Northwestern ($) vs. Vanderbilt ($)

[cocovuitton]

Really torn because both schools are strong. Full tuition at both so only cost difference is slightly higher COL in Chicago, but I believe that is negligible. Decently sure I will pursue a competitive specialty, if i am fortunate enough. (plastics, derm, ortho, ENT, etc.) Both are equal distance from family. I believe equal prestige? I want to crush step, publish, and work w leaders in their respective fields. I have a casual interest in innovation and entrepreneurship.

Northwestern

Pros
-Chicago is a great city, diverse
-chill pre-clinical schedule, plenty of time to study step 1 material, low amt of mandatory things
-robust derm, ob-gyn, pm&r program (probably would not pursue last two)
-possibly interested in Kellogg MBA
-works with CHC, apparently largest free clinic in US
-most units are 1 month, one system at a time
-support system due to having a good friend as current student
-it seems they have more faculty, this is probably due to chicago being big, and idk if this is a plus, but it might be?

Cons
-did not have a great time at 2nd look, may have been tired? i don't want this to bias decision too much
-winters
-they have a required research project that you have to start first yr which bugs me bc i'd rather do research in the specialty i end up choosing
-would probably end up taking research yr, which i don't think is funded
-h/hp/p/f clinicals

Vanderbilt

Pros
-1/3 curriculum, leaves a lot of time for specialty-specific research, free 3rd/4th yr
-GREAT time at 2nd look, loved everyone i met, even though i was more tired than i was at NW
-P/F clinicals (huge)
-if i wanted to take research year, $30,000 stipend
-nice weather
-cheaper
-nashville apparently has healthcare startup activity(?)
-robust ENT, general surgery programs

Cons
-idk how to feel ab Nashville, but have heard praise
-M/W/F have 2 mandatory activities, T/Th usually free, unless there's anatomy in the morning
-wouldn't be able to study boards specific stuff as much because of accelerated curriculum
-exams are mostly 12 weeks apart, but include multiple systems (e.g. cardio, renal, pulm in one unit)


Hopefully I included everything. I have thought about it a lot. If anyone has any insight, i would really appreciate it!!!

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[Gilakend]

I think it's very close, but I would say Vandy unless you really really love Chicago.

The cons for Vandy are weaker than NW imo. Vandy average step 1 is 246 so I'm assuming students get along very well with board prep even in the accelerated curriculum, longer exams with more info is much more "step 1-like" than shorter exams over 1 topic (my school also has an accelerated curriculum and they are making this exact change to more material on exams for our M1 class). And it's cheaper!

As for NW, I think the clinical grades, you not liking the research project freshman year (and stating that research was a specific interest), and the non-funded research year are hard to look pass.

I know everyone says this, but you honestly can't go wrong with either. Congrats!

 

[cocovuitton]

I think it's very close, but I would say Vandy unless you really really love Chicago.

The cons for Vandy are weaker than NW imo. Vandy average step 1 is 246 so I'm assuming students get along very well with board prep even in the accelerated curriculum, longer exams with more info is much more "step 1-like" than shorter exams over 1 topic (my school also has an accelerated curriculum and they are making this exact change to more material on exams for our M1 class). And it's cheaper!

As for NW, I think the clinical grades, you not liking the research project freshman year (and stating that research was a specific interest), and the non-funded research year are hard to look pass.

I know everyone says this, but you honestly can't go wrong with either. Congrats!

this is exactly why i decided to post on here because sometimes one needs an outside voice to make sense of things!! i agree w all ur points. i think one thing i forgot to mention is that NW apparently has a stronger hospital system? but idk... also i am hesitant to believe average step scores bc i’ve heard they’re inaccurate, but WHO KNOWS w this stuff.. but full disclosure: i am leaning towards vandy a tiny bit, but there’s just so much i don’t know ab the medical world that could bite me later on (hence decision to post)

 

[Gilakend]

this is exactly why i decided to post on here because sometimes one needs an outside voice to make sense of things!! i agree w all ur points. i think one thing i forgot to mention is that NW apparently has a stronger hospital system? but idk... also i am hesitant to believe average step scores bc i’ve heard they’re inaccurate, but WHO KNOWS w this stuff.. but full disclosure: i am leaning towards vandy a tiny bit, but there’s just so much i don’t know ab the medical world that could bite me later on (hence decision to post)

I honestly don't know much at all about the hospital systems, so I'll let someone else comment on that!

