MD & DO NYU med student hangs herself in dorm room

[MSTPlease]

I don’t think it’s fewer cries for help. I think as above that it’s greater knowledge and access to lethal means. I believe the big difference between male and female suicide success rates in the general population is gun usage.

I was highlighting it more because it goes somewhat counter to “the narrative.” Yes, female physicians die by suicide more often and that is considered a sign of the stressors of a medical career, but if they are less likely to be suicidal, just better at actually doing it - does that not contradict the idea that medicine is overly stressful.

Obviously one has to weigh the various qualities of the evidence but I thought it was worth highlighting because I imagine most of us would be surprised by the fact that the suicide attempt rate is lower. Or maybe it’s just me.

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[Microshaft]

Values are meaningless past a certain point of suffering. Some Christians have a fear of hell that creates a barrier between themselves and suicide, others do not, but given the right circumstances, barriers break. All of your talk of the prefrontal cortex shows a strong misunderstanding of the nature of suicide- it is usually a choice that results in a time of great suffering when your higher level thinking is compromised from sleep deprivation, emotional trauma, hopelessness, or any number of other things. This is why the vast majority of people that survive or are talked down from a suicide attempt do not try to do so again- it was never a well thought out action, it was the result of a temporary state of circumstances and thinking that bypassed their normal protective mechanisms and patterns of thought. To the vast majority of the world that don't live their lives in fear of damnation, they decide in the moment that no longer living is superior to the seemingly oppressive and unending pain before them.

You also don't seem to understand depression. It isn't about social media, relationships, material possessions, or devotion to one's religion. You can have a perfect marriage, career, car, home, bank account, etc and still find yourself in the grip of depression, as it is often biochemical in nature and not circumstantial. It saps the joy from everything you do, like a beast in your mind sucking the brightness from your world without cause or purpose. It takes your energy, and makes you fail to see options that would otherwise be readily apparent. And it makes the hard times feel oh so much worse, and every little setback and inconvenience feel like a serious drain on your already low energy. You may have resources and options, but you can't see them through the mental fog, and even when you catch a glimpse, you're often too drained to gather the strength to set things in motion when you can barely peel yourself out of bed or make yourself breakfast.

Depression isn't just feeling sad. It's feeling drained beyond belief and feeling a world without joy or pleasure when it's bad. It's every food giving you the pleasure of plain oatmeal, the things you used to enjoy feeling as fulfilling as watching a blank screen, the partner you know you love feeling like nothing more than a warm body next to you even though you intellectually know they mean the world to you but it is a feeling you no longer grasp. Your body feels heavy and your energy nonexistent, and basic tasks feel Herculean in nature due to the sheer effort slicing a tomato, paying a bill, or contacting a friend seems to take. Larger tasks feel all but impossible. Joy becomes an unfathomable concept, and even small moments of happiness a distant memory.

You throw all of that at a perfect life and it is, well, miserable. You throw it at someone that is in a life that feels inescapable, such as that of a medical student or resident, and conditions can feel unbearable and unending.

I know this to be the general consensus but I wonder what you would think of this.

If a depressed person suddenly gained the ability to change anything in her life with the snap of a finger, I'm sure she could think of something that would get her out of depression. Or if she doesn't know what needs to be changed, there is still exists some kind of environmental change that would possibly bring her out of a depressed state (no matter how unrealistic the change is). The point being that the brain chemistry can screw you, but I imagine that there is something within the realm of the physical world that can remedy depression (again, no matter how unrealistic it is).

 

[Mad Jack]

I know this to be the general consensus but I wonder what you would think of this.

If a depressed person suddenly gained the ability to change anything in her life with the snap of a finger, I'm sure she could think of something that would get her out of depression. Or if she doesn't know what needs to be changed, there is still exists some kind of environmental change that would possibly bring her out of a depressed state (no matter how unrealistic the change is). The point being that the brain chemistry can screw you, but I imagine that there is something within the realm of the physical world that can remedy depression (again, no matter how unrealistic it is).

