Number of applicants per position

[badgas]

I have talked to some of the residency coordinators while scheduling my interviews and they have all been saying the same thing. "We have received around 500-600 applications this year." Does anyone know if this is more than in past years? And these are middle of the road in terms of competitive programs... such as UWisc, UIC, UChicago, Oklahoma... not MGH, BID, etc.

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[VolatileAgent]

we've already received over 700 this year. for 14 spots. this is typically how it's gone the past few years.

 

[bullard]

My program got 950 applications for 18 spots last year.

 

[crockett]

I have talked to some of the residency coordinators while scheduling my interviews and they have all been saying the same thing. "We have received around 500-600 applications this year." Does anyone know if this is more than in past years? And these are middle of the road in terms of competitive programs... such as UWisc, UIC, UChicago, Oklahoma... not MGH, BID, etc.

That is crazy. With all of the problems with anesthesia why sign up to be at the bottom of the hospital food chain. Go for something that brings in the bucks with out having to be the hospital administration's lap dog, like; surgeons, OB-gyn, primary care, dermatology.

The real number to look at is the number of applicants to all programs verse the number of positions. If people are applying to 20 plus program each it will drive up the number of applicant to each program but not say anything about the overall competitiveness of anesthesia.

 

[Bertelman]

With all of the problems with anesthesia why sign up to be at the bottom of the hospital food chain. Go for something that brings in the bucks with out having to be the hospital administration’s lap dog, like; surgeons, OB-gyn, primary care, dermatology.

Bottom of the food chain?

Since when does primary care "bring in the big bucks?" As far as "admin's lap dogs", it may have been a while, but when I was working at a private hospital in the late 90's, the Anesthesia dept. was one of the very few who consistently MADE money for the hospital. Everyone else was in the red.

 

[Atropine]

That is crazy. With all of the problems with anesthesia why sign up to be at the bottom of the hospital food chain. Go for something that brings in the bucks with out having to be the hospital administration's lap dog, like; surgeons, OB-gyn, primary care, dermatology.

The real number to look at is the number of applicants to all programs verse the number of positions. If people are applying to 20 plus program each it will drive up the number of applicant to each program but not say anything about the overall competitiveness of anesthesia.

Haha. That's pretty funny--you must be one of the many medical students who has no shot of getting into anesthesiology. "Brings in the bucks without being at the bottom of the food chain" paired in the same sentence with OB/primary care/majority of surgeons are oxymorons---each for different reasons.

 

[crockett]

Haha. That's pretty funny--you must be one of the many medical students who has no shot of getting into anesthesiology. "Brings in the bucks without being at the bottom of the food chain" paired in the same sentence with OB/primary care/majority of surgeons are oxymorons---each for different reasons.

Please, take the time to read the thread "Jet Loses His Contract". Those students who choose something else may be better off in five or ten years. I chose anesthesia when big name program couldn't event get FMG's to fill their spots but now I wouldn't advise anyone to go into Anesthesia. Yes the money is still good but, I doubt for much longer. I am working on getting out and would advise you to do the same.

We have hospitalists where I work. I believe they could be bought and sold just like any other hospital based specialty-anesthesia/rays/ED/path. Before we got the shaft at my old hospital, the neonatologists were given a take it or leave it offer. Most of them left but were quickly replaced. We are all at the bottom of the food chain.

Primary care, OB/gyn, derm, plastics are at the top. Medical specialists (cardiology, GI) and surgeons are in the middle. We are the bottom feeders.

The only times we are irreplaceable are when there are local AND national manpower shortages. This occurred in the early 2000s but the tide has turned. Nothing we do individually in our practices can make us indispensible. You can be chief of staff or sit on the board of the hospital. It doesn't matter. Our job security and negotiating power are inversely related to the influx of people entering the specialty. Chances are your replacements will be just as slick and friendly as you are. The surgeons, nurses and scrub techs will say they really miss you when you run into them at the grocery store. But they won't really mean it. The future does not bode well.

 

[jennyboo]

The number of applicants doesn't mean very much, particularly if the program is not a highly competitive one. Even if they interview 20 people for every 1 spot, they may rank many of them and in the Match can go very far down their list since many of their applicants put some other program first.

 

[amyl]

all this doom and gloom!

i am a lowly medical student (hopefully with a shot at being an anesthesiologist)...I hope that there will not be a glut of anes in the future and that compensation will drop to nothing but if it does I still don't want to be anything else. If it goes back to $100,000/year i won't like it but it doesn't deter me from the field (i like anes but i really dislike everything else!)

as for primary care being the top of the food chain, and ob/gyn too... I can't figure the logic there... or else it is just very different here in florida. the starting salaries for primary care docs in my area would shock you (esp. when you realize that most of my classmates will be in the hole $250,000 at grad). here in florida all the ob's go bare. i do know the hospital admin and the only thing they are interested in is getting a neurosurgeon and maybe another neurologist...they don't do and are not interested in ob.

