Nursing School Vs Med School, no comparison.

[Mad Jack]

CRNa 1600 avg, Anesthesiologist 12,000-16,000 hrs avg. Still a wide gap, but comparable relative to NP to physicians training hrs. Even then, nurse anesthesia providers do not have the same level of training.

I didn't even feel concordance as a caregiver until about three years of clinical practice, and would only now consider myself pretty good at what I do, after about 10k hours of practice. There are plenty of studies that bear this out- 10k hours is what you're looking at if you want to master a discipline. NPs aren't even scratching that. It's like having a physics sophomore jumping into graduate research. They just aren't at the level they need to be at yet, not even close.

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[Critical Mass REACHED]

I didn't even feel concordance as a caregiver until about three years of clinical practice, and would only now consider myself pretty good at what I do, after about 10k hours of practice. There are plenty of studies that bear this out- 10k hours is what you're looking at if you want to master a discipline. NPs aren't even scratching that. It's like having a physics sophomore jumping into graduate research. They just aren't at the level they need to be at yet, not even close.

Scary thought, especially when you realize there is NO ONE to bail you out. It's on you, and only you.

 

[Mad Jack]

Yes, I mean...my own private conversations? How does one delete those?

What mistakes could you have possibly made that are so bad they need to disappear from your own conversation box that only you and your conversation partner can see? I'm just surprised that a person can fail so hard at talking privately that the conversation needs to not just be forgotten about, but annihilated completely from the record of the interwebs.

So far as I know, even donors cannot delete their own conversations, because they are private, and thus deleting them isn't a priority. Mods might be able to I guess.

if you're just looking to clean up your conversation list though, you can set filters.

Maybe somebody else knows something more.

 

[Critical Mass REACHED]

What mistakes could you have possibly made that are so bad they need to disappear from your own conversation box that only you and your conversation partner can see? I'm just surprised that a person can fail so hard at talking privately that the conversation needs to not just be forgotten about, but annihilated completely from the record of the interwebs.

So far as I know, even donors cannot delete their own conversations, because they are private, and thus deleting them isn't a priority. Mods might be able to I guess.

if you're just looking to clean up your conversation list though, you can set filters.

Maybe somebody else knows something more.

Just change your screen name to Carlos Danger!

 

[DermViser]

And the day physicists come into the hospital demanding to be called doctor and attempt to provide patient care autonomously we will discuss them.

You clearly don't understand the obvious theme of this thread despite your self proclaimed keen attention to detail. Maybe if you read the thread more thoroughly you would understand.

His lack of attention to detail is most likely bc his approach is more "holistic".

 

[evilbooyaa]

What mistakes could you have possibly made that are so bad they need to disappear from your own conversation box that only you and your conversation partner can see? I'm just surprised that a person can fail so hard at talking privately that the conversation needs to not just be forgotten about, but annihilated completely from the record of the interwebs.

So far as I know, even donors cannot delete their own conversations, because they are private, and thus deleting them isn't a priority. Mods might be able to I guess.

if you're just looking to clean up your conversation list though, you can set filters.

Maybe somebody else knows something more.

Already told her how to. It's easy. Not sure why she wanted to, but whatever. Not my business.

 

[Mad Jack]

Already told her how to. It's easy. Not sure why she wanted to, but whatever. Not my business.

Not mine either. I've just never seen a member that was so delete and edit happy as she, and was kind of amused it stretched even into her private conversations. Like, what the hell did you say lol... Anyway, back to the topic at hand.

 

[Critical Mass REACHED]

In my area you can know all there is to know about the brain, right down to microscopic level, which isn't a whole lot. So you hypothesize that certain behaviors originate in one area of the brain. Then you take a drug which hypothetically works on that part of the brain. Then, you start finding out one drug works great for one patient, and kills another. That's where you better turn that microscope around. And how do you know what you are studying is correct? Dr. John Ioannidis – world’s foremost expert on credibility of medical research says:

•90% of published medical information that we rely on is false
•80% of non-randomized (most common) studies turn out to be wrong
•25% of gold-standard randomized trials are wrong
•10% of platinum-standard trials are wrong

The British Medical Journal, and I believe the editor of NEJM, have recently basically said that most published medical research is hardly worth the toilet paper it's written on.

That first comment you made scares the **** out of me. "In my area you can know all there is to know about the brain, right down to microscopic level, which isn't a whole lot."

