NYC nurses strike

[RustedFox]

From a nursing/physician standpoint, the solution is to just do MSEs. Document that you don't have capacity to care for non-emergent cases. Get vitals, quick 1 minute H&P, and if no emergency, then DC. Probably 20-30% of ED patients could qualify for an MSE and DC.

Except that's not what the law sees as a MSE.
SouthernDoc?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[southerndoc]

Except that's not what the law sees as a MSE.
SouthernDoc?

Depends on presentation. You're guilty until proven innocent with CMS. If someone comes in with appendicitis and you miss it, they'll view through their retrospectoscope that you should have ordered a CT and labs as part of your MSE.

 

[EctopicFetus]

That's all well and good, I just don't wanna hear the complaining from all the NYC docs when they get their pay slashed.

Where do you think the money comes from?

Sounds like a downside of being employed by these corporations. Perhaps the hospitals can go to insurers and ask for more. Perhaps they cut their million nonsense mid managers? There are options but you are right the pot of money is finite.

 

[EctopicFetus]

In a way higher nursing salaries (especially for travelers) is ultimately going to lead to more nurses being able to save up enough money to leave the profession or afford to work part-time. It is very short-sighted on the part of hospital admin not to increase staff wages over hiring travelers which would down the line exacerbate staff issues. But maybe it's going to take people dying in ED before being seen for politicians to pass meaningful reform such as tort reform so that BS complaints are not sent to the ED in the first place just to shift the medicolegal responsibility to the ED, among other issues

Those silly complaints pay my mortgage. keep them all coming.

 

[EctopicFetus]

From a nursing/physician standpoint, the solution is to just do MSEs. Document that you don't have capacity to care for non-emergent cases. Get vitals, quick 1 minute H&P, and if no emergency, then DC. Probably 20-30% of ED patients could qualify for an MSE and DC.

Who is gonna take on this risk? Also, when i worked at Cook county the patients knew what to say. my belly hurts, my chest hurts too. You gonna dc them without any workup? The med mal lawyers are salivating.

 

[EctopicFetus]

What I have seen with the nurses I know is they made a ton of dough and took off thanksgiving and all of XMas. They feel no pressure or rush of the big $$ going away.

I have no issues with the nurses making more than the hospitalists. I mean trashmen make more than school teachers etc. If nurses made 500k and docs made 150k i would be a nurse. healthcare has been insanely bastardized in the US. I still love what i do but its not some romantic love story. Maybe for ortho or neurosurgery but its a job. Plenty of jobs suck. Thats EM but i make real good dough but its a job. I never feel like man i wish i was at work when hanging with my family. I feel for the neurosurgeons who barely know their family but make tons of dough. What a waste imo.

 

[kb1900]

What I have seen with the nurses I know is they made a ton of dough and took off thanksgiving and all of XMas. They feel no pressure or rush of the big $$ going away.

I have no issues with the nurses making more than the hospitalists. I mean trashmen make more than school teachers etc. If nurses made 500k and docs made 150k i would be a nurse. healthcare has been insanely bastardized in the US. I still love what i do but its not some romantic love story. Maybe for ortho or neurosurgery but its a job. Plenty of jobs suck. Thats EM but i make real good dough but its a job. I never feel like man i wish i was at work when hanging with my family. I feel for the neurosurgeons who barely know their family but make tons of dough. What a waste imo.

I mean let’s just crunch the numbers..


MSH starting salary prior to the strike for 3x12s for nurses is 114700. They have negotiated a compounding 19.1% raise for a net gain of 51k over 3 years. So...160k for 3x12s in 3 years + OT and benefits.


Also strike has been over for a few days. Still have boarders causing 1:8+ ratios in the ED here.

 

[thegenius]

What I have seen with the nurses I know is they made a ton of dough and took off thanksgiving and all of XMas. They feel no pressure or rush of the big $$ going away.

I have no issues with the nurses making more than the hospitalists. I mean trashmen make more than school teachers etc. If nurses made 500k and docs made 150k i would be a nurse. healthcare has been insanely bastardized in the US. I still love what i do but its not some romantic love story. Maybe for ortho or neurosurgery but its a job. Plenty of jobs suck. Thats EM but i make real good dough but its a job. I never feel like man i wish i was at work when hanging with my family. I feel for the neurosurgeons who barely know their family but make tons of dough. What a waste imo.

