Nursing School Vs Med School, no comparison.

[747541]

I know this post is dead, but I just want to point out that OP got a degree in nursing and then got a medical degree. Yeah, med school is definitely more difficult, it's supposed to be, but that doesn't mean that nurses should "just work within [their] scope as a nurse as op said. I am going to get my nursing undergrad degree, and work as a nurse while I study so I am a little less in debt than I would be with a less practical degree.

I applaud all doctors for putting in that work, but do not assume that a nurse is trying to rise above her station just because she wants to further her career. I want to deliver babies. I could get a masters in midwifery (which is still respectable) but what fun is that? I want to be an expert at obstetric treatment! I want to be able to do c-sections when natural birth isn't an option! Nurses are super amazing, strong, and supportive. Yes, there is nothing wrong with being a nurse but some people don't want to be a nurse all their life.

Sorry again for trying to revive a dead thread, I just wanted to put my two cents in.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[747541]

I know this post is dead, but I just want to point out that OP got a degree in nursing and then got a medical degree. Yeah, med school is definitely more difficult, it's supposed to be, but that doesn't mean that nurses should "just work within [their] scope as a nurse as op said. I am going to get my nursing undergrad degree, and work as a nurse while I study so I am a little less in debt than I would be with a less practical degree.

I applaud all doctors for putting in that work, but do not assume that a nurse is trying to rise above her station just because she wants to further her career. I want to deliver babies. I could get a masters in midwifery (which is still respectable) but what fun is that? I want to be an expert at obstetric treatment! I want to be able to do c-sections when natural birth isn't an option! Nurses are super amazing, strong, and supportive. Yes, there is nothing wrong with being a nurse but some people don't want to be a nurse all their life.

Sorry again for trying to revive a dead thread, I just wanted to put my two cents in.

 

[sliceofbread136]

I know this post is dead, but I just want to point out that OP got a degree in nursing and then got a medical degree. Yeah, med school is definitely more difficult, it's supposed to be, but that doesn't mean that nurses should "just work within [their] scope as a nurse as op said. I am going to get my nursing undergrad degree, and work as a nurse while I study so I am a little less in debt than I would be with a less practical degree.

I applaud all doctors for putting in that work, but do not assume that a nurse is trying to rise above her station just because she wants to further her career. I want to deliver babies. I could get a masters in midwifery (which is still respectable) but what fun is that? I want to be an expert at obstetric treatment! I want to be able to do c-sections when natural birth isn't an option! Nurses are super amazing, strong, and supportive. Yes, there is nothing wrong with being a nurse but some people don't want to be a nurse all their life.

Sorry again for trying to revive a dead thread, I just wanted to put my two cents in.

I agree! I want to do orthopedic surgery which is why I'm going into internal medicine. It makes a lot of sense!!!

 

[el_duderino]

I know this post is dead, but I just want to point out that OP got a degree in nursing and then got a medical degree. Yeah, med school is definitely more difficult, it's supposed to be, but that doesn't mean that nurses should "just work within [their] scope as a nurse as op said. I am going to get my nursing undergrad degree, and work as a nurse while I study so I am a little less in debt than I would be with a less practical degree.

I applaud all doctors for putting in that work, but do not assume that a nurse is trying to rise above her station just because she wants to further her career. I want to deliver babies. I could get a masters in midwifery (which is still respectable) but what fun is that? I want to be an expert at obstetric treatment! I want to be able to do c-sections when natural birth isn't an option! Nurses are super amazing, strong, and supportive. Yes, there is nothing wrong with being a nurse but some people don't want to be a nurse all their life.

Sorry again for trying to revive a dead thread, I just wanted to put my two cents in.

Wait, you plan on working as a nurse while you study? Study for what? You want to go to med school?

 

[giantswing]

I know this post is dead, but I just want to point out that OP got a degree in nursing and then got a medical degree. Yeah, med school is definitely more difficult, it's supposed to be, but that doesn't mean that nurses should "just work within [their] scope as a nurse as op said. I am going to get my nursing undergrad degree, and work as a nurse while I study so I am a little less in debt than I would be with a less practical degree.

I applaud all doctors for putting in that work, but do not assume that a nurse is trying to rise above her station just because she wants to further her career. I want to deliver babies. I could get a masters in midwifery (which is still respectable) but what fun is that? I want to be an expert at obstetric treatment! I want to be able to do c-sections when natural birth isn't an option! Nurses are super amazing, strong, and supportive. Yes, there is nothing wrong with being a nurse but some people don't want to be a nurse all their life.

Sorry again for trying to revive a dead thread, I just wanted to put my two cents in.

Some nurses are mean. Some are lazy. Most are mean gossiping busy bodies who want to see drs burn. A precious few are super amazing, strong, or supportive.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

I know this post is dead, but I just want to point out that OP got a degree in nursing and then got a medical degree. Yeah, med school is definitely more difficult, it's supposed to be, but that doesn't mean that nurses should "just work within [their] scope as a nurse as op said. I am going to get my nursing undergrad degree, and work as a nurse while I study so I am a little less in debt than I would be with a less practical degree.

I applaud all doctors for putting in that work, but do not assume that a nurse is trying to rise above her station just because she wants to further her career. I want to deliver babies. I could get a masters in midwifery (which is still respectable) but what fun is that? I want to be an expert at obstetric treatment! I want to be able to do c-sections when natural birth isn't an option! Nurses are super amazing, strong, and supportive. Yes, there is nothing wrong with being a nurse but some people don't want to be a nurse all their life.