The thing is, people that have this sort of depression just have a lower emotional set point, as it were. And no matter what happens, emotionally our bodies have a certain baseline mood that they try to go back to. For most of us that mood is a state of normalcy without misery, but for these individuals it is a state of depression. They might feel slightly better due to some change in their life, but that feeling would be fleetig and they would ultimately sink back to where they were (if they even got out of that state at all).

This is all theoretical, of course, but has a strong basis in genetics and twin studies that evaluated the temperament of siblings and twins that were raised in different environments. Depression is, of course, multifactorial in nature, and environment plays a part, but for some once it is kicked off it is no longer a question of circumstances or life changes. These aren't the people who you think of as typically depressed, they're the ones that cannot feel any sense of joy in life regardless of circumstance and feel there is truly no reason to live. Most depression, the normal sort, is amenable to change, however, and these cases are the rarity, not the norm.

 

[shapley]

Breaks my heart. I worked a suicide-hotline and this reality stings even harder that so many med students and physicians have a hard time opening up.

 

[Mass Effect]

This makes me wonder if the resident and med student knew one another and if the suicides are related in some way.

 

[starwarz]

This makes me wonder if the resident and med student knew one another and if the suicides are related in some way.

I had the same thought but could also just be a copycat or a coincidence. Still, I wonder why NYU won't release the name of this resident?

I have read the same stats about psychiatry suicide -- often, people who go into this field have mental illness in their family or their own lives, and are driven to understand themselves (or those close to them). Still, they should be trained to see earliest possible warning signs.

 

[Mass Effect]

Still, they should be trained to see earliest possible warning signs.

What makes you think they're not?

 

[Small Cell Carcinoma]

The thing is, people that have this sort of depression just have a lower emotional set point, as it were. And no matter what happens, emotionally our bodies have a certain baseline mood that they try to go back to. For most of us that mood is a state of normalcy without misery, but for these individuals it is a state of depression. They might feel slightly better due to some change in their life, but that feeling would be fleetig and they would ultimately sink back to where they were (if they even got out of that state at all).

This is all theoretical, of course, but has a strong basis in genetics and twin studies that evaluated the temperament of siblings and twins that were raised in different environments. Depression is, of course, multifactorial in nature, and environment plays a part, but for some once it is kicked off it is no longer a question of circumstances or life changes. These aren't the people who you think of as typically depressed, they're the ones that cannot feel any sense of joy in life regardless of circumstance and feel there is truly no reason to live. Most depression, the normal sort, is amenable to change, however, and these cases are the rarity, not the norm.

I have always found this very interesting as it seems like most people who are depressed are so due to circumstances in their lives. If given the change they want, these people would likely instantaneously cease to be depressed. In this regard it seems possible that these cases are not depression in the traditional sense (malfunction in reward circuits of the brain, ect) but perhaps due to inadequate coping mechanisms and/or support networks.

 

[Mad Jack]

I have always found this very interesting as it seems like most people who are depressed are so due to circumstances in their lives. If given the change they want, these people would likely instantaneously cease to be depressed. In this regard it seems possible that these cases are not depression in the traditional sense (malfunction in reward circuits of the brain, ect) but perhaps due to inadequate coping mechanisms and/or support networks.

That is most depression. 90-95% of depression is situational, and I'd say probably 85-90% of anxiety is as well. But there's those people that just feel life is pointless/meaningless/unrewarding/lacking in joy consistently with no identifiable traumas or issues that are difficult. It's usually just how it has always been. They're difficult cases, because with no root cause there can be no plan of change or therapy. Interestingly though, they're not necessarily suicidal, but the ones that are suicidal are often intractably so. Was an excellent mini-documentary I saw recently on the creepy cute culture of Japan that had a former idol that fit the stereotype perfectly- she was an idol, had a loving boyfriend, had a fashion line, and all of this other stuff, but she just felt life was meaningless and wanted to die, and had several very serious suicide attempts, the last one breaking both of her legs and landing her in the hospital for quite some time.

 

[MSTPlease]

Still, I wonder why NYU won't release the name of this resident?

Maybe the family asked that it not be? Neither NYU nor the OCME have any obligation to release the name to the public.

