Nontraditional Student - Aiming for Ortho, Need Guidance

[bonbon89]

Hey guys and gals, this is my first post on SDN but I've been lurking the forum for nearly 10 years now.

Over that time period I've fallen off the path to medicine, worked in finance (mainly mortgage banking) and headed straight back to medicine after I realized that I don't care much for money. I put in the work, earned a very respectable score on my MCAT and and an acceptance letter from LECOM.

After some personal reflection I realize that Orthopedic Surgery would be a good fit for me considering the level of interaction I would have with patients, the teamwork involved, and the fast/encouraging recoveries you get to witness. I also feel that if, for any reason, I could not achieve this goal that there are many other promising and fulfilling careers in the field of surgery. Shoot for the moon, and you'll always land among the stars.

With that being said, I feel as though I'm at a disadvantage in a lot of different ways. It has been years since I shadowed anyone or volunteered, and I don't have any research papers I can reference in an interview or my CV. Step 1 and Classroom performance is vital to earn a top residency, of course, but I don't really have any way to improve the 'human' component of my portfolio.

I'm attending LECOM @ Seton Hill and there's no student organization for Orthopedic Surgery, no official Honors Program, and the Program Director for LECOM's Ortho Residency is In Lake Erie.

At this point I'm not sure what I can do to really start to stand out, show my commitment to the field, and be part of a community that will help develop myself as a doctor. Can any of your provide some sage advice?

Any tips are appreciated - as of right now my plan is to get into contact with LECOM's Ortho Director and ask for advice, as well as to push for a summer research opportunity at some colleges that I have connections with.

Cheers to everyone and congrats to all the first years

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[QueenJames]

To be quite honest bro...

You REALLY should have gone to a MD program.

Other than that... it's the same recipe everywhere... KILL STEP 1... Get as much Research as you can get published... Get the Letters and get the connections and right people to vouch for you... and rotate at those spots...

and MAYBEEEE... You'll have a shot.

Ortho is damn near god level for any MD alone ...

which means it's NEAR FRICKIN' DESTINY for a DO to do ortho.

I hope you get it brotha!

 

[DNC127]

Hey guys and gals, this is my first post on SDN but I've been lurking the forum for nearly 10 years now.

Over that time period I've fallen off the path to medicine, worked in finance (mainly mortgage banking) and headed straight back to medicine after I realized that I don't care much for money. I put in the work, earned a very respectable score on my MCAT and and an acceptance letter from LECOM.

After some personal reflection I realize that Orthopedic Surgery would be a good fit for me considering the level of interaction I would have with patients, the teamwork involved, and the fast/encouraging recoveries you get to witness. I also feel that if, for any reason, I could not achieve this goal that there are many other promising and fulfilling careers in the field of surgery. Shoot for the moon, and you'll always land among the stars.

With that being said, I feel as though I'm at a disadvantage in a lot of different ways. It has been years since I shadowed anyone or volunteered, and I don't have any research papers I can reference in an interview or my CV. Step 1 and Classroom performance is vital to earn a top residency, of course, but I don't really have any way to improve the 'human' component of my portfolio.

I'm attending LECOM @ Seton Hill and there's no student organization for Orthopedic Surgery, no official Honors Program, and the Program Director for LECOM's Ortho Residency is In Lake Erie.

At this point I'm not sure what I can do to really start to stand out, show my commitment to the field, and be part of a community that will help develop myself as a doctor. Can any of your provide some sage advice?

Any tips are appreciated - as of right now my plan is to get into contact with LECOM's Ortho Director and ask for advice, as well as to push for a summer research opportunity at some colleges that I have connections with.

Cheers to everyone and congrats to all the first years

I would recommend realizing you most likely wont get ortho as a DO after the merger, or try and get into an MD school. Competition is only getting worse and when you apply there wont be many DO friendly ortho places left.

