Obama wants to tie doctors pay to quality starting next year

[Meh.meh]

I'm, like, a really good (student) doctor, so I'm like, not too worried about this.

0/10 trolling rating.
But you get a gold star for trying

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[GUH]

I'm not changing values for anyone. I'm simply stating a trend. You should recognize that your own views are not the mainstream by a long shot. People might disagree on how exactly some form of charity care should be provided, but I think you would be hard pressed to find a majority of people that agree with the statement: "people who cannot afford medical care should not be able to receive any medical care." You're a medical student, man. You should be well aware of the medical costs of not having simple conditions like hypertension, diabetes, etc. managed and managed well. I'm not talking about someone coming in with an MI and saying "lol no PCI for you sry." I'm talking about basic management of basic medical problems. And yes, that does lead to deaths and significant medical morbidity.

How is it a get out of jail free card? Better describe your perspective. Because the way I'm reading it, it essentially comes down to "I don't want people telling me what to do." Your entire position is antisocial and, frankly, just immature. Don't get me wrong, physicians as a group should absolutely advocate for their interests. Physicians should absolutely try and avert attempts to constantly be on the short end of the stick in this discussion. But let's not pretend that becoming a physician is signing up for some kind of slave life while taking home a cool six figure income.

Your position is: I don't want to do what other people tell me to, ergo if people can't get access to healthcare, tough luck. I think that's ridiculous. If I'm mischaracterizing your position, please, correct me. I'm not trying to misstate things - simply trying to get down to the fundamental principle.

Do you or do you not believe that doctors should not be forced to do work without being paid for it?

If so, why not extend that to homebuilders, clothing manufacturers, and grocery stores? Food, clothing, and shelter are even more pressing needs than healthcare. Why not throw in taxi drivers while we're on a give-people-stuff-just-because-they-exist spree. Most people can go without a doctor for a few years but not without transportation.

Not to mention the damage it would do to the physician-patient relationship if you threaten to fine or pull a license if a physician does not take a patient whom he doesn't want to take.

 

[NickNaylor]

Do you or do you not believe that doctors should not be forced to do work without being paid for it?

Of course not. But that's a different point and a different question than what I'm discussing in the post you quoted. Providing care to those who can't afford it does not equate to forcing people to work without pay.

 

[GUH]

Of course not. But that's a different point and a different question than what I'm discussing in the post you quoted. Providing care to those who can't afford it does not equate to forcing people to work without pay.

Then in your opinion, how should we (as a country) address "antisocial" physicians who choose not to accept patients who do not pay for their treatment?

 

[NickNaylor]

Then in your opinion, how should we (as a country) address "antisocial" physicians who choose not to accept patients who do not pay for their treatment?

I don't really have an answer, but I can see the writing on the wall with states attempting to mandate acceptance of Medicaid as a condition of licensure. But Medicaid is a prime example of physicians being paid for their services despite patients not being for their care. Before I earn the ire of just about everyone, I understand that Medicaid is far, far from a perfect system. But it's a proof of concept that I think can work with more tinkering.

We don't need to reinvent the wheel here.

 

[midweststudent1]

I don't really have an answer, but I can see the writing on the wall with states attempting to mandate acceptance of Medicaid as a condition of licensure. But Medicaid is a prime example of physicians being paid for their services despite patients not being for their care. Before I earn the ire of just about everyone, I understand that Medicaid is far, far from a perfect system. But it's a proof of concept that I think can work with more tinkering.

We don't need to reinvent the wheel here.

There's a chance that as a FM physician I won't accept Medicaid unless their compensation gets a heck of a lot better.

So what are people gonna do to me? Take away my license?

Fine take it. Those government backed loans won't be getting paid back either.

 

[notbobtrustme]

There's a chance that as a FM physician I won't accept Medicaid unless their compensation gets a heck of a lot better.

So what are people gonna do to me? Take away my license?

Fine take it. Those government backed loans won't be getting paid back either.

ya, they can garnish everything you make for the rest of life.

no big deal.

 

[Detective John McClane]

0/10 trolling rating.
But you get a gold star for trying

Not actually trolling. I attempted to point out a reason why this makes no sense.

 

[Beargryllz]

Do you or do you not believe that doctors should not be forced to do work without being paid for it?

