Next steps?

[Medstudentquest]

What to do now?

So the list was screwed up during the match so it was never actually processed and never had a chance at matching.

I tried calling countless times to programs and for most could not get through and did not get a spot.

What do I do now? If nothing opens up before July, what do I do until Sept or so of the next year?

Just sit out? How do I explain this to programs?

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[tetris]

What happened to your ROL???

So you went through the scramble? If you're an AMG, speak to your Dean's office ASAP. Maybe they can make some calls for you.

 

[Medstudentquest]

What happened to your ROL???

So you went through the scramble? If you're an AMG, speak to your Dean's office ASAP. Maybe they can make some calls for you.

I applied for derm and didn't match for it, and when I did not match for derm, the prelim list was not activated. So I ended up with no prelim. The scramble was crazy and no I could not get a prelim spot there either.

I've spoken with my dean and written emails to all the PD's where I interviewed at to see if anything could open up and explained my situation. Everyone is like we are full, can't open a spot,etc. I will be meeting with my IM PD later this week but he's told me they are also full and can't open up spots.

 

[tetris]

Many programs require that you have a PGY-2 set up as a requirement for their prelim spots. So without derm or a backup, it might be hard. (although anything is hard at this point.)

 

[Medstudentquest]

Many programs require that you have a PGY-2 set up as a requirement for their prelim spots. So without derm or a backup, it might be hard. (although anything is hard at this point.)

no, not really. That wasn't the problem. it was just really hard to get through and i guess there were alot of applicants, so had no luck.

what should i do now? will it be looked upon badly to try to match next cycle if i can't find anything?

 

[gendoc]

Be patient. Between now and July, some positions will open up. You will need to be diligent and look for those openings. Let your deans' office and the PGY2 program know what is going on. They may help you in your search.
Join Find a Resident, monitor boards, do whatever you need to do to track down the spots and jump on them ASAP!

 

[tetris]

Be patient. Between now and July, some positions will open up. You will need to be diligent and look for those openings. Let your deans' office and the PGY2 program know what is going on. They may help you in your search.
Join Find a Resident, monitor boards, do whatever you need to do to track down the spots and jump on them ASAP!

How about randomly calling programs from now until July?

But how often should we call? Daily would annoy them. Weekly, we might miss an opening.

 

[Medstudentquest]

Be patient. Between now and July, some positions will open up. You will need to be diligent and look for those openings. Let your deans' office and the PGY2 program know what is going on. They may help you in your search.
Join Find a Resident, monitor boards, do whatever you need to do to track down the spots and jump on them ASAP!

I went to talk to my IM PD and he said the same thing. He says that obviously the scramble is very difficult and that competitiveness obviously is very high during that time. He mentioned that there are alot of good people that go into competitive specialties every year that don't match and shortly after that, they simply decide to go into something else. He mentioned that usually its about a month or so that spots begin opening up or shortly before July.

How often should I contact him to find out about positions? I am thinking about once a week, he said I could do it daily if I wanted, but I think that may be annoying. Thoughts?

 

[Medstudentquest]

How about randomly calling programs from now until July?

But how often should we call? Daily would annoy them. Weekly, we might miss an opening.

This is exactly one of the things I'm wondering. I've called/emailed programs but I usually only get through to the secretaries, who typically are curt and don't give you the time of day.

How often would it be acceptable to call/email? Also would it be best to talk to the PD or the secretaries?

The thing is that I know my school's PD but I don't know other school's PD's so it may be difficult/annoying to get to them.

 

[narcotics999]

There are 300+ programs; call them one by one?

The cell phone bill will mount.

This is exactly one of the things I'm wondering. I've called/emailed programs but I usually only get through to the secretaries, who typically are curt and don't give you the time of day.

How often would it be acceptable to call/email? Also would it be best to talk to the PD or the secretaries?

The thing is that I know my school's PD but I don't know other school's PD's so it may be difficult/annoying to get to them.

 

[tetris]

There are 300+ programs; call them one by one?

The cell phone bill will mount.

This is true too.

Yet every year there are stories of people doing just that - randomly calling and finding a needle in a haystack.

How do they do it? Sheer luck, I say.

Am I missing something? Can anyone else shed light on this?

 

[tkim]

So the list was screwed up during the match so it was never actually processed and never had a chance at matching.

Did ERAS screw up, or did you not certify your ROL?

 

[narcotics999]

did you put your preliminary programs in the primary list too?

I applied for derm and didn't match for it, and when I did not match for derm, the prelim list was not activated. So I ended up with no prelim. The scramble was crazy and no I could not get a prelim spot there either.

I've spoken with my dean and written emails to all the PD's where I interviewed at to see if anything could open up and explained my situation. Everyone is like we are full, can't open a spot,etc. I will be meeting with my IM PD later this week but he's told me they are also full and can't open up spots.

 

[Medstudentquest]

Did ERAS screw up, or did you not certify your ROL?

ERAS screwed up. It was 100% certified. Basically I was told too bad. They gave me contact info if I wanted to address this, but they said they would not rematch or anything. I've heard of mistakes being made before by NRMP.

Not sure I can do anything about this. Other than just really trying to find a decent spot before July.