 

[WorldChanger36]

Its the same old song..... You will not be competitive for ortho as a DO student. I recommend you be super sure you know you want ortho. There is still a vast world of medicine still wide open for DOs to match into.

 

[Meekor]

First, like everyone said... should’ve gone MD if you wanted Ortho. You’ll be hard pressed for find DO friendly ortho programs in 2022.

Second, why ortho? Your reasons for it are not convincing. It took me A better part of a decade working in three different specialties and medical school to realize I can’t live without surgery. So why ortho, and why not medicine?

 

[W19]

First, like everyone said... should’ve gone MD if you wanted Ortho. You’ll be hard pressed for find DO friendly ortho programs in 2022.

Second, why ortho? Your reasons for it are not convincing. It took me A better part of a decade working in three different specialties and medical school to realize I can’t live without surgery. So why ortho, and why not medicine?

I don't see why not if former DO programs still have the same directors..

What was the purpose of the merger? What will DO students gain from it?

 

[Meekor]

I don't see why not if former DO programs still have the same directors..

What was the purpose of the merger? What will DO students gain from it?

From what I’ve heard on the ortho side is that those in the NRMP have either split their spots or taken only MDs. On the gen surg side those that have switched over have taken MDs or split. Who the program director is has not seemed to have any effect on who was interview or ranked at those programs. The purpose of the merger was to standardize post graduate training for everyone and unify residency requirements. Second it was to allow DOs to continue applying for ACGME fellowships. DOs gain fellowship opportunities but lose a safety net of program and the ability to match into competitive specialties and subspecialities.

For someone whose been on these forums all over quite a bit I’m surprised you’re still asking about the point of the merger.

 

[W19]

From what I’ve heard on the ortho side is that those in the NRMP have either split their spots or taken only MDs. On the gen surg side those that have switched over have taken MDs or split. Who the program director is has not seemed to have any effect on who was interview or ranked at those programs. The purpose of the merger was to standardize post graduate training for everyone and unify residency requirements. Second it was to allow DOs to continue applying for ACGME fellowships. DOs gain fellowship opportunities but lose a safety net of program and the ability to match into competitive specialties and subspecialities.

For someone whose been on these forums all over quite a bit I’m surprised you’re still asking about the point of the merger.

It was a rhetorical question... because DO has less to gain from the merger IMO.

 

[DNC127]

I don't see why not if former DO programs still have the same directors..

What was the purpose of the merger? What will DO students gain from it?

Even if all the PDs only take DOs and no MDs, as of now only 15 of 40ish ortho programs have recieved accredidation. Not good odds. That basically means there can be one ortho match per school if that.

 

[Meekor]

Even if all the PDs only take DOs and no MDs, as of now only 15 of 40ish ortho programs have recieved accredidation. Not good odds. That basically means there can be one ortho match per school if that.

Same story with gen surg, about 20 I think have gotten it, even with them split it’s about 1-2 per school with all than random branch campuses and new schools that seem to pop up overnight

 

[IntheClouds4ever]

Shoot for the moon, and you'll always land among the stars.

Not the best quote for residencies in medicine. You definitely need a realistic fall back plan or you'll land among those scrambling in the SOAP after not matching to any ortho programs.

-- you'll need to diversify your application and PS to show other fields of medicine that you actually want to be there.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Same story with gen surg, about 20 I think have gotten it, even with them split it’s about 1-2 per school with all than random branch campuses and new schools that seem to pop up overnight

Out of what, like 43 AOA programs? Geez... figure it out people and get accreditation.

 

[Meekor]

Out of what, like 43 AOA programs? Geez... figure it out people and get accreditation.

No. Out of about 55-58 when they originally got started. There were 48 AOA-only programs on ERAS when I applied last year still. So it’s actually really bad. Also if you went to some of these AOA programs... you’d understand why they’re struggling with accreditation.

 

[hbslax4]

No. Out of about 55-58 when they originally got started. There were 48 AOA-only programs on ERAS when I applied last year still. So it’s actually really bad. Also if you went to some of these AOA programs... you’d understand why they’re struggling with accreditation.