 

[amyl]

p.s. -- i asked the chief of anes at the hospital i am at now what he thought about all this doom and gloom talk and the future of anes.....know what he said?

my son is in his residency now, do you think if i thought there was going to be a problem in the future that I would let him pursue anes?

maybe he doesn't know what he is talking about...just thought i would share that not everyone in the know thinks that anes is destined for problems

 

[chicamedica]

Bottom of the food chain? What is that anyway? The thing that came to my mind when you said that is whatever specialty gets the most general patients that dont fit in anywhere else, a kind of a "miscellaneous" field, which would be more like general IM and primary care, maybe gen surg too. Anesthesiologists are consultants. We have a very specialized field, i really dont see how that would be "at the bottom of the hospital food chain" if there even is one.

It really is unfair though to think of hospitals being a "food chain". The only thing that accomplishes is making you haughty and disrespectful of your colleagues. Every specialty is equally important in its own way, and the hospital would not function without each one.


p.s. as for all the concern about the decreasing reimbursements, that is why people should choose anesthesiology because they love the practice of anesthesiology, not for the money.

 

[me454555]

Theres a specialty out there where you will always have job, plenty of patients, no matter where you want to live. That specialty is FP, IM, or Peds. With the glut of sick people out there in need of care, these practictioners will ALWAYS be in business no matter what happens to the medical field. If you want job security, go into primary care, not gas.

 

[chicamedica]

Theres a specialty out there where you will always have job, plenty of patients, no matter where you want to live. That specialty is FP, IM, or Peds. With the glut of sick people out there in need of care, these practictioners will ALWAYS be in business no matter what happens to the medical field. If you want job security, go into primary care, not gas.

As long as there is a need for surgery there is a need for anesthesiology. So I feel very secure regarding job prospects. Actually there seems to be a shortage of anesthesiologists no?

But i do see your point. Surgical candidates are a subset of the general patient population, and everyone needs a PCP. However, NPs/PAs are increasingly being allowed to do what primary care physicians do, so if you're suggesting CRNAs are going to take over anesthesiology, I believe that's a fallacy.

 

[me454555]

However, NPs/PAs are increasingly being allowed to do what primary care physicians do, so if you're suggesting CRNAs are going to take over anesthesiology, I believe that's a fallacy.

The only point I was trying to make is that it doesn't really matter how many NPs/PAs or other midelevel provider we continue to pump out, there will ALWAYS be a shortage or primary care docs because people just keep getting sick and need the basic services they provide.

 

[badgas]

Why does everyone get pulled into this garbage? Just ignore the premed or bored MSI! And if there is no job security in anesthesiology, then why are you applying this time around? Just curious. The anesthesiolgy applicants don't invade the FP forums to tell everyone they will be making 60K/year while being called idiots by most other specialties. So if you don't like anesthesiology, then don't apply. McDonalds employee is actually more appealing to me than working FP, IM, or OB... where would that be considered on the "food chain?" Damn.. now I got sucked in to this crap too.

Back to the point... I asked if the # of applicants has gone up because several of the program coordinators told me the # of applications and paused to wait for a gasp of amazement or something. I personally don't know if 1200 for 8 spots is normal or of 100 for 20 spots is normal.

 

[chicamedica]

Why does everyone get pulled into this garbage? Just ignore the premed or bored MSI! And if there is no job security in anesthesiology, then why are you applying this time around? Just curious. The anesthesiolgy applicants don't invade the FP forums to tell everyone they will be making 60K/year while being called idiots by most other specialties. So if you don't like anesthesiology, then don't apply. McDonalds employee is actually more appealing to me than working FP, IM, or OB... where would that be considered on the "food chain?" Damn.. now I got sucked in to this crap too.

Great point.

Will ignore.

 

[Stimulate]

Theres a specialty out there where you will always have job, plenty of patients, no matter where you want to live. That specialty is FP, IM, or Peds. With the glut of sick people out there in need of care, these practictioners will ALWAYS be in business no matter what happens to the medical field. If you want job security, go into primary care, not gas.

I think this poster is forgetting that PAs and NPs are going to drive down the number of primary care MD jobs. Did you read about the grocery stores that are putting urgent/primary care clinics in them? These little offices are staffed with PAs/NPs who charge a low price to take care of all the bread and butter cases that add nice easy income to your PCP practice. You will be stuck seeing the complicated, chronic patients that suck all of your office time/resources in exchange for the 10 dollar copay and 28 dollar insurance reimbursement. Medicare cuts (where the doom and gloom is coming from) are affecting all physicians but anesthesiologists are among the top of all physician-earners so we have much farther to fall. You take a FP or Pediatrician with $150,000 income and a 10 percent cut really hurts. You cut 10 percent from my $300-750,000 income and I can still pay my 10 dollar copay.

Also, you are forgetting that anesthesiologists can specialize in critical care and pain which are two fields with even higher earning potential and demand.