I would have a problem if nurses made more than docs.

 

[RustedFox]

I would have a problem if nurses made more than docs.

This is already happening all over.
My wife can make more waiting tables in a high-end restaurant than she can in the biotech world with a masters degree and years of experience.
She really quit her biotech gig and went back to food/beverage. Really.

 

[ScepticSkeksis]

There are certainly easily MSE-able things, like tooth pain, sore throat, cough, runny nose, arm pain x 1 year. I would never suggest MSE on an abdominal or chest pain patient unless it's someone I know extremely well.

 

[RustedFox]

I would have a problem if nurses made more than docs.

Yeah, I would straight quit and be convinced that this world is completely upside-down. Let the nurses do the doctoring, then. GLMF.

 

[EctopicFetus]

I would have a problem if nurses made more than docs.

Do you have a problem that Private equity mid managers make more than docs?

 

[EctopicFetus]

Yeah, I would straight quit and be convinced that this world is completely upside-down. Let the nurses do the doctoring, then. GLMF.

The NPs are already coming for it. They already think they are better than doctors. The world is upside down.

 

[RustedFox]

The NPs are already coming for it. They already think they are better than doctors. The world is upside down.

We have one night RN that just finished her NP school and is looking for jobs.

She asked me some pathophys question about cardiology. I looked confused at her question.

She can't describe blood flow thru the heart. Can't name the chambers in sequence.

I asked her a simple question: "Define mitosis."

Blank stare.

 

[Pudortu]

We have one night RN that just finished her NP school and is looking for jobs.

She asked me some pathophy question about cardiology. I looked confused at her question.

She can't describe blood flow thru the heart. Can't name the chambers in sequence.

I asked her a simple question: "Define mitosis."

Blank stare.

“Brain of a doctor”

 

[wholeheartedly]

We have one night RN that just finished her NP school and is looking for jobs.

She asked me some pathophy question about cardiology. I looked confused at her question.

She can't describe blood flow thru the heart. Can't name the chambers in sequence.

I asked her a simple question: "Define mitosis."

Blank stare.

My clinical lab science program director was doing a lecture on lab stuff for the NP program. All nurses in the class, all advanced NP students. Said something, got blank stares, followed up with “How many of you know what a neutrophil is?”. only person who did was a former clin lab scientist who switched to nursing cuz it paid better…

 

[thegenius]

Do you have a problem that Private equity mid managers make more than docs?

These aren't comparing the same things. It's like asking if a successful plumber makes more than a pediatrician. I do have a big problem with nurses making more than ER docs when that is due to leverage and bargaining tactics. Like having 7000 of them not show up for work for a few days. It's not the fact that they bargained together (I support unions as a construct that exists in capitalism), it's that there are laws preventing doctors from doing the same thing. Nurses have 1/100 of the training we do, 1/100 of the intelligence, and they don't work as hard as docs do en-mass, and many of them are making the same amount as ER doctors. Why would I be like "WAY TO GO NURSES!!!" They didn't get their pay raises on merit or by going to school more and learning more, or obtaining new skills. They got more pay becuase they muscled their way to more pay.

 

[EctopicFetus]

We have one night RN that just finished her NP school and is looking for jobs.

She asked me some pathophys question about cardiology. I looked confused at her question.

She can't describe blood flow thru the heart. Can't name the chambers in sequence.

I asked her a simple question: "Define mitosis."

Blank stare.

Oh man im not shocked. The questions are either so dumb that it is obvious that the teacher has no freakin clue what they are talking about or are so simple my high school kid knows the answer.

one of our NPs who could barely read or put a sentence together asked me a neuro question Real weird constellation of symptoms and i cant remember the details but something related to stroke. I was like I have no idea. Luckily our stroke neurologist who is pretty smart happened to walk by I asked her the answer and the response was this is dumb and makes no sense. Thats NP education in a nutshell.