Don’t think there were ever 55 AOA ortho programs. I know only 2 have closed down so far. And by closed, I mean not taking any more residents but allowing current residents to finish their training.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

No. Out of about 55-58 when they originally got started. There were 48 AOA-only programs on ERAS when I applied last year still. So it’s actually really bad. Also if you went to some of these AOA programs... you’d understand why they’re struggling with accreditation.

Yeah I remember visiting some websites that said their chiefs graduated with ~800 cases, just barely scraping past the requirement. Made me shake my head.

Praise be our home program already has it.

 

[Meekor]

Don’t think there were ever 55 AOA ortho programs. I know only 2 have closed down so far. And by closed, I mean not taking any more residents but allowing current residents to finish their training.

There were about 57 gen surg, I’m not talking about ortho.. On the GS side 5-6 have closed. Either hospital closed, no longer pursuing accreditation or other factors. Just off the top of my head: York hospital, conemaugh, affinity, suburban, arrowhead. That’s 5 right here.

 

[hbslax4]

There were about 57 gen surg, I’m not talking about ortho.. On the GS side 5-6 have closed. Either hospital closed, no longer pursuing accreditation or other factors. Just off the top of my head: York hospital, conemaugh, affinity, suburban, arrowhead. That’s 5 right here.

Gotcha. Thought you were talking about ortho.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

There were about 57 gen surg, I’m not talking about ortho.. On the GS side 5-6 have closed. Either hospital closed, no longer pursuing accreditation or other factors. Just off the top of my head: York hospital, conemaugh, affinity, suburban, arrowhead. That’s 5 right here.

I think arrowhead just merged with their pre-existing ACGME program.

 

[Meekor]

I think arrowhead just merged with their pre-existing ACGME program.

So did conemaugh, but I count those as “closed” because they no longer independentally match as a separate program.

 

[bonbon89]

I have to admit this is a little frustrating because I don't seem to be getting a lot of advice on how to flesh out my portfolio - just a lot of people telling me I shouldn't even bother setting my sights that high. Thanks to QueenJames though, I'm a great test-taker so I'll be setting my sights on 240+ at least.

From what I've seen the most important factors regarding matching include your board scores, grades, rotation performance, and in general your connections/interpersonal skills.

I've never heard of anyone getting a rejection just because they're D.O. - in fact, someone matched from my school just last year.

It's a little confusing/irritating to get so many 'should've gone M.D.' posts - Yeah, great, thanks.

I understand why some of you are telling me to 'make sure that I want it' - you're right, I'm not 100% yet but I plan on making connections and talking to my colleagues/professors to solidify my decision. Until then, I plan on making myself the most competitive D.O. Candidate possible, and that's the area in which I'd like advice.

I won't be applying to any sort of residency for a while, and I understand my opinions will likely change over and over. However, I've been drawn to surgery all my life and I know this is going to be an uphill battle.

 

[IntheClouds4ever]

I have to admit this is a little frustrating because I don't seem to be getting a lot of advice on how to flesh out my portfolio - just a lot of people telling me I shouldn't even bother setting my sights that high. Thanks to QueenJames though, I'm a great test-taker so I'll be setting my sights on 240+ at least.

From what I've seen the most important factors regarding matching include your board scores, grades, rotation performance, and in general your connections/interpersonal skills.

I've never heard of anyone getting a rejection just because they're D.O. - in fact, someone matched from my school just last year.

It's a little confusing/irritating to get so many 'should've gone M.D.' posts - Yeah, great, thanks.

I understand why some of you are telling me to 'make sure that I want it' - you're right, I'm not 100% yet but I plan on making connections and talking to my colleagues/professors to solidify my decision. Until then, I plan on making myself the most competitive D.O. Candidate possible, and that's the area in which I'd like advice.