 

[NeurologyHopeful2018]

That is most depression. 90-95% of depression is situational, and I'd say probably 85-90% of anxiety is as well. But there's those people that just feel life is pointless/meaningless/unrewarding/lacking in joy consistently with no identifiable traumas or issues that are difficult. It's usually just how it has always been. They're difficult cases, because with no root cause there can be no plan of change or therapy. Interestingly though, they're not necessarily suicidal, but the ones that are suicidal are often intractably so. Was an excellent mini-documentary I saw recently on the creepy cute culture of Japan that had a former idol that fit the stereotype perfectly- she was an idol, had a loving boyfriend, had a fashion line, and all of this other stuff, but she just felt life was meaningless and wanted to die, and had several very serious suicide attempts, the last one breaking both of her legs and landing her in the hospital for quite some time.

I met quite a few patients like her (I did several psych rotations in M4 year). You know what cured almost all of them? Exercise. Run 5 miles along a scenic route and your brain is suddenly different. Your body is also full of endorphins.

 

[Mad Jack]

I met quite a few patients like her (I did several psych rotations in M4 year). You know what cured almost all of them? Exercise. Run 5 miles along a scenic route and your brain is suddenly different. Your body is also full of endorphins.

You're, again, mistaking regular depression (which can absolutely be helped by diet and exercise) for the sort of depression I'm talking about. Everyone should try diet and exercise, because it'll make literally everything better in your life, save for maybe your knees. But I've known marathon runners, competitive cyclists, bodybuilders, and many other highly athletic and active people that still suffer from every sort of depression, including the one we're discussing now. The idea that what makes you feel good can fix anyone else is a self-centered and quite frankly dismissively toxic view toward depression, as what works for one person doesn't work for everyone else, and furthermore it promotes the idea that depression is a disease that is the fault of the person who has it for just "not trying enough."

 

[Waldeinsamkeit]

Med School and physician suicide is a real problem. We are high-achieving, type A personalities in a society that doesn't accept failure. I hope everyone here that is struggling can reach out for help if they are hurting, and can offer help if they see something that is concerning.

Idk how much is baggage coming in, and how much of it is due to medical school directly. I was happy enough coming in, but studying all the time, losing touch with family, friends, hobbies-you start to lose your identity and your personhood to some extent. I was never suicidal, but there were definitely times I was seriously ill and didn’t do anything about it bc I didn’t care about myself/my health bc it feels like there’s nothing there to lose. Meh, I’m better now, and I know everyone has to do it. It still sucks.

 

[Waldeinsamkeit]

I met quite a few patients like her (I did several psych rotations in M4 year). You know what cured almost all of them? Exercise. Run 5 miles along a scenic route and your brain is suddenly different. Your body is also full of endorphins.

Delete you account.

 

[Waldeinsamkeit]

I discount depression all the time and will roll my imaginary eyes at you and think about where I would like to have lunch while you drone on about how depressed you are. Especially if you're having coffee, complaining about the food, sitting and chatting with me. Even if you endorse all sigecaps criteria. Maybe you have borderline personality disorder or a handful of other psych conditions that acutally puts you at higher risk of killing yourself than a truly depressed patient (this is why it's wrong to assume suicides are the result of depression).

What I will not discount or underestimate, is your risk to yourself.

Edgelord af

 

[Waldeinsamkeit]

I don’t think it’s fewer cries for help. I think as above that it’s greater knowledge and access to lethal means. I believe the big difference between male and female suicide success rates in the general population is gun usage.

I was highlighting it more because it goes somewhat counter to “the narrative.” Yes, female physicians die by suicide more often and that is considered a sign of the stressors of a medical career, but if they are less likely to be suicidal, just better at actually doing it - does that not contradict the idea that medicine is overly stressful.

Obviously one has to weigh the various qualities of the evidence but I thought it was worth highlighting because I imagine most of us would be surprised by the fact that the suicide attempt rate is lower. Or maybe it’s just me.

I don’t think it’s fewer cries for help. I think as above that it’s greater knowledge and access to lethal means. I believe the big difference between male and female suicide success rates in the general population is gun usage.