 

[EctopicFetus]

These aren't comparing the same things. It's like asking if a successful plumber makes more than a pediatrician. I do have a big problem with nurses making more than ER docs when that is due to leverage and bargaining tactics. Like having 7000 of them not show up for work for a few days. It's not the fact that they bargained together (I support unions as a construct that exists in capitalism), it's that there are laws preventing doctors from doing the same thing. Nurses have 1/100 of the training we do, 1/100 of the intelligence, and they don't work as hard as docs do en-mass, and many of them are making the same amount as ER doctors. Why would I be like "WAY TO GO NURSES!!!" They didn't get their pay raises on merit or by going to school more and learning more, or obtaining new skills. They got more pay becuase they muscled their way to more pay.

That is capitalism. YOu say you like unions but when they successfully negotiate you arent ok with it?

Docs are not blocked from unionizing or collectively bargaining. Its that we are a bunch of sissies. NO one wants to give up what we have.. not even for a week or two.

Leverage is the name of the game in capitalism.

Quick anectdote, friend of mine worked for 3M. Without giving the real specifics, they designed a product that made someone else's product more efficient. Amazingly one unit of this product cost under $1 for them to make. They sold it for over $100.. why? Leverage. the buyer couldnt live without it and the price was set based on their need over the cost of making this thing (Leverage).

Yes nurses dont have the intelligence or work ethic of docs especially EM docs. But as a capitalist I appreciate and respect them creating a better long term solution for themselves. EM docs had this opportunity early on in COVID. Remember when all the specialists were saying how awesome we were, society was impressed by us. A bunch of sissy clowns took so much foolish pride in the empty "healthcare hero" narrative instead of leveraging for better long term position. We as a group are way too scared to hold hospitals and our employers feet to the fire.

Dont worry that golden chance wont come again. Soon there will be 9k+ too many EM docs and we will see how the CMGs and hospitals use their leverage to lower our pay.

Good for the nurses to have some balls (oh the irony) to stand up for things while docs tuck their privates like we are gonna be performing at a drag show.

 

[allantois]

We have one night RN that just finished her NP school and is looking for jobs.

She asked me some pathophys question about cardiology. I looked confused at her question.

She can't describe blood flow thru the heart. Can't name the chambers in sequence.

I asked her a simple question: "Define mitosis."

Blank stare.

They learn nursing theory, not medicine silly.

I remember being seen by an NP back when I was in college and asking her for valcyclovir for my cold sore. Her response was “we only prescribe antivirals for HIV”. I’ll say that whoever was supposed to supervise her failed miserably

 

[RustedFox]

They learn nursing theory, not medicine silly.

I remember being seen by an NP back when I was in college and asking her for valcyclovir for my cold sore. Her response was “we only prescribe antivirals for HIV”. I’ll say that whoever was supposed to supervise her failed miserably

My plan:

Attend online RN school.
Attend online NP school.
Forget all nursing theory.
Obtain full practice authority.
Flit between specialties for teh lolz.
Profit?

 

[emergentmd]

Income and knowledge/skill/talent/education even in similar fields does not have to correlate. Its all supply/demand and its how prices are set.

There are a thousands of boxers better than Jake Paul who have put in more time at the craft and would kick his A$$ but very few make the money he makes.

I do not fault anyone for asking for max $$$ for what they can get. If I want max $$$, then I try to figure out how to make myself more valuable.

 

[emergentmd]

My wife can make more waiting tables in a high-end restaurant than she can in the biotech world with a masters degree and years of experience.
She really quit her biotech gig and went back to food/beverage. Really.

I have always wondered how much a waiter makes at high end restaurants. I do not know if they keep all their tips but assume they do. My dinner with wife/friends at a nice steak place costs about $500 so 20% tip is $100. We stay about 90 min. Waiter seems to do about 6 tables at a time. If they can turn the tables around x 3 then they are making $1800 for the night. Yeah, I guess I would quit too.

 

[BoardingDoc]

I have always wondered how much a waiter makes at high end restaurants. I do not know if they keep all their tips but assume they do. My dinner with wife/friends at a nice steak place costs about $500 so 20% tip is $100. We stay about 90 min. Waiter seems to do about 6 tables at a time. If they can turn the tables around x 3 then they are making $1800 for the night. Yeah, I guess I would quit too.

