Odds for IM at MGH

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srirachamayonnaise

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MS3 at a T5.
2 first author papers in a surgical sub-speciality
School is pass/fail through out with no internal ranking or MSPE adjective. There's no AOA here either.
Haven't taken Steps yet, but assume passing Step 1 and decent score on Step 2.
No red flag.
Strong tie to the NE region.

What are my odds for IM at MGH?

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Depends on what you're like in real life.
Normal and social person. If any reference helps, for med school I interviewed at about 13 top schools and got into 10 of them right off the bat. So I assume no one would think I am a psychopath.
 
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Normal and social person. If any reference helps, for med school I interviewed at about 13 top schools and got into 10 of them right off the bat. So I assume no one would think I am a psychopath.
My only experience with IM at MGH is through students who have done away rotations there over the years. It seems a rather polarizing environment. Even some of our best/brightest and most ambitious have come back and said "not for me." You may not get a feel for your odds until you do a rotation there and figure out if it's your kind of place.
 
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My only experience with IM at MGH is through students who have done away rotations there over the years. It seems a rather polarizing environment. Even some of our best/brightest and most ambitious have come back and said "not for me." You may not get a feel for your odds until you do a rotation there and figure out if it's your kind of place.
Is an away required for IM? Can you elaborate a bit on what you mean by “polarizing?”
 
Is an away required for IM? Can you elaborate a bit on what you mean by “polarizing?”
Of course an away is not required for IM. But when you’re aiming for MGH or any of the top programs they become as competitive as a surgical sub.

There is also no functional difference between MGH, the Big Four, or really any of the other “top tier” IM programs. With your pedigree you are very likely to get into a very good program, and it will more or less be a crapshoot and based on your interviews as to where exactly you match. As alluded to, an away at another “top tier” program like your own would help as then you have multiple institutions vouching for you. But I suspect you would match well regardless
 
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Of course an away is not required for IM. But when you’re aiming for MGH or any of the top programs they become as competitive as a surgical sub.

There is also no functional difference between MGH, the Big Four, or really any of the other “top tier” IM programs. With your pedigree you are very likely to get into a very good program, and it will more or less be a crapshoot and based on your interviews as to where exactly you match. As alluded to, an away at another “top tier” program like your own would help as then you have multiple institutions vouching for you. But I suspect you would match well regardless
What exactly are the top tier programs? Yale or NYP/Weill are still considered top?
 
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Isn’t this asking like what are the odds of a top applicant getting into Harvard, Yale, or Princeton for undergrad. Probably a good chance for one of MGH, BWH, UCSF, JHU but impossible to say which will come to fruition
 
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Isn’t this asking like what are the odds of a top applicant getting into Harvard, Yale, or Princeton for undergrad. Probably a good chance for one of MGH, BWH, UCSF, JHU but impossible to say which will come to fruition
Of course no one knows for sure.
 
I don't really understand this thread. The only information we have is that OP goes to a top school and has non-IM research. Everything is P/F. So is every UCSF/Hopkins grad now on the shortlist for MGH IM? Plenty of Harvard grads, who have loads of connections at MGH, match BI or other somewhat lower ranked programs around the country or even in the same area. I know names go a long way, but if I were a top PD I'd be looking for something other than a top med school. All we know about you is that from 18-22 or so you performed extremely well on tests and in classes. Usually this translates to other skills. Not always, and especially not always in medicine, where the difference between a top and mid-tier candidate is not so great and many other skills come into play.

Seems like you'll have to distinguish yourself in some way OP. You don't have to be a superstar like someone coming from a lower ranked school, but seems like a high step 2 score and a good connection to MGH IM are probably the minimum before anyone can say you have a great shot.
 
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I don't really understand this thread. The only information we have is that OP goes to a top school and has non-IM research. Everything is P/F. So is every UCSF/Hopkins grad now on the shortlist for MGH IM? Plenty of Harvard grads, who have loads of connections at MGH, match BI or other somewhat lower ranked programs around the country or even in the same area. I know names go a long way, but if I were a top PD I'd be looking for something other than a top med school. All we know about you is that from 18-22 or so you performed extremely well on tests and in classes. Usually this translates to other skills. Not always, and especially not always in medicine, where the difference between a top and mid-tier candidate is not so great and many other skills come into play.

Seems like you'll have to distinguish yourself in some way OP. You don't have to be a superstar like someone coming from a lower ranked school, but seems like a high step 2 score and a good connection to MGH IM are probably the minimum before anyone can say you have a great shot.

