukeSmith]

Any T20 could match any realistic number of DOPEN graduates in my opinion. My school had a relatively low-ish number for some of the DOPEN specialties this year (some of them only 1-4, others close to 10), but I know the match rate in those was 100%.

Other years we've had 10+ in 1 of the DOPEN specialties, again, the match rate for that specialty was 100%.

What is a realistic number though?

"Does relative performance always matter somewhat," hopefully, you aren't serious. Of course performance matters and is the deciding factor, end of story. Sure, does the school pedigree matter, absolutely it can help, are you getting into plastic/neurosurgery because you went to Harvard alone, hell no!

You get into those Uber-competitive specialities by producing top grades, step scores, research, strong letters, mentor connections, perform well on interviews, etc. People match to these specialities from the upper to lower-tiered schools.

And to your original question of the experiment of 80 Harvard students, the answer again is absolutely not. Just because you attended Harvard does not make you worthy of matching plastics, neurosurgery, ortho, etc.

Obviously performance matters but I was more wondering about performance relative to others in the class at T20s. I know many don’t rank but obviously there is always going to be some sort of differential whether it comes through in research, letters, MSPE

 

[Gilakend]

What is a realistic number though?


Obviously performance matters but I was more wondering about performance relative to others in the class at T20s. I know many don’t rank but obviously there is always going to be some sort of differential whether it comes through in research, letters, MSPE

I'd say less than 15 in each speciaty. Obviously, there could be off years, but 40 people applying in 1 specialty from 1 school could get messy. They'd likely still be fine though.

 

[Gilakend]

"Does relative performance always matter somewhat," hopefully, you aren't serious. Of course performance matters and is the deciding factor, end of story. Sure, does the school pedigree matter, absolutely it can help, are you getting into plastic/neurosurgery because you went to Harvard alone, hell no!

You get into those Uber-competitive specialities by producing top grades, step scores, research, strong letters, mentor connections, perform well on interviews, etc. People match to these specialities from the upper to lower-tiered schools.

And to your original question of the experiment of 80 Harvard students, the answer again is absolutely not. Just because you attended Harvard does not make you worthy of matching plastics, neurosurgery, ortho, etc.

While you 100% should be a strong applicant in applying into a competitive specialty. T20 students 100% have a lower bar than if you go to a low-tier school.

I know people matching at T20 DOPEN programs that likely wouldn't match or would be at a community program (not that there is anything wrong with community programs, I'm saying this for the sake of stats) if they went to a low-tier MD school.

Can ANY student from Harvard go into DOPEN, no. But that 225 or 230 step 1 student from Harvard has about a 10x greater chance of matching DOPEN than the 230 from a low-tier MD.

 

[Dwan]

The truth is that most top students don't want those competitive fields, even if they are qualified, particularly because many of them are surgical. This is evidenced by the fact that nationally (per Charting Outcomes data), more AOAs or people with 250+ step scores go into IM rather than one of those specialties. They are competitive because there are a low number of spots, not because the demand is actually that high. "DOPEN" shouldn't be a criteria to determine match quality unless the institution has a weak department in one of those fields.

 

[DOVinciRobot]

Is maxillofacial surgery tough to match? I thought this was dentists

Heck yeah! We had three at my school match. They are dentists. After acing dental school they also must do MS3/MS4 years and pass the Steps. That's why they make the big $$$.

So they are DDS/MD graduates or ?

Not all OMFS have both degrees. And you don't do dental school and medical school and then apply, it's the other way around. Dental graduates apply to either 6 year combined MD/OMFS training programs or 4 year OMFS training programs. The MD doesn't actually confer any practice difference outside of academics and marketing from what I have been told by a few OMFS colleagues. We have a really robust OMFS department at my hospital with both a 6 year and 4 year track and I have a few close friends in both of them. The clinical training is exactly the same for both pathways.

 

[sammed]

While you 100% should be a strong applicant in applying into a competitive specialty. T20 students 100% have a lower bar than if you go to a low-tier school.

I know people matching at T20 DOPEN programs that likely wouldn't match or would be at a community program (not that there is anything wrong with community programs, I'm saying this for the sake of stats) if they went to a low-tier MD school.

Can ANY student from Harvard go into DOPEN, no. But that 225 or 230 step 1 student from Harvard has about a 10x greater chance of matching DOPEN than the 230 from a low-tier MD.

The truth is that most top students don't want those competitive fields, even if they are qualified, particularly because many of them are surgical. This is evidenced by the fact that nationally (per Charting Outcomes data), more AOAs or people with 250+ step scores go into IM rather than one of those specialties. They are competitive because there are a low number of spots, not because the demand is actually that high. "DOPEN" shouldn't be a criteria to determine match quality unless the institution has a weak department in one of those fields.

DOPEN Criteria does not consider the quality of programs you match

Also some top schools student do not care for DOPEN. This year let's look at 2022 Stanford match list.

The desire for Anesthesia (15 matches) is bigger than DOPEN.