- Joined
- Dec 23, 2009
- Messages
- 21
- Reaction score
- 0
You should be able to use it. Contact the school or local VA they should be able to help you set up the payments. You are active duty sailor so use your benefits.
http://gibill.va.gov/
New G.I. Bill and HSCP
- Thread starter Lodo
- Start date
You should be able to use it. Contact the school or local VA they should be able to help you set up the payments. You are active duty sailor so use your benefits.
http://gibill.va.gov/
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2008
- Messages
- 1,095
- Reaction score
- 20
If you have no prior service, you probably won't be eligible for it yet. You have to be on AD for a certain period of time before it activates and you have to have a certain amount of retention. Talk to the VA first.
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2007
- Messages
- 660
- Reaction score
- 4
It's a minimum continuous 90 days AD to receive benefits for the post 9/11 GI Bill.
So what all benefits to you get to take advantage of? Is it just covering your tuition? If so, how much?
I am previous military(5 years), considering HSCP. I have already used 7 months of my benefits for undergrad, but now I am wondering if I should save the rest of my gi bill for Med school? And just pay out of pocket for the next two years of undergrad.
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2007
- Messages
- 660
- Reaction score
- 4
If you're active-duty (i.e. HSCP) then it's just tuition and it's variable by state. If you're past military then you get tuition, books, and Housing allowance. It's all up on the post 9/11 GI Bill website on the VA page. It's dependent on your time in and state of residence.
Yea, I am guessing that they aren't going to cover the entire 15,000 a year tuition, so how do they figure out the amount they pay for Med school?
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2006
- Messages
- 434
- Reaction score
- 20
I believe they just pay you the same rate they pay to undergraduate students in that particular state.
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2007
- Messages
- 660
- Reaction score
- 4
It's the highest in-state tuition rate for the state where you're attending school. For instance, it's like 11,500ish here in Kentucky where I attend PER SEMESTER. My tuition is almost identical for that number. So basically I just have to pay for fees, books and other school-related costs. It comes out to covering about 2/3's of my cost of attendance.
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2009
- Messages
- 204
- Reaction score
- 2
Smills91,
When did you apply for the post 9/11 GI Bill? Did you wait until after 90 active to apply and then to use during the last 3 years of school?
When did you apply for the post 9/11 GI Bill? Did you wait until after 90 active to apply and then to use during the last 3 years of school?
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2007
- Messages
- 660
- Reaction score
- 4
I applied August of last year. It took them all the way until April to process my award. Some their fault, some mine. But they paid it. So I had a year in with the HSCP when I got my award for my 2nd year. I'll be getting my 3rd year award here within the next month.
This was posted a while ago, but I'm wondering if milfamily ever got this issue resolved, or if there is anyone else who qualifies and is attempting to do both HPSP (not HCSP) and the Post 9/11 GI bill.
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2007
- Messages
- 660
- Reaction score
- 4
Unless you're prior military, I do not believe the GI Bill will work for those on the HPSP.
- Joined
- May 27, 2011
- Messages
- 8
- Reaction score
- 2
Just asked a recruiter today if I could use the G.I Bill along with the HSCP during dental school. His response, "hahahahahah.............no, but that would be a good deal". Is this accurate? From this and other threads I've been gathering that it seems you can. Any one currently in dental school with the HSCP and using the G.I Bill to cover some of the tuition cost, without any prior military experience?
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2007
- Messages
- 660
- Reaction score
- 4
He's wrong. You can. I am doing it and a junior at my school is currently using it too.
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2011
- Messages
- 11
- Reaction score
- 0
I spoke with my recruiter today and he also said you can't use the GI Bill with HSCP. Is this new? Why the confusion? Can you point me to a document or website where this is confirmed - so that I can send it to my recruiter? Does it only apply if you have military service prior to dental school? Thanks!
