Official 2010 Rank List Help Thread

[sethco]

There seem to be some prolific posters here that seem to be in the know about programs enough to rank them. Thanks to all of those that are taking time out of their lives to help us occupy our minds until match day.

Would it not theoretically be possible to just make a rank list of all of the programs based upon the logic that must hold in order for this thread to be possible? Guess we don't have THAT much time...

Best of luck to all in this ridiculous process!

Please keep in mind that these posters are only giving THEIR impression regarding reputation. Others may have different views regarding which is the better program. This doesn't even take into account just how important location is to everybody. For example, I graduated from med school in Philly and knew I didn't want to be there anymore, so UPenn didn't even make my top 5 (despite how impressed I was with the program). Another example was how uncomfortable I felt at my interview at UChicago. The pre-interview dinner was in particular terrible, as all of the residents that showed for the dinner did not seem to want to talk with any of the med studs. They just seemed extremely standoff-ish. Multiple posters have commented in the past that you will receive very good training at 95% of the programs out there. You just need to find which program you feel most comfortable in. This includes the vibe you get from the other residents that you talk to and the PD/Chair.

With all that being said, I think UPitt is the best program, but I guess I am also bias. BigDan, we will have to get a beer sometime before July when I move up to Pitt for good.

Good luck everybody with the match.

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[shift_roro]

I know the cases they get are out of this world, it just wasn't the program for me, for various reasons. It ended up being the only program I interviewed at that I didn't rank.

Different strokes for different folks...

dc

Mind sharing what those reasons were? (unless they were very personal)

I'm thinking of putting it at #2 or #3, and the fact that you chose not to rank it at all is somewhat of a red flag...

 

[tracheatoedoc]

Go where you want to live and practice.
Doing an average program is just fine.
Jus do well and read.

 

[Camel]

Please keep in mind that these posters are only giving THEIR impression regarding reputation. Others may have different views regarding which is the better program.

I was trying to (very subtly, maybe too subtly) make that very point

The reason I was being subtle is because, despite that fact, I still like to read this thread because it gives me an idea about other people's impressions. Once again, we have an illustration of what applicants must undergo in this process.

Thanks again to all!

 

[lushmd]

UPMC Mercy - did join with UPitt but doesnt go into effect until 2012 - therefore you will only get 1.5 years of it at max - mercy still selects their own residents and from the interview it seemed like didnt' really know how it's going to really work just yet - sounds like you just get a couple months with the UPitt sites/residents - but you do get a UPitt degree if that is what matters to you - program has a small feel, equipment is dated, but if you really wanna be in pittsburgh thats probably the biggest draw to it

Hey folks, sorry to break up the rank list help goodness but as a current UPMC anesthesiology resident I just wanted to clarify some of the misconceptions that seem to be circulating re the pending merger with the Mercy residency program. We recently had a meeting involving both sets of residents as well as both PDs regarding this very topic (complete with powerpoint presentation, Q+A session, etc...). Essentially, the plan is to merge the residency programs into a single program as of July 1, 2010. So, those of you matching this year (to UPMC and/or Mercy) will match into a single integrated residency class, which will rotate through multiple sites including UPMC Mercy.

This translates into the following sort of residency experience: medium size (in terms of the residency class size), university based academic program with multiple sites and high/varied clinical volume, exceptional general and subspecialty rotations, strong didactics, abundant research opportunities, etc... Given sheer clinical volume, this merger is not expected to adversely affect individual resident experience. In contrast to what was posted above, this plan is well defined and is pending ACGME approval, which is anticipated. I would be more than happy to respond to any questions you may have re this or any other aspect of the UPMC program. Best of luck with the match.


EDIT: So, I've received some questions about this post and thought that, for the sake of openness/clarity, I'd add the following re rotation sites:

(1) Asssuming that the merger is approved, Mercy would become another site available for UPMC anesthesiology residents to rotate through. From what we were told, if you'd like to do the majority of your rotations at Mercy you will be able to (the exceptions that come to mind are one month of liver transplant and one month of neuro anesthesia, both of which would be done at Presbyterian/Montefiore). Keep in mind that Mercy residents already rotate through Magee Women's Hospital for OB and Children's for peds.

(2) Likewise, if you'd like to do most of your rotations at sites other than Mercy you will be able to do that as well (the only exception that I can recall is one month of neuro anesthesia; we have a two month neuro anesthesia rotation, one month of which would be at Presby/Monte and the other at Mercy).

(3) This would apply equally to those matching this cycle at UPMC and at UPMC Mercy.

 

[amyl]

not to play devils advocate, but i for one am soooo glad i didn't listen to people who told me location is everything. i left paradise, yes paradise, for cleveland, yes cleveland. while sometimes its hard, especially in january , i am glad that i did not make location my primary criteria 'cause i think i would be missing out.
but maybe thats just me....

