Obama: Nurses are superior to physicians in patient ethics and abilities

[tesla19]

I hate the argument "you knew what you were getting into, so don't complain". This does not mean that doctors can't work to improve their working conditions, salary etc. If we all took the above attitude, nothing would change at all.

As for physicians salaries, if anyone deserves high salaries, doctors do. I would even argue that many doctors should see an increase in reimbursment, though this will probably not happen given the current situation. Doctors need a more powerful lobby, real incomes have been declining for a while now, and yet instead of opposing all wage decreases unified, specialists and PCPs are fighting against each other, making it easier for Obama to use us as scapegoats.

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[Old_Mil]

Is this guy for real? What the hell happened to all the BS that he promised pre election?

What BS that he promised pre-election? With the help of a complicit media, he was marketed to the electorate more as a savior than as a president. He was always long on rhetoric, and short on substance. People read into "hope and change" what they wanted to believe.

 

[Top Gun]

Getting nurses to do the most routine of things in their job descriptions in NY is a miracle. They union is incredibly strong and they got the hospitals by the balls.

Yeah, tell me about it. When I was an intern, they couldn't even be bothered to do a simple thing like give an IV push of lasix or some other medication. They would just say, "Its against hospital policy for a nurse to do that,", when, in hospitals in other places, like Pennsylvania, nurses do that sort of thing every day. Same thing with putting a Foley catheter in a male patient. Ever notice how many hospital policies are so convenient for nurses? They get them out of doing even more work.

 

[Taurus]

The solution is simple people.

Don't hire or train advanced practice nurses like NP's or CRNA's.

Do you think that a new NP or CRNA grad can perform at the same level as a new attending? Of course not. You're not going to be very good if you only have 700 hours of clinical training and may have gotten your degree online. While they belittle physicians and say that they don't need supervision, these same NP's and CRNA's depend on physicians to train them for many years before they feel comfortable in the clinician role.

Let NP's and CRNA's hire and train themselves. It will be like the blind leading the blind.

We need to encourage the use of the legal system too. My license says that I can practice medicine and surgery, butI know better than to cut someone open. If non-physicians know that it is too risky and expensive to practice without physician supervision, then it doesn't matter what the laws say. Point out to patients when you see malpractice by non-physicians. Testify in courts and give your expert opinion.

If you support the medical profession, hire and train PA's and AA's. Simple solution.

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

maybe you should rethink your decision to embark on a long arduoous torturous journey tos tudy medicine .

Apparently, I can become a doctor with less years of training, less debt, and overall less sacrifice! Who knew? I must be such an idiot to still want to go into medicine.

 

[Coastie]

[youtube]PfReec-IVBU[/youtube]

 

[McGillGrad]

Unfortunately, if you own your own practice, this is going to sink you along with the PAs and NPs. They are often necessary for primary care physicians running their own practices for survive. Real life isn't simple.

The solution is simple people.

Don't hire or train advanced practice nurses like NP's or CRNA's.

Do you think that a new NP or CRNA grad can perform at the same level as a new attending? Of course not. You're not going to be very good if you only have 700 hours of clinical training and may have gotten your degree online. While they belittle physicians and say that they don't need supervision, these same NP's and CRNA's depend on physicians to train them for many years before they feel comfortable in the clinician role.

Let NP's and CRNA's hire and train themselves. It will be like the blind leading the blind.

We need to encourage the use of the legal system too. My license says that I can practice medicine and surgery, butI know better than to cut someone open. If non-physicians know that it is too risky and expensive to practice without physician supervision, then it doesn't matter what the laws say. Point out to patients when you see malpractice by non-physicians. Testify in courts and give your expert opinion.

If you support the medical profession, hire and train PA's and AA's. Simple solution.

 

[mig26x]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfReec-IVBU

Awesome!!! you should send this to the white house and CNN!! LOL.

Obama is taking to new levels the definition of ass kissing!! He's the president he shouldnt be ass kissing anybody but it seems he likes nurses!! The next time he goes in for a checkup or god forbide an hospitalization it should only be nurses!!!

 

[McGillGrad]

I am all about bashing all US presidents for fun, but it is Congress that has the power so I don't know why you're spinning your wheels with a figurehead like the US president.

 

[mig26x]

I am all about bashing all US presidents for fun, but it is Congress that has the power so I don't know why you're spinning your wheels with a figurehead like the US president.

well, wasnt him the one that:

1- did a news conference surrounded by nurses when he said that nurses are the ones that teach the intern "that doesnt know"

2- didnt the president said that when one of his kids needed an LP doctors were not around and nurses were there all the time.