You generally need to tip out the kitchen staff, bar, runners etc so you don't keep all your tips. Usually, you keep around 75-80% depending on the setup. You also need to factor in whether you're actually earning your max potential. That only works when you have the volume to do so (Fri, Sat night). If you're working a Tuesday evening, you probably make a lot less.

 

[EctopicFetus]

I have always wondered how much a waiter makes at high end restaurants. I do not know if they keep all their tips but assume they do. My dinner with wife/friends at a nice steak place costs about $500 so 20% tip is $100. We stay about 90 min. Waiter seems to do about 6 tables at a time. If they can turn the tables around x 3 then they are making $1800 for the night. Yeah, I guess I would quit too.

Discussed this with a waiter at prime steakhouse at bellagio. Maybe 5-7 years ago. Told me best he knew was a guy working 3 days a week at a high end place making about 180k a year. It’s hard work and not everyone is fit for working high end places and can do a great job to get fat tips. If you spend $500 a meal you expect better than chilis level service.
also as mentioned in high end places there is lots of help and a sommelier etc. all need a cut but yes on a per hour basis on a weekend you are probably making $6-700/hr for 5-6 hours.
avg table at a high end restaurant is more than 2. I would say many are more than 4. But with drinks appetizers etc I bet it’s 200 per person. Agree on 90 min window.
issue is it’s crappy hours and like medicine we make good money but we didn’t start there. Same for these waitstaff.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

That is capitalism. YOu say you like unions but when they successfully negotiate you arent ok with it?

Docs are not blocked from unionizing or collectively bargaining. Its that we are a bunch of sissies. NO one wants to give up what we have.. not even for a week or two.

Leverage is the name of the game in capitalism.

Quick anectdote, friend of mine worked for 3M. Without giving the real specifics, they designed a product that made someone else's product more efficient. Amazingly one unit of this product cost under $1 for them to make. They sold it for over $100.. why? Leverage. the buyer couldnt live without it and the price was set based on their need over the cost of making this thing (Leverage).

Yes nurses dont have the intelligence or work ethic of docs especially EM docs. But as a capitalist I appreciate and respect them creating a better long term solution for themselves. EM docs had this opportunity early on in COVID. Remember when all the specialists were saying how awesome we were, society was impressed by us. A bunch of sissy clowns took so much foolish pride in the empty "healthcare hero" narrative instead of leveraging for better long term position. We as a group are way too scared to hold hospitals and our employers feet to the fire.

Dont worry that golden chance wont come again. Soon there will be 9k+ too many EM docs and we will see how the CMGs and hospitals use their leverage to lower our pay.

Good for the nurses to have some balls (oh the irony) to stand up for things while docs tuck their privates like we are gonna be performing at a drag show.

I think some of the frustration stems from this false narrative the nurses have going that they are the only ones who care about the patient yada yada.

With regards to the "sissy clown" nature of EM docs, you're absolutely correct. Too many of my colleagues spend way above their means. They can't tell their kids: "No, I'm not paying 90k/yr for you to attend Fancy Boi Private School to get Useless Degree X." They can't tell their wives "No, we don't need a 7,000 sq ft house in a VHCOL area." They're above sending their children to public primary and secondary schools, even when paying 6% state income tax and high property taxes to fund them.

No chance they will be able to forego even one paycheck. They are functionally poor and a slave to the corporation.

 

[EctopicFetus]

I think some of the frustration stems from this false narrative the nurses have going that they are the only ones who care about the patient yada yada.

With regards to the "sissy clown" nature of EM docs, you're absolutely correct. Too many of my colleagues spend way above their means. They can't tell their kids: "No, I'm not paying 90k/yr for you to attend Fancy Boi Private School to get Useless Degree X." They can't tell their wives "No, we don't need a 7,000 sq ft house in a VHCOL area." They're above sending their children to public primary and secondary schools, even when paying 6% state income tax and high property taxes to fund them.

No chance they will be able to forego even one paycheck. They are functionally poor and a slave to the corporation.