If so, why not extend that to homebuilders, clothing manufacturers, and grocery stores? Food, clothing, and shelter are even more pressing needs than healthcare. Why not throw in taxi drivers while we're on a give-people-stuff-just-because-they-exist spree. Most people can go without a doctor for a few years but not without transportation.

Not to mention the damage it would do to the physician-patient relationship if you threaten to fine or pull a license if a physician does not take a patient whom he doesn't want to take.

Question for everyone here

When has a doctor ever worked without getting paid for it?

Because last time I checked, physicians were literally the highest paid professionals in the world

So my gut reaction is to discard the nonsense quoted here and say that they probably are getting paid

 

[charmiedermie]

They are in between, not extravagant/fabulous, but not struggling paycheck to paycheck

Middle class people are living paycheck to paycheck and many are struggling.

 

[PL198]

ya, they can garnish everything you make for the rest of life.

no big deal.

lol I was gonn say " you planning on going off the grid?"

I don't think people realize that you just can't arbitrarily decide to not pay off your loans.

 

[PL198]

I can't wait till the government just "decides to pay for everyone's medical care," ie by jacking up taxes and centralizes it and then after they mismanage that money, they just decide to print more money to pay the bills.

 

[PL198]

middle class people live paycheck to paycheck because they think they are owed a new car and starbucks.

whatever though, just give em more money and benefits. its not like that has just contributed to the problem and made them even more crippled from a managing assets standpoint. oh wait.

 

[charmiedermie]

Well then if they are living paycheck to paycheck and struggling, they can't afford concierge care.

There is a difference btw concierge care and direct primary care practices. The latter is affordable to the middle class.

 

[Doctor Bob]

Question for everyone here

When has a doctor ever worked without getting paid for it?

Happens to ER docs all the time.

I might get paid for the shift as a whole... but I see plenty of patients that I never get paid for.
And I'm required by law to see them. And I'm liable for things that happen during that visit.

Either allow me to refuse to see people without money up front (would be very bad for the emergency system)
Or give me some liability shield for seeing people for free

 

[charmiedermie]

middle class people live paycheck to paycheck because they think they are owed a new car and starbucks.

whatever though, just give em more money and benefits. its not like that has just contributed to the problem and made them even more crippled from a managing assets standpoint. oh wait.

What occupations do u think are middle class?

 

[GUH]

Question for everyone here

When has a doctor ever worked without getting paid for it?

Because last time I checked, physicians were literally the highest paid professionals in the world

So my gut reaction is to discard the nonsense quoted here and say that they probably are getting paid

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. Emergency care in this country goes uncompensated much, if not most, of the time.

 

[67552931811]

This.

Plus the "literally the highest paid professionals in the world" line was a laugher.

Apparently grizzlybear doesn't follow much sports...

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

Apparently grizzlybear doesn't follow much sports...

Or the 20 year olds who make an iPhone app and never have to work another day in their life.

 

[Mad Jack]

I don't really have an answer, but I can see the writing on the wall with states attempting to mandate acceptance of Medicaid as a condition of licensure. But Medicaid is a prime example of physicians being paid for their services despite patients not being for their care. Before I earn the ire of just about everyone, I understand that Medicaid is far, far from a perfect system. But it's a proof of concept that I think can work with more tinkering.

We don't need to reinvent the wheel here.

There has been no major move to force doctors to accept Medicaid or Medicare. For a myriad of reasons, it's just impractical to do so for many physicians (take psychiatrists, for instance- half of them don't accept insurance at all because it allows them to keep costs down by operating as a solo practitioner). Accepting insurance isn't just a matter of saying "okay, I accept your method of payment." It requires the purchase of EMR systems, hiring of billers and coders, etc. It's not feasible for many practices to be forced into, as the costs are just too high for solo practitioners to bear. The only states that have made serious calls for it are Massachusetts and Virginia, the former of which failed to garner support and the latter of which has been vehemently rebuked thusfar.

 

[67552931811]

Or the 20 year olds who make an iPhone app and never have to work another day in their life.

But those are outliers, no? Whatever field that is, what is the average? -- I have 0 clue..

The minumum salary an NFL player can make (say, an undrafted rookie who signs as a free agent) is 420K. The league average is obviously multi-millions a year.