 

[Coastie]

I am all about bashing all US presidents for fun, but it is Congress that has the power so I don't know why you're spinning your wheels with a figurehead like the US president.

Did you watch the original video in this thread?

Besides, Obama isn't a figurehead, he's President of the United States.

 

[McGillGrad]

Did you watch the original video in this thread?

Besides, Obama isn't a figurehead, he's President of the United States.

I feel awkward telling an American about his government, but the president has no legislative power. He is not in charge of making public policy, only shaping it.

 

[McGillGrad]

well, wasnt him the one that:

1- did a news conference surrounded by nurses when he said that nurses are the ones that teach the intern "that doesnt know"

2- didnt the president said that when one of his kids needed an LP doctors were not around and nurses were there all the time.

An wasn't Bush who supported physicians in his two terms? Did that help physicians at all? No, it didn't. It is all about pandering to the political base.

Why am I explaining basic political science to Americans?

 

[Coastie]

I feel awkward telling an American about his government, but the president has no legislative power. He is not in charge of making public policy, only shaping it.

Please stick to reprimanding those of your own country, Canada, and that of the island on which you attend medical school. I think American politics are handled by us Americans just fine.

Besides, I can slam Obama for pushing a socialist agenda. He has his fingers so deep in the legislative body, he can charge for a dental visit and prostate exam. Don't think Rahm Emmanuel is sitting by idly while blue dog dems snub their nose at Chairman Maobama.

 

[bakanoisha]

Physicians and Medical Students need to quit whining and actually do something. There are enough people on this site to start an EXTREMELY powerful grass-roots movement if the people commiting to it are willing to actively promote it. Whining on SDN doesn't qualify. I think there is enough passion in the community of physicians regarding this issue that if someone just lit a fire under their asses this could really take off.

We need to raise money and start our own campaigns, harass the media, hold town hall hearings, etc. We can't be complacent and expect a good result. Physicians earn a great salary, we can easily raise millions if physicians and their supporters are willing to sacrifice. This is a huge issue and it's worth it.

Sure, if Obama socializes medicine the average joe will more easily afford their doctor visit, but the federal government will have amassed ungodly power and the people in this country who are truly ill and dying will most likely not recieve the medical care (or recieve it too late) that would otherwise be available to them which would allow them to extend their lives.

I promise to work my ass off if something of this nature gets going... anybody else in?

 

[McGillGrad]

Obama is not socialist. He is centre-left. Socialism is Northern Europe and France.

Providing basic healthcare to all citizens is the foundation of a successful economy based on competition, not communism.

But that all goes over your head, doesn't it?

Please stick to reprimanding those of your own country, Canada, and that of the island on which you attend medical school. I think American politics are handled by us Americans just fine.

Besides, I can slam Obama for pushing a socialist agenda. He has his fingers so deep in the legislative body, he can charge for a dental visit and prostate exam. Don't think Rahm Emmanuel is sitting by idly while blue dog dems snub their nose at Chairman Maobama.

 

[nlax30]

I honestly feel a little sick after watching that video.

Since when do nurses diagnose and treat diseases, or check people out of the hospital..... and from my, so far, limited time spent in hospitals for rotations it's certainly not the nurses that have a problem with too much paper work. Good Lord, when rounding, pretty much everytime I saw an attending on the floor he/she was either going to see one of the 20 patients they had to check on, filling out paperwork for the chart, on the phone coordinating CARE FOR THE PATIENT, or taking care of issues such as missing lab work, or meds that were never given.

 

[Coastie]

Physicians and Medical Students need to quit whining and actually do something. There are enough people on this site to start an EXTREMELY powerful grass-roots movement if the people commiting to it are willing to actively promote it. Whining on SDN doesn't qualify. I think there is enough passion in the community of physicians regarding this issue that if someone just lit a fire under their asses this could really take off.

We need to raise money and start our own campaigns, harass the media, hold town hall hearings, etc. We can't be complacent and expect a good result. Physicians earn a great salary, we can easily raise millions if physicians and their supporters are willing to sacrifice. This is a huge issue and it's worth it.

Sure, if Obama socializes medicine the average joe will more easily afford their doctor visit, but the federal government will have amassed ungodly power and the people in this country who are truly ill and dying will most likely not recieve the medical care (or recieve it too late) that would otherwise be available to them which would allow them to extend their lives.