 

[puahate]

Are you orm or urm? Yes this matters in my analysis.

 

[cocovuitton]

Are you orm or urm? Yes this matters in my analysis.

i am urm!!!!!

 

[puahate]

I talked to resident in a surgical subspecialty who went to Vanderbilt. Told me that Vandy itself is great and supportive but the surrounding area can be tough for urm. He was black and he recalled being called racial slurs by someone and weird patient interactions because of his race. This was not in 1900s this was in the 2010s or so.

This is an n=1 but doesn't sound abnormal considering the area.

i am urm!!!!!

 

[crimson-cat]

From your list I'd say Vandy. HMS and Michigan new curriculums are based off Vandy's, so you know they are doing something right. I actually wish HMS had kept Vandy's original format as the anatomy is more sensibly distributed and they have 2 flexible days per week. The mandatory classes can actually be nice to keep you honest and make sure you're not stress cramming around an exam since your forced to be on top of things. The university also seems to be really innovative in terms of addressing racial disparities and bias ,health tech (Nashville is an impressive little health startup hub and Owen's MBA is very healthcare centric), and mixing rural and urban care since Vandy has partners all over the state.

As far as the above comment goes, there is sadly no city in which URMs won't encounter some number of bigoted patients and even faculty. Internally at least, Vandy seems to be taking this issue more seriously than anywhere else I have seen with bias training for all employees and a big diversity push led by Dr. Churchwell.

 

[cocovuitton]

I talked to resident in a surgical subspecialty who went to Vanderbilt. Told me that Vandy itself is great and supportive but the surrounding area can be tough for urm. He was black and he recalled being called racial slurs by someone and weird patient interactions because of his race. This was not in 1900s this was in the 2010s or so.

This is an n=1 but doesn't sound abnormal considering the area.

this is a very fair thing to say, and something i will consider. i am a small female of an immigrant population that has a large presence in nashville, so maybe it wouldn’t be so bad? i can imagine being an african american male might be tough... props to ur resident friend

 

[puahate]

Yeah he's killing it. Keeps me motivated

this is a very fair thing to say, and something i will consider. i am a small female of an immigrant population that has a large presence in nashville, so maybe it wouldn’t be so bad? i can imagine being an african american male might be tough... props to ur resident friend

 

[cocovuitton]

From your list I'd say Vandy. HMS and Michigan new curriculums are based off Vandy's, so you know they are doing something right. I actually wish HMS had kept Vandy's original format as the anatomy is more sensibly distributed and they have 2 flexible days per week. The mandatory classes can actually be nice to keep you honest and make sure you're not stress cramming around an exam since your forced to be on top of things. The university also seems to be really innovative in terms of addressing racial disparities and bias ,health tech (Nashville is an impressive little health startup hub and Owen's MBA is very healthcare centric), and mixing rural and urban care since Vandy has partners all over the state.

As far as the above comment goes, there is sadly no city in which URMs won't encounter some number of bigoted patients and even faculty. Internally at least, Vandy seems to be taking this issue more seriously than anywhere else I have seen with bias training for all employees and a big diversity push led by Dr. Churchwell.

hey thanks for your reply, very valuable info. it sounds like you have the new curriculum... one of my concerns is that i want to have the time to study boards material and use outside resources, while keeping up w watching lectures, and then switch to a lecture focus closer to the exam (which is p/f anyway), i’m fine w not being involved in too many EC’s first year to do this. based on ur experience, is this doable in an accelerated curriculum? and in ur opinion as a med student, would derm being weak at vandy impede me in going down that route if i wanted to?