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2007
- Messages
- 660
- Reaction score
- 4
I guess all the tens of thousands of dollars awarded to me via the GI Bill were a figment of my imagination then...he's just flat out wrong. I've done it. You apply for it during year 1 of dental school for your last 3 years. All the information can be found on the VA website. Specifics for your school can be handled through your school's VA rep that they should have at the financial aid office. I'm not alone here either. There is a junior student at my school on HSCP who also has received the GI Bill too.
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2009
- Messages
- 215
- Reaction score
- 8
Anyone have any updates on this issue? I'm hoping to get in to the HSCP program last minute for this upcoming year (my recruiter claims I'll hear a decision this week), and am very curious if anyone else has been successful or unsuccessful at getting the post-911 GI Bill for dental school in conjunction with HSCP. Many thanks to all those who have posted previously, so far it sounds like a bit of a mixed bag but very hopeful if not probable that it can be done.
The Letter from the VA reads:
You have insufficient qualifying active duty service. Periods of basic or skills training do not count as active duty for those claimants serving 24 months or less on active duty and therefore must be deducted from qualifying service periods. Since you are still under skill training, you are not yet eligible for Chapter 33.
Yet, the HSCP documents state that you are eligible for everything that active duty military entails. Has anyone had to appeal the decision based on this reason?
You have insufficient qualifying active duty service. Periods of basic or skills training do not count as active duty for those claimants serving 24 months or less on active duty and therefore must be deducted from qualifying service periods. Since you are still under skill training, you are not yet eligible for Chapter 33.
Yet, the HSCP documents state that you are eligible for everything that active duty military entails. Has anyone had to appeal the decision based on this reason?
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2009
- Messages
- 215
- Reaction score
- 8
Just curious if anyone has an update on this? I have also been initially denied Chapter 33 benefits. My CO is looking into it, and I may end up formerly appealing--haven't made that decision yet. The reason for denial was similar to the above, something to the effect of "DOD Navy informed us that your active duty status in a pre-commissioning program does not qualify for chapter 33 benefits." I known a few people at my school (no previous service) who are using the GI BIll with HSCP, so I'm just a bit confused as to why some of us are getting denied while others aren't.
Anyone have any info on this? Or on the specific policy which denies folks in pre-commisioning programs? Is this a recent policy change or has it always been in place and some HSCPers are leaking through?
I thoroughly read through the new HSCP manual when I enlisted, as well as my other enlistment documents, and I don't recall anything in there that mentions we are not eligible for GI Bill in school.
Anyone have any info on this? Or on the specific policy which denies folks in pre-commisioning programs? Is this a recent policy change or has it always been in place and some HSCPers are leaking through?
I thoroughly read through the new HSCP manual when I enlisted, as well as my other enlistment documents, and I don't recall anything in there that mentions we are not eligible for GI Bill in school.
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2008
- Messages
- 102
- Reaction score
- 5
This is interesting
Post 9/11 GI Bill eligibility is simple
serve at least 90 aggregate days on active duty after 9/10/2001...simple as that
at least 36 months you get 100%
At least 90 days<6 months you get 40%
anything inbetween 50-90%
ROTC, Academy graduates your payback time does not count toward this aggregate time.
HPSP/HSCP; Post 9/11 gi bill only applies if you did active duty for some period of time.
So if you never did active or qualifying reserve time you wont have any time to apply toward credit of eligibility.
The VA uses your DD 214 to assess how much aggregate time you did on active duty after 9/10/2001
DD 214 is what the VA uses to assess your time total spent on active duty.
If your DD 214 says 36 months you get 100%
If your DD 214 says 2 months you get 0%
HSCP - yes you can use your gi bill along with HSCP however all of them were prior enlisted or did active duty time in the past.
HPSP - you can get gi bill but since your school is paid 100% if you are smart you would save the gi bill for future use ie specialty etc. You can try to double dip but i am pretty confident you will be on the losing end.
http://www.gibill.va.gov/documents/pamphlets/ch33_pamphlet.pdf
Finally, if you don't know what a DD 214 is then that means you aren't eligible because you get a DD 214 when you end your time in service.....and you can't leave the military without one.