 

[Medstudentquest]

did you put your preliminary programs in the primary list too?

No that was the problem. I called NRMP to ask about this and they told me what I had done was correct.

 

[narcotics999]

No that was the problem. I called NRMP to ask about this and they told me what I had done was correct.

You did or did not? I believe the correct one is one needs to put preliminary programs at the end of the primary ranking list, especially he/she is not very confident of the advanced match. Only by this way can a preliminary spot be grabbed once the advanced fails.

 

[Medstudentquest]

You did or did not? I believe the correct one is one needs to put preliminary programs at the end of the primary ranking list, especially he/she is not very confident of the advanced match. Only by this way can a preliminary spot be grabbed once the advanced fails.

Exactly! So I called NRMP to see how to exactly do this and I repeated to them what I did and what I was applying for. They had said that what I had done was correct, when in reality it wasn't.

 

[narcotics999]

Exactly! So I called NRMP to see how to exactly do this and I repeated to them what I did and what I was applying for. They had said that what I had done was correct, when in reality it wasn't.

Oh my goddess, I can feel your pain.

On my preliminary interview trail, I met a girl who was applying dermatology too. She is a graduate, doing some sorts of research in dermatology at UCSF. Apparently she hope the research can boost her chance. Since you did not match into dermatology this year anyway, that may be an option,especially if you think you are close.

 

[tkim]

ERAS screwed up. It was 100% certified. Basically I was told too bad. They gave me contact info if I wanted to address this, but they said they would not rematch or anything. I've heard of mistakes being made before by NRMP.

Not sure I can do anything about this. Other than just really trying to find a decent spot before July.

That really, really sucks. ERAS should let you go again for free next year and place some kind of explanation in your application as to why you did not match this year.

 

[Medstudentquest]

That really, really sucks. ERAS should let you go again for free next year and place some kind of explanation in your application as to why you did not match this year.

I asked if I could be rematched since they are the ones who told me that what I was doing was right. I agree. I don't know whether to address it with the person in charge or not. I mean can they really change the match results? I have no doubt that I would have gotten a prelim spot had my list gone through.

And even though I know they told me the wrong thing, can I realistically win here? I don't think anything will be changed.

I should ask though if I can apply for free. That is a good idea! And I'll apply to every single derm program out there. Do you think I should pursue that?

What specialty are you in btw? just curious!

 

[Medstudentquest]

Oh my goddess, I can feel your pain.

On my preliminary interview trail, I met a girl who was applying dermatology too. She is a graduate, doing some sorts of research in dermatology at UCSF. Apparently she hope the research can boost her chance. Since you did not match into dermatology this year anyway, that may be an option,especially if you think you are close.

Right, well the thing is that as usual, I had things all planned out for all the outcomes I expected. So if i didn't match in derm which is a possibility since so many people don't match the first time, was to do prelim year, then network or within my own school do a fellowship during the next year and hopefully get in after that. But not sure how to deal with this now since I did not expect at all to not match in a prelim.

When I got my email on monday, I kept looking at the message and kept thinking and saying to my husband, this can't be!! There has to be a mistake. And i kept thinking, was my list even used?! And my husband kept saying that it seemed as though the list was never really processed.

Sure enough that's what they did! Really frustrating.

The scramble was also a nightmare. I called countless times to my local programs, left messages, emailed, ERAS'ed things, and nothing. By the time I got through, spots were filled.

But I guess sometimes things happen for a reason. I keep hearing that spots open up and that it's likely that I 'd be able to get a spot before July. I am praying and hoping that will be the case. Things seem to usually work themselves out in the end.

 

[Law2Doc]

Exactly! So I called NRMP to see how to exactly do this and I repeated to them what I did and what I was applying for. They had said that what I had done was correct, when in reality it wasn't.

From reading your vague posts, it sounds like more of a communications problem between you and the NRMP folks, rather than a "screw up" (by NRMP, not ERAS, BTW). "Correct" depends on your goals. I know a LOT of people who didn't list prelims at the end of their list intentionally (i.e. they'd rather do a research year and apply again rather than try to interview during an internship), so not listing them also can be "correct". Did you not have any classmates or school admin folks who could advise you? A pretty good explanation of how to rank was on the ERAS and NRMP board on SDN as well. It appears that 20,000 people were able to muddle their way through the NRMP system without the issue you faced, so it just seems like there was some difficulty in verbal communications leading to how you entered your ROL, rather than a computer glitch.

At any rate, this will work out in the long run. When life knocks you down, you dust yourself off and come back stronger.