 

[lfesiam]

Gold posts that may help you guys during ranking time. I'm glad I was able to get feedback from some of the awesome people I met here on SDN. Everyone's preferences are different ....(but mind are along the line of the posts below)

OP: IlDestriero

"Some of my thoughts, with a caveat at the end.

Just as the quality of your undergraduate University and MCAT scores affects the competitiveness of your Medical School application and the quality of your medical school and USMLE scores affects the competitiveness of your residency application, the quality/prestige of your residency training will affect your job search and marketability. Prospective employers want to know that you can handle the workload in their practice and that you will pass your boards on the first attempt, and not become a thorn in their sides down the road. For many reasons it is in your best interest to train at the best program that you can get into. By the best program I mean a program which does very complex cases on a regular basis, easily exceeds all of their numbers and has a reasonably happy and stable resident class. If everyone that you talk to at the interview is unhappy because they are worked to death every day, given infrequent or poor lectures, and/or feel unprepared to handle challenging cases, you too will be miserable and poorly trained and would likely do better at a different (though still strong) program. Even worse would be a program where everyone barely meets their numbers or requires "creative accounting", having to send you to other hospitals for several out rotations, etc. It is one thing to say that the ICU training or pain clinic is weak and send you to another hospital for this small component of your education, it is quite another if many of your cases at your home program are ASA 1 or 2 or outpatient (or ASA 3/4 eyeballs!) and you are going out for hearts and vascular or trauma and peds cases.

However with regards to post residency competitiveness for jobs, if you are certain that you want to live in a particular area of the country you would probably increase your likelihood of finding a job there by attending the best residency program that you could in that region, unless you can match at an elite program with national name recognition. Why? Because your future employers/partners will be personally familiar with graduates of your residency program, if not graduates themselves.

One last caveat- if you are planning to relocate across the country to go to an elite program primarily for the name but intend to relocate again after residency is over, be sure that the program that you think is "elite" is actually NATIONALLY recognized as an elite program and not just regionally recognized as a superior program. It is difficult to come up with a good example but Vanderbilt or UNC may have extraordinary anesthesia programs, but coming from New England and now California, I don't know anything about them, as opposed to Mass General, Mayo, Hopkins, or Stanford who's names are known worldwide.

The fact is that pedigree, and being selected as a Chief Resident, will open doors for you. You will get an interview where others will not. You may not get the job and you almost certainly will not get a better offer, but you will get an interview just because you have Harvard Medical School or a Mass General residency on your CV. This bias will likely decrease as ones career goes on. I will not deny however that an elite degree is probably overrated. Trust that I know about that of which I speak as I was an attending for several years before returning to academia for a fellowship and I was on the job interview circuit again myself not that long ago. The network of the prestige programs is real and can only help you, now and in the future. If you've got "it" all you need is an interview to show it off.

Good luck with your difficult ranking decisions and trust your judgement. Wherever you end up, make the most of your opportunities and be a star and you will succeed."

OP: SCnH20, Thank you for your advice last year

"For those of you touting "location" as the most important thing, I think you're spot-on. That's the one thing I didn't believe when I was starting to apply that I found out to be most true. Here's what I wrote, this is from a document I made regarding the whole application process and posted on our school's Anesthesia Interest Group secure site:

Location, location, location. Read that again. I GUARANTEE you that at the end of the day, most – if not all – of the reasons you pick your top 2-3 programs will be due to location. Even though you probably don’t believe me now (Lord knows I didn’t believe it myself this time last year), just remember I said something about this and come and read this again after you’ve done a couple of interviews. Save yourself the time, expense, and trouble (especially the trouble) and be honest with yourself (and spouse/significant other) about where you want/need to go. Interviewing somewhere where you would never really want to live is going to help nobody, least of all yourself.

If you have geographic wants/needs, pay special attention to those. In general, people with children (or who may be planning on them during residency) will prefer smaller towns with good schools, safe locations, etc. (Interestingly enough, most of the residency programs at these locations are filled with….people with children compared to the big cities. Hmm…).

Conversely, single people and those without children tend to gravitate towards larger cities. It goes without saying that you will generally fit in better with fellow residents who are in situations similar to yours. I myself would not (and did not) fit in very well at programs where 80% of the residents had children. There is nothing wrong with the programs (and nothing wrong with children), it was just not a good fit for me. I would venture to guess that the converse is also true. If you think about this early on and find out the information about the locations before you apply/schedule an interview, you can save yourself some time and trouble during interview season.

Regardless, think long and hard before you apply to places (or wait and think long and hard before scheduling an interview once you get an invitation). There may be excellent programs out there that you like (Mayo was a good example for me), but would NEVER go there because of the location, or because you don’t fit in with the residents (who are more-often-than note predominately made up of one of the demographics described above).