I promise to work my ass off if something of this nature gets going... anybody else in?

There are quite a few good organizations already in place to throw your weight and financial/time support behind.

As a citizen, call your representatives. Write them. Bug the crap out of them. Find good orgs to support. Don't vote Democrat next time around, and support Republicans in your district.

Be a great pre-med, get into medical school, get a good residency, and be in position to effect real change with your voice. More people will listen to a physician speaking out against socialized medicine than someone who has no involvement within the industry.

 

[Coastie]

I honestly feel a little sick after watching that video.

Since when do nurses diagnose and treat diseases, or check people out of the hospital..... and from my, so far, limited time spent in hospitals for rotations it's certainly not the nurses that have a problem with too much paper work. Good Lord, when rounding, pretty much everytime I saw an attending on the floor he/she was either going to see one of the 20 patients they had to check on, filling out paperwork for the chart, on the phone coordinating CARE FOR THE PATIENT, or taking care of issues such as missing lab work, or meds that were never given.

Just watch my video parody, and the rest of my videos: It'll ease the nausea with some humor....Pass them along to your friends, too. It's stuff every doctor should see.

 

[bakanoisha]

There are quite a few good organizations already in place to throw your weight and financial/time support behind.

As a citizen, call your representatives. Write them. Bug the crap out of them. Find good orgs to support. Don't vote Democrat next time around, and support Republicans in your district.

Be a great pre-med, get into medical school, get a good residency, and be in position to effect real change with your voice. More people will listen to a physician speaking out against socialized medicine than someone who has no involvement within the industry.

Thanks for the advice. I'll be starting medical school in a few days, and I'll definitely be politically active. Our current political situation makes me sick

Anyway, I understand that there are a few good organizations, but they obviously aren't good enough or organized enough because they are essentially voiceless. We hear from the nurses night and day, and the physicians are just the punching bag for politicians and mid-levels who have graduated themselves from medical school. I still think a grass-roots effort is necessary to organize and consolidate because the political impotence of physicians is more than apparent. I personally don't care if I make less money... I've never had money to begin with and I just want to be comfortable. I'm just indescribably pissed off by a government that is taking advantage of healthcare to expand their power to a dangerous level and extremely concerned over the direction of healthcare with mid-levels at the wheel who haven't learned enough to understand how much they really don't know.

 

[Coastie]

Keep your head up. Watch my youtube videos (see this thread). I have a good 5 of em up, and more to come. They'll keep you laughing about the Doctor Nurse thing for a while. Mostly slanted to Anesthesia, but generally funny for any doctor.

The orgs aren't as voiceless as the media wants you to believe. After all, do you see healthcare passed? Remember, we have a democrat SUPER MAJORITY, as in, the Republicans can't filibuster, can't stop bills, can't input their own agenda in the slightest.

With this massive liberal supermajority, they are still at a standstill. Thank your organizations and grassroot swell among the people for that. Now isn't the time to become complacent, though. Now is the time to stand up, speak your voice, and fight for what's right.

Starting medical school, you'll be inundated with socialistic sermons on a daily basis: Don't let it get you down. Just focus on your medical studies, and realize that's the best thing you can do right now (aside from calling congress, watching my youtube videos, and telling your friends to do the same).

Good luck.

Thanks for the advice. I'll be starting medical school in a few days, and I'll definitely be politically active. Our current political situation makes me sick

Anyway, I understand that there are a few good organizations, but they obviously aren't good enough or organized enough because they are essentially voiceless. We hear from the nurses night and day, and the physicians are just the punching bag for politicians and mid-levels who have graduated themselves from medical school. I still think a grass-roots effort is necessary to organize and consolidate because the political impotence of physicians is more than apparent. I personally don't care if I make less money... I've never had money to begin with and I just want to be comfortable. I'm just indescribably pissed off by a government that is taking advantage of healthcare to expand their power to a dangerous level and extremely concerned over the direction of healthcare with mid-levels at the wheel who haven't learned enough to understand how much they really don't know.

 

[bakanoisha]

Keep your head up. Watch my youtube videos (see this thread). I have a good 5 of em up, and more to come. They'll keep you laughing about the Doctor Nurse thing for a while. Mostly slanted to Anesthesia, but generally funny for any doctor.