I won't be applying to any sort of residency for a while, and I understand my opinions will likely change over and over. However, I've been drawn to surgery all my life and I know this is going to be an uphill battle.

Umm, the formula is simple.. straight A’s, 250+ Step, multiple research pubs, LOR’s then +/- left testicle/ovary :rollseyes:

FYI- the reason you’re getting flak is the majority of first years want to do surgery and ortho. After 1st semester a 1/4 will drop off. Another 1/4 will drop off going into boards and then the next 1/4 will drop off after boards. There isn’t a magic way to pad an app.. it’s all very well known and at this stage in the game it’s realizing the plan is simple but in reality it’s a marathon and there isn’t any magic way to make it easy. ‘I want to be a Lebron James, where do I start?’ - shooting baskets is a good place

 

[DrMcLovin]

I have to admit this is a little frustrating because I don't seem to be getting a lot of advice on how to flesh out my portfolio - just a lot of people telling me I shouldn't even bother setting my sights that high. Thanks to QueenJames though, I'm a great test-taker so I'll be setting my sights on 240+ at least.

From what I've seen the most important factors regarding matching include your board scores, grades, rotation performance, and in general your connections/interpersonal skills.

I've never heard of anyone getting a rejection just because they're D.O. - in fact, someone matched from my school just last year.

It's a little confusing/irritating to get so many 'should've gone M.D.' posts - Yeah, great, thanks.

I understand why some of you are telling me to 'make sure that I want it' - you're right, I'm not 100% yet but I plan on making connections and talking to my colleagues/professors to solidify my decision. Until then, I plan on making myself the most competitive D.O. Candidate possible, and that's the area in which I'd like advice.

I won't be applying to any sort of residency for a while, and I understand my opinions will likely change over and over. However, I've been drawn to surgery all my life and I know this is going to be an uphill battle.

Best advice I have is to get as many ortho research publications as you can in addition to high boards, grades, away rotations and LOR's. Research will be way more important once the merger is complete. Currently, you can land an AOA spot by having high boards, good grades, good away rotations and solid LOR's without much research but things are changing.

 

[DocWinter]

You always will have a shot so long as you have a very solid board score and all the other goodies such as clinical grades great letters of recommendation etc etc. And just because we have this merger does not mean that DO students are going to be automatically banished from all competitive specialties. The program directors that are DO will still be DO and probably still give preference to those applicants.

The greater question to me, is why do you really think you're going to want to do ortho as a non-traditional student? It's a long residency, a physically demanding residency, and the life afterwards is equally demanding. I would be hesitant as an incoming medical student to place a stamp on any specialty as a marriage without at least seeing a variety in 3rd year.

 

[hbslax4]

Generally, you’ve gotten a lot of negative and bad responses on here. DO’s will still be able to match ortho unless ACGME somehow replaces all the PD’s and faculty at the traditional DO programs with MDs. Seems a little extreme to me. It will become harder for the average DO applicant but still attainable for the top applicants.

You have the right mindset though, if you want to do ortho or other competitive specialties you need to start preparing early on. So good for you. Try to get connected with ortho research. I agree with one of the above posters; DO programs will now have to care about research since they will need residents who can put out papers.

Get good grades and LORs. Board scores are obviously important. I don’t think all the DO programs will be filled with MDs all the sudden but I also don’t think the old DO programs will be able to take the sub 600 COMLEX applicants anymore.

Good luck!

 

[BorntobeDO?]

4/700+ Ortho spots went to DO's in ACGME last year. Good luck.

 

[Lexdiamondz]

I have to admit this is a little frustrating because I don't seem to be getting a lot of advice on how to flesh out my portfolio - just a lot of people telling me I shouldn't even bother setting my sights that high. Thanks to QueenJames though, I'm a great test-taker so I'll be setting my sights on 240+ at least.

From what I've seen the most important factors regarding matching include your board scores, grades, rotation performance, and in general your connections/interpersonal skills.

I've never heard of anyone getting a rejection just because they're D.O. - in fact, someone matched from my school just last year.