Don’t think of the interviewing process as some sort of quest for the Holy Grail. There are probably 10-15 programs (or more) out there that would be an excellent fit for you. There are certainly tons of programs that provide great training in anesthesia (for academics, private practice, mixture of both, etc). I would think of them more as being in “tiers” of programs, and many programs in similar tiers will be, for all intents and purposes, reasonably similar.

Your job is now to decide 1) what type of location you desire; and 2) if you fit in with the other residents or not. You will quickly figure out what “tier” of programs you should be looking at by which places give you interviews (of course you should probably have backups in “lower” tiers as well as “reach” schools in higher tiers)."

 

[RedAnesthesia]

Gold posts that may help you guys during ranking time. I'm glad I was able to get feedback from some of the awesome people I met here on SDN. Everyone's preferences are different ....(but mind are along the line of the posts below)

OP: IlDestriero

"Some of my thoughts, with a caveat at the end.

Just as the quality of your undergraduate University and MCAT scores affects the competitiveness of your Medical School application and the quality of your medical school and USMLE scores affects the competitiveness of your residency application, the quality/prestige of your residency training will affect your job search and marketability. Prospective employers want to know that you can handle the workload in their practice and that you will pass your boards on the first attempt, and not become a thorn in their sides down the road. For many reasons it is in your best interest to train at the best program that you can get into. By the best program I mean a program which does very complex cases on a regular basis, easily exceeds all of their numbers and has a reasonably happy and stable resident class. If everyone that you talk to at the interview is unhappy because they are worked to death every day, given infrequent or poor lectures, and/or feel unprepared to handle challenging cases, you too will be miserable and poorly trained and would likely do better at a different (though still strong) program. Even worse would be a program where everyone barely meets their numbers or requires "creative accounting", having to send you to other hospitals for several out rotations, etc. It is one thing to say that the ICU training or pain clinic is weak and send you to another hospital for this small component of your education, it is quite another if many of your cases at your home program are ASA 1 or 2 or outpatient (or ASA 3/4 eyeballs!) and you are going out for hearts and vascular or trauma and peds cases.

However with regards to post residency competitiveness for jobs, if you are certain that you want to live in a particular area of the country you would probably increase your likelihood of finding a job there by attending the best residency program that you could in that region, unless you can match at an elite program with national name recognition. Why? Because your future employers/partners will be personally familiar with graduates of your residency program, if not graduates themselves.

One last caveat- if you are planning to relocate across the country to go to an elite program primarily for the name but intend to relocate again after residency is over, be sure that the program that you think is "elite" is actually NATIONALLY recognized as an elite program and not just regionally recognized as a superior program. It is difficult to come up with a good example but Vanderbilt or UNC may have extraordinary anesthesia programs, but coming from New England and now California, I don't know anything about them, as opposed to Mass General, Mayo, Hopkins, or Stanford who's names are known worldwide.

The fact is that pedigree, and being selected as a Chief Resident, will open doors for you. You will get an interview where others will not. You may not get the job and you almost certainly will not get a better offer, but you will get an interview just because you have Harvard Medical School or a Mass General residency on your CV. This bias will likely decrease as ones career goes on. I will not deny however that an elite degree is probably overrated. Trust that I know about that of which I speak as I was an attending for several years before returning to academia for a fellowship and I was on the job interview circuit again myself not that long ago. The network of the prestige programs is real and can only help you, now and in the future. If you've got "it" all you need is an interview to show it off.

Good luck with your difficult ranking decisions and trust your judgement. Wherever you end up, make the most of your opportunities and be a star and you will succeed."

OP: SCnH20, Thank you for your advice last year

"For those of you touting "location" as the most important thing, I think you're spot-on. That's the one thing I didn't believe when I was starting to apply that I found out to be most true. Here's what I wrote, this is from a document I made regarding the whole application process and posted on our school's Anesthesia Interest Group secure site:

Location, location, location. Read that again. I GUARANTEE you that at the end of the day, most – if not all – of the reasons you pick your top 2-3 programs will be due to location. Even though you probably don’t believe me now (Lord knows I didn’t believe it myself this time last year), just remember I said something about this and come and read this again after you’ve done a couple of interviews. Save yourself the time, expense, and trouble (especially the trouble) and be honest with yourself (and spouse/significant other) about where you want/need to go. Interviewing somewhere where you would never really want to live is going to help nobody, least of all yourself.

If you have geographic wants/needs, pay special attention to those. In general, people with children (or who may be planning on them during residency) will prefer smaller towns with good schools, safe locations, etc. (Interestingly enough, most of the residency programs at these locations are filled with….people with children compared to the big cities. Hmm…).

Conversely, single people and those without children tend to gravitate towards larger cities. It goes without saying that you will generally fit in better with fellow residents who are in situations similar to yours. I myself would not (and did not) fit in very well at programs where 80% of the residents had children. There is nothing wrong with the programs (and nothing wrong with children), it was just not a good fit for me. I would venture to guess that the converse is also true. If you think about this early on and find out the information about the locations before you apply/schedule an interview, you can save yourself some time and trouble during interview season.