 

[RJGOP]

But those are outliers, no? Whatever field that is, what is the average? -- I have 0 clue..

The minumum salary an NFL player can make (say, an undrafted rookie who signs as a free agent) is 420K. The league average is obviously multi-millions a year.

And the minimum NFL salary is the lowest of any of the Major US sports. MLB and NBA starting salaries are around at least 500k from my understanding and the NHL's is even higher.

 

[PL198]

lol and here is where we complain about athletes getting paid more than doctors. god forbid anyone recognize that their skill-sets are more rare than yours are. omg aneurysms everywhere

 

[67552931811]

Whose complaining? @PL198

Everyone is retorting the-- doctors are the highest paid profession --remark.

 

[RJGOP]

lol and here is where we complain about athletes getting paid more than doctors. god forbid anyone recognize that their skill-sets are more rare than yours are. omg aneurysms everywhere

No one is complaining. We were just refuting the notion that doctors are the most highly reimbursed proffesion.

 

[PL198]

don't worry others will come in and complain.

however, I'd say that pro athletes and musicians aren't really common enough to be valid in this conversation. and people that have their own businesses are self-employed, so I'd say execs are the only profession that makes more than physicians from a "being an employee" standpoint.

not to mention for every 1 player in the NBA there are 5 in D-leagues or trying to make it that get nothing, so the averages aren't going to be as high as you think.

multiply that by 1000 and you get the number of struggling musicians or people trying to start their own businesses that fail. so again, on average I'd say average doc is 2nd highest paid profession in country.

 

[PlutoBoy]

More taxes. Less payment. More bureaucracy. Ahhh... it's lovely to be at the top 1%

Are we ready to bend over and take it?

 

[Beargryllz]

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. Emergency care in this country goes uncompensated much, if not most, of the time.

If a $300,000 salary is uncompensated, I can't wait to see what a compensated salary looks like

Hell, my dad makes a lot more than that and something like 70% of his patients don't have insurance

At what point does it become uncool to whine about a non-issue?

 

[GUH]

If a $300,000 salary is uncompensated, I can't wait to see what a compensated salary looks like

Hell, my dad makes a lot more than that and something like 70% of his patients don't have insurance

At what point does it become uncool to whine about a non-issue?

Except for the fact that not a cent of that salary comes from uninsured patients who refuse to pay. It comes from taxpayers and patients who do have insurance or other means of payment.

Question for everyone here

When has a doctor ever worked without getting paid for it?

That was your question. Go ahead and ask your dad how much he was paid for treating his last uninsured patient who refused to pay.

 

[charmiedermie]

If a $300,000 salary is uncompensated, I can't wait to see what a compensated salary looks like

Hell, my dad makes a lot more than that and something like 70% of his patients don't have insurance

At what point does it become uncool to whine about a non-issue?

Is your dad in private practice or does he work for a hospital?

 

[Beargryllz]

Except for the fact that not a cent of that salary comes from uninsured patients who refuse to pay. It comes from taxpayers and patients who do have insurance or other means of payment.
That was your question. Go ahead and ask your dad how much he was paid for treating his last uninsured patient who refused to pay.

At ~$150/hr and ~1.5 patients/hr it works out to about $100

 

[Psai]

If a $300,000 salary is uncompensated, I can't wait to see what a compensated salary looks like

Hell, my dad makes a lot more than that and something like 70% of his patients don't have insurance

At what point does it become uncool to whine about a non-issue?

It's not about what you're being paid. It's about how much you're worth and how much people are stealing from your pocket. Are you going to be happy with $300k when you should be making 600 but the government is forcing you to see patients and take risk without compensation while execs are taking your hard earned money right out of your pocket?

 

[Beargryllz]

It's not about what you're being paid. It's about how much you're worth and how much people are stealing from your pocket. Are you going to be happy with $300k when you should be making 600 but the government is forcing you to see patients and take risk without compensation while execs are taking your hard earned money right out of your pocket?

I'm extremely skeptical of this claim

It sounds like a ridiculous amount of money is going *into* your pocket, not out

Hell, I was making $11/hr drawing blood before I got into medical school. Now you're telling me I'm supposed to get my panties in a bunch over not pulling in $600,000?