I was highlighting it more because it goes somewhat counter to “the narrative.” Yes, female physicians die by suicide more often and that is considered a sign of the stressors of a medical career, but if they are less likely to be suicidal, just better at actually doing it - does that not contradict the idea that medicine is overly stressful.

Obviously one has to weigh the various qualities of the evidence but I thought it was worth highlighting because I imagine most of us would be surprised by the fact that the suicide attempt rate is lower. Or maybe it’s just me.

I just don’t understand the multiple articles about female physicians killing themselves. First of all, why does it have to be broken down into gender at all? Secondly, I haven’t heard anyone try to frame it as a male issue ever. Not trying to be weird just confused.

 

[MSTPlease]

I just don’t understand the multiple articles about female physicians killing themselves. First of all, why does it have to be broken down into gender at all? Secondly, I haven’t heard anyone try to frame it as a male issue ever. Not trying to be weird just confused.

Tracking the gender of suicide victims makes perfect sense to me for 2 reasons: 1. society does not treat men and women the same, 2. male and female brains have some differences that we have not yet established as being completely irrelevant to the topic. In fact, I think we've done the opposite (e.g. men don't really get postpartum depression/psychosis because male brains aren't being put through a hormonal ringer) I haven't heard anyone try to frame it as a male issue either so I'm not sure what you are getting at. I haven't really seen many articles focusing on male OR female physician suicides. They typically discuss both.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

I just don’t understand the multiple articles about female physicians killing themselves. First of all, why does it have to be broken down into gender at all? Secondly, I haven’t heard anyone try to frame it as a male issue ever. Not trying to be weird just confused.

Males are much more at risk for suicide than women in the general population (women try more, but men succeed more in suicide completion). The proportions of women successfully committing suicide in the medical world, however, is much larger. The discrepancy is what is “interesting,” at least on an academic level.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[deleted103644]

Values are what keep you going when life falls apart. Viktor Frankl wrote brilliantly about it in his savage takedown of living in Nazi concentration camps and how his sense of purpose “Man’s Search for Meaning” kept him alive. For reasons unknown to him as a neurologist and psychiatrist, many of his fellow Jews gave up on life and they escalated their murder. The Nazis targeted Jews in the camps who appeared weak, not viable for slave work and unproductive. Dr Frankl would not allow that to be hung on him even if interiorly it was tempting. So yes, values, faith, belief in yourself or your roots.....all crucial to existence. One can argue that today’s rampant nihilism and dictatorship of relativism have exacerbated our unhinged toxic culture in America.

I dont know a single person who fears “hell”. Your broad brush statement is antiquated and reflects your animus. I am also Catholic and hell isnt part of our daily lexicon, but supplication to God for help is...at least for me

As for your other claim....you missed the few posts I have authored where I indicate I have a therapist, I take psych meds and I am having mental health issues....connect the dots. Additionally my aunt committed suicide (a nurse), another aunt (also a nurse) underwent Electroconvulsive Shock Therapy, my father battled depression all of his life and refused to seek help, plus my brother, during medical school, attempted suicide. I had to get a court order to have him committed involuntarily to a CSU to stabilize him. Then there is me: I tried to end my life years ago but my doctors told me it wasnt a true suicide attempt but rather trying to stop the pain. So yeah, I know depression up front and personal. The neuroscientist I quoted, Dr Barbara Lipska, is 110% correct. We do not understand mental illness and treatment success is multipronged, success is hit and miss, and it will always be a challenge. If we face it and deal with it, it actually makes us better healers...like Dr Lipska argues in her excellent book. I recommend everyone to buy it. It is surreal and a quick read. She is the leading brain researcher in the world and director of NIMH

The Neuroscientist Who Lost Her Mind: My Tale of Madness and Recovery Hardcover – April 3, 2018, by Barbara K. Lipska Ph.D (Author), Elaine McArdle (Author)

I started this thread because I was (and am) very upset. I have self-regulated since then, used my various resources (refer to my reply above) and more or less landed. Step 1 is making life anxious, miserable and the fear has paralyzed me, e.g. fetal position on floor in darkness, unable to move...you get the picture (or should). My therapist and associate dean are totally behind me but they know it is ultimately in my hands to overcome this....