Regardless, think long and hard before you apply to places (or wait and think long and hard before scheduling an interview once you get an invitation). There may be excellent programs out there that you like (Mayo was a good example for me), but would NEVER go there because of the location, or because you don’t fit in with the residents (who are more-often-than note predominately made up of one of the demographics described above).

Don’t think of the interviewing process as some sort of quest for the Holy Grail. There are probably 10-15 programs (or more) out there that would be an excellent fit for you. There are certainly tons of programs that provide great training in anesthesia (for academics, private practice, mixture of both, etc). I would think of them more as being in “tiers” of programs, and many programs in similar tiers will be, for all intents and purposes, reasonably similar.

Your job is now to decide 1) what type of location you desire; and 2) if you fit in with the other residents or not. You will quickly figure out what “tier” of programs you should be looking at by which places give you interviews (of course you should probably have backups in “lower” tiers as well as “reach” schools in higher tiers)."

Great post lfesiam. I would have liked to read that before I submitted by applications.

 

[MCYan]

Hey folks, sorry to break up the rank list help goodness but as a current UPMC anesthesiology resident I just wanted to clarify some of the misconceptions that seem to be circulating re the pending merger with the Mercy residency program. We recently had a meeting involving both sets of residents as well as both PDs regarding this very topic (complete with powerpoint presentation, Q+A session, etc...). Essentially, the plan is to merge the residency programs into a single program as of July 1, 2010. So, those of you matching this year (to UPMC and/or Mercy) will match into a single integrated residency class, which will rotate through multiple sites including UPMC Mercy.

This translates into the following sort of residency experience: medium size (in terms of the residency class size), university based academic program with multiple sites and high/varied clinical volume, exceptional general and subspecialty rotations, strong didactics, abundant research opportunities, etc... Given sheer clinical volume, this merger is not expected to adversely affect individual resident experience. In contrast to what was posted above, this plan is well defined and is pending ACGME approval, which is anticipated. I would be more than happy to respond to any questions you may have re this or any other aspect of the UPMC program. Best of luck with the match.

Does that mean UPMC and UPMC mercy will have the same rank list? Will I be at a disadvantage if I only applied to UPMC versus someone who applied to both UPMC and UPMC Mercy?

 

[lushmd]

Does that mean UPMC and UPMC mercy will have the same rank list? Will I be at a disadvantage if I only applied to UPMC versus someone who applied to both UPMC and UPMC Mercy?

The official word on this was that, as the programs have not yet merged, there will still be two separate, independently derived rank lists. Assuming that the merger is approved by the ACGME (which is expected but, as with anything, not guaranteed), I suppose that from a sheer statistical perspective that someone who interviewed at both programs might have a slight edge (I say slight edge as, at least based on the applicants I met at interview dinners/lunches, it seems that most people don't interview at both programs). Having said that, given the nature of the match (although it seems like a somewhat capricious process, it is designed such that you should rank programs based solely on order of preference without paying heed to likelihood of matching), I would suggest that you not let any theoretical disadvantage affect your rank list (and again, I say theoretical as the merger has not yet been approved).

 

[lushmd]

As with lfesiam, I agree that programs generally fall into tiers based on caliber, reputation, quality of training, and gut feel/gestalt, etc... My approach was to then rank programs within tiers based largely on location. Of course, being single I had a bit of flexibility in this regard. Nonetheless, not an unreasonable approach.

 

[bigdan]

BigDan, we will have to get a beer sometime before July when I move up to Pitt for good.

Yes. Yes we will have to do that. Looking forward to it!

dc

 

[5twilight5]

So my list is this: Think I will put the categoricals first because only applied to TYs...had more interviews but please help with these!UMiamiUIC UH CaseWayne StateBeaumontUMichiganCleveland ClinicOSUUCincinnatiSt. LukesSt. VincentsUMissouri Kansas CityUtoledoVCUTufts BUJeffersonGWThanks so much!GW - has it become a categorical!?

 

[amyl]

ccf first of course.
the rest, well why bother?
;-)
no seriously, of your list that i know: ccf, umich, vcu, miami, osu, cinnci, in that order, then probably lots of other programs and then toledo.
if you have questions -- feel free to pm me, i am a ca-1 at ccf

 

[Vapor]

Beaumont
Case Western (MetroHealth)
Temple
Drexel
Jefferson
UMDNJ - Camden
UMDNJ - Newark
Tufts (Baystate)
St. Barnabas
St. Joseph's
LSU - Shreveport
UMiss-Kansas City

Anyone have any recommendations?

LSU > Kansas City > Philly > etc.. in terms of weather (I assume)

Philly > North Jersey > Mass. > Kansas > LSU etc in terms of mainstream/yuppy cultural attractions and living

Anyone agree or disagree? How about prestige or caliber of residency?