Come on now, lets at least pretend to be serious. And if you are serious, I've got one word in the form of an acronym for you: LASIK

You should see *that* setup if you haven't yet. Now there is a gig anyone should envy.

I just don't have a violin small enough for you. I just don't

 

[GUH]

I'm extremely skeptical of this claim

It sounds like a ridiculous amount of money is going *into* your pocket, not out

Hell, I was making $11/hr drawing blood before I got into medical school. Now you're telling me I'm supposed to get my panties in a bunch over not pulling in $600,000?

You are actually comparing phlebotomy to medicine. A physician makes more than a phlebotomist, and his time is more valuable. Get used to it.

Why will I likely only make six figures when there are silicon valley executives pulling down seven or eight figures? Because they are valuable. If someone is expecting them to work for free or for anything lower than the full market value of their work, it is unreasonable to call them greedy for pushing against such expectations.

EDIT: There are also many people around the world who would love to work for a US minimum wage. That doesn't mean that a US worker should be satisfied with minimum wage if his work is more valuable than that, or that it is fair to demand that he work for free for most customers if his salary is still at minimum wage.

 

[Beargryllz]

You are actually comparing phlebotomy to medicine. A physician makes more than a phlebotomist, and his time is more valuable. Get used to it.

Why will I likely only make six figures when there are silicon valley executives pulling down seven or eight figures? Because they are valuable. If someone is expecting them to work for free or for anything lower than the full market value of their work, it is unreasonable to call them greedy for pushing against such expectations.

EDIT: There are also many people around the world who would love to work for a US minimum wage. That doesn't mean that a US worker should be satisfied with minimum wage if his work is more valuable than that, or that it is fair to demand that he work for free for most customers if his salary is still at minimum wage.

Somehow I don't think you're as valuable as you think you are

Go sell some silicon if you're really that disgruntled

 

[Psai]

I'm extremely skeptical of this claim

It sounds like a ridiculous amount of money is going *into* your pocket, not out

Hell, I was making $11/hr drawing blood before I got into medical school. Now you're telling me I'm supposed to get my panties in a bunch over not pulling in $600,000?

Come on now, lets at least pretend to be serious. And if you are serious, I've got one word in the form of an acronym for you: LASIK

You should see *that* setup if you haven't yet. Now there is a gig anyone should envy.

I just don't have a violin small enough for you. I just don't

You still haven't given up that premed outlook? It's not about me, kid. It's about you too and new doctors in general. We're not going to be paid less because there's no money out there to pay us. We're going to be paid less because rich people will be robbing us. It's people like you that sit around counting their imaginary benjamins, thinking they're going to be some big shot that are letting the profession slip away into a bastardization of its former self. You're basically saying it's okay to have someone steal your money while giving absolutely no value simply by virtue of owning a concept called a "contract". These people will be doctors who graduated earlier than you, nurses who climbed the corporate ladder, people with a masters in healthcare administration or people who graduated business school with no business in medicine who will be sitting there telling you what to do. So instead of you pulling in that $600,000, you'll be pulling in maybe $200,000 with that extra $400,000 that you earned with your education and your hard work going into the pocket of some smarmy suit sitting on their ass in their office dreaming about the next best way to screw you over. This is all while you're running around kissing patients' asses so that they won't give you less than a "very good" on those worthless patient satisfaction evaluations. And that may seem like a lot of money to you but it will disappear before you know it

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

You still haven't given up that premed outlook? It's not about me, kid. It's about you too and new doctors in general. We're not going to be paid less because there's no money out there to pay us. We're going to be paid less because rich people will be robbing us. It's people like you that sit around counting their imaginary benjamins, thinking they're going to be some big shot that are letting the profession slip away into a bastardization of its former self. You're basically saying it's okay to have someone steal your money while giving absolutely no value simply by virtue of owning a concept called a "contract". These people will be doctors who graduated earlier than you, nurses who climbed the corporate ladder, people with a masters in healthcare administration or people who graduated business school with no business in medicine who will be sitting there telling you what to do. So instead of you pulling in that $600,000, you'll be pulling in maybe $200,000 with that extra $400,000 that you earned with your education and your hard work going into the pocket of some smarmy suit sitting on their ass in their office dreaming about the next best way to screw you over. This is all while you're running around kissing patients' asses so that they won't give you less than a "very good" on those worthless patient satisfaction evaluations. And that may seem like a lot of money to you but it will disappear before you know it

Good use of the word smarmy. I can always appreciate when someone uses that word.