I'm not neurologist, or a neurosurgeon, but the brain is highly complex organ with many things at the microscopic level that science is still trying to solve. To say there isn't a whole lot is insulting, and just shows how much fundamental knowledge you are clearly lacking.

 

[Kale01]

Solid post, "non-student".

What's a "harder specialty", you talkin Urology?

Something like that, anesthesiology, etc. Some somewhat less competitive ones like gen surgery.

I mean honestly, what do family practitioners, for example, do that nurses can't?

Also, no offense, but it's not like you guys (well most of you anyway) went to MIT or Caltech and studied physics. Get over yourself.

 

[touchpause13]

Omg..... get out of here, troll.

 

[Critical Mass REACHED]

Something like that, anesthesiology, etc. Some somewhat less competitive ones like gen surgery.

I mean honestly, what do family practitioners, for example, do that nurses can't?

Also, no offense, but it's not like you guys (well most of you anyway) went to MIT or Caltech and studied physics. Get over yourself.

Even the lowest ranked US med school is tougher to get into than any NP school. Anyone can go become an NP and get accepted. As long as you can fork up the 15-20K to Universities like University of Phoenix online, they'll make you into a "doctor NP."

 

[bulldogmed]

Even the lowest ranked US med school is tougher to get into than any NP school. Anyone can go become an NP and get accepted. As long as you can fork up the 15-20K to Universities like University of Phoenix online, they'll make you into a "doctor NP."

:troll:

 

[touchpause13]

I believe what they call this is troll on troll combat. Observe, as the alpha male asserts his dominance over the smaller, weaker troll.

 

[bulldogmed]

I believe what they call this is troll on troll combat. Observe, as the alpha male asserts his dominance over the smaller, weaker troll.

 

[Critical Mass REACHED]

Something like that, anesthesiology, etc. Some somewhat less competitive ones like gen surgery.

I mean honestly, what do family practitioners, for example, do that nurses can't?

Also, no offense, but it's not like you guys (well most of you anyway) went to MIT or Caltech and studied physics. Get over yourself.

Oh Kale you must be one of those that hold onto the dream of becoming a physician. No, you can't use your SATS scores to replace an MCAT Oops look what I found in the other pic, even you agreed that getting into any medical school "even lower tier" doesn't matter.

If you call 1-800-university-of-pheonix, you to can be called doctor. Just not the type of doctor you are striving to be.

 

[Brain Bucket]

I think we should get back to talking about how nursing school is so much harder than medical school.

 

[Patassa]

Something like that, anesthesiology, etc. Some somewhat less competitive ones like gen surgery.

I mean honestly, what do family practitioners, for example, do that nurses can't?

Also, no offense, but it's not like you guys (well most of you anyway) went to MIT or Caltech and studied physics. Get over yourself.

I know that I shouldn't feed the troll....but,

Dang, my urology joke wasn't as obvious as I wanted it to be.

You seem to be confusing how competitive a specialty is to get into with how difficult the practice of that specialty is. By your calculations, Dermatology > neurosurg ?

It makes me sad to hear someone denigrate PCPs. There is nothing easy about being a great PCP. The point that's been hashed out over and over about the level of education and experience that it takes to become an MD seems to be lost on you, still.

So, only people with a BS in Physics from two universities in the country have valid points about the differences in education and training between MD's and nurses? That makes perfect sense.

 

[Patassa]

In my area you can know all there is to know about the brain, right down to microscopic level, which isn't a whole lot.

Pedal to the metal, right off the cliff.

Are you a Donald Rumsfeld fan?

There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns.

This reminds me of the time that a technician at the tire store told me that hydroplaning was just simple physics and chemistry. The incredibly complex fluid mechanics and corresponding tread design modeling were his unknown unknowns.

 

[Zenman1]

Cool story bro. A lot of my classmates and former classmates had jobs before medicine. In my class, there had to be about 50% who were the traditional straight out of college type. Most of them had prior jobs (nursing, MPH, PhD, pharmacist, engineers, teachers, military medics, paramedics) just to name a few. So your experience is not special in the realm of physicians. So, what's your point? That your experience as a nurse is equal to the rigors of medical school? I'm not discrediting your value in healthcare. Your practice of nursing is highly valued, but it's no substitute for a physician.

The point is that I had a choice of going to med school or enjoying life. You see the path I took and it was just the right one for me. Oh, I forgot to throw in studying Chinese medicine, Japanese Zen Shiatsu, Taiji, Medical Qigong (currently teach this to the military for Soldiers in chronic pain), and earning 2 black belts. Basically, I had no time for the extreme, Navy Seal type of rigors you had to go through in medical school and residency.

