ODs doing surgery?

[DrDavid]

I've been meaning to reply to this thread for months, but couldn't find time until now. I'm not sure if anyone has equated ODs to OMFS doing surgery, but I know OMFS is more than qualified to do what they do and more than qualified to earn both MD and DDS/DMD.

To be an OMFS (from my family OMFS):
After 4 years of dental school, it's one year of internship which is a rigorous schedule including calls, and somewhere in that crazy schedule, manage to pass USMLE STEP 1.

After passing Step 1, they have to do last two years of medical school (Years 3 & 4) and pass USMLE Step 2.

After graduating from medical school and receive their MD degree in addition to DDS/DMD, they spend another 2 years in a general surgery residency program and pass USMLE Step 3.

Finally, they do another 3 years of OMFS residency.

So, perhaps OD graduates can do a year of basic medical scicence + 2 years of clinical medicine in medical school, pass both step 1 & 2. Do another year of medicine/surgery internship and pass step 3. Then do another 3 years of ophthol residency.

Just a thought. (Sorry, for lurking around...)

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[exmike]

So, perhaps OD graduates can do a year of basic medical scicence + 2 years of clinical medicine in medical school, pass both step 1 & 2. Do another year of medicine/surgery internship and pass step 3. Then do another 3 years of ophthol residency.

Just a thought. (Sorry, for lurking around...)

so basically they should go to medical school

 

[Mirror Form]

So, perhaps OD graduates can do a year of basic medical scicence + 2 years of clinical medicine in medical school, pass both step 1 & 2. Do another year of medicine/surgery internship and pass step 3. Then do another 3 years of ophthol residency.

OMFS get's an MD! I think if such a program was set up for OD's, then OD's could do surgery b/c then they wouldn't just be OD's anymore, they'd be MD's too.

 

[aphistis]

OMFS get's an MD! I think if such a program was set up for OD's, then OD's could do surgery b/c then they wouldn't just be OD's anymore, they'd be MD's too.

NOT all oral & maxillofacial surgeons have an MD, and acquiring the medical degree has no effect on scope of practice. Obtaining an MD is 100% a function of which program you attend, and has no implication or reflection upon one's competence as an OMS.

Besides, as several people here have already said, dentistry 1) has been a heavily surgical profession its entire existence, and 2) is the only shop in town for many of the problems we treat. Using dentistry's scope of practice as a justification for broadening optometry's just isn't a valid comparison, simply because with the exception of a relative few aggressive OMS'es, we don't have to worry about sharing the sandbox with anybody.

 

[rickard]

If the ODs want to do surgery than they should be subject to the same training as the MDs. The MDs go through 4 years of college ( lots of work to keep grades up) take the MCAT (lots of work to get a high score) and then go through AMCAS application, finally through medical school and then 4 years of residency. Not to mention that in order to get a residency spot they have to have high scores on the Boards and to be at the top of their class. All this training gives them the right to do surgery.
But then the ODs come along and claim the right to do surgery. I ask you then what is the purpose of going through medical school and residency, if someone with limitted training can come along and claim rights to do surgery?
I am not into ophto, but I went through the application to medical school. The whole road to becoming a doctor, any type of doctor, is hard. We work hard to earn the priviledge to practice medicine! I don't agree with anyone having less training coming along and trying to obtain the same priviledges as the people who went through the long years of training.
If the ODs are allowed to do surgery with only the limited training that they have now, then maybe we should get a butcher, train him for a year or so, and then allow him to do neurosurgery. Maybe it will work.
I am really revolted to the thought that some people would resort to something like this! If ODs want to have certain priviledges then they should go through medical school and residency and work hard to earn those priviledges!

Fritz.

I think one of the main issues that needs to be clarified here is how "surgery" is defined. The current ophthalmology advertisements ("only surgeons should do surgery") heard on the radio and so forth are misleading the public into thinking that optometrists are wanting to perform highly invasive procedures similar to those done by ophthalmologists. Optometrists in Oklahoma have no desire to perform and will never receive the training to perform such procedures as cataract surgery, cosmetic surgery, retinal surgery, or corneal surgery, etc. Optometrists in Oklahoma do receive training to remove eyelid growths and cysts, lashes, and foreign bodies. Yet, these minor procedures that Oklahoma optometrists have been performing for years are considered "surgeries". Oklahoma optometrists receive the proper amount of training to perform these procedures and are NOT trying to "obtain the same privileges" held by the ophthalmologists (who I highly admire for their many years of dedication and hard work that they must put into medical school). By the way, why in the world would optometrists try expand their scope of practice to include such invasive procedures that they are not qualified to do when they are putting their own licenses at risk to be revoked????