Sorry again for trying to revive a dead thread, I just wanted to put my two cents in.

I'm assuming by this post you're going to try to get into med school while you're a nurse and do OB/GYN? If you think you're going to have time to work your 3 12s a week as a nurse and go to medical school at the same time...you're in for a rough ride. Might be able to swing it (at least part time) during 1st year, maybe part of 2nd year, not at all 3rd year and your interview schedule will be so unpredictable 4th year you wouldn't be able to do it at least half the year (and believe me when I say you won't want to do it the second half of fourth year). I'd advise going to a school that doesn't have any mandatory attendance too, otherwise you're gonna be doing all nights and weekends. Not a fun time.

 

[sloop]

I know this post is dead, but I just want to point out that OP got a degree in nursing and then got a medical degree. Yeah, med school is definitely more difficult, it's supposed to be, but that doesn't mean that nurses should "just work within [their] scope as a nurse as op said. I am going to get my nursing undergrad degree, and work as a nurse while I study so I am a little less in debt than I would be with a less practical degree.

I applaud all doctors for putting in that work, but do not assume that a nurse is trying to rise above her station just because she wants to further her career. I want to deliver babies. I could get a masters in midwifery (which is still respectable) but what fun is that? I want to be an expert at obstetric treatment! I want to be able to do c-sections when natural birth isn't an option! Nurses are super amazing, strong, and supportive. Yes, there is nothing wrong with being a nurse but some people don't want to be a nurse all their life.

Sorry again for trying to revive a dead thread, I just wanted to put my two cents in.

This post is so full of hopes and dreams that are destined to die.

 

[clinic21]

Well, this thread has been educational. I made it through the first 11 or so pages looking for answers; since, I am considering both fields – as well as PA and related non–clinical fields.

There are some real personalities in here! The OP comes across as a bitter ex–nurse who may have had some sort of inferiority complex working as a nurse, and who now has a superiority complex tied to attending medical school. I wouldn't be surprised if, in the back of his head, he's thinking "4 years of medical school, 3+ years of residency, $100-300k of additional debt, all of that extra studying and related life sacrifices ...and, I could have just kept working as an RN, gone part–time to NP school, and taken on a similar role – albeit with less pay and less responsibility, but with zero additional debt or other life sacrifices."

The NP, Zenman, has an incredible life story, if it's true – I would love to buy him a beer. Actually, he comes across as a breath of fresh air – someone who seems to understand what the real world is like once you leave the boxed in fantasy land of academia, training, and comforting textbooks.

But seriously. How many people here have actually worked for >6 years as a fully–licensed, practicing, physician? How many people who are posting here are "traditional" M1 or M2 students who have never held a real, full–time, job for more than 1–2 years? How many people here are actually teenagers, who haven't even finished high school, akin to this guy: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/18/u...accused-of-posing-as-a-doctor-again.html?_r=0

People write about the subjects in this thread as if they are experts on those subjects. But really, where is that information coming from? I have over a decade of non–clinical work experience, and looking to make a transition into a role where I can help sick people. Since I am at the beginning of my 30's, the opportunity cost of time is much greater than when I was 22-23 years old. While I have the grades (3.9 GPA in maths/physics/related) and life story to get into medical school or related programs, given I jump through the necessary hoops (MCAT/GRE and some pre–med courses, which I am currently working through), I have options; but, choosing a good option at this point in life isn't easy. It seems that I will have to look for answers elsewhere. Perhaps the MDs/PAs/NPs at the hospital where I just accepted a position—which happens to be one of the the top ranked teaching hospitals in the world, for it's particular specialty—will have some answers and the credibility to back those answers up.

 

[DocVapor]

Fishy post is fishy.

2/10.

 

[Psai]

Well, this thread has been educational. I made it through the first 11 or so pages looking for answers; since, I am considering both fields – as well as PA and related non–clinical fields.

There are some real personalities in here! The OP comes across as a bitter ex–nurse who may have had some sort of inferiority complex working as a nurse, and who now has a superiority complex tied to attending medical school. I wouldn't be surprised if, in the back of his head, he's thinking "4 years of medical school, 3+ years of residency, $100-300k of additional debt, all of that extra studying and related life sacrifices ...and, I could have just kept working as an RN, gone part–time to NP school, and taken on a similar role – albeit with less pay and less responsibility, but with zero additional debt or other life sacrifices."

The NP, Zenman, has an incredible life story, if it's true – I would love to buy him a beer. Actually, he comes across as a breath of fresh air – someone who seems to understand what the real world is like once you leave the boxed in fantasy land of academia, training, and comforting textbooks.

But seriously. How many people here have actually worked for >6 years as a fully–licensed, practicing, physician? How many people who are posting here are "traditional" M1 or M2 students who have never held a real, full–time, job for more than 1–2 years? How many people here are actually teenagers, who haven't even finished high school, akin to this guy: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/18/u...accused-of-posing-as-a-doctor-again.html?_r=0

People write about the subjects in this thread as if they are experts on those subjects. But really, where is that information coming from? I have over a decade of non–clinical work experience, and looking to make a transition into a role where I can help sick people. Since I am at the beginning of my 30's, the opportunity cost of time is much greater than when I was 22-23 years old. While I have the grades (3.9 GPA in maths/physics/related) and life story to get into medical school or related programs, given I jump through the necessary hoops (MCAT/GRE and some pre–med courses, which I am currently working through), I have options; but, choosing a good option at this point in life isn't easy. It seems that I will have to look for answers elsewhere. Perhaps the MDs/PAs/NPs at the hospital where I just accepted a position—which happens to be one of the the top ranked teaching hospitals in the world, for it's particular specialty—will have some answers and the credibility to back those answers up.