I will disagree that my total "learning," in and out of nursing, can be a substitute for a physician. You see Western medicine can only offer so much and I get a tingle everytime I see a patient that is a "medical failure." You would't believe the type of stuff me, and even many physicians I know that have had their scientific worldview shattered to the core, can do. But that's another story. However, if you want to bet money, we'll see what you can do when you have no electricity to run your labs and other diagnostic machines.

Did I tell you my medical director in NM loved that I had independent practice rights? All the other docs were mad at her cause they were always having to co-sign PA notes while she didn't. She would leave me in charge of the inpatient unit for 3-4 days while she was out. I'm guessing that might be a substitute for a physician, maybe not. Just letting you know the facts; you decide.

 

[Zenman1]

Nice, you found someone who devalues research for the purpose of your argument. For every one of your Dr. Johns, there are 100's who are probably on the other side of that argument.

That's crazy to think research is BS. Last time I checked, research "evidence based practice medicine", is highly valued. Otherwise everyone who farted funny would get a colonoscopy, and everyone who had a zit, would have it biopsied.

I don't devalue research, I just take it with a grain of salt, based on what your peers have said. According to the British Medical Journal N=2,500 medical treatments; 13% were found to be beneficial; 23% likely to be beneficial; 8% were as likely to be harmful as beneficial; 6% were unlikely tobe beneficial; 4% likely to be harmful or ineffective. That left 46% as unknown in their effectiveness. so that means a person has a 36% chance of receiving treatment that has been scientifically demonstrated to be beneficial or likely to be beneficial. A Cochrane report showed 38% of treaments were positive and 62% were negative or showed no evidence of effect. There's more but you get my drift.

I don't know if you were asleep in your nursing history classes or not but you might find this interesting: Nightingale visited almost every hospital in Europe, analyzed them and then wrote up her findings in “Notes on Hospitals,” which became the guide to hospital architecture for the next century. One of her quotes: “It may seem a strange principle to enunciate as the very first requirement in a hospital that it should do the sick no harm. It is quite necessary, nevertheless, to lay down such a principle.” She came up with the polar pie chart, a visual way of understanding data we still use. For 50 years she was behind most of the health-related legislation in England. Nightingale understood the different goals of doctor, nurse, lawyer and economist. From her study of hospitals she concluded that patients get the best care when no single power is ascendant, rather when there is the “perpetual rub” between doctor, nurse and administrator.”

 

[Critical Mass REACHED]

The point is that I had a choice of going to med school or enjoying life. You see the path I took and it was just the right one for me. Oh, I forgot to throw in studying Chinese medicine, Japanese Zen Shiatsu, Taiji, Medical Qigong (currently teach this to the military for Soldiers in chronic pain), and earning 2 black belts. Basically, I had no time for the extreme, Navy Seal type of rigors you had to go through in medical school and residency.

I will disagree that my total "learning," in and out of nursing, can be a substitute for a physician. You see Western medicine can only offer so much and I get a tingle everytime I see a patient that is a "medical failure." You would't believe the type of stuff me, and even many physicians I know that have had their scientific worldview shattered to the core, can do. But that's another story. However, if you want to bet money, we'll see what you can do when you have no electricity to run your labs and other diagnostic machines.

Did I tell you my medical director in NM loved that I had independent practice rights? All the other docs were mad at her cause they were always having to co-sign PA notes while she didn't. She would leave me in charge of the inpatient unit for 3-4 days while she was out. I'm guessing that might be a substitute for a physician, maybe not. Just letting you know the facts; you decide.

Once again, I have no idea where you are going with your statement. Have you ever heard of "Tangential speech." This is what you sound like:

" I once killed a liger with my bare hands, I once saved a man, who had his head decapitated, I am "The Most Interesting Man in the World." Cool story bro.

 

[Critical Mass REACHED]

I don't devalue research, I just take it with a grain of salt, based on what your peers have said. According to the British Medical Journal N=2,500 medical treatments; 13% were found to be beneficial; 23% likely to be beneficial; 8% were as likely to be harmful as beneficial; 6% were unlikely tobe beneficial; 4% likely to be harmful or ineffective. That left 46% as unknown in their effectiveness. so that means a person has a 36% chance of receiving treatment that has been scientifically demonstrated to be beneficial or likely to be beneficial. A Cochrane report showed 38% of treaments were positive and 62% were negative or showed no evidence of effect. There's more but you get my drift.