Yep. Docs as a whole are what I believe are called the working rich. We don’t have generational wealth especially those who don’t have true ownership. In ‘em even in sdgs Who might make 1.5-2x your typical em doc have nothing when they retire. We don’t own a building, we don’t own equipment. I have 2 friends who sold their medical businesses. One an OD and the other a dentist. Sold their businesses for millions. Yet held onto the building and the new entity will be paying them Nnn for a decade at a minimum.
thats real wealth creation. ‘Em docs are sissies. Don’t get me wrong I dont love the bs coming from nurses. Most are not great. They constantly seem to worry about losing their license and rarely do what is right for the patient unless it benefits them. I’m not some apologist for them but I’m even less empathetic to the scummy ass hospitals.

 

[thegenius]

That is capitalism. YOu say you like unions but when they successfully negotiate you arent ok with it?

Docs are not blocked from unionizing or collectively bargaining. Its that we are a bunch of sissies. NO one wants to give up what we have.. not even for a week or two.

Totally 100% incorrect. We have talked about this several times on this forum in the past. Most docs are independent contractors or private practice, and they cannot unionize. There are laws preventing this. Please read the past posts around this topic.

Docs are not a bunch of sissies. These days docs would flock to unionize if they could.

I'm not OK with the bastardized health care system we have with third party payers, federal laws preventing collective bargaining, and huge swaths of people who will just leave work and strike while others cannot do that. I have no problem if people want to try to unionize at Amazon or strike at Union Pacific.
Interesting how to the two biggest proponents on this forum of nurses pay exceeding doctor pay and not having a problem with that also happen to be the highest net worth docs too. I'm confident that wouldn't be the case if those two were coming out of residency.

You say no one wants to give up what we have, not even for a week or two, yet ER doctor exodus is peaking now (still doesn't offset the influx though)

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

Totally 100% incorrect. We have talked about this several times on this forum in the past. Most docs are independent contractors or private practice, and they cannot unionize. There are laws preventing this. Please read the past posts around this topic.

Docs are not a bunch of sissies. These days docs would flock to unionize if they could.

I'm not OK with the bastardized health care system we have with third party payers, federal laws preventing collective bargaining, and huge swaths of people who will just leave work and strike while others cannot do that. I have no problem if people want to try to unionize at Amazon or strike at Union Pacific.
Interesting how to the two biggest proponents on this forum of nurses pay exceeding doctor pay and not having a problem with that also happen to be the highest net worth docs too. I'm confident that wouldn't be the case if those two were coming out of residency.

You say no one wants to give up what we have, not even for a week or two, yet ER doctor exodus is peaking now (still doesn't offset the influx though)

1) Is there any data on the demographics of ER doctors who are leaving? I would assume it's those who were peri-retirement anyway. Although who knows with the market downturn.

2) My shop is employed and there are zero murmurings about unionization.

3) There are too many boomer rich docs who say "I got mine. Who cares about you?" (not singling out @EctopicFetus here; but where I work, the boomers make zero squeaks about the issues that disproportionately affect us younger docs)

 

[CajunMedic]

She asked me some pathophys question about cardiology. I looked confused at her question.

She can't describe blood flow thru the heart. Can't name the chambers in sequence.

JFC… Almost 20 years ago, when I was in Paramedic school, we had to label the heart completely, map the blood flow, and describe how the cardiac drugs worked. Seems like that would be basic knowledge for an RN, let alone an NP

 

[always.chillin]

I mean let’s just crunch the numbers..


MSH starting salary prior to the strike for 3x12s for nurses is 114700. They have negotiated a compounding 19.1% raise for a net gain of 51k over 3 years. So...160k for 3x12s in 3 years + OT and benefits.


Also strike has been over for a few days. Still have boarders causing 1:8+ ratios in the ED here.

You can continue to give them pay increases but they'll always be unhappy because nursing in short sucks. They'll be striking again in a few years.

 

[Dred Pirate]

JFC… Almost 20 years ago, when I was in Paramedic school, we had to label the heart completely, map the blood flow, and describe how the cardiac drugs worked. Seems like that would be basic knowledge for an RN, let alone an NP

pretty sure the bolded part we learned in high school biology

 

[RustedFox]

pretty sure the bolded part we learned in high school biology

Exactly my point; more poignantly spoken and illustrated.