I have no idea what is going on in this post
Are you hating on everyone? Are you just unjustifiably full of yourself? Hard to say

 

[clinic21]

I have no idea what is going on in this post
Are you hating on everyone? Are you just unjustifiably full of yourself? Hard to say

I'd say it's the opposite. I don't hate anyone. Personally—and I am saying this as a person who recognizes that I don't have a medical background—all three professions (NPs, PAs, and MDs) seem like they can offer real value to patient care. Perhaps I simply don't have enough experience with the industry to know better – but, I expect that I'll learn pretty quickly by actually working at a real hospital (as opposed to reading through threads of rants on the internet).

In fact, it seems that you, and many others in this thread, are hating on NPs. Do you really, truly, believe that NPs and PAs can't handle routine activities? That they aren't capable of knowing when it's time to refer to a physician? Do you believe that they shouldn't have a right to exist as a profession? What are your credentials anyways? Are you actually a medical student? How do medical students, with the rigor of medical school, have time to write and follow 18 pages of rants? When I was doing my undergrad, in a technical subject, there is no way I would have had time for that. Do you have extensive medical work experience, or are you making the statements that you've made simply based on some 3-4 month clinical rotations as a medical student?

Yes, I do have good grades, and I did study hard, but I am actually quite humble due to life experiences. Basically, I was just searching these threads to try and learn more about the differences between these various professions (i.e. to see where I might fit in, if I even decide to go a clinical route). It seems that I will have to search elsewhere for answers.

 

[el_duderino]

People write about the subjects in this thread as if they are experts on those subjects. But really, where is that information coming from? I have over a decade of non–clinical work experience, and looking to make a transition into a role where I can help sick people. Since I am at the beginning of my 30's, the opportunity cost of time is much greater than when I was 22-23 years old. While I have the grades (3.9 GPA in maths/physics/related) and life story to get into medical school or related programs, given I jump through the necessary hoops (MCAT/GRE and some pre–med courses, which I am currently working through), I have options; but, choosing a good option at this point in life isn't easy. It seems that I will have to look for answers elsewhere. Perhaps the MDs/PAs/NPs at the hospital where I just accepted a position—which happens to be one of the the top ranked teaching hospitals in the world, for it's particular specialty—will have some answers and the credibility to back those answers up.

I worked full time for over 10 years in enterprise IT before dropping it to go to medical school. Do you have some questions, or...... what are you asking, or saying, exactly?

 

[el_duderino]

In fact, it seems that you, and many others in this thread, are hating on NPs. Do you really, truly, believe that NPs and PAs can't handle routine activities? That they aren't capable of knowing when it's time to refer to a physician? Do you believe that they shouldn't have a right to exist as a profession?

Let me preface this by saying I'm just a student, finishing up second year this month. I have precious little clinical experience. But I do have enough experience to know that clinical problems don't present with a difficulty rating. The patient doesn't tell you "I have an uncommon problem you may not have heard of," and few patients present with the "classic triad" of this or that. Few patients have only one pathology.

In other words, it's not necessarily obvious that at patient needs a physician. Or even obvious that a patient needs a referral to a specialist. Mid-levels absolutely have significant value, but you're oversimplifying the problem by insinuating that it's not an issue because they "know when it's time to refer to a physician."

 

[clinic21]

I worked full time for over 10 years in enterprise IT before dropping it to go to medical school. Do you have some questions, or...... what are you asking, or saying, exactly?

That's pretty cool! I actually did 3-4 years IT myself; but, toward the end, when I was completing my degree, it was more programming / data analysis.

Let me preface this by saying I'm just a student, finishing up second year this month. I have precious little clinical experience.

Thank you for prefacing with this. It really helps to know where you are coming from. A lot of statements on this thread, someone will write something like "nurses [x] [y] [z]" – and you simply don't know what they are basing it on. Are they a practicing physician with 30 years experience managing NPs, a traditional med student with 6 months of rotations, a high school student. It affects the credibility of the statements, as does the anonymity of the internet – as I'm sure you already know.

The patient doesn't tell you "I have an uncommon problem you may not have heard of," and few patients present with the "classic triad" of this or that. Few patients have only one pathology.

In other words, it's not necessarily obvious that at patient needs a physician. Or even obvious that a patient needs a referral to a specialist.

Great point! I'm not a medical professional, but I have enough experience to know that in the real world things are often "messy." It makes logical/theoretical sense that someone with more academic preparation would be better prepared for a situation that is unusual and not immediately evident. At the same time, things don't always work out in the real world the way they do in theory. In CS, for example, some of the best programmers I've known had zero formal academic training. In fact, one of the best programmers I know was a high school dropout (he was simply so into programming that he didn't bother going to classes – and ended up very successful). I'm not saying that is the case here; it's just that what makes logical/theoretical sense isn't always the case in reality. Have you ever spoken with any of your clinical professors about mid–levels? Did they express any insight? Also, off topic, but how old were you when you started medical school? Did you weigh MD vs a shorter (mid–level) route? Thanks!