I don't know if you were asleep in your nursing history classes or not but you might find this interesting: Nightingale visited almost every hospital in Europe, analyzed them and then wrote up her findings in “Notes on Hospitals,” which became the guide to hospital architecture for the next century. One of her quotes: “It may seem a strange principle to enunciate as the very first requirement in a hospital that it should do the sick no harm. It is quite necessary, nevertheless, to lay down such a principle.” She came up with the polar pie chart, a visual way of understanding data we still use. For 50 years she was behind most of the health-related legislation in England. Nightingale understood the different goals of doctor, nurse, lawyer and economist. From her study of hospitals she concluded that patients get the best care when no single power is ascendant, rather when there is the “perpetual rub” between doctor, nurse and administrator.”

Take your own advice, and take that research article you keep quoting with a "grain of salt." And quoting research published in the dark ages from "Florence Nightangale" is entertaining. Did you know research during the dark ages showed us that sun revolved around the earth? Let's hold on to that theory now, since research before Christ showed that we are the center of the universe.

You're exactly the type of mid-levels I am referring to when I started this thread.

People behold the militant mid level who cries equivalency.

 

[Zenman1]

I love those studies! If it weren't for the fact that NP's can pawn of complex patients to the Physicians. To bad a real study that looked at mortality rates when comparing all patients across all spectrums of complexity would be "unethical." NP's do a great job a referring people they can't handle to a physicians, and there's nothing wrong with that. That's there job, screen patients and refer them as necessary, otherwise manage them. But, that doesn't equal "equivalency." Second, they order a lot of expensive test, and refer patients to expensive specialist, when a GP would be content managing them at a lower cost, without the battery of unnecessary test to diagnosis them. Doesn't save anyone money. They practice in New Mexico out of pure desperation by the state who can't recruit or find primary care physicians. But, I'm glad to know there are still physicians they can refer complex patients to.

What studies? I didn't mention any studies. The only people I refer out are those needing specialist care. Recently I diagnosed Graves Disease in a Soldier with severe PTSD, slapped him in a specialty hospital for PTSD. He then had an MI while there with stent placement. Not a single consult of mine has been inappropriate. I usually refer to primary care but have done some to urology, a lot to sleep medicine, some to TBI clinic etc.. When I was doing CL consults in NM there were 2-3 hospitalists who wanted my med director to give a second opinion on my consults. Not one was wrong. After she chewed their butts out they were more friendly with me. I really liked her. Speaking of intelligence, she was a child prodigy and started medical school in India at the age of 16. I've never seen anyone do an initial intake, write only a couple of sentences, and then dictate a novel with dates for her evaluation. Wished I had that skill! BTW, I work with a team that collaborates if needed. No one oversees me any more than my boss oversees everyone else for management purposes. I don't remember asking a single practice management question, other than about military procedure, since I've been here. some of the docs do ask me about alternative approaches, one has asked if I've ever seen a certain side effects with Celexa and one who was an RN before returning to med school was asking me the other day about TD/Tourette's in a patient on an antipsychotic. He hadn't seen many since residency. But to relieve your concerns I really know how to look things up, I usually read 3-4 books at a time, and I stay on top of things. Let me also thank you for not coming up with that lame, "you don't know what you don't know" comment.

Later, I've got to go to Popeye's.

 

[Critical Mass REACHED]

What studies? I didn't mention any studies. The only people I refer out are those needing specialist care. Recently I diagnosed Graves Disease in a Soldier with severe PTSD, slapped him in a specialty hospital for PTSD. He then had an MI while there with stent placement. Not a single consult of mine has been inappropriate. I usually refer to primary care but have done some to urology, a lot to sleep medicine, some to TBI clinic etc.. When I was doing CL consults in NM there were 2-3 hospitalists who wanted my med director to give a second opinion on my consults. Not one was wrong. After she chewed their butts out they were more friendly with me. I really liked her. Speaking of intelligence, she was a child prodigy and started medical school in India at the age of 16. I've never seen anyone do an initial intake, write only a couple of sentences, and then dictate a novel with dates for her evaluation. Wished I had that skill! BTW, I work with a team that collaborates if needed. No one oversees me any more than my boss oversees everyone else for management purposes. I don't remember asking a single practice management question, other than about military procedure, since I've been here. some of the docs do ask me about alternative approaches, one has asked if I've ever seen a certain side effects with Celexa and one who was an RN before returning to med school was asking me the other day about TD/Tourette's in a patient on an antipsychotic. He hadn't seen many since residency. But to relieve your concerns I really know how to look things up, I usually read 3-4 books at a time, and I stay on top of things. Let me also thank you for not coming up with that lame, "you don't know what you don't know" comment.