Most Harvard grads actually end up in the tip top tier, none went to BI last year - seems more like those who don't go to the tip top may do so out of preference (as sometimes happens at every top/mid/low tier med school), just from the numbers. 12 MGH matches with about 34/39 in the very top tier (BWH, MGH, Stanford, Duke, Columbia, JHU and Penn).

Internal Medicine
BWH (9)
NYU
MGH (12)
University of Colorado
Stanford (6)
Duke
Columbia (3)
Johns Hopkins
Penn (2)
Dartmouth
Vanderbilt
Cornell
 
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So is every UCSF/Hopkins grad now on the shortlist for MGH IM?
...yes? Thats how med school works. You do well on the MCAT -> you get into a top med school for that reason -> you are a shoe in for any residency you want because you went to a top med school
 
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Def do an away there and see if the culture suits you. University medical culture in the East can be, let's say stressful. I think the word toxic is over used, but it might not be a warm and fuzzy experience. Gotta see if it's a good fit for you. You're going to spend several years there.
 
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Most Harvard grads actually end up in the tip top tier, none went to BI last year - seems more like those who don't go to the tip top may do so out of preference (as sometimes happens at every top/mid/low tier med school), just from the numbers. 12 MGH matches with about 34/39 in the very top tier (BWH, MGH, Stanford, Duke, Columbia, JHU and Penn).

Internal Medicine
BWH (9)
NYU
MGH (12)
University of Colorado
Stanford (6)
Duke
Columbia (3)
Johns Hopkins
Penn (2)
Dartmouth
Vanderbilt
Cornell
From what I saw, it looks like the floor for t5 grads is around Weill and Yale.
 
So is every UCSF/Hopkins grad now on the shortlist for MGH IM?
It's dumb, but yeah sorta. Especially in this age of virtual interviews I think it's more likely than not that a student from a T5 school with no red flags is likely to get at least an interview. Especially given that they have two first author pubs, and I would assume will continue to pursue additional research this year. Now to your point, if they interview and there just isn't anything there that wows them, they probably won't match. But the bar to get your foot in the door is undeniably lower when you're coming from one of those other name-brand institutions.
 
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It’s very interesting to see the discrepancies between the top five schools and the ones just below it. Obviously schools like Michigan still have impressive match lists but much less so than those top five. IIRC a decent amount of Michigan grads match at places like Henry Ford/DMC/Spectrum. Maybe it’s just because there are fewer top IM residencies in the MW compared to coasts?
 
It’s very interesting to see the discrepancies between the top five schools and the ones just below it. Obviously schools like Michigan still have impressive match lists but much less so than those top five. IIRC a decent amount of Michigan grads match at places like Henry Ford/DMC/Spectrum. Maybe it’s just because there are fewer top IM residencies in the MW compared to coasts?
I am sure there is a percentage of grads from Harvard who do legitimately want to live in Boston, and for that reason they try and match at MGH. Whereas at UMich the only options to stay in Michigan are UMich and Detroit.
 
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It’s very interesting to see the discrepancies between the top five schools and the ones just below it. Obviously schools like Michigan still have impressive match lists but much less so than those top five. IIRC a decent amount of Michigan grads match at places like Henry Ford/DMC/Spectrum. Maybe it’s just because there are fewer top IM residencies in the MW compared to coasts?
I think there’s very little difference between say Hopkins and Yale, but there’s a noticeable difference between Hopkins and vandy.
 
Most Harvard grads actually end up in the tip top tier, none went to BI last year - seems more like those who don't go to the tip top may do so out of preference (as sometimes happens at every top/mid/low tier med school), just from the numbers. 12 MGH matches with about 34/39 in the very top tier (BWH, MGH, Stanford, Duke, Columbia, JHU and Penn).

Internal Medicine
BWH (9)
NYU
MGH (12)
University of Colorado
Stanford (6)
Duke
Columbia (3)
Johns Hopkins
Penn (2)
Dartmouth
Vanderbilt
Cornell
It's dumb, but yeah sorta. Especially in this age of virtual interviews I think it's more likely than not that a student from a T5 school with no red flags is likely to get at least an interview. Especially given that they have two first author pubs, and I would assume will continue to pursue additional research this year. Now to your point, if they interview and there just isn't anything there that wows them, they probably won't match. But the bar to get your foot in the door is undeniably lower when you're coming from one of those other name-brand institutions.
Yeah fair enough. Seems like no red flags and they'll basically say, "sure, stay at this level." The T5 really take care of their own.
...yes? Thats how med school works. You do well on the MCAT -> you get into a top med school for that reason -> you are a shoe in for any residency you want because you went to a top med school
Eh, you did well on exams from 18-22, had a generous undergrad PI, and hired an admissions consultant and now you're set for a moonshot to the top of the medical leadership hierarchy? Dumb philosophy for a field. That mindset isn't shared by the corporate world or any field other than maybe law, which is hardly something to strive for. It's definitely resulted in the type of leadership we see in academic medicine, and the consequences have essentially been a corporate takeover of medicine while Ivory Tower academic leaders hide away in their labs writing opinion pieces.

