“No worries about my $200k debt, I will just work at a nonprofit, make minimum payments and get PSLF” - said no one ever

[spacecowgirl]

I am just shocked* that this is how this appears to be panning out.

*not at all shocked

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[BidingMyTime]

Lol thanks for the shout out but I’m sitting at under $250k/making way more than that thank-you-very-much

Oh yeah, that is what I mean, *you* are making more more than the "at best" $125,000 and you know how to invest it.....but the students graduating today are not going to be making over $125,000, nor do most of them have any idea how to invest money (they will think buying a Tesla or other chick-magnet car is an "investment".)

 

[sakigt]

6 years ago my husband was giving me a bit of grief about not doing PSLF since I work for a hospital. But Im down to $55k with only 3 years left and I don't have to ask anyone about it

 

[El Trombopag]

My coworker just came to the realization that his past few years working night shift at the hospital probably won’t count towards his pslf time....7 on, 7 off - technically 0.9 FTE. Our hospital only calls 40 hrs a week ‘full time’, and it sounds like that’s the requirement for a qualifying payment.

Ouch

 

[JustFillIt]

nor do most of them have any idea how to invest money (they will think buying a Tesla or other chick-magnet car is an "investment".)

Haha love it!

Careful - you are going to conjure the intellectual wetzel pretzel Mcpickle the millennial.

 

[confettiflyer]

My coworker just came to the realization that his past few years working night shift at the hospital probably won’t count towards his pslf time....7 on, 7 off - technically 0.9 FTE. Our hospital only calls 40 hrs a week ‘full time’, and it sounds like that’s the requirement for a qualifying payment.

Ouch

I asked for a policy change at HR when I was not a 1.0 FTE when I explained the discrepancy in law and they carved an exception for me. Worth the ask.

 

[PharmtoCS]

My coworker just came to the realization that his past few years working night shift at the hospital probably won’t count towards his pslf time....7 on, 7 off - technically 0.9 FTE. Our hospital only calls 40 hrs a week ‘full time’, and it sounds like that’s the requirement for a qualifying payment.

Ouch

This is why it's incredibly risky to rely on PSLF. One undotted i or uncrossed t and you're disqualified.

 

[Mcpickle]

Haha love it!

Careful - you are going to conjure the intellectual wetzel pretzel Mcpickle the millennial.

You mad? Lol. Yeah sorry I’m smart enough to know bragging about doing a keg stand in your 30s especially on the internet is. Really cool. I know that was like a high school thing to brag about how fast you can deteriorate your liver.

 

[JustFillIt]

You mad? Lol. Yeah sorry I’m smart enough to know bragging about doing a keg stand in your 30s especially on the internet is. Really cool. I know that was like a high school thing to brag about how fast you can deteriorate your liver.

Awwww look it’s jelly...

 

[Mcpickle]

Awwww look it’s jelly...

Of a 35 year old guy who “brags” about himself on the internet. Yeah.

 

[JustFillIt]

Of a 35 year old guy who “brags” about himself on the internet. Yeah.

Haha cute! It keeps going... let’s keep watching it and see what happens next.

 

[Monsterdaddy]

My coworker just came to the realization that his past few years working night shift at the hospital probably won’t count towards his pslf time....7 on, 7 off - technically 0.9 FTE. Our hospital only calls 40 hrs a week ‘full time’, and it sounds like that’s the requirement for a qualifying payment.

Ouch

This is the definition of full-time employment:

"Full-time means working for one or more qualifying employers for the greater of: (1) An annual average of at least 30 hours per week or, for a contractual or employment period of at least 8 months, an average of 30 hours per week; or (2) Unless the qualifying employment is with two or more employers, the number of hours the employer considers full time."

The "greater of" part of the definition is a problem because of "(2) Unless the qualifying employment is with two or more employers, the number of hours the employer considers full time."

First suggestion by confettiflyer is the best one. Most HR departments don't care about FTE, if they see the government definition above they will probably go with the government requirement of 30 hrs per week. My HR department actually consulted the law department before finally agreeing to check "Full-Time" on my form.