The orgs aren't as voiceless as the media wants you to believe. After all, do you see healthcare passed? Remember, we have a democrat SUPER MAJORITY, as in, the Republicans can't filibuster, can't stop bills, can't input their own agenda in the slightest.

With this massive liberal supermajority, they are still at a standstill. Thank your organizations and grassroot swell among the people for that. Now isn't the time to become complacent, though. Now is the time to stand up, speak your voice, and fight for what's right.

Starting medical school, you'll be inundated with socialistic sermons on a daily basis: Don't let it get you down. Just focus on your medical studies, and realize that's the best thing you can do right now (aside from calling congress, watching my youtube videos, and telling your friends to do the same).

Good luck.

Well, thanks again! And, don't worry about me... As a cynic and a skeptic, I'm not easily influenced I'll bookmark your YouTube page and watch some of the vids after I run some errands!

 

[mig26x]

An wasn't Bush who supported physicians in his two terms? Did that help physicians at all? No, it didn't. It is all about pandering to the political base.

Why am I explaining basic political science to Americans?

hey!! im hispanic--> Puertorrican (which makes me usa citizen at birth, but hispanic). LOL.

dont judge someone by their username!! LOL.

 

[surgicalskills]

What BS that he promised pre-election? With the help of a complicit media, he was marketed to the electorate more as a savior than as a president. He was always long on rhetoric, and short on substance. People read into "hope and change" what they wanted to believe.

I don't have to tell you what he promised, just the "hope and change" is enough. Go back and see his speeches preelection. Anyway, my problem with him is that he is coming across as a ***** when discussing healthcare issues. He obviously is pandering. He is not stupid, just partial to specific groups (nurses)

 

[surgicalskills]

Why would you want a pat on the back??? This what you chose to go into. You asked for the long hours, hard work, the endless beauracracy, the petty politics, and diminshing wages. You knew that before you went to med school.

Anybody who works hard could use a pat on the back once in a while, you jerk. Take that "you chose to go into" argument and shove it up your ass.

 

[lowbudget]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!

Oh man. I can sleep well tonight having seen Coastie's Doctor Nurse thing and the Czech Health Minister get smacked.

Love it.

 

[berdugo75]

Oh yeah, we're only in it for "the money". Nurses do all the work, we do nothing. After all, they are not in it to "be rich".

Call to all residents: your profession is in trouble with this healthcare bill. This is a general message to all residents: Call your congressman/representative, and demand that Obama's healthcare plans do not come to pass!

At 8:38 he says that nurses buck up young residents who "don't know what they are doing".

Hello, guys? DNP's coming your way. Wake up, fellow physicians. Our duties to our patients demand it.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLJYy4jQ3wM[/YOUTUBE]

LOL...nice try

Obama, you are so right, nurses "aren't in it for the money" and don't have to eat and provide for their families or take vacations or spend any money; nurses must be coming in droves from the places like the Philippines just so they could be away from their families and not make money.
BUCK UP my foot

LOL...nice try

Oh yeah, we're only in it for "the money". Nurses do all the work, we do nothing. After all, they are not in it to "be rich".

Call to all residents: your profession is in trouble with this healthcare bill. This is a general message to all residents: Call your congressman/representative, and demand that Obama's healthcare plans do not come to pass!

At 8:38 he says that nurses buck up young residents who "don't know what they are doing".

Hello, guys? DNP's coming your way. Wake up, fellow physicians. Our duties to our patients demand it.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLJYy4jQ3wM[/YOUTUBE]

I guess that's why the Surgeon General is a nurse....NOT!!!!!!

 

[notinkansas]

I reject the premise that doing a job you expect to be paid well for (ie being "in it for the money") is NOT inherently evil.

As far as the "you knew what you were getting into" argument, I would submit that most of us really didn't know what we were getting in to. Especially since the multitude of government agencies keep changing the rules while we are in prolonged training. I certainly didn't have any clue about most of the things that ultimately wound up driving me out of clinical medicine. And in my new job as a consultant, which I start next month, I don't know exactly what I'm getting into there. I know what i think it will be. It remains to be seen if my assumptions are correct.

I'm not sure where the open hostility towards doctors in our government is coming from. But the fact that we don't have an effective lobby isn't helping.

 

[maceo]

I'm not sure where the open hostility towards doctors in our government is coming from. But the fact that we don't have an effective lobby isn't helping.

they think we make too much money for too little work and effort and sacrifice.