 

[GUH]

Somehow I don't think you're as valuable as you think you are

If you're so confident, then let the market decide and get rid of rules which regulate how much physicians get paid, or which force physicians to work for patients who refuse to compensate them for their time, energy, equipment, and expertise. If what you say is true, then physician compensation would decrease.

 

[maxxor]

I'm extremely skeptical of this claim

It sounds like a ridiculous amount of money is going *into* your pocket, not out

Hell, I was making $11/hr drawing blood before I got into medical school. Now you're telling me I'm supposed to get my panties in a bunch over not pulling in $600,000?

Let's turn it around: Say you got paid for every patient you saw as an ER physician. Instead of 30% people not paying you to see them, you could legitimately work 30% fewer shifts for the same compensation. You aren't paid just for sitting there

Come on now, lets at least pretend to be serious. And if you are serious, I've got one word in the form of an acronym for you: LASIK

You should see *that* setup if you haven't yet. Now there is a gig anyone should envy.

I just don't have a violin small enough for you. I just don't

What are you even talking about here? Refractive eye surgery is an incredibly competitive market trying to entice cash-paying patients who will search around to find the best and most experienced surgeon to do their eyes. It takes a lot of work to build up that sort of practice; patients aren't going to want to go to the new guy down the street when it's their cash and their eyes. If someone doesn't have the money to pay for LASIK, they aren't getting LASIK. Period. Ophthalmologists largely aren't bound by EMTALA, especially in their private offices.

 

[Roxas]

If a $300,000 salary is uncompensated, I can't wait to see what a compensated salary looks like

I'd argue the reality of that number is less amazing when you consider that we're pissing away our 20's and 30's in school and residency/fellowship, and I don't have a rich mommy and daddy to pay for school for me, so I'll be paying back loans well into my 40's. When that day comes you bet I'm going to be ready to start living like I've earned every penny of that salary.

You know who I heard complain the most about overpaid physicians? The people I worked at low level jobs with all through college who drank and partied away their paychecks every weekend while I was either working or studying. We're the few who are willing to do what it takes to get there, and I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to see that delayed gratification come through.

 

[NickNaylor]

There has been no major move to force doctors to accept Medicaid or Medicare. For a myriad of reasons, it's just impractical to do so for many physicians (take psychiatrists, for instance- half of them don't accept insurance at all because it allows them to keep costs down by operating as a solo practitioner). Accepting insurance isn't just a matter of saying "okay, I accept your method of payment." It requires the purchase of EMR systems, hiring of billers and coders, etc. It's not feasible for many practices to be forced into, as the costs are just too high for solo practitioners to bear. The only states that have made serious calls for it are Massachusetts and Virginia, the former of which failed to garner support and the latter of which has been vehemently rebuked thusfar.

I'm with you - I'm totally against mandated acceptance of certain payers as a condition of licensure. I think that's a huge mistake for the fundamental reason of a huge government overstep in determining what people do in their own industry, apart from the issues you mention.

I was simply trying to answer his question as an example of a measure that I've heard floated since I don't have any ideas of my own.

 

[NickNaylor]

You still haven't given up that premed outlook? It's not about me, kid. It's about you too and new doctors in general. We're not going to be paid less because there's no money out there to pay us. We're going to be paid less because rich people will be robbing us. It's people like you that sit around counting their imaginary benjamins, thinking they're going to be some big shot that are letting the profession slip away into a bastardization of its former self. You're basically saying it's okay to have someone steal your money while giving absolutely no value simply by virtue of owning a concept called a "contract". These people will be doctors who graduated earlier than you, nurses who climbed the corporate ladder, people with a masters in healthcare administration or people who graduated business school with no business in medicine who will be sitting there telling you what to do. So instead of you pulling in that $600,000, you'll be pulling in maybe $200,000 with that extra $400,000 that you earned with your education and your hard work going into the pocket of some smarmy suit sitting on their ass in their office dreaming about the next best way to screw you over. This is all while you're running around kissing patients' asses so that they won't give you less than a "very good" on those worthless patient satisfaction evaluations. And that may seem like a lot of money to you but it will disappear before you know it