 

[lfesiam]

So my list is this: Think I will put the categoricals first because only applied to TYs...had more interviews but please help with these!UMiamiUIC UH CaseWayne StateBeaumontUMichiganCleveland ClinicOSUUCincinnatiSt. LukesSt. VincentsUMissouri Kansas CityUtoledoVCUTufts BUJeffersonGWThanks so much!GW - has it become a categorical!?

This is a hard list to rank...

1. CCF - probably best reputation, must like cold winter
2. UMich vs. UMiami(south beach, must be proficient in spanish)
3. St. Lukes - AWESOME location
4. VCU vs. Jefferson vs. GW
5. Mizzou


Giving location a bit more weight:
1. UMiami vs. St. Lukes
2. UMich
3. Jefferson vs. GW
4. Mizzou vs. VCU vs. CCF

 

[lfesiam]

Beaumont
Case Western (MetroHealth)
Temple
Drexel
Jefferson
UMDNJ - Camden
UMDNJ - Newark
Tufts (Baystate)
St. Barnabas
St. Joseph's
LSU - Shreveport
UMiss-Kansas City

Anyone have any recommendations?

LSU > Kansas City > Philly > etc.. in terms of weather (I assume)

Philly > North Jersey > Mass. > Kansas > LSU etc in terms of mainstream/yuppy cultural attractions and living

Anyone agree or disagree? How about prestige or caliber of residency?

Philly is the place to be dude. Went to penn, lived there for 5 years, love center city/old city.

1. Jefferson would be my number 1 according to your list.
2. Mizzou, Kansas City is also pretty nice and way underrated for the yuppy factor, cheap too.

 

[chaucer]

anybody have thoughts on penn vs columbia vs mt sinai???

 

[lushmd]

anybody have thoughts on penn vs columbia vs mt sinai???

All great programs, IMO it comes down to NYC vs Philly. Of the NYC programs you have listed, both are exceptional and I would go based on gut feel/which program I liked more.

 

[bonesmd]

Okay, my turn

Duke
Vandy
UAB
Emory
MUSC
Scott and White
UTMB
UT Houston
Tulane
LSU-New Orleans

 

[lushmd]

Okay, my turn

Duke
Vandy
UAB
Emory
MUSC
Scott and White
UTMB
UT Houston
Tulane
LSU-New Orleans

I'd say Duke, Vanderbilt, Emory, MUSC, UAB, UT Houston, and then the rest of the programs, which I'm not familiar with.

 

[anesguy]

What order would you all put these in?

Brigham & Womens
Duke
Northwestern
WashU
UChicago
MGH

Interested in staying in Chicago...

 

[switching2gas]

What order would you all put these in?

Brigham & Womens
Duke
Northwestern
WashU
UChicago
MGH

Interested in staying in Chicago...

If you want to stay in Chicago, you should rank NW and UChicago first. Asking what our opinions are of that list in terms of anything else should be a moot point for you since they're all fabulous programs. If it were me, and I wanted to stay in Chicago, I would rank them as follows:
1. NW
2. UChicago
3. MGH or Brigham
4. MGH or Brigham
5. Duke
6. WashU

Presumably, if you love Chicago, you'll like living in other big cities too which is why I suggested MGH/BWH as your next two slots. But location should reign over all other considerations when looking at six excellent programs.

 

[Lurch]

Stanford, Duke, Mayo(Rochester)

Especially interested in Critical Care.

Thanks

 

[Dr IHTFP]

Would appreciate everyone's thoughts on my list:

Duke
Michigan
Penn
OHSU
UNC
UW
Pitt
Vandy

Thanks!

 

[Maxfli]

Would greatly appreciate anyone's thoughts on my list. No preference to location.

U of Chicago
Illinois-Chicago
Baystate
Cincinnati
Ohio State
VCU
West Penn
Case(Metro)
UPMC
Clev Clinic
Arizona
Penn State

 

[Mista Suprane]

Would greatly appreciate anyone's thoughts on my list. No preference to location.

U of Chicago
Illinois-Chicago
Baystate
Cincinnati
Ohio State
VCU
West Penn
Case(Metro)
UPMC
Clev Clinic
Arizona
Penn State

caveat: just my opinion - no more, no less:

1. UPMC (truly one of the best in the country, no weaknesses)
2. CCF vs. Penn
3. Penn State vs. UChicago
4. West Penn (i've heard from many people that chris troianos has made this an university caliber program)
5. the rest....

 

[Mista Suprane]

Would appreciate everyone's thoughts on my list:

Duke
Michigan
Penn
OHSU
UNC
UW
Pitt
Vandy

Thanks!

recognizing that everyone has their own idea of what a good location is (some people like trendy cities, others like having a large 3-acre lot and a huge house, others just want to be close to home), and that any program on your list will provide you with excellent training, i will leave both those factors out.