Of course none of them have had to endure the eight years of pain and sacrifice which is medicine

 

[Coastie]

LOL, Obama has proven to be more socialist than all of Europe and France combined.

I love seeing these year old posts...

Obama is not socialist. He is centre-left. Socialism is Northern Europe and France.

Providing basic healthcare to all citizens is the foundation of a successful economy based on competition, not communism.

But that all goes over your head, doesn't it?

 

[nima123]

Wow...never thought of Obama as an arrogant ******* populist, but I guess that's the truest description he gets, at least after hearing this speech.

 

[Jet915]

This guy makes me sick, I'm sure when he get's ill, he'll ask for a DNP instead of an MD, yeah right...

 

[SDN]

Thread glitch fixed... carry on.

 

[Vacant]

Maybe I'm being naive but here are some solutions to the whole NP, DNP problems if FM and IM docs really want to end them quickly.

1. Simply refuse to "supervise" NP/DNP. Let them practice medicine independently as they want and let them handle all complications on their own and malpractice lawsuits on their own. Very quickly nurses will shy away and the public will clearly see the huge gap between nurses and physicians.

2. Regulate the licensing of independent Nurses. Rightfully, make them take the same board exam that FM/IM docs take. If they fail, they can't practice independently. This is only rightful and lawful and fair in the eyes of all. NP/DNPs also argue that their training and knowledge are equal to those of FM/IM docs. So then, they should be able to prove it.

3. Stop training nurses. Physicians should train physicians. Nurses should train nurses. Period.

4. Collect money and make one quick TV ad segment on the educational difference between doctors and nurses in the name of safety of the viewers, the patients. They have a right to know the glaring difference.

I don't know why any of these cannot be done. Also all of these are very legitimate and fair measures that nurses themselves have no reason to object to any of these. There is no lying, no exaggeration, no emotions involved here.

One anecdote: an IM attending in my team at a VA hospital, when rounding he makes sure that no nurses interfere or even stand near the team of residents, interns and med students. If a nurse would stand there and try to ask or say something when not directly summoned by him, he would either completely ignore her or stare at her with no expression on his face to make it clear that she is stepping over her boundary without him saying anything. And indeed she would step away. At that time as a 3rd yr med student I didn't understand why he was doing that. But I see clearly now this young attending's wisdom in doing so.

 

[Arcan57]

One anecdote: an IM attending in my team at a VA hospital, when rounding he makes sure that no nurses interfere or even stand near the team of residents, interns and med students. If a nurse would stand there and try to ask or say something when not directly summoned by him, he would either completely ignore her or stare at her with no expression on his face to make it clear that she is stepping over her boundary without him saying anything. And indeed she would step away. At that time as a 3rd yr med student I didn't understand why he was doing that. But I see clearly now this young attending's wisdom in doing so.

Just to be clear, being an arrogant jerk to nurses as an attending is a terrible way stop the proliferation of NPs. It's dangerous for the patients and it's more likely to encourage the best and brightest nurses to pursue an NP degree because of the lack of respect.

 

[kitsunepixie]

Just to be clear, being an arrogant jerk to nurses as an attending is a terrible way stop the proliferation of NPs. It's dangerous for the patients and it's more likely to encourage the best and brightest nurses to pursue an NP degree because of the lack of respect.

I agree...I was with Vacant til this part. We include our RNs/NPs when we do rounds because it improves and facilitates patient care. Granted, I'm in a surgical specialty that is not endangered by the encroachment of midlevels--for us, a good NP or PA makes our life so much less painful and we can concentrate on being surgeons, so they have a very distinctly carved role to play...

 

[JaggerPlate]

Granted, I'm in a surgical specialty that is not endangered by the encroachment of midlevels--

... yet.


Also, I agree that RNs who work as NURSES in hospitals shouldn't be treated poorly, but I see no reason to show the DNPs any sort of clemency when they despise physicians and focus so much effort on belittling their skills, empathy, motives, etc.

 

[Vacant]

Just to be clear, being an arrogant jerk to nurses as an attending is a terrible way stop the proliferation of NPs. It's dangerous for the patients and it's more likely to encourage the best and brightest nurses to pursue an NP degree because of the lack of respect.

I should have been more precise in my description. In defense of that attending, I must say that he did not at any point acted or said anything that was unprofessional or was being an "arrogant jerk." In fact he is one of the most polite and professional attendings I've worked with. The way I described the scene may have portrayed such view. I was trying to give a sense of what was happening with my own interpretation.