Completely agree. The line of reasoning that goes, "you're making enough, don't complain" is a dangerous line to go down, if only because "enough" is completely subjective, and coming up with a dollar amount after which is "more than enough" is next to impossible. This issue is less about compensation (in my mind) and more about wrestling back who is actually controlling the administration of healthcare: people with little to no clinical experience as a physician, or physicians who actually work with patients and have an understanding of the realities of practicing medicine. That's not to say that your everyday physicians knows the intricacies of designing a healthcare system on the macro level. I would venture to say that most don't. But the idea that people with MBAs, MHAs, etc. know everything about medicine and know how to design the most optimal system without actually, you know, practicing medicine is somewhat laughable.

 

[RJGOP]

Completely agree. The line of reasoning that goes, "you're making enough, don't complain" is a dangerous line to go down, if only because "enough" is completely subjective, and coming up with a dollar amount after which is "more than enough" is next to impossible. This issue is less about compensation (in my mind) and more about wrestling back who is actually controlling the administration of healthcare: people with little to no clinical experience as a physician, or physicians who actually work with patients and have an understanding of the realities of practicing medicine. That's not to say that your everyday physicians knows the intricacies of designing a healthcare system on the macro level. I would venture to say that most don't. But the idea that people with MBAs, MHAs, etc. know everything about medicine and know how to design the most optimal system without actually, you know, practicing medicine is somewhat laughable.

This is brilliant. Although decreased compensation is a major problem, perhaps the even bigger issue is who designs and seemingly dictates the way healthcare is managed. I completely agree that most physicians do not know how to intricately design a healthcare plan, however the people who do design them have little to no understanding of the practice of medicine, and the repercussions threof from the healthcare system. Thus, it is frustrating when doctors are continually screwed by the government and other people who know nothing about medicine.

I think a more collaborative approach to designing a healthcare system would prove more beneficial, with input from business people and physicians. As long as those doctors aren't a bunch of Ezekiel Emmanuels.

 

[Beargryllz]

I'd argue the reality of that number is less amazing when you consider that we're pissing away our 20's and 30's in school and residency/fellowship, and I don't have a rich mommy and daddy to pay for school for me, so I'll be paying back loans well into my 40's. When that day comes you bet I'm going to be ready to start living like I've earned every penny of that salary.

You know who I heard complain the most about overpaid physicians? The people I worked at low level jobs with all through college who drank and partied away their paychecks every weekend while I was either working or studying. We're the few who are willing to do what it takes to get there, and I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to see that delayed gratification come through.

You're not pissing away anything. What the hell else were you planning to do with your 20s and 30s? If you don't want to be a doctor, just don't be a doctor. If you find no joy in the life you picked then find something you *can* live for. This line about "wasting" your youth is the biggest line of bull**** that has ever been spewed. You're pretending like life would be so much better if only it weren't for that damnable medical profession keeping you down. It's so unbelievable to see that attitude and I have to rant about it every time it comes up.

The grass will always always always always be greener on the other side.

 

[RJGOP]

You're not pissing away anything. What the hell else were you planning to do with your 20s and 30s? If you don't want to be a doctor, just don't be a doctor. If you find no joy in the life you picked then find something you *can* live for. This line about "wasting" your youth is the biggest line of bull**** that has ever been spewed. You're pretending like life would be so much better if only it weren't for that damnable medical profession keeping you down. It's so unbelievable to see that attitude and I have to rant about it every time it comes up.

The grass will always always always always be greener on the other side.

What are you talking about? Doctors are sacrificing the prime of their lives in order to train for their livelihoods, which they don't begin (independently) untill their early thirties anyway. Not to mention most haven't paid off their debt completely untill their forties.

Yes, we chose to be doctors and we knew what we were getting into, but that doesn't mean we don't deserve to be fairly compensated. Just because everyone else thinks physicians are over-compemsated doesn't mean that they actually are.

 

[midweststudent1]

You're not pissing away anything. What the hell else were you planning to do with your 20s and 30s? If you don't want to be a doctor, just don't be a doctor. If you find no joy in the life you picked then find something you *can* live for. This line about "wasting" your youth is the biggest line of bull**** that has ever been spewed. You're pretending like life would be so much better if only it weren't for that damnable medical profession keeping you down. It's so unbelievable to see that attitude and I have to rant about it every time it comes up.