1. Penn = UPMC
2. Duke = OHSU = Michigan
3. UW = Vandy = UNC

 

[lfesiam]

Would greatly appreciate anyone's thoughts on my list. No preference to location.

U of Chicago
Illinois-Chicago
Baystate
Cincinnati
Ohio State
VCU
West Penn
Case(Metro)
UPMC
Clev Clinic
Arizona
Penn State

1. UPMC
2. CCF
3. Arizona (Tucson is awesome!)
4. Chicago Programs
5. VCU
the rest

 

[lfesiam]

Would appreciate everyone's thoughts on my list:

Duke
Michigan
Penn
OHSU
UNC
UW
Pitt
Vandy

Thanks!

Awesome list.

1. OHSU (this was my #1 last year)
2. UPMC
3. Duke vs. Penn
4. Mich vs UW
5. Vandy

 

[lfesiam]

Stanford, Duke, Mayo(Rochester)

Especially interested in Critical Care.

Thanks

1. Mayo (slight edge on "world" recognized name) vs. Stanford (better location)

2. Duke

 

[stimmed]

Would appreciate everyone's thoughts on my list:

Duke
Michigan
Penn
OHSU
UNC
UW
Pitt
Vandy

Thanks!

Interesting, very broad list. Depends on what you prioritize:

beautiful location: OHSU, UW
big city location: Penn, Pitt
small city location: Michigan, Vandy, UNC
name: Michigan, Duke, UW, Penn have a slight edge (others have great names, dont get me wrong)
schedule: Pitt, Michigan (barring intern year)

Personally it would probably come down to Michigan vs UW for me based primarily on location/schedule/people/vibe since their names are pretty similarly awesome. Then Duke vs OHSU.

 

[5twilight5]

This is a hard list to rank...

1. CCF - probably best reputation, must like cold winter
2. UMich vs. UMiami(south beach, must be proficient in spanish)
3. St. Lukes - AWESOME location
4. VCU vs. Jefferson vs. GW
5. Mizzou


Giving location a bit more weight:
1. UMiami vs. St. Lukes
2. UMich
3. Jefferson vs. GW
4. Mizzou vs. VCU vs. CCF

Thanks for the input! What I want out of a program is to see everything but also be in a residency program where the residents and attendings are cool and I can hang out with outside of work...would you still put these programs in the same order?

THANKS AGAIN

 

[ucla41]

Thoughts on these:
Baylor
UCLA
Stanford
Arizona
UT Houston
UTSW
NYU
Miami
UTMB
Utah
Case Western
MCW

 

[slivki]

deleted

 

[Vapor]

Thoughts on these:
Baylor
UCLA
Stanford
Arizona
UT Houston
UTSW
NYU
Miami
UTMB
Utah
Case Western
MCW

I heard extremely good things on the trail about UT Houston. Tucson is a great place to train according to some upperclassmen who matched there last year. Obviously, NYU/Stanford/UCLA are easy names to recognize so give you a little bit of brand name. The others.. meh..

 

[Sdp]

1. UPMC (truly one of the best in the country, no weaknesses)
2. CCF vs. Penn
3. Penn State vs. UChicago

1. Penn = UPMC
2. Duke = OHSU = Michigan
3. UW = Vandy = UNC

1. UPMC

Awesome list.

1. OHSU (this was my #1 last year)
2. UPMC
3. Duke vs. Penn
4. Mich vs UW
5. Vandy

I am extremely intrigued by how highly Pitt is regarded by residents on SDN. Anyone else notice this?

My (possibly erroneous) preconceived notions:

1. Pitt = probably a good program, but not a "NAME"...yet some consider it better than Duke, Penn, UChicago (which are all very good programs with a name). Not saying name is everything as I'm also ranking some lesser-known programs above names for various reasons.
2. Pittsburgh = as a city, always thought it was a dealbreaker. Most of the "wisemen" say pick programs based on where you want to live later. People want to live in Pittsburgh? Are these opinions regional?


Disclaimer: I have neither applied nor interviewed at Pitt so I'm not trying to jockey for position. I'm also not trying to start a flame war against Pitt, just wanted to open up discussion on an interesting topic.

Thanks.

 

[anesguy]

Nobody seems to be ranking (or even really discussing) Chicago programs? Are people turned off by this part of the country? Are the programs not at the same level as East/West Coast programs? Just curious about your thoughts.

 

[RedAnesthesia]

Nobody seems to be ranking (or even really discussing) Chicago programs? Are people turned off by this part of the country? Are the programs not at the same level as East/West Coast programs? Just curious about your thoughts.