 

[username456789]

Well, this thread has been educational. I made it through the first 11 or so pages looking for answers; since, I am considering both fields – as well as PA and related non–clinical fields.

There are some real personalities in here! The OP comes across as a bitter ex–nurse who may have had some sort of inferiority complex working as a nurse, and who now has a superiority complex tied to attending medical school. I wouldn't be surprised if, in the back of his head, he's thinking "4 years of medical school, 3+ years of residency, $100-300k of additional debt, all of that extra studying and related life sacrifices ...and, I could have just kept working as an RN, gone part–time to NP school, and taken on a similar role – albeit with less pay and less responsibility, but with zero additional debt or other life sacrifices."

The NP, Zenman, has an incredible life story, if it's true – I would love to buy him a beer. Actually, he comes across as a breath of fresh air – someone who seems to understand what the real world is like once you leave the boxed in fantasy land of academia, training, and comforting textbooks.

But seriously. How many people here have actually worked for >6 years as a fully–licensed, practicing, physician? How many people who are posting here are "traditional" M1 or M2 students who have never held a real, full–time, job for more than 1–2 years? How many people here are actually teenagers, who haven't even finished high school, akin to this guy: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/18/u...accused-of-posing-as-a-doctor-again.html?_r=0

People write about the subjects in this thread as if they are experts on those subjects. But really, where is that information coming from? I have over a decade of non–clinical work experience, and looking to make a transition into a role where I can help sick people. Since I am at the beginning of my 30's, the opportunity cost of time is much greater than when I was 22-23 years old. While I have the grades (3.9 GPA in maths/physics/related) and life story to get into medical school or related programs, given I jump through the necessary hoops (MCAT/GRE and some pre–med courses, which I am currently working through), I have options; but, choosing a good option at this point in life isn't easy. It seems that I will have to look for answers elsewhere. Perhaps the MDs/PAs/NPs at the hospital where I just accepted a position—which happens to be one of the the top ranked teaching hospitals in the world, for it's particular specialty—will have some answers and the credibility to back those answers up.

You just wasted a ton of space trying to justify your inevitable decision to not apply to medical school and settle for something else.

Not everyone is cut out for medicine. It's clear you're the one you're trying to convince.

 

[Psai]

I'd say it's the opposite. I don't hate anyone. Personally—and I am saying this as a person who recognizes that I don't have a medical background—all three professions (NPs, PAs, and MDs) seem like they can offer real value to patient care. Perhaps I simply don't have enough experience with the industry to know better – but, I expect that I'll learn pretty quickly by actually working at a real hospital (as opposed to reading through threads of rants on the internet).

In fact, it seems that you, and many others in this thread, are hating on NPs. Do you really, truly, believe that NPs and PAs can't handle routine activities? That they aren't capable of knowing when it's time to refer to a physician? Do you believe that they shouldn't have a right to exist as a profession? What are your credentials anyways? Are you actually a medical student? How do medical students, with the rigor of medical school, have time to write and follow 18 pages of rants? When I was doing my undergrad, in a technical subject, there is no way I would have had time for that. Do you have extensive medical work experience, or are you making the statements that you've made simply based on some 3-4 month clinical rotations as a medical student?

Yes, I do have good grades, and I did study hard, but I am actually quite humble due to life experiences. Basically, I was just searching these threads to try and learn more about the differences between these various professions (i.e. to see where I might fit in, if I even decide to go a clinical route). It seems that I will have to search elsewhere for answers.

I am the most humble than you

Do you really think it matters whether or not you believe that I'm a medical student? I'm trying very hard to care about your exceptionally rigorous undergraduate coursework though. Have worked with midlevels who constantly surprise me with how little they know. Am not impressed with their poor fund of knowledge or terrible workups. It doesn't take very long to realize if somene is good or not. When you have people consistently doing weird things like stat ct and mri head for progressive vision loss over months without even a basic eye or neuro exam, you know something is wrong

 

[el_duderino]

Also, off topic, but how old were you when you started medical school? Did you weigh MD vs a shorter (mid–level) route? Thanks!

33. I did not consider becoming a midlevel. I got into this for the responsibility and decision-making ability. I had a good career already. If I was going to leave that behind and go to school for the entirety of my 30s to become something else, it wasn't going to be settling for something almost as good as what I really wanted.

 

[el_duderino]

I'm trying very hard to care about your exceptionally rigorous undergraduate coursework though.

That part did make me laugh. I went to a difficult, grade-deflating school as an undergrad and hardly had to study to get As. I had never had to study for multiple hours per day in undergrad. I'm doing it every day in med school, and still barely above average.

 

[FiveOClock]

I'd say it's the opposite. I don't hate anyone. Personally—and I am saying this as a person who recognizes that I don't have a medical background—all three professions (NPs, PAs, and MDs) seem like they can offer real value to patient care. Perhaps I simply don't have enough experience with the industry to know better – but, I expect that I'll learn pretty quickly by actually working at a real hospital (as opposed to reading through threads of rants on the internet).

In fact, it seems that you, and many others in this thread, are hating on NPs. Do you really, truly, believe that NPs and PAs can't handle routine activities? That they aren't capable of knowing when it's time to refer to a physician? Do you believe that they shouldn't have a right to exist as a profession? What are your credentials anyways? Are you actually a medical student? How do medical students, with the rigor of medical school, have time to write and follow 18 pages of rants? When I was doing my undergrad, in a technical subject, there is no way I would have had time for that. Do you have extensive medical work experience, or are you making the statements that you've made simply based on some 3-4 month clinical rotations as a medical student?