 

[pinecakes]

In my mind (I'm from Chicago, went to Vandy) the hospital systems are pretty comparable, that is, super highly regarded, nationally known, research $$, access to specialties, etc. Both are really ramping up recently and spreading out into the suburbs, both are pretty big conglomerates.

Nashville is fun, public transit is pretty useless, winters are short and NBD, great restaurants/bars/etc. Chicago is obvs Chicago and is much bigger, much busier. Great options! Congrats! Both schools are amazing, and both cities are amazing.

 

[crimson-cat]

hey thanks for your reply, very valuable info. it sounds like you have the new curriculum... one of my concerns is that i want to have the time to study boards material and use outside resources, while keeping up w watching lectures, and then switch to a lecture focus closer to the exam (which is p/f anyway), i’m fine w not being involved in too many EC’s first year to do this. based on ur experience, is this doable in an accelerated curriculum? and in ur opinion as a med student, would derm being weak at vandy impede me in going down that route if i wanted to?

I can't speak for Vandy, but it's definitely possible at my school to use outside material (and I primarily due). Since you won't have 5 hours/day of mandatory class I imagine it be even easier to use outside stuff. From what I've seen it seems like the accelerated courses actually may be more in line with board material than traditional curriculum since they don't have time to add in a bunch of random minutiae. There's also evidence that the early clinical year boost board scores on average (Vandy published a paper where they said they saw a 12 point increase), since you have more real-life experiences to link to all the random facts you're about to absorb.

As far as derm goes I doubt it would truly matter where you go between the two institutions. NW seems more well regarded, but your matching will be more a product of your step score (Vandy's is very high), your research and networking (which Vandy gives you plenty of freedom to do in year 3), and how many slots your home program has (11 Vandy, 12 NW). Both institutions will get you where you want to go. Pick the one that seems more your style and you think you'd be happier at.

 

[papercutscissors]

Sounds like the pros of Vandy appeal to you more than the pros of Northwestern. Especially since you know you want to take a lot of time to do research in a competitive specialty, Vandy's curriculum is much better suited for that. The weather is icing on the cake!

 

[kgamon8]

The cons for Vandy don’t seem that bad at all. Nashville is a great city, I wouldn’t let that deter you. Plus the weather is so so nice!

 

[#thriving]

Curious as to what you ended up deciding...?

 

[cocovuitton]

Curious as to what you ended up deciding...?

ending up deciding on vanderbilt... this discussion helped me feel much more confident! it’s always scary to make decisions when u don’t know what u don’t know... that’s why i love hearing opinions

with that being said, just got off the WL at duke.. so now i have another decision to make. waiting on a fin aid offer

 

[camnewton1]

Congrats on duke. I’d still stick with vandy unless duke comes through with a lot of $. Unless you absolutely Duke way more than the others

 

[cocovuitton]

Congrats on duke. I’d still stick with vandy unless duke comes through with a lot of $. Unless you absolutely Duke way more than the others

that is what i am thinking as well, they'd have to at least match... i don't know if duke is a school that warrants accepting more debt? honestly i don't know much about it... they historically have very little WL movement so when i heard i was on the WL i had written it off as a soft R.. but they do have a similar curriculum to vandy

 

[Mr. Game & Watch]

Glad you ended up going with Vandy. Seems like you made the right choice, and although second look isn't too significant of a factor, having a poor time during Northwestern's was only further confirmation for you.

In terms of Duke, a good friend of mine goes there and loves it, but I'd take Vandy if the price difference is significant to you plus Nashville > Durham.

I wish you all the best! See you on the other side.

 

[#thriving]

ending up deciding on vanderbilt... this discussion helped me feel much more confident! it’s always scary to make decisions when u don’t know what u don’t know... that’s why i love hearing opinions

with that being said, just got off the WL at duke.. so now i have another decision to make. waiting on a fin aid offer

Congrats! I think we met at northwestern second look so sad we won’t be classmates but happy you came to the best decision for you! Also agree with others that duke would need to match aid to make it something to consider.