The grass will always always always always be greener on the other side.

Why the hostility?

I would venture his point is that we are accumulating a massive amount of debt, while many of us could be in careers making good $$, contributing to 401ks, and not living on Ramen noodles.

I enjoy the field, but my wife and I left 100k combined income for me to do this. I fully expect to make that opportunity cost back, and the government has no right to punish us even more

 

[Psai]

You're not pissing away anything. What the hell else were you planning to do with your 20s and 30s? If you don't want to be a doctor, just don't be a doctor. If you find no joy in the life you picked then find something you *can* live for. This line about "wasting" your youth is the biggest line of bull**** that has ever been spewed. You're pretending like life would be so much better if only it weren't for that damnable medical profession keeping you down. It's so unbelievable to see that attitude and I have to rant about it every time it comes up.

The grass will always always always always be greener on the other side.

Get married, have kids, not be doing medicine related garbage during the nights and weekends. You're an M1. You've put in almost no time or effort and you're trying to look down on people who actually have gone through it. You're real clueless kid and you keep offering your uneducated opinion like people should care about what you say. Just go back to the library and study biochemistry or whatever it is that first year students do

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

What are you talking about? Doctors are sacrificing the prime of their lives in order to train for their livelihoods, which they don't begin (independently) untill their early thirties anyway. Not to mention most haven't paid off their debt completely untill their forties.

Yes, we chose to be doctors and we knew what we were getting into, but that doesn't mean we don't deserve to be fairly compensated. Just because everyone else thinks physicians are over-compemsated doesn't mean that they actually are.

Honestly a normal job sucks just as much.... In fact it's probably worse. "Congrats you graduated undergrad, now go work a desk job for 40 years." Seriously.... 2 years in and I know without a shadow year of a doubt I am willing to give up 10 years of my life to avoid this crap. At least I will be growing and feeling like I am actually doing something with my life.

 

[Roxas]

You're not pissing away anything. What the hell else were you planning to do with your 20s and 30s? If you don't want to be a doctor, just don't be a doctor. If you find no joy in the life you picked then find something you *can* live for. This line about "wasting" your youth is the biggest line of bull**** that has ever been spewed. You're pretending like life would be so much better if only it weren't for that damnable medical profession keeping you down. It's so unbelievable to see that attitude and I have to rant about it every time it comes up.

The grass will always always always always be greener on the other side.

I think you misunderstood my point. For starters I love what I'm studying, I'm enjoying the journey as much as possible, and I would do it all over again. While I haven't gotten there yet, I certainly hope I'll enjoy the remainder of my profession.

However, if none of this has required any sacrifice from you, I don't know what to tell you. For me it's not only financial (although you already mentioned you come from money), but it has also been the time and effort required just to make it here, and continue to be here. If the latter hasn't required any sacrifice from you, then I'm genuinely happy for you. I wish I could be as fortunate, but I spend my weekends at the library. I leave for school when my wife and baby are still asleep and they're asleep when I get home.

There are a lot of things I would rather be doing with my 20's: Traveling, working, spending time with friends & family, and not accruing massive amounts of debt. When you haven't sacrificed as much as many of us have to become a physician, then you of all people have no right to dictate what's "fair" compensation. You can go ahead and work for a sack of potatoes and a warm and fuzzy feeling if you choose, but don't feel entitled to lecture those who want to be compensated fairly for their work.

"The grass is always greener" and delayed gratification are 2 very different concepts.

 

[Beargryllz]

What are you talking about? Doctors are sacrificing the prime of their lives in order to train for their livelihoods, which they don't begin (independently) untill their early thirties anyway. Not to mention most haven't paid off their debt completely untill their forties.

Yes, we chose to be doctors and we knew what we were getting into, but that doesn't mean we don't deserve to be fairly compensated. Just because everyone else thinks physicians are over-compemsated doesn't mean that they actually are.

What do you want to "sacrifice the prime of your life" doing exactly? What exactly is it that medical students and doctors have to sacrifice?

Every time I hear this I picture a whiney student wishing they could play another round of CoD instead of learning a new procedure or doing something meaningful with their life