Yes, I do have good grades, and I did study hard, but I am actually quite humble due to life experiences. Basically, I was just searching these threads to try and learn more about the differences between these various professions (i.e. to see where I might fit in, if I even decide to go a clinical route). It seems that I will have to search elsewhere for answers.

No, we're just not as brain dead as you think. They can handle activities that they are directed to do and nothing else. They have no pathophysiologic understanding of the disease process they are attempting to treat. They have google and their "experience." Especially in smaller practice outside of a large hospital, they are likely to treat the patient themselves in order to bill the patient. Duh. You seem to lack pragmatic insight for being a wise 30-year-old.

 

[Mad Jack]

18 pages later and I'm still not disappointed

 

[Mad Jack]

I'd say it's the opposite. I don't hate anyone. Personally—and I am saying this as a person who recognizes that I don't have a medical background—all three professions (NPs, PAs, and MDs) seem like they can offer real value to patient care. Perhaps I simply don't have enough experience with the industry to know better – but, I expect that I'll learn pretty quickly by actually working at a real hospital (as opposed to reading through threads of rants on the internet).

In fact, it seems that you, and many others in this thread, are hating on NPs. Do you really, truly, believe that NPs and PAs can't handle routine activities? That they aren't capable of knowing when it's time to refer to a physician? Do you believe that they shouldn't have a right to exist as a profession? What are your credentials anyways? Are you actually a medical student? How do medical students, with the rigor of medical school, have time to write and follow 18 pages of rants? When I was doing my undergrad, in a technical subject, there is no way I would have had time for that. Do you have extensive medical work experience, or are you making the statements that you've made simply based on some 3-4 month clinical rotations as a medical student?

Yes, I do have good grades, and I did study hard, but I am actually quite humble due to life experiences. Basically, I was just searching these threads to try and learn more about the differences between these various professions (i.e. to see where I might fit in, if I even decide to go a clinical route). It seems that I will have to search elsewhere for answers.

The problem with NPs and PAs "knowing when it's time to refer" is that they often won't know when it's time to refer due to their lack of education. It's easy to chalk something with enough symptoms that fit (say, vaguely remembering that S. pyogenes has strawberry tongue and cola-colored urine) to the most common attributable cause rather than a less common but life-threatening cause that you never really studied (Kawasaki disease, which has enough differentiating features to easily be picked out by a physician). There's times when they should refer but wouldn't because they simply never learned the full differential or enough pathology, and those times can be measured in morbidity and mortality.

 

[clinic21]

33. I did not consider becoming a midlevel. I got into this for the responsibility and decision-making ability. I had a good career already. If I was going to leave that behind and go to school for the entirety of my 30s to become something else, it wasn't going to be settling for something almost as good as what I really wanted.

Interesting, thanks! I would be about the same age by matriculation ...if I do decide to go that route.

I am the most humble than you

Do you really think it matters whether or not you believe that I'm a medical student? I'm trying very hard to care about your exceptionally rigorous undergraduate coursework though. Have worked with midlevels who constantly surprise me with how little they know. Am not impressed with their poor fund of knowledge or terrible workups. It doesn't take very long to realize if somene is good or not. When you have people consistently doing weird things like stat ct and mri head for progressive vision loss over months without even a basic eye or neuro exam, you know something is wrong

By your exceptional grammatical skills, and the maturity of your response, it's a real stretch to believe that you made it into medical school or that you are over 23 years old. Either way, you are right: it doesn't matter. Maybe you really are some trained physician with decades of experience managing midlevels, which you can draw on to derive such deep insights into their abilities. There is no way to know, since you didn't answer any of my questions. Either way, there are enough people in the world who have real, established, credibility that I'm simply going to stop paying attention to you. Have a good life.

That part did make me laugh. I went to a difficult, grade-deflating school as an undergrad and hardly had to study to get As. I had never had to study for multiple hours per day in undergrad. I'm doing it every day in med school, and still barely above average.

Haha. I agree. A technical undergrad degree isn't especially rigorous – especially compared to technical PhD–level courses. However, some people really do seem to have a hard time handling technical courses; the attrition rate in my early math courses was something like 40-80%. Perhaps it's just work ethic? I don't know. The only reason I even mentioned that background was to point out that these various options more or less should be on the table (MD, PA, NP) – but, then again, who knows how adcoms will evaluate any individual application. Do you really find med school that much more time consuming than your undergraduate studies (I'm assuming it was in a technical field)? How much time do you and your peers spend studying to perform about average? Is it like 8-2AM every day, or are you able to have some measure of balance in your life?

 

[el_duderino]

Do you really find med school that much more time consuming than your undergraduate studies (I'm assuming it was in a technical field)?

Hahaha. Yes. I have a few hours to myself every night, and can take days off on the weekends sometimes. But there's no comparison to undergrad.

I don't recommend anyone go to med school unless they can't see themselves being satisfied any other way.

 

[clinic21]

Hahaha. Yes. I have a few hours to myself every night, and can take days off on the weekends sometimes. But there's no comparison to undergrad.