 

[PublicEnemy]

the NRMP website very clearly delineates that the only way to just match into a preliminary program is to put it on your primary rank list. the secondary or supplemental list does not get activated unless you actually match into an advanced program. the match algorithm runs through your entire primary list only. if you only list derm programs on your primary and don't match to one of them, you don't match an internship either no matter how many prelims you listed on a supplemental list. for this reason, people applying to very competitive things like derm, rads, rad onc etc often put a few prelims at the bottom of their primary list. this is discussed very thoroughly in many of the subspecialty forums.

i applied for radiology and was fortunate to match, but i chose not to put prelims on the bottom of my primary list because i didn't want to just match at a prelim as i was willing to do research for a year. however, i have friends who did not match rads, but listed a couple prelims at the very bottom of their primary list and managed to match into those internships.

from your previous posts it does not sound like the NRMP made a mistake or forgot to run your list. it sounds like there was a gap in your understanding of how the match actually works. the NRMP did not misguide you, the suggestions would be the same: list advanced derm positions on primary list, create supplemental lists for prelims. the what if i don't match a derm scenario should i list prelims at the bottom of my primary is not something the NRMP is going to go out of their way to suggest or tell you over the phone, but how it all works is described on the nrmp site.

im only saying this so you have a good understanding of how it works in case you have to do it again and for the benefit of others on this forum. as for now, i would suggest calling programs. i would also look into registering with various websites like:

Find A Resident: http://www.aamc.org/students/findaresident/
Resident Swap: http://www.residentswap.org/

just be on the look out and you'll find something. in the mean time, set up a research gig in case you don't find an internship.

think about it. the applications for next year are due in just about 5 months, thats it. how can you improve yourself in that time and during the next year, thats a question you need to ask and answer. im sure you will come across something very productive and if you stick to it you will make it so do not give up hope you just have to be very diligent now.

 

[Medstudentquest]

From reading your vague posts, it sounds like more of a communications problem between you and the NRMP folks, rather than a "screw up" (by NRMP, not ERAS, BTW). "Correct" depends on your goals. I know a LOT of people who didn't list prelims at the end of their list intentionally (i.e. they'd rather do a research year and apply again rather than try to interview during an internship), so not listing them also can be "correct". Did you not have any classmates or school admin folks who could advise you? A pretty good explanation of how to rank was on the ERAS and NRMP board on SDN as well. It appears that 20,000 people were able to muddle their way through the NRMP system without the issue you faced, so it just seems like there was some difficulty in verbal communications leading to how you entered your ROL, rather than a computer glitch.

At any rate, this will work out in the long run. When life knocks you down, you dust yourself off and come back stronger.

Potentially you may be right. There certainly was a mistunderstanding, but I certainly think there was a mistake on the part of the NRMP as far as them telling me something that was not correct when I asked them what I was trying to do. It's very unfortunate, because I likely would have gotten into my #1 choice.

I do agree that it will likely work itself out. I felt horrible when I got the results on Monday and was in disbelief. Again, derm's tough and I can understand that many times it takes more than one application cycle to get in, but I could not understand the whole prelim thing. I was very concerned of how it would look. I assume that it won't be the end of my career. One of the programs that I interviewed at for prelim even told me they'd be willing to give me an outside the match position for next year. At least that made me feel better.

One thing that worried me was that my PD said I'd be less competitive next year since I'd be a year out of med school. Is that the case? That seems pretty harsh. I would imagine that I'm not the only one who applies who a competitive specialty and doesn't get in the first time no?

 

[Medstudentquest]

the NRMP website very clearly delineates that the only way to just match into a preliminary program is to put it on your primary rank list. the secondary or supplemental list does not get activated unless you actually match into an advanced program. the match algorithm runs through your entire primary list only. if you only list derm programs on your primary and don't match to one of them, you don't match an internship either no matter how many prelims you listed on a supplemental list. for this reason, people applying to very competitive things like derm, rads, rad onc etc often put a few prelims at the bottom of their primary list. this is discussed very thoroughly in many of the subspecialty forums.

i applied for radiology and was fortunate to match, but i chose not to put prelims on the bottom of my primary list because i didn't want to just match at a prelim as i was willing to do research for a year. however, i have friends who did not match rads, but listed a couple prelims at the very bottom of their primary list and managed to match into those internships.

from your previous posts it does not sound like the NRMP made a mistake or forgot to run your list. it sounds like there was a gap in your understanding of how the match actually works. the NRMP did not misguide you, the suggestions would be the same: list advanced derm positions on primary list, create supplemental lists for prelims. the what if i don't match a derm scenario should i list prelims at the bottom of my primary is not something the NRMP is going to go out of their way to suggest or tell you over the phone, but how it all works is described on the nrmp site.

im only saying this so you have a good understanding of how it works in case you have to do it again and for the benefit of others on this forum. as for now, i would suggest calling programs. i would also look into registering with various websites like:

Find A Resident: http://www.aamc.org/students/findaresident/
Resident Swap: http://www.residentswap.org/

just be on the look out and you'll find something. in the mean time, set up a research gig in case you don't find an internship.

think about it. the applications for next year are due in just about 5 months, thats it. how can you improve yourself in that time and during the next year, thats a question you need to ask and answer. im sure you will come across something very productive and if you stick to it you will make it so do not give up hope you just have to be very diligent now.

I understand what you are saying but I do think there was an unfortunate lack of appropriate directions when I called. Regardless, yes I do realize that the applications for next cycle are due in a few months and I can certainly use the summer to rock step 2, maybe continue research, maybe do some rotations and connect with people, etc. I will certainly continue looking for internships as well and will be very proactive in this respect. M PD in IM has told e he'll forward me any positions he gets and I am planning on emailing him about twice a week.