Later, I've got to go to Popeye's.

I'm not even going to bother reading through this, but here is some advice, call your Psychiatrist "an MD" to start you on some anti psychotics. Preferably an atypical antipsychotic, then again, you could be in a severely acute manic state and thus need an IM dose of haldol stat.

 

[AnnoyedByFreud]

I'm not even going to bother reading through this, but here is some advice, call your Psychiatrist "an MD" to start you on some anti psychotics. Preferably an atypical antipsychotic, then again, you could be in a severely acute manic state and thus need an IM dose of haldol stat.

weak.

 

[Patassa]

Let me also thank you for not coming up with that lame, "you don't know what you don't know" comment.

This pretty much says it all. Regardless of the comment's lame/cool factor, there's no escaping the reality of it.

 

[Critical Mass REACHED]

This pretty much says it all. Regardless of the comment's lame/cool factor, there's no escaping the reality of it.

He's misinformed, I did say way back in this thread "you don't know, what you don't know." You stand correct Patassa.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

What studies? I didn't mention any studies. The only people I refer out are those needing specialist care. Recently I diagnosed Graves Disease in a Soldier with severe PTSD, slapped him in a specialty hospital for PTSD. He then had an MI while there with stent placement. Not a single consult of mine has been inappropriate. I usually refer to primary care but have done some to urology, a lot to sleep medicine, some to TBI clinic etc.. When I was doing CL consults in NM there were 2-3 hospitalists who wanted my med director to give a second opinion on my consults. Not one was wrong. After she chewed their butts out they were more friendly with me. I really liked her. Speaking of intelligence, she was a child prodigy and started medical school in India at the age of 16. I've never seen anyone do an initial intake, write only a couple of sentences, and then dictate a novel with dates for her evaluation. Wished I had that skill! BTW, I work with a team that collaborates if needed. No one oversees me any more than my boss oversees everyone else for management purposes. I don't remember asking a single practice management question, other than about military procedure, since I've been here. some of the docs do ask me about alternative approaches, one has asked if I've ever seen a certain side effects with Celexa and one who was an RN before returning to med school was asking me the other day about TD/Tourette's in a patient on an antipsychotic. He hadn't seen many since residency. But to relieve your concerns I really know how to look things up, I usually read 3-4 books at a time, and I stay on top of things. Let me also thank you for not coming up with that lame, "you don't know what you don't know" comment.

Later, I've got to go to Popeye's.

Can you say "stream of consciousness" anyone?

 

[Zenman1]

And the day physicists come into the hospital demanding to be called doctor and attempt to provide patient care autonomously we will discuss them.

You clearly don't understand the obvious theme of this thread despite your self proclaimed keen attention to detail. Maybe if you read the thread more thoroughly you would understand.

I understood the theme from the beginning. You wanted a challenger and you got one. If you can't handle that quit with your type of responses.

 

[fancymylotus]

were still doing this?

 

[Zenman1]

You become a real medical doctor by completing medical training and passing medical board exams.
You become a nurse by completing nursing training and passing nursing board exams.

Well that is true.

 

[Zenman1]

were still doing this?

Let me fix that for you. "We're still doing this?" Sorry, couldn't help it.

 

[Zenman1]

I mean the actual education. So many of the courses are fluff, there are many things you only scratch the surface of, and the number of advanced clinical hours you need before being unleashed on the public are absurdly low. MDs and DOs need nearly 16,000 total hours of clinical training at the advanced level, enough to achieve a level of mastery. NP programs generally (with the exception of CRNA training) require less than one thousand hours of clinical training at the advanced level. That's less than a half year's worth of full time work, and many nurses expect to operate independently at a level equal to that of a physician. You don't have enough time to even get adjusted to your new level of responsibility in that number of hours, let alone master it.

NP education is fine for functioning as a mid-level provider with backup from a physician, but is not an adequate level of training for independent practice.

I'm all for NPs having more education and clinical hours. There are some physicians who also think medical education needs to be revamped.

 

[Zenman1]

I didn't even feel concordance as a caregiver until about three years of clinical practice, and would only now consider myself pretty good at what I do, after about 10k hours of practice. There are plenty of studies that bear this out- 10k hours is what you're looking at if you want to master a discipline. NPs aren't even scratching that. It's like having a physics sophomore jumping into graduate research. They just aren't at the level they need to be at yet, not even close.