I dont understand why the NYU medical student committed suicide as improbable as that may sound coming from me. But I choose to get up, eventually, from my dark moments, I choose to see my therapist, I choose to have real friends in the flesh and I choose to surroud myself with loving, affirming, supportive people. The internet, social media, texting or making 50k posts on SDN, IG, FB are no substitute. I think the latter has underminded our mental health as many studies have already stated

I will be OK. I just wish everyone who is at that dark, awful precipice like the NYU medical student, could make that pivot. When they dont, and succumb to it, it really rattles me, hence this thread. For the life of me it could just as easily be me but I labor to not have that happen. Ironically many who commit suicide dont show any signs to their friends like the NYU student, or me for that matter, so it behooves us who fight with this monster mano a mano to be real, authentic and transparent with ourselves and our support system. I tell my husband and he is aware. But there are days when the floor, a dark room and clutching my pillow while I whimper are the best I can do for that moment. Step 1 prep has made that really clear

For anyone who is in this type of dark throes, definitely reach out in real life to those around you, be vulnerable, get help, do the daily work and get up! because life is worth living, and your life is treasured by many even if you think otherwise.

Did you seriously just victim blame people who died in concentration camps?

 

[apoplectic]

Did you seriously just victim blame people who died in concentration camps?

"It is first of all a book about survival. Like so many German and East European Jews who thought themselves secure in the 1930s, Frankl was cast into the Nazi network of concentration and extermination camps. Miraculously, he survived, in the biblical phrase “a brand plucked from the fire.” But his account in this book is less about his travails, what he suffered and lost, than it is about the sources of his strength to survive. Several times in the course of the book, Frankl approvingly quotes the words of Nietzsche: “He who has a Why to live for can bear almost any How.” He describes poignantly those prisoners who gave up on life, who had lost all hope for a future and were inevitably the first to die. They died less from lack of food or medicine than from lack of hope, lack of something to live for. By contrast, Frankl kept himself alive and kept hope alive by summoning up thoughts of his wife and the prospect of seeing her again, and by dreaming at one point of lecturing after the war about the psychological lessons to be learned from the Auschwitz experience. Clearly, many prisoners who desperately wanted to live did die, some from disease, some in the crematoria. But Frankl’s concern is less with the question of why most died than it is with the question of why anyone at all survived." -From the Foreword, written by Rabbi HAROLD S. KUSHNER

Frankl, Viktor. Man's Search for Meaning (Kindle Location 54). Beacon Press. Kindle Edition.


"The privilege of actually smoking cigarettes was reserved for the Capo, who had his assured quota of weekly coupons; or possibly for a prisoner who worked as a foreman in a warehouse or workshop and received a few cigarettes in exchange for doing dangerous jobs. The only exceptions to this were those who had lost the will to live and wanted to “enjoy” their last days. Thus, when we saw a comrade smoking his own cigarettes, we knew he had given up faith in his strength to carry on, and, once lost, the will to live seldom returned."

Frankl, Viktor. Man's Search for Meaning (Kindle Location 159). Beacon Press. Kindle Edition. ​

You have authored 11K comments. Don''t let facts get in the way of attacking others.

You and others could have addressed the topic of the thread, or read Dr Frankl's book instead of vilifying another SDN member. But this is the internet and attacking others is blood sport. It is no surprise why medical students commit suicide precisely because if and when they reach for help, people mock and marginalize them.

but then again, MadJack, who couldn't get accepted to MD school but instead went to DO, says he had a petite mal seizure that cured him of his alleged depression when he was a teenager, so there is that to consider

SDN is like every other internet site: a black hole of crack addicts. this is no place to have a mature conversation about mental health when SDN users with 5000 comments to their name live on here out of raw addiction

I'll stick to Rabbi Kushner any day

 

[deleted103644]