They want FPA, but can't pass high school bio

 

[EctopicFetus]

Totally 100% incorrect. We have talked about this several times on this forum in the past. Most docs are independent contractors or private practice, and they cannot unionize. There are laws preventing this. Please read the past posts around this topic.

Docs are not a bunch of sissies. These days docs would flock to unionize if they could.

I'm not OK with the bastardized health care system we have with third party payers, federal laws preventing collective bargaining, and huge swaths of people who will just leave work and strike while others cannot do that. I have no problem if people want to try to unionize at Amazon or strike at Union Pacific.
Interesting how to the two biggest proponents on this forum of nurses pay exceeding doctor pay and not having a problem with that also happen to be the highest net worth docs too. I'm confident that wouldn't be the case if those two were coming out of residency.

You say no one wants to give up what we have, not even for a week or two, yet ER doctor exodus is peaking now (still doesn't offset the influx though)

Disagree. Plenty of docs work for corporations. 70% now. Do u see academic docs unionizing? plenty of envision sites are w2. Let’s not take the large number of ICs and say different. Docs can absolutely unionize. They choose not to. Bunch of sissies. It’s the reality.
i don’t know you and unsure if you know who I am in real life but let me say I’ve spoken to union reps and we totally can unionize.
the ics have options too. they can come together and have real power. Instead we bend over and pay our acep dues like the lemmings most are. I have no problem with anyones pay exceeding mine. I wouldn’t complain about it if it made me mad but rather I would figure out how to get what they have. My net worth (I don’t know how it compares to others on here) was put together by hard work and taking risks. I moved jobs when the first one sucked. I invested, I made sure to find jobs working for myself and not enriching others. Unsure why the nurses making more money than docs bothers you but some low level manager at kkr getting a bonus bigger than your annual salary does not bug you.
i oppose the private equity invasion into healthcare. I oppose pe companies running Ed (and all physician practices). I oppose hospitals employing docs. I could go on but that’s my opinion on things.
im not all that old. Frankly if I was finishing em residency right now I would do a critical care fellowship or possibly a different residency. Em is dead. We are on hospice. It’s only a matter of time. 2026/2027 will be the time we put up the tombstone.
docs who are leaving are the 55+ crowd. Many didn’t train in EM. The younger docs leaving are often IM and cant find jobs. There are a handful of recently graduated em docs who are leaving or doing dpc or some other such thing. Not enough to make a difference. Fwiw I don’t believe em should do dpc any more than I think an I’m doc or FP doc should be working in the Ed.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Totally 100% incorrect. We have talked about this several times on this forum in the past. Most docs are independent contractors or private practice, and they cannot unionize. There are laws preventing this. Please read the past posts around this topic.

Docs are not a bunch of sissies. These days docs would flock to unionize if they could.

I'm not OK with the bastardized health care system we have with third party payers, federal laws preventing collective bargaining, and huge swaths of people who will just leave work and strike while others cannot do that. I have no problem if people want to try to unionize at Amazon or strike at Union Pacific.
Interesting how to the two biggest proponents on this forum of nurses pay exceeding doctor pay and not having a problem with that also happen to be the highest net worth docs too. I'm confident that wouldn't be the case if those two were coming out of residency.

You say no one wants to give up what we have, not even for a week or two, yet ER doctor exodus is peaking now (still doesn't offset the influx though)

Do you have any facts to back up the “er doc exodus is peaking”. I’m calling bs. The ones I know and heard of leaving are 55+. The old data was like 1/3 of all em docs (all training) were 55+. Not shocking to see them leave. Plenty of new grads who are clueless as to the abuse that lays in front of them to take their place. 3-4 more graduating classes and the job market will fully collapse.

 

[Siggy]

Totally 100% incorrect. We have talked about this several times on this forum in the past. Most docs are independent contractors or private practice, and they cannot unionize. There are laws preventing this. Please read the past posts around this topic.

That’s called price fixing.

Nurses at hospital system A can’t strike to help nurses at hospital system B as well.

Just like Chevron, Texaco, and Shell can’t form a group and decide collectively what gas prices should be.