Don't forget to consider the studies may not be worth much. Anytime humans are involved it's a toss-up as to whether it's worth reading.

 

[Mad Jack]

Don't forget to consider the studies may not be worth much. Anytime humans are involved it's a toss-up as to whether it's worth reading.

Having worked a couple jobs for 5 year stretches, I've got to say that the 10k number feels right. You don't feel comfortable for a year or two in a career of any complexity, and you don't really achieve a high level of competence in a difficult field until damn year five years in. Certainly not one year.

I am not fine with nurses practicing independently under the current model. But if they had formal residencies/fellowships that bumped up the practice hours significantly, I believe they would be less dangerous, and possibly even adequately prepared if trained properly.

 

[touchpause13]

If NPs want to practice independently then take steps I, II, and III. And do at least 10,000 hours of clinical training

 

[Critical Mass REACHED]

I'm fine with NPs that decide to practice independently as soon as they 1: get accepted to medical school 2: complete medical school 3: compete all sets of boards including step 1,2,3 along with board certification in desired field 4: completing a residency in your desired field.

Is that to much to ask? People are always trying to finagle their way out of hard work. Take it from someone who actually went through both medical and nursing school and can speak to both perspectives.

 

[Anastomoses]

Let me fix that for you. "We're still doing this?" Sorry, couldn't help it.

Relax, she's a dentist.

fancypants

 

[fancymylotus]

Relax, she's a dentist.

fancypants

Anasto!!!


<3

 

[touchpause13]

Fancy how did you even get over here? Haha

 

[fancymylotus]

Fancy how did you even get over here? Haha

Mostly boredom...

Coz you know, us dentists don't actually do any work, we just overcharge our patients. Hahaha

 

[touchpause13]

Of course how could I forget

 

[fancymylotus]

Of course how could I forget

Today I had my assistants do a bunch of work for me

Did some consults

Made a green juice

Took a nap

Now getting a mani

Then off to a drug-rep dinner in the city


win!

 

[Anastomoses]

Mostly boredom...

Coz you know, us dentists don't actually do any work, we just overcharge our patients. Hahaha

time for sushi happy hour! nom nom nom.

 

[touchpause13]

That green crap looks so gross girl

 

[fancymylotus]

time for sushi happy hour! nom nom nom.

omg take me w you

 

[fancymylotus]

That green crap looks so gross girl

it is but...if you drink it really fast it's not so bad

+ some apples and lemon added to it helps.

and a ton of turmeric

 

[Critical Mass REACHED]

Mostly boredom...

Coz you know, us dentists don't actually do any work, we just overcharge our patients. Hahaha

Just a matter of time before mid levels start to encroach on dentistry. My friend is a dentist, and god his job is amazing, not to mention the hours!

 

[Zenman1]

Having worked a couple jobs for 5 year stretches, I've got to say that the 10k number feels right. You don't feel comfortable for a year or two in a career of any complexity, and you don't really achieve a high level of competence in a difficult field until damn year five years in. Certainly not one year.

I am not fine with nurses practicing independently under the current model. But if they had formal residencies/fellowships that bumped up the practice hours significantly, I believe they would be less dangerous, and possibly even adequately prepared if trained properly.

I just heard couple days ago that Kentucky just granted independent rights to NPs. I think Florida is about to and maybe NY. I think they are going to require a certain number of hours of practice though.

 

[Zenman1]

That first comment you made scares the **** out of me. "In my area you can know all there is to know about the brain, right down to microscopic level, which isn't a whole lot."

I'm not neurologist, or a neurosurgeon, but the brain is highly complex organ with many things at the microscopic level that science is still trying to solve. To say there isn't a whole lot is insulting, and just shows how much fundamental knowledge you are clearly lacking.

Oh, did I forget to mention I was paraphrasing Stephen Stahl, M.D… you know the well known psychopharmacologist? His "Stahl's Essential Psychopharmacology: Neuroscientific Basis and Practical applications" was one of my textbooks. I guess you didn't have that one. Open it up and you'll see a lot of (I'll provide snippets), "To know where in the brain psychiatric symptoms are hypothetically mediated…;""The concept of disease progression in major depression is controversial, unproven, and provocative…;" For many years, the action of bupropion has been unclear, and it still remains somewhat controversial." Makes it very clear what's happening when I treat depression, with bupropion, for example, doesn't it?