It will probably benefit me as an MSTP student from a decently prestigious school. Based on previous matches my floor is T20 IM given I don't fail anything or throw any red flags. However, I can't overlook that it incentivizes the wrong behaviors for the whole field.
 
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Yeah fair enough. Seems like no red flags and they'll basically say, "sure, stay at this level." The T5 really take care of their own.

Eh, you did well on exams from 18-22, had a generous undergrad PI, and hired an admissions consultant and now you're set for a moonshot to the top of the medical leadership hierarchy? Dumb philosophy for a field. That mindset isn't shared by the corporate world or any field other than maybe law, which is hardly something to strive for. It's definitely resulted in the type of leadership we see in academic medicine, and the consequences have essentially been a corporate takeover of medicine while Ivory Tower academic leaders hide away in their labs writing opinion pieces.

It will probably benefit me as an MSTP student from a decently prestigious school. Based on previous matches my floor is T20 IM given I don't fail anything or throw any red flags. However, I can't overlook that it incentivizes the wrong behaviors for the whole field.
If going to a top school doesn’t inure to the benefit of those students at all, why do people want it so bad? If every time you need to rinse and repeat, why do people strive to get to the highest level on every step? Just so you know, I am a non-trad and did a lot before med school and enjoyed a very fruitful and successful career in law and business before switching to medicine in my mid-career. So I don't fit in your prototypical t5 student profile. I think your knee-jerk assumptions are very much presumptive..

Law is pretty much the same if you go to a t14, which I did. I am not here to debate whether this should be the case. I am only asking what my odds are given my status. You sound like some jealous fellow, tbh. I am sure you wanted to get into a t5 when applying to med school. But don’t discount people who made it there and say why they should have a leg up in the next process. Success begets success. Why would they pick a CEO from a pool of previous CEOs, if every process should begin de novo?
 
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If going to a top school doesn’t inure to the benefit of those students at all, why do people want it so bad? If every time you need to rinse and repeat, why do people strive to get to the highest level on every step? Just so you know, I am a non-trad and did a lot before med school and enjoyed a very fruitful and successful career in law and business before switching to medicine in my mid-career. So I don't fit in your prototypical t5 student profile. I think your knee-jerk assumptions are very much presumptive..

Law is pretty much the same if you go to a t14, which I did. I am not here to debate whether this should be the case. I am only asking what my odds are given my status. You sound like some jealous fellow, tbh. I am sure you wanted to get into a t5 when applying to med school. But don’t discount people who made it there and say why they should have a leg up in the next process. Success begets success. Why would they pick a CEO from a pool of previous CEOs, if every process should begin de novo?
I don't think that user was describing you in particular. The larger point, which is valid, is that often getting into a "top" school is dependent on factors largely exterior to the applicant such as parents' money to go to a top private HS-->top undergrad fully funded by the scholarship of mommy and daddy-->success in undergrad from not having to work or worry about anything other than being productive in class/research/ECs-->top med school-->top residency. Perhaps we do not need to have every process begin de novo, but it is worth considering that the first process wasn't entirely based on merit or played on a level playing field either.

It does not sound like that path applies to you, so I'm not sure why you feel the need to be so defensive about it :) To answer your primary question, I think your odds are quite good.
 
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I don't think that user was describing you in particular. The larger point, which is valid, is that often getting into a "top" school is dependent on factors largely exterior to the applicant such as parents' money to go to a top private HS-->top undergrad fully funded by the scholarship of mommy and daddy-->success in undergrad from not having to work or worry about anything other than being productive in class/research/ECs-->top med school-->top residency. Perhaps we do not need to have every process begin de novo, but it is worth considering that the first process wasn't entirely based on merit or played on a level playing field either.