Here is my suggestion if the above fails and it's simple but effective. Just work 1 hr with any other non-profit during the year and it doesn't even have to be in pharmacy. This voids the second part of the definition of full-time employment: "Unless the qualifying employment is with two or more employers"

So now you get your first employer to check "Part-Time" on your PSLF Employment Verification Form and list your average hours of 30+/week. The second employer fills out another form with "Part-Time" checked and 0.1+ hours/week. Requirement met!

(I suggest uploading both form to FedLoans at the same time so they are not confused.)

Technically, this should also help you if you work 30 hrs a week at one employer for half the year and then 30 hrs at another employer for the rest of the year. For circumstances like; you were let go, moved, etc.

 

[El Trombopag]

This is the definition of full-time employment:

"Full-time means working for one or more qualifying employers for the greater of: (1) An annual average of at least 30 hours per week or, for a contractual or employment period of at least 8 months, an average of 30 hours per week; or (2) Unless the qualifying employment is with two or more employers, the number of hours the employer considers full time."

The "greater of" part of the definition is a problem because of "(2) Unless the qualifying employment is with two or more employers, the number of hours the employer considers full time."

First suggestion by confettiflyer is the best one. Most HR departments don't care about FTE, if they see the government definition above they will probably go with the government requirement of 30 hrs per week. My HR department actually consulted the law department before finally agreeing to check "Full-Time" on my form.

Here is my suggestion if the above fails and it's simple but effective. Just work 1 hr with any other non-profit during the year and it doesn't even have to be in pharmacy. This voids the second part of the definition of full-time employment: "Unless the qualifying employment is with two or more employers"

So now you get your first employer to check "Part-Time" on your PSLF Employment Verification Form and list your average hours of 30+/week. The second employer fills out another form with "Part-Time" checked and 0.1+ hours/week. Requirement met!

(I suggest uploading both form to FedLoans at the same time so they are not confused.)

Technically, this should also help you if you work 30 hrs a week at one employer for half the year and then 30 hrs at another employer for the rest of the year. For circumstances like; you were let go, moved, etc.

I think that sounds correct. He’s moving to full time now so it’s all about his past 3-4 years at 0.9 FTE, one employer. Our hospital is real persnickety about part time vs full time labeling due to union language considerations.
I’m glad to have paid all mine off fast, may not have made the most financial sense but the peace of mind is pretty priceless.

 

[MrBonita]

I remember when I got accepted to a couple pharmacy schools. The public school cost 6000 a year while the private cost 20,000 a year. I thought being a pharmacists, I would be so rich it would not matter later. I made a bad choice and now I pay off my loans. Why should anyone else pay for me being an idiot.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

I remember when I got accepted to a couple pharmacy schools. The public school cost 6000 a year while the private cost 20,000 a year. I thought being a pharmacists, I would be so rich it would not matter later. I made a bad choice and now I pay off my loans. Why should anyone else pay for me being an idiot.

Not everyone thinks like you?

 

[Sine Cura]

Just from a public policy perspective, no one actually gives a crap about struggling HCPs with 200-300k debt or worse making even 80k/year. There clearly is no need for more dentists or pharmacists; it's the inadequate distribution that's the "problem" but too many grads solves that issue with sheer numbers

 

[mentos]

Just from a public policy perspective, no one actually gives a crap about struggling HCPs with 200-300k debt or worse making even 80k/year. There clearly is no need for more dentists or pharmacists; it's the inadequate distribution that's the "problem" but too many grads solves that issue with sheer numbers

No matter how much debt you have, people won't feel sorry for anyone making $50-$70/hr. The average person can't do basic math. You could have $1 million in student loans but as soon as they find out you make 6 figures, they'll call you rich.

 

[confettiflyer]

No matter how much debt you have, people won't feel sorry for anyone making $50-$70/hr. The average person can't do basic math. You could have $1 million in student loans but as soon as they find out you make 6 figures, they'll call you rich.

