of course no one forced a sanitation worker to do that job - you're as free to quit and look for a better job as they are. i'm not sure what exactly your point is in the first paragraph - i don't have an objection to docs unionizing, however i would have a problem if docs were forced to join a union.
Here's the point; people who didn't like the benefits of their job in other professions took the time to do something about it and I'd be there weren't too many sanitation workings telling their co-workers to settle down, we make enough.
i happen to agree that the pay for primary care docs stinks, and with the loans we have is almost prohibitive. however there are still 3 applications to med school for every spot,
This line of reasoning makes absolutely no sense. How many people apply to med school has absolutely nothing to do with the demand for our services, especially when there is a 7 year delay in introducing them to the mix. In fact, there is a growing demand for our services and we're not keeping up to even maintain the pt to dr ratios and yet our pay is dropping.
you say "pay me what i'm worth" - again, for residency i agree it's a raw deal, and we could get into a huge discussion about the match and whether it violates the sherman anti-trust act. i have mixed feelings about that subject, as i can see both sides of the argument. but let's ignore that since it's only 3-8 years for most people.
It does violate the Sherman anti-trust act, and removes all means for negotiation of pay. And frankly, the argument that it's only a few years is again ignoring that we've already dedicated 8 years of post-high school education towards this and it's only 3 more years of chump change, piss poor hours, and everything else that goes along with it?
if you don't feel you're being paid what you're worth, then don't take the job. it really is that simple.
Actually it isn't that simple. As a newly graduated physician, my degree is worthless without post-graduate training, I can't see pts, can't get malpractice insurance, can't even get a state license. They kinda have me by the balls, now don't they? Negotiating realizes that we do have something to offer, even as interns, residents, we contribute and are the back bone of many hospitals. I know several hospitals which absolutely could not keep their doors open were it not for their residencies.
we all have choices, and if you choose that making $90K to do general pediatriacs isn't worth it, then don't. however someone else will, so unless a particular applicant brings something special to the negotiating table, it's gonna be tough to be a significantly higher salary than other docs doing the same thing in your geographic region.
You choose the profession, not the pay. But Peds is a whole different ball of wax. They have the highest rate of insured, yet the lowest pay? How does that make any sense?
as to my friends making around 30K - some are teachers, one's an EMT, one works at a TV station. they've all had 4 years of bachelor's level education.
EMT's do not require 4 years of bachelor level education, and any teacher with only a bachelor is not going to be making nearly what those with a masters will make. The EMT could become a paramedic, the teacher could get her masters, there is their choice. They settled and choose not to go on in their education/training.
however i also have friends with 4 of undergrad making 70K and up already - they're mostly in engineering or business. engineering i would argue is a very safe bet, however i also have friends with business bachelor's degrees making far less. my point was that after residency everyone with an MD/DO who works full time should pull in at least 80K.
and with an average of 150k in student loans, this seems equitable how?
you make a fair point with the 'take a chance' paragraph. i too have a BS that's pretty much worthless. and with the 3:1 ratio mentioned above, it is a chance. but it was a choice i made, and that's the theme of my entire discussion. i chose to go for med school by doing a BS in bio, and of course i wasn't guaranteed a spot, but i think that i made an educated choice to go for it when i saw that i was able to pass and do well in gen bio and chem after my freshman year.
and again, the number of applicants has absolutely nothing to do with the demand of our services.
this is not an easy discussion, but i think it's a good one to have. i respectfully disagree with your premise because at the end of it all, we're adults and we have the ability to choose what we want to do with our lives. we've chosen to be docs.
So we should shut up and take what some over glorified secretary who works in the Medicare/caid dictates what our pay should be? And then we should shut up when insurance dictates that they will only pay what the government pays?
i agree it's not possible to be fully informed about what we're getting ourselves into, but hopefully we all had a pretty good idea.
So you're telling me that as an undergrad you understood the intricacies of how the reimbursement system works and the downsides to it along with the startling trends of physician pay? I do not believe you. I still have a hard time fully comprehending how the leglalese works.
but i also think our best strategy is to work with legislators to make changes one at a time. changes that are in our best interests, and the best interests of patients.
Here's an idea. Changes which are in our best interest to keep us happy, is in the best interest of the pt. If physicians start leaving the profession, the pts will be SOL. Never mind that the legislation tends to be made up of lawyers and that the med-mal lawyers associations lobby far more than we do. We are our own worst enemy. If we truly wanted things to change, we'd actually do something about it instead of sitting here basically twiddling our thumbs afraid to speak out because people have this view that we're overpaid, arrogant sobs who's pay should be reduced.