It does not sound like that path applies to you, so I'm not sure why you feel the need to be so defensive about it :) To answer your primary question, I think your odds are quite good.
Not being defensive, but if I had said MS3 at a t20 or T30, @ChordaEpiphany would probably not have reacted the same way. Just a thought, but why? I find this to be really perplexing. Since, on the legal side, I had never seen anyone reacting so strongly to people who went to Yale law and immediately assuming that every Yale law student just did really well on the exams and had rich parents and etc. Yet, law is such an unapologetically elite driven business. I think medicine is even worse than law in that regard except that it's an APOLOGETICALLY elite driven field. Oftentimes there's this deep hatred against anyone who wants to obtain prestige in their career goal in medicine. I just think there's a lot more hypocrisy in medicine than in any other field.
 
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Not being defensive, but if I had said MS3 at a t20 or T30, @ChordaEpiphany would probably not have reacted the same way. Just a thought, but why?
Well, then the answer to your question would have been different and we thus would be having an entirely different conversation. So that seems irrelevant.
 
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To answer your OP, I definitely think you have the stats to be competitive for IM at MGH. My question to you is to what end? How does training there get you to your ultimate goals? Research money? Being a dept Chair someday. BTW, Dept Chair is an administrative job for the most part. Being a member of the Ivy club? You're a non trad so I'd imagine you have a clear idea where you want to be in 10 yrs. So where does the IM at MGH take you?
 
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To answer your OP, I definitely think you have the stats to be competitive for IM at MGH. My question to you is to what end? How does training there get you to your ultimate goals? Research money? Being a dept Chair someday. BTW, Dept Chair is an administrative job for the most part. Being a member of the Ivy club? You're a non trad so I'd imagine you have a clear idea where you want to be in 10 yrs. So where does the IM at MGH take you?
This has been the question I ask myself for a while. I think ultimately I'd like to take on some leadership position in a major medical system. I don't see myself doing clinical work for a very long time after residency. I am fully aware that MGH is not the end all be all for what I want to do. However, I think if I can, I will strive to get there given it is in my geographic location preference. TBH, I would be perfectly happy with Yale or Cornell, if that's where I end up.
 
Then I believe you are in a good position to get there. I might consider an MBA somewhere in your journey to enter into the corporate med world. The JD will certainly be useful if that part of corporate medicine is your area of interest. Good luck and best wishes!
 
Then I believe you are in a good position to get there. I might consider an MBA somewhere in your journey to enter into the corporate med world. The JD will certainly be useful if that part of corporate medicine is your area of interest. Good luck and best wishes!
Thank you. Have an MBA already.
 
If going to a top school doesn’t inure to the benefit of those students at all, why do people want it so bad? If every time you need to rinse and repeat, why do people strive to get to the highest level on every step? Just so you know, I am a non-trad and did a lot before med school and enjoyed a very fruitful and successful career in law and business before switching to medicine in my mid-career. So I don't fit in your prototypical t5 student profile. I think your knee-jerk assumptions are very much presumptive..

Law is pretty much the same if you go to a t14, which I did. I am not here to debate whether this should be the case. I am only asking what my odds are given my status. You sound like some jealous fellow, tbh. I am sure you wanted to get into a t5 when applying to med school. But don’t discount people who made it there and say why they should have a leg up in the next process. Success begets success. Why would they pick a CEO from a pool of previous CEOs, if every process should begin de novo?
I'm not even arguing the academic merits of the individual. I'm saying the process does not result in good outcomes in medicine. We place far too high an emphasis on pedigree when what we need in our leaders is largely orthogonal to what it takes to get into a T5 for most students. Please note I'm not advocating for board scores to be the end-all either. That would be worse.

The advantages of a T5 should ideally come from the better opportunity afforded by the school. More research, better mentorship, richer experiences, better residency preparation, access to world class minds and resources, etc... Prior experience can also influence decisions if someone did exceptional things pre-med school. However, the students who break into the T5 and then phone it in should be judged accordingly, not sent on a pathway to the highest positions in medicine despite completely average or below average performance and little evidence of greater initiative. If you find yourself at HMS or UCSF, fully immersed in the biotech/pharma capitals of the world and at the epicenter of American medicine, and you just hum along completing classes and doing a bit of chart review, imo you've already demonstrated that you aren't motivated to be a leader or innovator. A good physician, but not someone who is going to drive medicine forward. The pathways to change are non-linear, but we're literally teaching our future leaders to check boxes and coast on a name. It shows in the current stock of physician leaders.