Thanks. That's something to think about. It sounds comparable to a high stress job (e.g. law/finance sorts of roles). Did you guys have any attrition during the program? Would you say it's something where if you're good enough to get in, and you put in the effort and sacrifice, you'll get through; or, were there lots of people who managed to get in and still weren't able to handle the work? Would you say that the material is as intellectually challenging as your technical undergrad, or is it more just huge quantities of memorization?

I don't recommend anyone go to med school unless they can't see themselves being satisfied any other way.

Yeah, I'm definitely not there yet. I'm honestly not sure what it would take to get there. Anyways, thanks again for your insight. We're getting off topic from the thread; if I have any follow–up questions ...will search elsewhere.

 

[el_duderino]

Did you guys have any attrition during the program? Would you say it's something where if you're good enough to get in, and you put in the effort and sacrifice, you'll get through; or, were there lots of people who managed to get in and still weren't able to handle the work? Would you say that the material is as intellectually challenging as your technical undergrad, or is it more just huge quantities of memorization?

Attrition rates at US MD schools are exceedingly low (low single digit percentages), for a number of reasons. One is practical - it's very expensive, and you're so much in debt after one year you're basically compelled to continue. But beyond that, the process of getting accepted is so rigorous and difficult that those who aren't dedicated won't even finish. The acceptance requirements in terms of what's expected of an applicant are also so high that few who aren't very dedicated would even get accepted. Finally, low graduation rates make a school look very bad and threaten revocation of accreditation, so the administrations of such schools are very interested in making sure their students succeed. To that end, they are active in the affairs of students who are struggling and provide many resources to ensure student support.

The material is not overly complicated or difficult. There's just a lot of it. If you're intelligent enough to get accepted, you're intelligent enough to understand the material. The hard part is simply consuming so much material day in and day out. You don't need to be brilliant to succeed in medical school - you just need to be smarter than average and dedicated enough to keep up with the torrent of material.

 

[Psai]

Attrition rates at US MD schools are exceedingly low (low single digit percentages), for a number of reasons. One is practical - it's very expensive, and you're so much in debt after one year you're basically compelled to continue. But beyond that, the process of getting accepted is so rigorous and difficult that those who aren't dedicated won't even finish. The acceptance requirements in terms of what's expected of an applicant are also so high that few who aren't very dedicated would even get accepted. Finally, low graduation rates make a school look very bad and threaten revocation of accreditation, so the administrations of such schools are very interested in making sure their students succeed. To that end, they are active in the affairs of students who are struggling and provide many resources to ensure student support.

The material is not overly complicated or difficult. There's just a lot of it. If you're intelligent enough to get accepted, you're intelligent enough to understand the material. The hard part is simply consuming so much material day in and day out. You don't need to be brilliant to succeed in medical school - you just need to be smarter than average and dedicated enough to keep up with the torrent of material.

Just above average is not true. I get the sense that most smart people don't realize how stupid the average person is. We are above average among our peers but far above the average of the general population. It's a lot of information and it does take a lot of brainpower to understand the underlying principles and concepts. You're just at a point where you take much of it for granted

 

[el_duderino]

You need to be smart, certainly. But you don't need to be crazy brilliant. The average "smart kid" can hack it if he wants to and tries hard.

 

[sliceofbread136]

Why is there some random middle aged IT worker coming on to a medical student website to hate on the extent of a med students clinical experience? No one cares about how hard your undergrad was grandpa, take it somewhere else

 

[heybrother]

Here's an outsiders perspective - without being overly specific I'm on an inpatient surgery floor. The nurses are "veterans", quite caring, and very observant. The floor couldn't run without them and I've personally learned a great deal from them. Unfortunately, they don't really know why the doctor does what she does. When everything follows the cookbook they do great work. When they occasionally make suggestions you start to realize that they've hung 1000 bags of saline, but they never really understood why. Perhaps the doctor should teach more or explain herself.(no thanks)

On an unrelated note, I've never seen so much eye rolling in my life. Every time a female doctor speaks a nurse has to look at her brain. Women are crappy to each other women.

 

[clinic21]

Why is there some random middle aged IT worker coming on to a medical student website to hate on the extent of a med students clinical experience? No one cares about how hard your undergrad was grandpa, take it somewhere else

Maybe I came here to try and learn more about the differences between these various careers, because I'm looking to make a transition into healthcare; and, found it somewhat gross that a group of egotistical med students, who most likely have little–to–no experience in work or in life, are hating on an entire profession (and making claims that they most likely have zero actual professional experience to backup).

By the way, I'm not an IT worker. I did that while I was in college to pay for my degree. Personally, I didn't think the undergrad degree was exceptionally hard, but working full time while completing a technical degree full time, and getting good grades, was challenging and time consuming. It is you, and a few others, that seem to think it was "exceptionally rigorous."

Just above average is not true. I get the sense that most smart people don't realize how stupid the average person is. We are above average among our peers but far above the average of the general population. It's a lot of information and it does take a lot of brainpower to understand the underlying principles and concepts. You're just at a point where you take much of it for granted

I think he meant the typical person who has gotten through an engineering, math, physics, or science program, and done well enough grade–wise to get into medical school. Personally, I don't think that the general population, or the average person, is as stupid as you seem to believe; it's that most people haven't been lucky enough to, from a young age, get the sort of education and training that empowers one to think critically and develop effective study/learning skills.

 

[sliceofbread136]

Maybe I came here to try and learn more about the differences between these various careers, because I'm looking to make a transition into healthcare; and, found it somewhat gross that a group of egotistical med students, who most likely have little–to–no experience in work or in life, are hating on an entire profession (and making claims that they most likely have zero actual professional experience to backup).