"It is first of all a book about survival. Like so many German and East European Jews who thought themselves secure in the 1930s, Frankl was cast into the Nazi network of concentration and extermination camps. Miraculously, he survived, in the biblical phrase “a brand plucked from the fire.” But his account in this book is less about his travails, what he suffered and lost, than it is about the sources of his strength to survive. Several times in the course of the book, Frankl approvingly quotes the words of Nietzsche: “He who has a Why to live for can bear almost any How.” He describes poignantly those prisoners who gave up on life, who had lost all hope for a future and were inevitably the first to die. They died less from lack of food or medicine than from lack of hope, lack of something to live for. By contrast, Frankl kept himself alive and kept hope alive by summoning up thoughts of his wife and the prospect of seeing her again, and by dreaming at one point of lecturing after the war about the psychological lessons to be learned from the Auschwitz experience. Clearly, many prisoners who desperately wanted to live did die, some from disease, some in the crematoria. But Frankl’s concern is less with the question of why most died than it is with the question of why anyone at all survived." -From the Foreword, written by Rabbi HAROLD S. KUSHNER

Frankl, Viktor. Man's Search for Meaning (Kindle Location 54). Beacon Press. Kindle Edition.


"The privilege of actually smoking cigarettes was reserved for the Capo, who had his assured quota of weekly coupons; or possibly for a prisoner who worked as a foreman in a warehouse or workshop and received a few cigarettes in exchange for doing dangerous jobs. The only exceptions to this were those who had lost the will to live and wanted to “enjoy” their last days. Thus, when we saw a comrade smoking his own cigarettes, we knew he had given up faith in his strength to carry on, and, once lost, the will to live seldom returned."

Frankl, Viktor. Man's Search for Meaning (Kindle Location 159). Beacon Press. Kindle Edition. ​

You have authored 11K comments. Don''t let facts get in the way of attacking others.

You and others could have addressed the topic of the thread, or read Dr Frankl's book instead of vilifying another SDN member. But this is the internet and attacking others is blood sport. It is no surprise why medical students commit suicide precisely because if and when they reach for help, people mock and marginalize them.

but then again, MadJack, who couldn't get accepted to MD school but instead went to DO, says he had a petite mal seizure that cured him of his alleged depression when he was a teenager, so there is that to consider

SDN is like every other internet site: a black hole of crack addicts. this is no place to have a mature conversation about mental health when SDN users with 5000 comments to their name live on here out of raw addiction

I'll stick to Rabbi Kushner any day


View attachment 234574

A Catholic quoting a rabbi about the holocaust.

I bet you have black friends too!

If you don’t see how your post was poorly thought out and could be viewed as horribly offensive, take a timeout.

Industrial genocide killed the strong and the weak alike, but yes, it helped not to be a child or old woman. I’m sure some inspirational Nietzche quotes would have been just as effective from inside the showers as they were for the ****s running them. I’m sure there are lessons to be learned from that book, but you have done a piss poor attempt at expressing them and should not have used that example.

But yes, I’ll take a lesson on what a mature conversation about mental health is from someone who posts a picture of someone snorting the Internet.

I mock osteopathy too, but @Mad Jack is a thoughtful poster who IIRC is actually matched to psychiatry, so frankly I would trust him on this subject more than you. (Interesting that you attack him in your post protesting people on SDN attacking each other.)

 

[Garurumon]

Late to the news due to inactivity from SDN/busyness for a while, but what a tragedy. I'm just one of many on here to chime in how sad I am that this loss hurts so many...not only the student, but those who knew and loved her. How many patients could she have helped and cared for? We'll never know, and that's heartbreaking.

News like this terrifies me, too. I'm struggling with my own anxiety and depression, with finding rhyme and reason to them and how I can handle them, as most of us are. Yet what's frustrating and confounding is that none of us experience and cope with these problems the same way. To me, mental illness is such a stormy cloud that's hard to see and navigate through. But we're all in this together, at least. It only benefits us to share what we know and think, and learn from that, without having to tear each other down.