The reason I picked this to critique is that we were given 0 information about you except

1) T5

2) Manuscripts not in IM

3) No ties or connections to the NE my mistake, strong ties to the NE

Everything else was literally P/F. To us, you look basically identical to every other T5 student, so this boils down to "what are the chances I match at a specific top IM program as a T5 student?" Not sure why you'd think this is personal. You've made it literally impossible to make personal. Had you disclosed your non-trad status and experience beforehand, I don't think anyone would have blinked an eye. You'll likely be fine matching where you'd like.

As for your other points, law is a great example of why a field shouldn't take this approach, not an example to follow. You accusing me of being jealous as an MSTP student from a prestigious school is kind of silly. I didn't want a T5 because I was geographically limited and there were no T5s where I needed to be for my family. I now have 4 papers in Nature journals and am in the process of founding a company with a division chief at a T5. I'll go where I want if I go through with the match. "You're just jealous" is also not a great way to combat valid criticism.
 
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I'm not even arguing the academic merits of the individual. I'm saying the process does not result in good outcomes in medicine. We place far too high an emphasis on pedigree when what we need in our leaders is largely orthogonal to what it takes to get into a T5 for most students. Please note I'm not advocating for board scores to be the end-all either. That would be worse.

The advantages of a T5 should ideally come from the better opportunity afforded by the school. More research, better mentorship, richer experiences, better residency preparation, access to world class minds and resources, etc... Prior experience can also influence decisions if someone did exceptional things pre-med school. However, the students who break into the T5 and then phone it in should be judged accordingly, not sent on a pathway to the highest positions in medicine despite completely average or below average performance and little evidence of greater initiative. If you find yourself at HMS or UCSF, fully immersed in the biotech/pharma capitals of the world and at the epicenter of American medicine, and you just hum along completing classes and doing a bit of chart review, imo you've already demonstrated that you aren't motivated to be a leader or innovator. A good physician, but not someone who is going to drive medicine forward. The pathways to change are non-linear, but we're literally teaching our future leaders to check boxes and coast on a name. It shows in the current stock of physician leaders, who are

The reason I picked this to critique is that we were given 0 information about you except

1) T5

2) Manuscripts not in IM

3) No ties or connections to the NE

Everything else was literally P/F. To us, you look basically identical to every other T5 student, so this boils down to "what are the chances I match at a specific top IM program as a T5 student?" Not sure why you'd think this is personal. You've made it literally impossible to make personal. Had you disclosed your non-trad status and experience beforehand, I don't think anyone would have blinked an eye. You'll likely be fine matching where you'd like.

As for your other points, law is a great example of why a field shouldn't take this approach, not an example to follow. You accusing me of being jealous as an MSTP student from a prestigious school is kind of silly. I didn't want a T5 because I was geographically limited and there were no T5s where I needed to be for my family. I now have 4 papers in Nature journals and am in the process of founding a company with a division chief at a T5. I'll go where I want if I go through with the match. "You're just jealous" is also not a great way to combat valid criticism.
Well, actually I did say “strong tie to the NE.”
 
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I think we are arguing past each other. There are valid complaints to the benefits afforded students who get into T5 schools, and ample evidence why that doesn’t apply to the OP.

Good luck
 
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Does pedigree factor that much into non-pd or department chair leadership spots? I feel like being charismatic/well-liked is far, far more important. n=1 but I dated the daughter of a csuite executive at one of the larger hospitals (non medical but think like cfo/chief counsel type) and he went to BU law school (which is probably equivalent to DO) since law schools are so top heavy. That being said, he was a very likeable/good looking/charismatic person.

Edit: it does seem to be important for MGH at the very least as most execs trained or went to HMS.
 
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Does pedigree factor that much into non-pd or department chair leadership spots? I feel like being charismatic/well-liked is far, far more important. n=1 but I dated the daughter of a csuite executive at one of the larger hospitals (non medical but think like cfo/chief counsel type) and he went to BU law school (which is probably equivalent to DO) since law schools are so top heavy. That being said, he was a very likeable/good looking/charismatic person.

Edit: it does seem to be important for MGH at the very least as most execs trained or went to HMS.
Prestige helps a bit. But you have to be personable and capable to begin with.
 
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OP has been up front about their goal of securing a leadership position in a Healthcare organization. Pedigree is high on the list for any search committee looking for a Dept Chair or upper level executive. Looking to match at an Ivy makes sense. 3 of my former colleagues were from Ivy's and all became Dept Chairs. They told me that their programs helped prepare them for these positions. If anyone has read my rants about pedigree bigotry in prior threads, they know how I feel about it. Having said that, pedigree bias is a thing, and like anything in medicine, it's the only game in town. Know the rules and play, or take your ball and go home.
 