 

[Andrew_Doan]

Optometrists in Oklahoma do receive training to remove eyelid growths and cysts, lashes, and foreign bodies. Yet, these minor procedures that Oklahoma optometrists have been performing for years are considered "surgeries".

PRK is not minor.

Some Oklahoma optometrists are doing blephs and pterygium removal according to sources within OK.

Although not permitted today, the goal of OK optometry is to do cataract surgery.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

My apologies if this has been posted elsewhere, but is there any proof (web-based of otherwise) where an optometric group states that they wish to do cataract extractions? As has been stated, optometrists are not trained to do this and they tend to know it (with a few exceptions, as with all things). I'm prepared to be wrong on this, but I'll be very surprised if the Oklahoma Board of Optometrists grants licence for anything past laser work like YAGs or ALTs (and I'm slightly skeptical of this).
All this having been said, I'm open to any proof that shows me to be in error. But, merely saying "OK optometrists want to do retinal detachments" is hardly conclusive. Cited sources please, we are, after all, an academic community.

 

[Andrew_Doan]

Is there any proof (web-based of otherwise) where an optometric group states that they wish to do cataract extractions? As has been stated, optometrists are not trained to do this and they tend to know it (with a few exceptions, as with all things). I'm prepared to be wrong on this, but I'll be very surprised if the Oklahoma Board of Optometrists grants licence for anything past laser work like YAGs or ALTs (and I'm slightly skeptical of this).
All this having been said, I'm open to any proof that shows me to be in error. But, merely saying "OK optometrists want to do retinal detachments" is hardly conclusive. Cited sources please, we are, after all, an academic community.

To blatantly state that "Optometry will do cataract surgery" will be certain death for their political movement. Their strategy is similar to how other non-MD groups have been able to gain more scope of practice expansion: dilating drops one year, then medicine drops, then oral medications, then "minor" procedures, then "minor" surgery, and then cataract surgery. With baby-steps, it's easier for the public and government to grant them their ultimate goal of replacing the general medical/surgical ophthalmologist. The only source I have to support this is from an old 1994 Optometry PAC letter provided to me:

Excerpt from a 1994 optometry PAC solicitation letter from the Oklahoma ODs in Action:

We can eliminate ophthalmology from this state and prove to the nation that optometry can provide total medical and surgical treatment for the eye . . . We honestly believe that optometry can provide most (if not all) surgical eye care by 2000 . . . Ophthalmology is so weak politically that we see smooth sailing to the control of eye care in this state . . . In order to place our people in key decision making posiitions, we need your support now. Fortunately, ophthalmology is well behind us. As usual they're too busy making the big bucks to think past the first base. Our sources tell us they've done nothing at the state level regarding legislation. We'll trounce them."

I'll be very surprised if the Oklahoma Board of Optometrists grants licence for anything past laser work like YAGs or ALTs (and I'm slightly skeptical of this).

I'm sure you'll be surprised, or have you ignored the fact that the Oklahoma Board of Optometry has already granted their members the right to perform photorefractive keratectomy (PRK)?! In fact, Oklahoma is the ONLY state allowing optometrists to use lasers to ablate the surface of the eye. Surface ablation of the cornea is a surgical procedure and is beyond "laser work like YAGs or ALTs". BTW, Oklahoma is the ONLY state allowing optometrists to perform YAGs and ALTs. This has been their scope of practice since 1998.

http://www.state.ok.us/~optometry/law581_598.htm#definition


Section 581. Practice of Optometry - Definition
(Top of Page)
A) The practice of optometry is defined to be the science and art of examining the human eye and measurement of the powers of vision by the employment of any means, including the use or furnishing of any self-testing device, the use of any computerized or automatic refracting device, the use of pharmaceutical agents, the diagnosis of conditions of the human eye and the correcting and relief of ocular abnormalities by means including but not limited to prescribing and adaption of lenses, contact lenses, spectacles, eyeglasses, prisms and the employment of vision therapy or orthoptics for the aid thereof, low vision rehabilitation, laser surgery procedures, excluding retina, laser in-situ keratomileusis (LASIK), and cosmetic lid surgery.
B) The practice of optometry shall also include the prescribing of dangerous drugs and controlled dangerous substances for all schedules specified in the Uniform Controlled Dangerous Substances Act except Schedules I and II for the purpose of diagnosis and treatment of ocular abnormalities. The practice of optometry shall not include the dispensing of drugs but may include the dispensing of professional samples to patients.
C) Optometrists shall be certified by the Board of Examiners in Optometry prior to administering drugs, prescribing drugs, or performing laser surgery procedures.
D) Nothing in this title shall be construed as allowing any agency, board, or other entity of this state other than the Board of Examiners in Optometry to determine what constitutes the practice of optometry.