I think there are some quality programs in Chicago but the cost of living is ridiculous in Chicago and many of the residents I met in Chicago seemed overworked. Just my two cents

 

[bigdan]

Re: UPMC*

*Disclaimer: I admit extreme bias upfront

I, of course, think that UPMC offers training that cannot be bettered by any program. There's a short list of programs that provide training similar to UPMC, but I did not encounter training that, in total, was better. When I ranked them, I felt comfortable that I would get the best training available if I matched there; I did feel pretty sure that I would get incredible training at my number two program too. So the things I felt set Pitt apart were personal preference:
- people were extremely important to me. I met incredible people all over the interview trail, and in general anesthesiology folks aren't all that tough to deal with. UPMC had, to my view, kind and earnest folks. The residents seemed VERY happy with their choice to do residency there...not just "Yup - I'd rank 'em again"; they seemed happy while working. After I began to see my rank list take shape, I emailed a bunch of residents on the trail about their opinions of their respective programs. Most responded, but the UPMC guys gave me very detailed, honest replies. I appreciated that.
- emphasis on my education was very important to me (and I suppose everyone will say that); UPMC has class-specific lectures that you are guaranteed to be broken out for. There is frequent simulation training, weekly Grand Rounds/Journal Club, and mock orals for every subspecialty rotation. Book fund of $600/yr, for each of the 3 yrs (4yrs if you do the CBY). The most important thing - the case volumes/exposures - is awesome. We might not get the "most" or the "only", but we get exposure to everything.
- emphasis on my well-being was fairly important to me. I didn't need (or even want) the world's easiest residency. But I still failed to see why I needed to be in a room at 8pm if not on call. At UPMC, the manpower exists to get you out at a reasonable hour every day. Call is 16 hrs, with post-call day off of course. For most scheduled general anesthesia months, you work two weekend days in a row (12 hrs each), and then have the other 3 weekends free. Don't get me wrong - I went past 30 hrs a coupla times on my ICU rotation, and you still have to pre-op when you leave the OR, then look up your pts for tomorrow, then call your attending. But in total, it looked like a manageable lifestyle to me, all things considered.
- location was sort of important to me. I grew up in upstate NY, where my parents, siblings, and niece and nephew still are. While I interviewed from New York to Florida, closer to home as opposed to farther would have nice. In specific regards to Pittsburgh, I too have heard that it's a deal breaker for some. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. It's a small city feel, with big city options. Very active sports scene, stuff for young and old, reasonable cultural stuff, etc. I went to school on Long Island, so I was looking for a respite from traffic and high cost of living, and perhaps even some, um, "more assertive" mannerisms. So considering all those things, Pittsburgh sat well with me. And I am extremely happy here now.
- Program name was important to me, but not overly so. And good thing. Two faculty members apologized to me on Match Day, and told me they thought I "deserved better". They were speechless when I mentioned I ranked UPMC first. I'm still considering academics as a career option, so matching at some of the programs ranked lower on my list might have improved my "pedigree", but again, it was important for me to be as happy as possible as I could in residency.
- Research rigor was not important to me. I am very interested in research, but wanted to go at my own pace - even if that was no pace at all. That said, with all of the programs I ranked in the 5, or even top 7, places on my list, offered a ton of opportunity to do research. UPMC Anesthesiology is (I think) the number 5 NIH-funded department. 6 months into INTERN YEAR, I have authored a review book chapter and am part of a group that just submitted an IRB for some airway research. There's a ton going on here if you want it - not just in Anesthesiology, but Critical Care, and the entire undergrad/grad campus of University of Pittsburgh as well.

I didn't expect perfect, and UPMC isn't. And I was blessed with an embarrassment of riches on the trail - any of my first 5 or 6 would have made me very happy. But I thought UPMC was tops. And I think it offers everything a resident in anesthesiology could want.

So, for what it's worth, there's one man's opinion on what I think is the best program in the country.

dc

 

[Mista Suprane]

I am extremely intrigued by how highly Pitt is regarded by residents on SDN. Anyone else notice this?

My (possibly erroneous) preconceived notions:

1. Pitt = probably a good program, but not a "NAME"...yet some consider it better than Duke, Penn, UChicago (which are all very good programs with a name). Not saying name is everything as I'm also ranking some lesser-known programs above names for various reasons.
2. Pittsburgh = as a city, always thought it was a dealbreaker. Most of the "wisemen" say pick programs based on where you want to live later. People want to live in Pittsburgh? Are these opinions regional?


Disclaimer: I have neither applied nor interviewed at Pitt so I'm not trying to jockey for position. I'm also not trying to start a flame war against Pitt, just wanted to open up discussion on an interesting topic.

Thanks.

1. penn, sure, but uchicago/duke probably have same "name" as UPMC.

2. seems like the interview trail is full of people that are enamored with boston/NYC/SF/philly/chicago; young/single/etc. not a bad way to go, but really after those places, you are sacrificing something in location. pittsburgh is no worse than any of the rest - i lived there for two years.

looked at the places you interviewed at - definitely a better location than new haven, ann arbor, and cleveland. i would include the texas places too, but i'm guessing you are from there, and wanting to stay close to home (especially with the great programs there) is a good enough reason....