It's a little confusing/irritating to get so many 'should've gone M.D.' posts - Yeah, great, thanks.

I understand why some of you are telling me to 'make sure that I want it' - you're right, I'm not 100% yet but I plan on making connections and talking to my colleagues/professors to solidify my decision. Until then, I plan on making myself the most competitive D.O. Candidate possible, and that's the area in which I'd like advice.

I won't be applying to any sort of residency for a while, and I understand my opinions will likely change over and over. However, I've been drawn to surgery all my life and I know this is going to be an uphill battle.

Bruh being a great test taker in medical school is irrelevant-pretty much everyone is and a 240 is ~70th percentile in a highly preselected pool. I’m not saying it’s impossible but given you couldn’t snag an M.D. acceptance for whatever reason I wouldn’t just assume you’re gonna rise to the top of the applicant pool when you were never there to begin with. Just being realistic.

Nevermind the fact that as of right now, the vast majority of ACGME Ortho PDs don’t even read applications from DOs at all regardless of score

 

[W19]

Bruh being a great test taker in medical school is irrelevant-pretty much everyone is and a 240 is ~70th percentile in a highly preselected pool. I’m not saying it’s impossible but given you couldn’t snag an M.D. acceptance for whatever reason I wouldn’t just assume you’re gonna rise to the top of the applicant pool when you were never there to begin with. Just being realistic.

Nevermind the fact that as of right now, the vast majority of ACGME Ortho PDs don’t even read applications from DOs at all regardless of score

Maybe it's time for a DO applicant to sue ACGME

 

[Meekor]

Maybe it's time for a DO applicant to sue ACGME

With what money? Grad plus loans?

 

[W19]

With what money? Grad plus loans?

 

[DarkHorizon]

You can get ortho, make sure to score high on boards, some research would be nice, you don't need any RCTs or something, a case series or two, even a well written case report with a poster will do. Key would still be your rotation. Scores and research will get your foot in the door, but you'll have to rock your rotation to secure a spot. That will not change, merger or no merger.

 

[gyngyn]

You can get ortho, make sure to score high on boards, some research would be nice, you don't need any RCTs or something, a case series or two, even a well written case report with a poster will do. Key would still be your rotation. Scores and research will get your foot in the door, but you'll have to rock your rotation to secure a spot. That will not change, merger or no merger.

In the most recent data from AAMC:
188 US (MD) Seniors failed to match in ortho.
-93 of these had a Step 1 score of 241 or better.
-68 had 5 or more publications.

 

[DarkHorizon]

In the most recent data from AAMC:
188 US (MD) Seniors failed to match in ortho.
-93 of these had a Step 1 score of 241 or better.
-68 had 5 or more publications.

5 research experiences or 5 publications? Also, what kind of publications? doubtful that most were involved in any level 1 studies.
Big difference there.

Also, cracking your traditional MD programs will be difficult, but your newly ACGME accredited DO programs will continue to favor DOs over MDs, given that DOs are good students (Boards/Grades/Research) and great rotators.

Edit: Just looked it up: Mean number of abstracts, presentations, and publications: 4.9. Pretty broad definition, you can put almost anything for presentation/abstract.

 

[gyngyn]

5 research experiences or 5 publications? Also, what kind of publications? doubtful that most were involved in any level 1 studies.
Big difference there.

Also, cracking your traditional MD programs will be difficult, but your newly ACGME accredited DO programs will continue to favor DOs over MDs, given that DOs are good students (Boards/Grades/Research) and great rotators.

It wasn't broken down, unfortunately.

 

[Lexdiamondz]

Maybe it's time for a DO applicant to sue ACGME

Also since when were ACGME PDs obligated to interview DOs?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Also since when were ACGME PDs obligated to interview DOs?