The point was this: he made it clear that there is a role that nurses play and a role that physicians play in patient care. When physicians and physicians in training are discussing patient's case, he does not expect nurses to interrupt the meeting unless they are asked to. I see nothing wrong with this, and this is expected in all systems where hierarchy of responsibility exists.

Do other attendings like being interrupted or being second-guessed about your diagnosis or management decision by a nurse? Before discussing with the team he did ask the overnight nurse for any pertinent info.

My personal view of the purpose of nursing profession is to aid physicians as their arms and hearts for all the patients that time-strapped physicians just can't do in order to be efficient in treating all patients that must be attended. Thus the title "nursing" profession. It's an oxymoron to have nurses making medical decisions instead of "nursing." If nurses make medical decisions, then what are physicians for? The fact that NP/DNP are treating patients independently carries two possible interpretations:

1. Patient care in primary care setting is indeed not so difficult and can be done by NP/DNP. This means physician training is largely impractical having to spend so many agonizing years when it can be done in much shorter time with much less work. Nurse training is that much more practical.

2. NP/DNP are harming patient care by overstepping their limit. We will have to wait to see if patients will be harmed by them acting as physicians. But that will never be proven if physicians continue to provide supervision for "independent" NP/DNPs.

 

[phisigman03]

Just to be clear, being an arrogant jerk to nurses as an attending is a terrible way stop the proliferation of NPs. It's dangerous for the patients and it's more likely to encourage the best and brightest nurses to pursue an NP degree because of the lack of respect.

Being nice and professional I agree but if the brightest and best of RNs is going to pursue something more then go to medical school. It is like you said for the better for our patients.

 

[Vacant]

I agree...I was with Arcan57 til this part. We include our RNs/NPs when we do rounds because it improves and facilitates patient care. Granted, I'm in a surgical specialty that is not endangered by the encroachment of midlevels--for us, a good NP or PA makes our life so much less painful and we can concentrate on being surgeons, so they have a very distinctly carved role to play...

I see no reason why experienced surgical nurses won't be able to perform certain procedures "under supervision." Of all medical fields surgery is, to my view, a matter of visuo-manual practice. Mastectomy and lumpectomy, for example, don't require much esoteric medical knowledge to perform.

 

[Vacant]

I should also add that making medical decisions and treating patients are privileges given by a society to a certain group of people called licensed physicians. Certain aspects of patient care may indeed be simple and does not require complex understanding. But that does not mean this privileges can be handed out to everyone who took some courses. Even if medical care is a matter of simple algorithms that anyone with a half brain can follow by reading some manuals or Uptodate, this privilege remains a privilege confined to licensed physicians. All the hooplas that physicians must go through to obtain this privilege is meant to be a selection process in order to ensure quality of care.

Now if a society decides that this privilege to care for their bodies should be given to nurses as well, then there is nothing we can do to stop that since it is the society that gives that privilege. We will just have to let individual patients decide who they would want to be treated by. The only thing we need to ensure is that no NP/DNPs dare to pretend or falsely present themselves as "physicians" to fool patients who want to be treated by a doctor. Let people choose as in free market system.

 

[Arcan57]

Being nice and professional I agree but if the brightest and best of RNs is going to pursue something more then go to medical school. It is like you said for the better for our patients.

I'm not talking about nurses pursuing advanced degrees. I'm talking about keeping the good nurses working in a clinical capacity AS NURSES. I'm talking about creating working conditions where good nurses are content in their current roles as vital members of the health care team. Instead of encouraging every nurse that's even halfway competent to get out of clinical nursing into administration or advanced degrees because of a negative environment.

 

[fab4fan]

I'm not talking about nurses pursuing advanced degrees. I'm talking about keeping the good nurses working in a clinical capacity AS NURSES. I'm talking about creating working conditions where good nurses are content in their current roles as vital members of the health care team. Instead of encouraging every nurse that's even halfway competent to get out of clinical nursing into administration or advanced degrees because of a negative environment.

You know it's going to take way more than doctors being nice to nurses for that to happen, don't you?

 

[mig26x]

I got to give it to nurses in terms of spending more time with patients, etc etc. Hey, they only have what? 4-6 patients per 12 hours shift? and they are in teh same floor as the patient? wow. As a Hospitalist I have from 20-25 patients, do admissions, procedures and my patients are all spread through a 3 building hospital with multiple floors.

So lets give nurses 20 patients for them to be their nurses in different places in the hospital and lets see how they do.