RE: your disclaimer - maybe you should have!

 

[Sdp]

Re: UPMC*

*Disclaimer: I admit extreme bias upfront


I didn't expect perfect, and UPMC isn't. And I was blessed with an embarrassment of riches on the trail - any of my first 5 or 6 would have made me very happy. But I thought UPMC was tops. And I think it offers everything a resident in anesthesiology could want.

So, for what it's worth, there's one man's opinion on what I think is the best program in the country.

dc

Awesome post! I'm definitely starting to wish I had applied to Pitt..

 

[lfesiam]

Awesome post! I'm definitely starting to wish I had applied to Pitt..

UPMC critical care is amazing up to par with nation's best. Very solid in pretty much everything.

Pittsburgh is a cool city but driving there without a GPS is HORRENDOUS if you don't know the roads real well. Shadyside, Walnut St area is awesome. Downtown is meh. Pitt got a trader's joe and Ikea. Southside got some cool bars. Ranked it high last year because of family members in area. Winter super cold though.

 

[Sdp]

1. penn, sure, but uchicago/duke probably have same "name" as UPMC.

2. seems like the interview trail is full of people that are enamored with boston/NYC/SF/philly/chicago; young/single/etc. not a bad way to go, but really after those places, you are sacrificing something in location. pittsburgh is no worse than any of the rest - i lived there for two years.

looked at the places you interviewed at - definitely a better location than new haven, ann arbor, and cleveland. i would include the texas places too, but i'm guessing you are from there, and wanting to stay close to home (especially with the great programs there) is a good enough reason....

RE: your disclaimer - maybe you should have!

Wow! You really think Pitt has the brand name of Duke/UChicago? Forgive my skepticism but I think BigDan's post illustrates that you may be in the minority on this one. If anyone thinks I'm grossly mistaken, feel free to call me out.

Also, you may have a false impression of where I interviewed. I stopped posting on the interview thread in early October because of STEP2 studying, hard rotations, interviews, etc. I was very fortunate to have received more invites than I could possibly go to ie. I definitely did not and hope I never have to go to Cleveland. My apologies to those who love Cleveland.

Anyway, sounds like you got yourself an awesome program. Good luck.

 

[bigdan]

Wow! You really think Pitt has the brand name of Duke/UChicago? Forgive my skepticism but I think BigDan's post illustrates that you may be in the minority on this one. If anyone thinks I'm grossly mistaken, feel free to call me out.

In my opinion, and mine only, I really think there is a VERY short list of "Names", and those programs vary by whom you talk to. Quite frankly, I think Harvard and Hopkins are probably the only two names in medicine that impress everyone, everywhere.

Don't forget that I went to school in NYC area, where at times it seemed that folks had a real fear that life ended with movement any further west than the Hudson River at the edge of Manhattan. One of the guys in my class interviewed for radiology programs - including the Wash U Mallinckrodt, here at Pittsburgh, and Hopkins. He matched at his NINTH ranked program, a small one in NY, because he put ALL of the NY area programs first; he felt like he HAD to be in NY.

I don't mean to babble; my point is: it's all relative, and all opinion. I think UPMC = Duke, anesthesiology-wise. Please don't mistake the naivety of others as me slighting UPMC.

dc

 

[SexPanther]

I'd say Duke, Vanderbilt, Emory, MUSC, UAB, UT Houston, and then the rest of the programs, which I'm not familiar with.

Given my obvious bias, I'd say Vandy then Duke but it probably comes down to living in Durham vs. Nashville.

 

[ranvier]

penn state is head and shoulders above the other programs on this list, but i'm sure you already knew that. i guess i would put wayne state next; after that, i'm not sure.

I liked the presentation at Wayne State. It was an early interview and I didn't have ACGME cycle length on my radar yet. Turns out, they have a 2-year cycle...not sure why.

 

[lushmd]

Given my obvious bias, I'd say Vandy then Duke but it probably comes down to living in Durham vs. Nashville.

Nothing personal SexPanther, just my opinion. When I interviewed a couple of years back I rather liked both programs. And, much as I like NC, Nashville's a very cool city.

 

[Scorpio23]

Please help with these, curious of reputation and quality of life as a resident. I know it's all subjective anyway!!

Loyola
Tufts
Temple
Maimonides
Thomas Jefferson
Westchester Medical
Drexel
U Mass
St. Lukes

 

[Mista Suprane]

In my opinion, and mine only, I really think there is a VERY short list of "Names", and those programs vary by whom you talk to.

shortlist - MGH, BWH, JHU, Penn, Mayo, UCSF, Stanford

Don't forget that I went to school in NYC area, where at times it seemed that folks had a real fear that life ended with movement any further west than the Hudson River at the edge of Manhattan.

these are the people i'm talking about - people seem to mistake competitiveness with quality of program; chicago/NYC programs have this problem.

I think UPMC = Duke, anesthesiology-wise.