Post 9/11 GI Bill eligibility is simple
serve at least 90 aggregate days on active duty after 9/10/2001...simple as that
at least 36 months you get 100%
At least 90 days<6 months you get 40%
anything inbetween 50-90%
ROTC, Academy graduates your payback time does not count toward this aggregate time.
HPSP/HSCP; Post 9/11 gi bill only applies if you did active duty for some period of time.
So if you never did active or qualifying reserve time you wont have any time to apply toward credit of eligibility.
The VA uses your DD 214 to assess how much aggregate time you did on active duty after 9/10/2001
DD 214 is what the VA uses to assess your time total spent on active duty.
If your DD 214 says 36 months you get 100%
If your DD 214 says 2 months you get 0%
HSCP - yes you can use your gi bill along with HSCP however all of them were prior enlisted or did active duty time in the past.
HPSP - you can get gi bill but since your school is paid 100% if you are smart you would save the gi bill for future use ie specialty etc. You can try to double dip but i am pretty confident you will be on the losing end.
http://www.gibill.va.gov/documents/pamphlets/ch33_pamphlet.pdf
Finally, if you don't know what a DD 214 is then that means you aren't eligible because you get a DD 214 when you end your time in service.....and you can't leave the military without one.
I sent in a "Letter of disagreement," and got a second denial letter saying: "...we went to Department of Defense, Point of Contact (POC) for verification, GI Bill Programs Branch (PERS-314), Navy Personal [sic] Command, replied stating that you are in a pre-commissioning program, you are not considered on active duty as of yet."
I'm not sure when the amendment that included this happened, or if it was always like this, why it is just being enforced now, but I'm similarly confused, because I personally know of somebody without prior service getting a post 9/11 GI bill payout earlier this year!
I'm not sure when the amendment that included this happened, or if it was always like this, why it is just being enforced now, but I'm similarly confused, because I personally know of somebody without prior service getting a post 9/11 GI bill payout earlier this year!
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2009
- Messages
- 215
- Reaction score
- 8
Thanks for the reply. Is there any way you would have access, or could provide the policy which states HSCP are not eligible for GI Bill? I would really appreciate it if so. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I've just done a lot of research on this [or tried to at least] and never ran across any documentation to that effect.
Either way I'm still more than happy with HSCP--I've always wanted to serve and am looking forward to the experience. Financially it's still a big win as well. That being said, I would obviously like to utilize Gi Bill in dental school if at all possible. And I know for a fact 2 folks at my school who have zero prior service are using their benefits. Guess I may have just gotten unlucky...
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2009
- Messages
- 215
- Reaction score
- 8
Similar confusion on my end. Especially since ALL other active duty privileges are afforded to HSCP... excluding GI Bill [apparently].
I'm not pretending that my service (attending school) is equal to those out there working their tails off every day...I'm just trying to figure out the rules here because they seem ambiguous.
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2008
- Messages
- 102
- Reaction score
- 5
Ok,
This is how it works
GI Bill is a program designed for former military who served time in active or reserves who got out and decided to go to school. Whether it is for bachelor or whether it is for dental school.
HSCP is getting paid like active duty but going to school hence you are paid a salary etc without the govt paying for your school. You can use the GI Bill in HSCP because you were prior military who got out and now is attending school. Ie; the person is entitled to use the GI Bill because they earned it previously.
Just because you were on active duty does not entitle you to anything. All that means is that you are accumulating time toward your GI Bill
For example, lets say you join the military after dental school no hpsp,hscp or anything straight up. He does lets say 9months. he wants to go to coooking school at night. He says ok i got GI bill lets use it!? Guess what they can't use the gi bill because they are in the military!
The GI Bill for the above person would be applicable once he gets out of military; receives his DD 214 and the VA uses the DD 214 to verify eligibility and percent.
So again; just because you did the summer AT in HPSP, or just because you got a rank in HPSP/HSCP doesn't mean you can use the GI Bill.
Again if you don't have a DD 214 then you don't qualify.