 

[2ndyear]

Just wanted to comment on the last post. Correct me if I'm wrong, but critical care jobs 1) don't pay any more than OR anesthesia, in fact much less whether you're IM/surg/anesthesia trained and 2) despite being billed as the next area of staffing shortages just hasn't opened up much demand for practitioners. In fact in my state (MA) there are a total of 2 groups outside of academics that have anesthesiologists in the ICU. One has total SICU control in private practice (cool!), the other has 1-2 full time critical care docs rotate with surgeons in the ICU. And this is a fairly populous state, although we do have more teaching hospitals per capita than anywhere else I've seen. Despite the Leapfrog and all that, IM docs (not CC trained) still are responsible for the most critical care billing time out of anyone.

Pain is a different story.

Now what do you think will happen to primary care? Some of their common billing codes are getting a 37% increase! For no procedures! But if you count that a Level 2 follow up gets about $12 by Medicare, a 37% increase still just sucks for your time and knowledge.

 

[Frank Rizzo]

I have talked to some of the residency coordinators while scheduling my interviews and they have all been saying the same thing. "We have received around 500-600 applications this year." Does anyone know if this is more than in past years? And these are middle of the road in terms of competitive programs... such as UWisc, UIC, UChicago, Oklahoma... not MGH, BID, etc.

512 applicants as of last week for 7 spots at my program. My director said they plan on interviewing 50.

As for all the 'doom and gloom'... give me a damn break. Will compensation go down in the future? Yes. Will I still have a job doing what I like to do? Yes. Is there anything else in medicine that I would rather be doing? No.

 

[sallyjoe]

512 applicants as of last week for 7 spots at my program. My director said they plan on interviewing 50.

As for all the 'doom and gloom'... give me a damn break. Will compensation go down in the future? Yes. Will I still have a job doing what I like to do? Yes. Is there anything else in medicine that I would rather be doing? No.

Frank Rizzo

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[me454555]

I think this poster is forgetting that PAs and NPs are going to drive down the number of primary care MD jobs. Did you read about the grocery stores that are putting urgent/primary care clinics in them? These little offices are staffed with PAs/NPs who charge a low price to take care of all the bread and butter cases that add nice easy income to your PCP practice. You will be stuck seeing the complicated, chronic patients that suck all of your office time/resources in exchange for the 10 dollar copay and 28 dollar insurance reimbursement. Medicare cuts (where the doom and gloom is coming from) are affecting all physicians but anesthesiologists are among the top of all physician-earners so we have much farther to fall. You take a FP or Pediatrician with $150,000 income and a 10 percent cut really hurts. You cut 10 percent from my $300-750,000 income and I can still pay my 10 dollar copay.

Also, you are forgetting that anesthesiologists can specialize in critical care and pain which are two fields with even higher earning potential and demand.

It doesn't matter how many PAs or NPs they put out there, the sheer volume of people needing PCPs will make it so that these physicians will always have a job. There are simply not enough people out there going into medicine or PA school to fill these positions. PCPs are already getting screwed and their medicare reimbursments are actually being raised. Thats where it seems our reimbursment cuts are going to so I don't think theirs will be cut anymore.

As for your point about seeing chronic complicated patients, well, yeah. This shift may happen to primary care but thats not the point of my post. I wasn't saying that being a PCP is an easy job or a particularly enticing one, just that there will always be work for these people in some form no matter where they go.

 

[TheTickets]

So with that many applicants, do most still get an anesthesiology position somewhere?

 

[Coastie]

?

 

[nimbus]

Bottom of the food chain?

Since when does primary care "bring in the big bucks?" As far as "admin's lap dogs", it may have been a while, but when I was working at a private hospital in the late 90's, the Anesthesia dept. was one of the very few who consistently MADE money for the hospital. Everyone else was in the red.

How did this hospital "make money" from the anestheisa dept? Did they employ the anesthesiologists and take half their collections? who would agree to work under those conditions? Where I work, our anesthesia dept costs the hospital thousands daily in the form of OB and trauma stipends.


Primary care docs refer patients to surgeons. My cousin, a urologist, sends nice gifts to his referring doctors every year. Surgeons operate and admit to hospitals. The imaging center he uses sent him a nice camcorder last year. Patients=revenue for hospitals. Anesthesia services what is brought through the doors. But we don't attract ANY patients by ourselves. Hospitals cringe when they lose a busy spine or bariatric surgeon. When they lose their best anesthesiologist, the administration does not notice at all.

 

[nimbus]

As long as there is a need for surgery there is a need for anesthesiology. So I feel very secure regarding job prospects. Actually there seems to be a shortage of anesthesiologists no?

Depends on what you seek.

If you are looking in areas with decent amenities (schools, shopping, arts, spousal job opportunities) and decent pay, then the answer is no. There is no shortage.

If you are free to live anywhere or are willing to work for $18/unit (soon to be $16/unit) on ASA 3-5 medicare patients, then yes there is still a shortage.