That being said...another Catholic here, apoplectic, and while I appreciate that you got this conversation about this very important issue/problem started, I'm dismayed that you've strayed from the original topic at hand to butt heads with Mad Jack. From what I've seen, he has only provided thoughtful insights into the matter, while you would not consider his perspective and continue to push a stubborn tone and a defensive attitude. Please calm down and have a change of heart. Pope Francis said that "the root of peace lies in the capacity to listen."

 

[wholeheartedly]

The vast majority of the posts in this thread have led to a pretty good discussion on a topic that really concerns us all. I want to thank everyone for those contributions.

In certain situations, some users go above and beyond in their contributions to a topic, and SDN mod staff offer a token of our appreciation in the form of an amazon gift card and we would like to especially thank both @Mad Jack and @OrthoTraumaMD for their contributions here.

 

[wholeheartedly]

we've had a lot of discussion, but I don't know that we've delved enough into a discussion on what we can do to help ourselves in these situations, how we can effectively help our peers, or what schools, residencies etc can do.

there are lot of student wellness, residency wellness, physician wellness programs etc, but do those things really work?

 

[Mad Jack]

The vast majority of the posts in this thread have led to a pretty good discussion on a topic that really concerns us all. I want to thank everyone for those contributions.

In certain situations, some users go above and beyond in their contributions to a topic, and SDN mod staff offer a token of our appreciation in the form of an amazon gift card and we would like to especially thank both @Mad Jack and @OrthoTraumaMD for their contributions here.

Thank you, it means a lot. I can never tell how I'm coming across in topics like this.

 

[Mad Jack]

So the suicide of Anthony Bourdain is really gnawing at me, but is perhaps the clearest example of a point I was trying to make earlier: no change in circumstances is going to innoculate one from suicide. Bourdain went from fishing paint chips from his carpet in a search for dropped crack to smoke and shooting up on the regular while buried in enormous amounts of debt and living paycheck-to-paycheck in his late 30s and early 40s to being a rock star of the culinary and travel world that was a multimillionaire dating a young, beautiful actress. He had complete creative control of his show, basically had a blank check to do as he pleased, was in the best shape of his life (the guy did two hours of BJJ a day), and was drug free for a decade and a half. He had the life he had always dreamed of, the life many of us would kill for, but still, his depression took his life.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

The vast majority of the posts in this thread have led to a pretty good discussion on a topic that really concerns us all. I want to thank everyone for those contributions.

In certain situations, some users go above and beyond in their contributions to a topic, and SDN mod staff offer a token of our appreciation in the form of an amazon gift card and we would like to especially thank both @Mad Jack and @OrthoTraumaMD for their contributions here.

Thanks! With so many people struggling, anything we can do to help...


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[NeurologyHopeful2018]

Thanks! With so many people struggling, anything we can do to help...


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

With so many people struggling why is there such a stigma in the medical profession, when we physicians should take the lead to bring social acceptance?

@OrthoTraumaMD - when you review residency application and candidate A has a 1 year LoA for depression - what would you do?

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Did you seriously just victim blame people who died in concentration camps?

A Catholic quoting a rabbi about the holocaust.

I bet you have black friends too!

If you don’t see how your post was poorly thought out and could be viewed as horribly offensive, take a timeout.

Industrial genocide killed the strong and the weak alike, but yes, it helped not to be a child or old woman. I’m sure some inspirational Nietzche quotes would have been just as effective from inside the showers as they were for the ****s running them. I’m sure there are lessons to be learned from that book, but you have done a piss poor attempt at expressing them and should not have used that example.

But yes, I’ll take a lesson on what a mature conversation about mental health is from someone who posts a picture of someone snorting the Internet.

I mock osteopathy too, but @Mad Jack is a thoughtful poster who IIRC is actually matched to psychiatry, so frankly I would trust him on this subject more than you. (Interesting that you attack him in your post protesting people on SDN attacking each other.)

Not to stoke the fire or defend someone who writes as combatively as him, but as a Jew who personally knows Holocaust survivors and have relatives who were murdered during it, I don’t find anything he said to be “victim blaming” in those two posts. He quoted a Jewish physician who wrote about how he survived. We don’t have to jump on every person who writes about something sensitive and call them racist or Antisemitic.

 

[wholeheartedly]