By the way, I'm not an IT worker. I did that while I was in college to pay for my degree. Personally, I didn't think the undergrad degree was exceptionally hard, but working full time while completing a technical degree full time, and getting good grades, was challenging and time consuming. It is you, and a few others, that seem to think it was "exceptionally rigorous."

Yes we are the egotistical ones

You have way too much life experience for all of us children on this board, maybe you'll find people more up to your standard on reddit or something. Goodluck it will be hard to live up to your extreme wisdom!

 

[giantswing]

Maybe I came here to try and learn more about the differences between these various careers, because I'm looking to make a transition into healthcare; and, found it somewhat gross that a group of egotistical med students, who most likely have little–to–no experience in work or in life, are hating on an entire profession (and making claims that they most likely have zero actual professional experience to backup).

By the way, I'm not an IT worker. I did that while I was in college to pay for my degree. Personally, I didn't think the undergrad degree was exceptionally hard, but working full time while completing a technical degree full time, and getting good grades, was challenging and time consuming. It is you, and a few others, that seem to think it was "exceptionally rigorous."



I think he meant the typical person who has gotten through an engineering, math, physics, or science program, and done well enough grade–wise to get into medical school. Personally, I don't think that the general population, or the average person, is as stupid as you seem to believe; it's that most people haven't been lucky enough to, from a young age, get the sort of education and training that empowers one to think critically and develop effective study/learning skills.

Worked in "the real world" after under grad and got married ect before med school.

Now. You dont need real life experience to recognize wretched human beings when you see them.

Some nurses are wretched, gross human beings. Few are not. Carry on.

 

[clinic21]

Some nurses are wretched, gross human beings. Few are not. Carry on.

Neither nurses nor doctors have a monopoly on wretchedness. It's a part of the human condition.

 

[giantswing]

Neither nurses nor doctors have a monopoly on wretchedness. It's a part of the human condition.

Residents are wretched in that are not allowed to fight back. Nurses know this and trample on the downtrodden, which makes them pretty wretched too, but in a different way.

 

[Psai]

Maybe I came here to try and learn more about the differences between these various careers, because I'm looking to make a transition into healthcare; and, found it somewhat gross that a group of egotistical med students, who most likely have little–to–no experience in work or in life, are hating on an entire profession (and making claims that they most likely have zero actual professional experience to backup).

By the way, I'm not an IT worker. I did that while I was in college to pay for my degree. Personally, I didn't think the undergrad degree was exceptionally hard, but working full time while completing a technical degree full time, and getting good grades, was challenging and time consuming. It is you, and a few others, that seem to think it was "exceptionally rigorous."



I think he meant the typical person who has gotten through an engineering, math, physics, or science program, and done well enough grade–wise to get into medical school. Personally, I don't think that the general population, or the average person, is as stupid as you seem to believe; it's that most people haven't been lucky enough to, from a young age, get the sort of education and training that empowers one to think critically and develop effective study/learning skills.

You are very strange. You come here pretending to want to be a doctor but insult us. You claim to have a lot of experience but your biggest claim to fame is your college experience. You are obsessed with how egotistical others are, likely because how you view yourself colors your ideas about others. It would be prudent for you to look into other fields

And your ideas about intelligence are incorrect. Education is not a prerequisite for intelligence and plenty of educated people are not intelligent as you've been so kind to demonstrate

 

[Rajayray2019]

As someone who is about to complete medical school, and who went through nursing school for a BSN, the knowledge gap between the two is exponential. In light of recent arguments made by militant nurses who argue that the required nursing courses to complete an associates degree or BSN is just as good as medical school. First you take an A&P, 101 course on microbiology, a introductory 12 week course in "orgo/gen chem, Biochem" all combined superficially in 12 weeks, 12 week course in Pathophysiology 101. Looking back those courses, they were very superficial at the amount of knowledge required to pass. Those science courses were no where near the complexity that medical schools dig into, where things get broken down into the mechanism of protein structures that allow them to function a certain way. With out understanding the complexities of the inner workings of what actually occur at the cellular level, you can't begin to understand what went wrong when the ALGORITHM they are trained to follow doesn't go according to plan. Then comes the nursing courses, and the "clinicals" that they do. The actual nursing courses were good enough to understand and complete NURSING tasks. They were not good enough to treat and effectively manage complex disease, but when I was a nursing student at that time I thought I knew just as much as a doctor, and I was dead wrong. The clinicals were a joke, you passed out meds,maybe gave a few injections, changed wet diapers on incontinent patients, and followed the orders given by the doctor. I am all about advanced education, but there is NO DIFFERENCE in the fundamental knowledge between a RN VS BSN other than some "nursing research courses and fluff to get fancy titles like clinical nurse specialist, or infection control specialist" but the core principles are EXACTLY THE SAME. So when they claim they have a BSN not an associates in nursing, there is NO difference, and I dare you to find me a BSN who would say there is. Something else that ticks me off I hear from nurses trying to be MD's is " I have 15+ years in the ICU, ER, or MED/SURG floor," that counts as more education like a residency. Good for you! But, when I worked as a nurses assistant for 5+ years I didn't claim to know or be equivalent to a RN just because I saw what they did, and helped them carry out orders. How would NURSES like it if LPN's claimed to be EQUIVALENT to RN's/BSN's? Probably wouldn't go well. I am not knocking down the profession of nursing, what I am annoyed with is NURSES/NP's claiming to be equivalent to MD's. You are not, you were trained in the NURSING SCOPE of practice. I love nurses, yes I would trust a seasoned ICU nurse's opinion vs a Freshly minted MD out of med school in July as an Intern, but I guarantee that by the end of 3-4 months of intern year, his knowledge base will increase exponentialy to surpass that of any ICU nurse due to his knowledge base gained from 8 years of education that doesn't stop during residency, and now applying it daily as a intern. So nurses I beg you to please just work within your scope as a nurse, and stop trying to claim equivelancy through studies "propaganda" funded by the militant nurses association.