This is true, this is why the basis for pharmacists and other high paying HCPs participating in PSLF is the incomeebt ratio used. Even someone making $1M/yr as CEO of a non profit can participate so long as the debt is high enough such that the PAYE payment is < the 10yr fully amortized payment.

 

[JustFillIt]

This is true, this is why the basis for pharmacists and other high paying HCPs participating in PSLF is the incomeebt ratio used. Even someone making $1M/yr as CEO of a non profit can participate so long as the debt is high enough such that the PAYE payment is < the 10yr fully amortized payment.

Yup... I am sporting a healthy 180k loan and I have been using income based repayment since graduation. With a large litter of children my payments have been under 500/month since the start. I have never missed a payment and it’s a piece of cake. 15 more years to go until I get my first round of forgiveness.

I love Dave Ramsey, and I listen to his show almost daily.. but I have decided his baby steps just don’t work for me. I aggressively pay down all forms of my families debt except student loans. I have just decided that for the next 30 years (right up until retirement) I will be paying 10% of my discretionary. I almost look at it as just a paycut. Instead of 120k I make 115k or so (it’s not a full 10% because I claim lots of deductions).

I have decided the memories and general fun that I can enjoy by spending the 180k in the now doing fun things with my family is much more valuable than paying down a loan to the govt.

400- 500 bucks a month for the next 30 years? Sure I can do that... problem solved. I still have a 401k, and several investments that are knocking at the door of 100k. I just won’t use that money for student loans. I will do whatever I can to generally avoid student loans that I can. Do I fell bad about it? No not at all.

 

[confettiflyer]

Dave Ramsey is for yokels, people who have high income potential need to heed Ramit Sethi’s advice.

Basically, Ramsey tells you to cut back on dumb **** to save money. Sethi argues you need to find ways to boost your income and to double down on spending that makes your crotch tingle (figuratively, and that’s my wording)

 

[JustFillIt]

Dave Ramsey is for yokels, people who have high income potential need to heed Ramit Sethi’s advice.

Basically, Ramsey tells you to cut back on dumb **** to save money. Sethi argues you need to find ways to boost your income and to double down on spending that makes your crotch tingle (figuratively, and that’s my wording)

Oh yea... I get ya.. I buy all sorts of stuff to make my crotch tingle. Glad I’m not the only one!

 

[PharmlyDoc]

...or you can vote for Bernie Sanders for POTUS, and not have to worry about student loans.

 

[JustFillIt]

...or you can vote for Bernie Sanders for POTUS, and not have to worry about student loans.

I would rather pay my monthly amount....

 

[mentos]

...or you can vote for Bernie Sanders for POTUS, and not have to worry about student loans.

Where will this money come from?

 

[Dred Pirate]

Where will this money come from?

not to get overly policital (I am not a big Bernie fan) - but it would be raising taxes on the rich. Personally I think something needs to be done to keep college costs in check - forgiving student loans actually does the opposite (allows schools to even charge more). There are things that can be done to keep college costs in check - and I do beleive at the very minimum two years of community college should be free.

 

[chemphysicsinstructor]

Good luck getting the loan forgiveness program. If you do get it, you may get a really nasty 1099COD form from the IRS with the remaining loan balance becoming taxable income for the current tax year.

 

[Wickett]

not to get overly policital (I am not a big Bernie fan) - but it would be raising taxes on the rich. Personally I think something needs to be done to keep college costs in check - forgiving student loans actually does the opposite (allows schools to even charge more). There are things that can be done to keep college costs in check - and I do beleive at the very minimum two years of community college should be free.

I agree. The government needs to regulate public university tuition amounts somehow, as well as invest more heavily in public universities to lower cost. I think federal loans in principle help a lot of people better themselves that would otherwise be unable to afford college.

However, simply forgiving them and/or this continued cycle of handing out loans unchecked will just result in higher amounts of unsustainable loan debt.