A specialty residency faculty member has said that it is a real possibility that former AOA programs will be sued if they do not take at least some MDs. If that is possible I see no reason that a DO could not sue ACGME programs for not being considered for residency on basis of degree after the merger when all medical students go to the same programs. All it would take is an audit of the application screens to see that many programs set the bar far higher for DOs than MDs. I’m thinking of someone like the person this year that applied plastics with a 270 and 15 publications and only got 3 interviews. You can easily make the case that the applicant is more qualified than other applicants they did interview.

It will probably never happen of course.

A more real scenario is at the very least, now that the residency process is combined, there shouldn’t be a way to filter out DO applications simply for being a DO (ie LCME filter). At least make someone put actual eyes on the app before throwing it in the trash. I’m not saying not filter for step scores or any of that, those are unbiased screens based on performance.

 

[NontradCA]

I've never heard of anyone getting a rejection just because they're D.O.



.

You’ve never heard this, but you’ve been lurking SDN for 10 years? lol.

 

[zero0]

5/10

 

[TheaterOfTheme]

Out of what, like 43 AOA programs? Geez... figure it out people and get accreditation.

We just had an ortho lecture from the PD (a DO) at Riverside University Health System and he disclosed some of his opinions on the merger process. The RUHS program will survive, but he mentioned most AOA Ortho won't make it through the process because of the narrow view of the ACGME on what constitutes a residency program. In essence, community hospitals don't make the cut for research requirements. Now I'm a big h8r of AOA and all, but I do think the ACGME requirements for research are not entirely necessary to produce competent physicians. I wish there were some work-arounds for community programs.

But in short, yes, DO going ortho is not an option I'd feel secure recommending to most. You really have to be a genius and find connections. Keep an open mind, OP. Surgery lifestyle sucks anyways.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Couldnt MD residencies have said no to DO students if the DO higher ups didnt comply with he merger? My understanding was this threat was on the table, but not openly discussed. Which would have been a disaster for DO students to lose access to those MD residencies, because there wasnt enough DO residencies to go around.

I don't see why not if former DO programs still have the same directors..

What was the purpose of the merger? What will DO students gain from it?

 

[W19]

@GypsyHummus

These threats were probably empty. Just a way to force AOA/COCA to go along with the merger...

 

[Spectreman]

Seriously, just start by going all in your first semester. Ignore the clubs and all that junk. If you utterly destroy your first semester then you’ll have plenty of time to delve in building your CV. Give yourself the first semester to get your feet wet.

 

[DrMcLovin]

Seriously, just start by going all in your first semester. Ignore the clubs and all that junk. If you utterly destroy your first semester then you’ll have plenty of time to delve in building your CV. Give yourself the first semester to get your feet wet.

I would take it a step further and not do clubs at all. Get involved in research and do well in class so you can kill boards. All the hardcore club presidents, including surgery, at my school ended up in FM, IM or EM...

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I would take it a step further and not do clubs at all. Get involved in research and do well in class so you can kill boards. All the hardcore club presidents, including surgery, at my school ended up in FM, IM or EM...

I can already see that trend. People get stuck in the pre-med mindset where clubs and ECs like that carry weight.

Getting the right residency is academic success, research, and having the right people like you. It’s amazing how many people don’t believe that.

 

[UTsksk]

Who cares about post merger crap that we can only speculate. I had 2 or 3 classmates match acgme ortho. They had great scores, top ranked and research. If you truly want ortho then be the top of your class and put in work. If seton hill doesn't have an ortho club then you should start one. Do research over the summer and through 2nd year. If you cant get exactly ortho research then try sports medicine so if ortho isnt looking good then switch to FM or PM&R and do sports after. When 4th year comes you'll need to do auditions.

 

[Goro]

I have to admit this is a little frustrating because I don't seem to be getting a lot of advice on how to flesh out my portfolio - just a lot of people telling me I shouldn't even bother setting my sights that high. Thanks to QueenJames though, I'm a great test-taker so I'll be setting my sights on 240+ at least.