 

[Arcan57]

You know it's going to take way more than doctors being nice to nurses for that to happen, don't you?

Yeah, but if being respected by physicians keeps someone in clinical nursing even a year more it's a win. Especially since there doesn't seem to be any pending regulation increasing length of time a nurse must be in practice prior to pursuing an advanced degree. And with the push to make the DNP the standard advanced practice degree, that's going to further disencentive nurses to stay in clinical nursing for any length of time secondary to the increased length of schooling. You are going to have more "nurses" in the future that have less than two years of actual nursing. They will then go through a clinically non-rigorous doctorate degree and finish with jack in the way of useful skills. And still be able to go into solo practice.

And while "being nice" isn't a panacea, I can't really do much about what I've seen as the main dissatisifier of nurses, administration.

 

[petyr_baelish]

This video enrages me!

WHY is this man we call President flat out ignoring the contributions of physicians by saying nothing about them,andactively denigrating the profession as a whole by saying how nurses steer "young residents who don't know what they're doing" in the right direction? Oh right, because he openly admits his bias toward nurses. That makes everything okay.

I am NOT voting for Obama in the next election. He is only concerned with helping the underdogs in American society not because he is Robin Hood's benevolent incarnate, but because he is trying to get votes. Think about it: there are more nurses than doctors, so he sides with the nurses. There are more poor people than rich people, so he sides with the poor. Good strategy, Obama.The history books will love you too!

 

[fab4fan]

Yeah, but if being respected by physicians keeps someone in clinical nursing even a year more it's a win. Especially since there doesn't seem to be any pending regulation increasing length of time a nurse must be in practice prior to pursuing an advanced degree. And with the push to make the DNP the standard advanced practice degree, that's going to further disencentive nurses to stay in clinical nursing for any length of time secondary to the increased length of schooling. You are going to have more "nurses" in the future that have less than two years of actual nursing. They will then go through a clinically non-rigorous doctorate degree and finish with jack in the way of useful skills. And still be able to go into solo practice.

And while "being nice" isn't a panacea, I can't really do much about what I've seen as the main dissatisifier of nurses, administration.

If there was something I could do about that, believe me, I would. It's a runaway train. Way back in the olden days, the only people who applied to be nurse practitioners were the grizzled veterans. The only thing I can do about it now is refuse to have any of my medical care delivered by any of these bubbleheads.

Being treated with respect is definitely a plus, and I thank you for being someone who takes other staff into consideration. It definitely doesn't happen everywhere.

 

[phisigman03]

Unfortunately, if you own your own practice, this is going to sink you along with the PAs and NPs. They are often necessary for primary care physicians running their own practices for survive. Real life isn't simple.

First you try to give advice to medical students when you haven't even matriculated. Now you are giving advices to Doctors and you have no experiences what so ever.

 

[mig26x]

the monetary argument about saving healthcare money has already been answer when:

1- Nursing movement is asking for 100% payment reimbursement. We are already seen this with midwives asking for this 100%.

So the big issue is academic preparation. Nursing school doesnt prepare you to become a physician and med school doesnt prepare you to become a nurse. totally different worlds with different roles. It still surprises me that SOME nurses say they can be equal to physicians when Dx and Tx patients comes to.

And another thing, why is it that when physicians argue against nurses becoming "physicians" is all about the money but when nurses argue about equality compare to doctors is all about patient safety/representation? I think is the other way around!!!

 

[mig26x]

This video enrages me!

WHY is this man we call President flat out ignoring the contributions of physicians by saying nothing about them,andactively denigrating the profession as a whole by saying how nurses steer "young residents who don't know what they're doing" in the right direction? Oh right, because he openly admits his bias toward nurses. That makes everything okay.

I am NOT voting for Obama in the next election. He is only concerned with helping the underdogs in American society not because he is Robin Hood's benevolent incarnate, but because he is trying to get votes. Think about it: there are more nurses than doctors, so he sides with the nurses. There are more poor people than rich people, so he sides with the poor. Good strategy, Obama.The history books will love you too!

I voted for Obama. I wont do it in 2012 if his the candidate. That statement by Obama about residents not knowing what they are doing got to me ( when it came out I was a PGY3 IM) and the respect that I had for Obama drop like a flying bird without wings. One thing is to give props to nurses when talking to them but another thing is to take a group of people not present in the room and use them to sweep the floor.


Sorry Obama, but you let me down on this one.