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To answer your OP, I definitely think you have the stats to be competitive for IM at MGH. My question to you is to what end? How does training there get you to your ultimate goals? Research money? Being a dept Chair someday. BTW, Dept Chair is an administrative job for the most part. Being a member of the Ivy club? You're a non trad so I'd imagine you have a clear idea where you want to be in 10 yrs. So where does the IM at MGH take you?
That depends man. Our dept chair works the OR 3 days a week and has a decent patient panel
 
OP has been up front about their goal of securing a leadership position in a Healthcare organization. Pedigree is high on the list for any search committee looking for a Dept Chair or upper level executive. Looking to match at an Ivy makes sense. 3 of my former colleagues were from Ivy's and all became Dept Chairs. They told me that their programs helped prepare them for these positions. If anyone has read my rants about pedigree bigotry in prior threads, they know how I feel about it. Having said that, pedigree bias is a thing, and like anything in medicine, it's the only game in town. Know the rules and play, or take your ball and go home.
went to a top ivy for undergrad, top 3 law and business schools. Worked at a top 5 law firm as a trial lawyer in constitutional law (arguing in front of the SCOTUS) and then a large asset management as a chief investment officer. There's also some other stuff that is very very unique and prestigious in literary world (on the level of the Nobel Prize in Literature). So yeah, I'd like to continue the streak of prestige. I am not interested in making lots of money in medicine, since I already did that in my previous life. So at this point in my life, I'd like to pursue something that will be fun for me, i.e., running a large academic medical center, such as MGH/BWH, NYP, or Hopkins. So yeah, I am pretty blatant about staying in the lane of prestige. Did a quick search online, it looks like I can still keep my clinical duties while running a hospital system. That will be ideal for me.
 
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Does pedigree factor that much into non-pd or department chair leadership spots? I feel like being charismatic/well-liked is far, far more important. n=1 but I dated the daughter of a csuite executive at one of the larger hospitals (non medical but think like cfo/chief counsel type) and he went to BU law school (which is probably equivalent to DO) since law schools are so top heavy. That being said, he was a very likeable/good looking/charismatic person.

Edit: it does seem to be important for MGH at the very least as most execs trained or went to HMS.
BU law is ranked 17th, so I'm not sure I'd call that "DO" level. Regardless, it's not T14, so probably on the spectrum of academic prestige law to Big Law to general counsel to CFO/C-suite role it goes from "absolute non-starter" to "doesn't really matter."

This is actually coming into focus for me a little more. The real issue is that in medicine and law performance and outcomes are decoupled. Both operate on essentially a FFS model, but in law it's just called billable hours. Even in leadership positions, the job is to bring in donors or bring in clients. Of course a name will help with that, probably more than anything else.

In pharma and community medicine (or I suppose in a C-suite role in law) it seems they rarely care about your pedigree, just your track record of actual accomplishments. Some of the top CMOs, EVPs, and the like are IMGs (even in American companies, and even from non-elite foreign med schools) or people from average med schools or residency programs. Ultimately no one is willing to let pedigree get in the way if they think Person A is better than Person B for the bottom line.

In this light, it makes perfect sense to discriminate. Still stinks for the field.
went to a top ivy for undergrad, top 3 law and business schools. Worked at a top 5 law firm as a trial lawyer in constitutional law (arguing in front of the SCOTUS) and then a large asset management as a chief investment officer. There's also some other stuff that is very very unique and prestigious in literary world (on the level of the Nobel Prize in Literature). So yeah, I'd like to continue the streak of prestige. I am not interested in making lots of money in medicine, since I already did that in my previous life. So at this point in my life, I'd like to pursue something that will be fun for me, i.e., running a large academic medical center, such as MGH/BWH, NYP, or Hopkins. So yeah, I am pretty blatant about staying in the lane of prestige. Did a quick search online, it looks like I can still keep my clinical duties while running a hospital system. That will be ideal for me.
So you are an MD, JD, MBA former C-suite executive who is filthy rich, basically retired, and you also have a Nobel Prize-equivalent achievement in literature. Then you led with, "T5 med school and two first author papers in non-IM field"?

Good for you, but if you're not trolling then you are leagues above taking any sort of advice from this message board. Absolutely no one here has experience with the path you are on. You should probably just tap into your network and go have a sit down with David Brown to ensure you not only match but are also adequately mentored for executive leadership in medicine.
 
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BU law is ranked 17th, so I'm not sure I'd call that "DO" level. Regardless, it's not T14, so probably on the spectrum of academic prestige law to Big Law to general counsel to CFO/C-suite role it goes from "absolute non-starter" to "doesn't really matter."