BOOM.

 

[el_duderino]

You are very strange. You come here pretending to want to be a doctor but insult us. You claim to have a lot of experience but your biggest claim to fame is your college experience. You are obsessed with how egotistical others are, likely because how you view yourself colors your ideas about others. It would be prudent for you to look into other fields

And your ideas about intelligence are incorrect. Education is not a prerequisite for intelligent and plenty of educated people are not intelligent as you've been so kind to demonstrate

Yeah, I don't get the impression that he has any interest in medical school.

 

[username456789]

Yeah, I don't get the impression that he has any interest in medical school.

I don't get the impression that any medical schools would have any interest in him, either.

 

[psychMDhopefully]

Definitely like this place more than r/medschool, that place is too boring, too liberal, and too much nurse butt kissing goes on there.

 

[clinic21]

Yeah, I don't get the impression that he has any interest in medical school.

As you and others have said: "don't go to medical school unless you can't see yourself being happy doing anything else."

 

[Psai]

Definitely like this place more than r/medschool, that place is too boring, too liberal, and too much nurse butt kissing goes on there.

I think nurses are great. Just have no respect for nurses that pretend to be doctors. Just today I saw an np "educating" a poor old lady about her DOCTOR of nurse practitioning. Just let her go home man, don't bother her with bull****

 

[W19]

I think nurses are great. Just have no respect for nurses that pretend to be doctors. Just today I saw an np "educating" a poor old lady about her DOCTOR of nurse practitioning. Just let her go home man, don't bother her with bull****

That's like over 90% of them...

 

[giantswing]

That's like over 90% of them...

I've had rns on the floor call me and say, i drew/collected a sample can you put in the order for such and such a test? Then argue with me when i say theres no indication for said test. Or they call and say they recommend a test, as if they were a consult team and not a floor rn. Usually the test is completely inappropriate, or theres a cheaper first other thing to do or such.

 

[badasshairday]

I think nurses are great. Just have no respect for nurses that pretend to be doctors. Just today I saw an np "educating" a poor old lady about her DOCTOR of nurse practitioning. Just let her go home man, don't bother her with bull****

That is rich. What did she say as her explanation?

 

[sloop]

I've had rns on the floor call me and say, i drew/collected a sample can you put in the order for such and such a test? Then argue with me when i say theres no indication for said test. Or they call and say they recommend a test, as if they were a consult team and not a floor rn. Usually the test is completely inappropriate, or theres a cheaper first other thing to do or such.

There are a few nurses I'd like to have on the floor, but getting called afterwards with recommendations for getting a test done definitely sounds like a bad time.

 

[Psai]

That is rich. What did she say as her explanation?

Nothing. She was just like I'm a doctor as i have a doctor of nurse practitioner degree while hovering over the patient and the poor patient is sitting in her wheelchair saying I'm sorry dear, i didn't know about that

 

[giantswing]

There are a few nurses I'd like to have on the floor, but getting called afterwards with recommendations for getting a test done definitely sounds like a bad time.

My favorite : the iv infiltrated, we think you should order a doppler to ro dvt. Because the arm is swollen which means they could have a dvt. And we recommend a surgery and burn consult

 

[sloop]

My favorite : the iv infiltrated, we think you should order a doppler to ro dvt.

I saw a patient with this exact story two days ago. I was not on the primary team but I heard some of the nursing staff talking about how "the patient might have a DVT, his arm is all swollen." The IV had infiltrated.

 

[anaesthetic]

.

 

[giantswing]

If you haven't started residency, you will learn to always go and assess the patient if you get paged by the nurse. I can't count the amount of "chest pain" or "definitely infected" calls I've gotten that turned out to be nothing. "Patient is complaining of shortness of breath." That's because the NC is on their forehead, and they're on home oxygen. "Patient is complaining of nausea and vomiting." Did you give the PRN zofran? "No."

Finishing up intern year soon, and I learned a lot this year. I learned who the good nurses are and especially who the bad ones are. I learned that some interns, residents, fellows, and attendings can also be incompetent and generally unpleasant people, and I learned that this is probably what all of us will experience at some point in our careers. Maybe some of you are the very people you complain about, and maybe I am too. Who knows? It feels good to let it out though. Let the hate continue: I worked with an NP who was very concerned that the patient's white count "went from 8.4 to 9.4" and had a "fever of 99.4" so we should pan-culture him and start him on empiric antibiotics. Don't worry. She's been doing this longer than any of us residents have and will let us pretend to give her orders to "get experience leading a team." Cue eyeroll.

Of course, always assess the patient!!!
It makes it extra horrible when its calls like the iv infiltrated come and look and its three am and you're hungry sand haven't slept. They can cry wolf all they want bc their behind isnt on the line and you can't in general not go assess the patient.