The fact that a lot of physicians aren’t employees is something that actually matters. Also the fact that we don’t really support our professional organizations for lobbying is also important.

 

[WilcoWorld]

Em is dead. We are on hospice. It’s only a matter of time. 2026/2027 will be the time we put up the tombstone.

What's this "death" going to be?

 

[bravotwozero]

What's this "death" going to be?

Anyone’s guess at this point, but I would imagine a job market with no openings except extremely rural dumpster fires where you’d make $150/hr if lucky.

 

[ScepticSkeksis]

Anyone’s guess at this point, but I would imagine a job market with no openings except extremely rural dumpster fires where you’d make $150/hr if lucky.

It will likely be heavily based on your metrics which will follow you. If you have great national "quality" metrics, then you can get hired at better places. If your metrics suck, you are out of a job. Administrators want to hire docs that will help them get their metric bonuses.

 

[Apollyon]

So coda to my burnout from my rural job: heard from a buddy from work I haven't talked to in almost 3 years. I went to the hospital website, to see if I was still on it (meatheads had me there years later, still, because I think they liked my residency place). Well, no EM docs. Buddy says, they got rid of all the docs (don't know if it was attrition or what), and replaced them with NPs, with telehealth backup. That's what you get. God help those pts.

 

[RustedFox]

So coda to my burnout from my rural job: heard from a buddy from work I haven't talked to in almost 3 years. I went to the hospital website, to see if I was still on it (meatheads had me there years later, still, because I think they liked my residency place). Well, no EM docs. Buddy says, they got rid of all the docs (don't know if it was attrition or what), and replaced them with NPs, with telehealth backup. That's what you get. God help those pts.

I heard about these places (wink) too from my current director who used to work in the same neck of the woods.

Pathetic.

 

[EctopicFetus]

What's this "death" going to be?

No jobs. Rapidly falling pay for ‘em docs. U think hca controlling the envision JV is gonna be good for docs?

 

[EctopicFetus]

That’s called price fixing.

Nurses at hospital system A can’t strike to help nurses at hospital system B as well.

Just like Chevron, Texaco, and Shell can’t form a group and decide collectively what gas prices should be.


The fact that a lot of physicians aren’t employees is something that actually matters. Also the fact that we don’t really support our professional organizations for lobbying is also important.

Our professional orgs are in bed with the exact people we want to unionize against. ACEP specifically. AAEM for whatever er reason hasn’t jumped into this arena of unionization.

 

[FutureInternist]

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

Anyone’s guess at this point, but I would imagine a job market with no openings except extremely rural dumpster fires where you’d make $150/hr if lucky.

Meh maybe for CMGs, but I just got a raise at my hospital employed place, plus we hired a ton more attendings.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Meh maybe for CMGs, but I just got a raise at my hospital employed place, plus we hired a ton more attendings.

Serious Q. Were they under market before? I think the employed docs will be the last to fall but once they feel the financial pinch and go looking for MGMA data they will follow the pack. I have looked at a ton of hospital employed contracts. Some make sense and some are like the Va and treat ED docs like primary care docs with the terms of the contract.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

Serious Q. Were they under market before? I think the employed docs will be the last to fall but once they feel the financial pinch and go looking for MGMA data they will follow the pack. I have looked at a ton of hospital employed contracts. Some make sense and some are like the Va and treat ED docs like primary care docs with the terms of the contract.

Not under market for the area.

They definitely follow MGMA data, but we have pushed hard for more money.

I make over $200/hr to see 1.5 pph and work no overnights.

 

[RustedFox]

Not under market for the area.

They definitely follow MGMA data, but we have pushed hard for more money.

I make over $200/hr to see 1.5 pph and work no overnights.

Sign me up, bro.

 

[emperor tamarin]

What is mgma data?

 

[WilcoWorld]

So coda to my burnout from my rural job: heard from a buddy from work I haven't talked to in almost 3 years. I went to the hospital website, to see if I was still on it (meatheads had me there years later, still, because I think they liked my residency place). Well, no EM docs. Buddy says, they got rid of all the docs (don't know if it was attrition or what), and replaced them with NPs, with telehealth backup. That's what you get. God help those pts.

Now that sounds like a "death" of EM as a field.