This is actually coming into focus for me a little more. The real issue is that in medicine and law performance and outcomes are decoupled. Both operate on essentially a FFS model, but in law it's just called billable hours. Even in leadership positions, the job is to bring in donors or bring in clients. Of course a name will help with that, probably more than anything else.

In pharma and community medicine (or I suppose in a C-suite role in law) it seems they rarely care about your pedigree, just your track record of actual accomplishments. Some of the top CMOs, EVPs, and the like are IMGs (even in American companies, and even from non-elite foreign med schools) or people from average med schools or residency programs. Ultimately no one is willing to let pedigree get in the way if they think Person A is better than Person B for the bottom line.

In this light, it makes perfect sense to discriminate. Still stinks for the field.

So you are an MD, JD, MBA former C-suite executive who is filthy rich, basically retired, and you also have a Nobel Prize-equivalent achievement in literature. Then you led with, "T5 med school and two first author papers in non-IM field"?

Good for you, but if you're not trolling then you are leagues above taking any sort of advice from this message board. Absolutely no one here has experience with the path you are on. You should probably just tap into your network and go have a sit down with David Brown to ensure you not only match but are also adequately mentored for executive leadership in medicine.
Really wanted to assess if I need anything more than what I said to match. I’d rather not do more research moving forward. Not filthy rich, just very comfortable. I have too long of a post history to be a troll.

In law, you are either a t14 or not. No.17 is the same as no.170
 
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I have too long of a post history to be a troll.
You realize there are now-banned trolls with few thousand posts and years on SDN right? Some people for whatever reason like to play the long troll game

The point is your initial post is completely misleading if your CV is actually what you say it is and not some internet flex move. You’re not the usual “T5 with couple of non-IM papers” as you presented. But I think you know that already so there isn’t really a point to this thread
 
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You realize there are now-banned trolls with few thousand posts and years on SDN right? Some people for whatever reason like to play the long troll game

The point is your initial post is completely misleading if your CV is actually what you say it is and not some internet flex move. You’re not the usual “T5 with couple of non-IM papers” as you presented. But I think you know that already so there isn’t really a point to this thread
I never said I was the usual or not in my first post. I just asked what my odds are given my relevant medical school information. I only disclosed more about my background when I felt my situation is not what some posters here believed to be. Yes, I understand my past history can influence my chances just like how my medical school applications went. In any case, I am getting the consensus that I should have a good shot at MGH and that's all I want to gauge. People can believe or disbelieve whatever they want. I am only here to get an answer.

Also, I didn't realize there are long-term trolls on this site. TBH, I think some of my classmates here may realize who I am based on what I said about myself. But I really don't care.
 
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I never said I was the usual or not in my first post. I just asked what my odds are given my relevant medical school information. I only disclosed more about my background when I felt my situation is not what some posters here believed to be. Yes, I understand my past history can influence my chances just like how my medical school applications went. In any case, I am getting the consensus that I should have a good shot at MGH and that's all I want to gauge. People can believe or disbelieve whatever they want. I am only here to get an answer.
MS3 at a T5.
2 first author papers in a surgical sub-speciality
School is pass/fail through out with no internal ranking or MSPE adjective. There's no AOA here either.
Haven't taken Steps yet, but assume passing Step 1 and decent score on Step 2.
No red flag.
Strong tie to the NE region.

What are my odds for IM at MGH?
Presenting like this is misleading and gives a false picture of who you are, which affects the answers to the question you’re looking for. Asking questions assessing what your odds for Program X requires knowing the complete picture. And quite frankly, SDN’s guess is as good as yours and you know yourself better than anyone if you’re being genuine.

If you want to get genuine responses to gauge your chances, you need to talk to your school advisers
 
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Presenting like this is misleading and gives a false picture of who you are, which affects the answers to the question you’re looking for. Asking questions assessing what your odds for Program X requires knowing the complete picture. And quite frankly, SDN’s guess is as good as yours and you know yourself better than anyone if you’re being genuine.

If you want to get genuine responses to gauge your chances, you need to talk to your school advisers
Umm... I disagree. I think some posters gave me a very straight answer before I gave out more info about myself. You can go back in the thread to check it. I ran into the same problem when I asked about my medical school application WAMC here. All i got was that you must be a troll. In any case, I don't know why you have a problem with me asking about my odds.
 