From what I've seen the most important factors regarding matching include your board scores, grades, rotation performance, and in general your connections/interpersonal skills.

I've never heard of anyone getting a rejection just because they're D.O. - in fact, someone matched from my school just last year.

It's a little confusing/irritating to get so many 'should've gone M.D.' posts - Yeah, great, thanks.

I understand why some of you are telling me to 'make sure that I want it' - you're right, I'm not 100% yet but I plan on making connections and talking to my colleagues/professors to solidify my decision. Until then, I plan on making myself the most competitive D.O. Candidate possible, and that's the area in which I'd like advice.

I won't be applying to any sort of residency for a while, and I understand my opinions will likely change over and over. However, I've been drawn to surgery all my life and I know this is going to be an uphill battle.

Unfortunately, a massive % of PDs will either never, or seldom interview/rank DOs.

 

[DNC127]

I have to admit this is a little frustrating because I don't seem to be getting a lot of advice on how to flesh out my portfolio - just a lot of people telling me I shouldn't even bother setting my sights that high. Thanks to QueenJames though, I'm a great test-taker so I'll be setting my sights on 240+ at least.

From what I've seen the most important factors regarding matching include your board scores, grades, rotation performance, and in general your connections/interpersonal skills.

I've never heard of anyone getting a rejection just because they're D.O. - in fact, someone matched from my school just last year.

It's a little confusing/irritating to get so many 'should've gone M.D.' posts - Yeah, great, thanks.

I understand why some of you are telling me to 'make sure that I want it' - you're right, I'm not 100% yet but I plan on making connections and talking to my colleagues/professors to solidify my decision. Until then, I plan on making myself the most competitive D.O. Candidate possible, and that's the area in which I'd like advice.

I won't be applying to any sort of residency for a while, and I understand my opinions will likely change over and over. However, I've been drawn to surgery all my life and I know this is going to be an uphill battle.

Literally every bro coming into school wants ortho or surgery and then drop when they can't hang. Think you are the exception to the rule? Prove us wrong. Someone has to be the exception. Come in hott off the start and don't stop gunning man. I think 15 ish people said ortho at the start of M1 at my school. Its down to me and maybe a couple others. Get pubs (not easy to do at DO school), use anki or FC from the start and never stop (also not easy to do at a DO school with all the labs and OMM and crap you have to do throughout the week), and make sure you grind every day to be at the top of your classes. Plenty of "good test takers" aren't even taking USMLE at my school. Its a different ball game, and one day you will see that gettin 240+ isn't as easy as SDN makes it seem. Good luck, I hope you make it work!

 

[DokterMom]

Unfortunately, a massive % of PDs will either never, or seldom interview/rank DOs.

Maybe it's time for a DO applicant to sue ACGME

- On what grounds? Last time I checked, DO was not a protected class.

 

[DarkHorizon]

Unfortunately, a massive % of PDs will either never, or seldom interview/rank DOs.

While the n is very small (3), the DOs that I know that applied for the ACGME match and skipped the AOA match (despite having offered spots) all had 6-10 interviews. They were all great candidates with research, grades, and high board scores (248 was the lowest in step 1). They all matched.

While this is anecdotal, it is not as bleak if you’re a great candidate.

 

[Goro]

While the n is very small (3), the DOs that I know that applied for the ACGME match and skipped the AOA match (despite having offered spots) all had 6-10 interviews. They were all great candidates with research, grades, and high board scores (248 was the lowest in step 1). They all matched.

While this is anecdotal, it is not as bleak if you’re a great candidate.

This is at the level of Lotto winners. I don't want to dump on the successful candidates, but we are talking about only several out of maybe seven to eight thousand DO graduates.

Not everybody can be a superstar

 

[TheaterOfTheme]

- On what grounds? Last time I checked, DO was not a protected class.

If there is talk that former AOA residencies must interview and take MDs due to possible legal consequences, then by all means this should also apply the other way around. Its either we let things be, or make stupid requirements that go both ways.