Umm... I disagree. I think some posters gave me a very straight answer before I gave out more info about myself. You can go back in the thread to check it. I ran into the same problem when I asked about my medical school application WAMC here. All i got was that you must be a troll. In any case, I don't know why you have a problem with me asking about my odds.
The straight answer is effectively an incomplete answer based on the usual formulaic response, i.e. your chances to a top program coming from a T5 school is probably good but may need to do an away if you’re interested in program X. Like if that’s the type of response you’re looking for, have at it. But replace T5 with T anything and an interest in program Y, the same suggestions of doing an away at program Y would still hold

People on here don’t know you or your background to reasonably give you the answers you’re looking for. The people who do know you are your school advisers and their advice is and should be weighed more than what SDN says. And you have the advantage of getting genuine advice without having to out yourself publicly
 
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The straight answer is effectively an incomplete answer based on the usual formulaic response, i.e. your chances to a top program coming from a T5 school is probably good but may need to do an away if you’re interested in program X. Like if that’s the type of response you’re looking for, have at it. But replace T5 with T anything and an interest in program Y, the same suggestions of doing an away at program Y would still hold

People on here don’t know you or your background to reasonably give you the answers you’re looking for. The people who do know you are your school advisers and their advice is and should be weighed more than what SDN says. And you have the advantage of getting genuine advice without having to out yourself publicly
Not gonna engage this anymore. But thank you for your advice.
 
You realize there are now-banned trolls with few thousand posts and years on SDN right? Some people for whatever reason like to play the long troll game

The point is your initial post is completely misleading if your CV is actually what you say it is and not some internet flex move. You’re not the usual “T5 with couple of non-IM papers” as you presented. But I think you know that already so there isn’t really a point to this thread
That's what prompted me to actually respond. It's such an asinine thing to ask. "Here's close to 0 information about me. What are my chances?" Then this explosion of new information...

If OP is who they say they are, why post this thread? Even if you'd believe that a T3 dual JD/MBA with a job as a C-suite investment manager and near Nobel Prize level literary awards and a history arguing in front of SCOTUS would quit to go memorize the Krebs cycle, who on earth would then plan an immediate exit as a healthcare exec maybe seeing patients once a month? Anyone in that position would recognize that there are much, much easier ways to transition to CEO of a large healthcare organization. I certainly don't think anyone in that position would, 3 years into the journey, "do a quick search online" to find out if their plan to also practice was possible. They'd have connections to healthcare execs and relationships with people they want to emulate. They also wouldn't gauge chances on SDN since they'd know that was pointless.

I'd believe OP is a T5 med student and a prestige chaser. I'd believe degrees at top law and business schools and a work history in Big Law and high finance. It's not that uncommon in medicine. The rest sounds like exaggeration or delusion. There are news articles about a woman who argued to the SCOTUS as a 5th year associate at 30 years old because it was so shocking. So I guess we could assume OP went straight to law school and presented this case at 30, and somewhere in between got a part-time MBA. They also had a side-hustle writing award-winning literature. Then OP immediately exited to investment banking and took over as CIO of a large fund within a year or two, and while doing this dutifully prepared their application to medical school. Somewhere around 32-34 they left yet another storied career behind and dedicated themselves fully to memorizing the brachial plexus, determined to exit their cardiology fellowship at 42-44 to immediately take the helm as the new CEO of Partners. Much more realistic is OP went Ivy for undergrad, "T3" law, was an associate on the sidelines of a SCOTUS case, left quickly and did an MBA, and then worked somewhere in high finance not in the C-suite. Then they got bored of that and went in for round 3 of prestige chasing.

Based on the shear number of threads that involve acceptance and prestige ranking when you google OP's username, it seems to be an obsession. I've met plenty of people with the type of resume OP describes (prestige career in law/finance --> medicine), but the actual achievements don't add up. Whether or not OP is lying, there's some odd pathology going on here and it's fascinating.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. If OP is who they say they are, then my opinion as a lowly borderline-brand-name-ish MSTP student is so insignificant that it shouldn't bother them at all. Personally I'm just really looking forward to seeing the news story of MGH's first former C-suite exec/legal supermind/(almost) Literature Nobel Prize-winning intern disimpacting bowels 80 hours/week.
 
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FWIW, nothing I've read in this thread from @srirachamayonnaise strikes me as trollish. I don't know that I would think it was "obvious" that the outside-of-medicine achievements prior to med school would carry weight when it comes to top residency applications. I think the question has now been answered exhaustively.

In any event, I think this thread has run its course and debating about the OP's seemingly impressive resume is not going to help anyone. Accordingly, thread closed.
 
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