The person who says he knows 2 people getting GI Bill w/o prior service; really? 1 of 2 things happened. Someone at the VA screwed up royally, and/or they are committing fraud.
Either way, if they don't have a dd 214 then they can't use the GI BIll; its that simple and i am amazed at the continued arguments.
Please give me the names of the 2 people; i'll be happy to discuss this situation with the VA. I am 100% sure the VA would be happy to tell them they received the benefits that they are not entitled too.
Finally, if you can't produce a DD214, or don't know what that is; then again you are not eligible..
2nd Finally;
HSCP: I understand why you want the GI BIll; totally makes sense since it helps with tuition. But if you don't have a DD 214 saying you served this much time at time of getting out of the military then you can't get it.
HPSP: you are getting your school paid for; just to get the BAH, and 1000/year book stipend is it worth pissing away the rest of the tuition benefit? My god; you go to school for free; and you get free money to live off of......jeez get back to studying
unbelievable.....................
This is how it works
GI Bill is a program designed for former military who served time in active or reserves who got out and decided to go to school. Whether it is for bachelor or whether it is for dental school.
HSCP is getting paid like active duty but going to school hence you are paid a salary etc without the govt paying for your school. You can use the GI Bill in HSCP because you were prior military who got out and now is attending school. Ie; the person is entitled to use the GI Bill because they earned it previously.
Just because you were on active duty does not entitle you to anything. All that means is that you are accumulating time toward your GI Bill
For example, lets say you join the military after dental school no hpsp,hscp or anything straight up. He does lets say 9months. he wants to go to coooking school at night. He says ok i got GI bill lets use it!? Guess what they can't use the gi bill because they are in the military!
The GI Bill for the above person would be applicable once he gets out of military; receives his DD 214 and the VA uses the DD 214 to verify eligibility and percent.
So again; just because you did the summer AT in HPSP, or just because you got a rank in HPSP/HSCP doesn't mean you can use the GI Bill.
Again if you don't have a DD 214 then you don't qualify.
The person who says he knows 2 people getting GI Bill w/o prior service; really? 1 of 2 things happened. Someone at the VA screwed up royally, and/or they are committing fraud.
Either way, if they don't have a dd 214 then they can't use the GI BIll; its that simple and i am amazed at the continued arguments.
Please give me the names of the 2 people; i'll be happy to discuss this situation with the VA. I am 100% sure the VA would be happy to tell them they received the benefits that they are not entitled too.
Finally, if you can't produce a DD214, or don't know what that is; then again you are not eligible..
2nd Finally;
HSCP: I understand why you want the GI BIll; totally makes sense since it helps with tuition. But if you don't have a DD 214 saying you served this much time at time of getting out of the military then you can't get it.
HPSP: you are getting your school paid for; just to get the BAH, and 1000/year book stipend is it worth pissing away the rest of the tuition benefit? My god; you go to school for free; and you get free money to live off of......jeez get back to studying
unbelievable.....................
Last edited:
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2009
- Messages
- 215
- Reaction score
- 8
No need to get testy my friend, I'm just trying to do the research on this. I realized just by posting this that I may offend some current/prior service folks. Please let me clarify: I in no way think that my 'service' at the moment (collecting a check and making a promise) equals that of others out there. I have a tremendous amount of respect for those who have served and are serving (many of my family members included). And I'm extremely thankful for all the information I've gleaned from folks who are willing to patiently help others on these boards over the years, it's been an invaluable resource. So thanks everyone!
I am just trying to figure out the rules here. I am pursuing this through the official avenues at the moment, but was just hoping that others with more experience than myself would be able to chime in.
And to my knowledge no-one on here is talking about using HPSP and GI Bill (please see the title of the thread). You're correct, that'd be dumb.
Back to studying now...
I am just trying to figure out the rules here. I am pursuing this through the official avenues at the moment, but was just hoping that others with more experience than myself would be able to chime in.
And to my knowledge no-one on here is talking about using HPSP and GI Bill (please see the title of the thread). You're correct, that'd be dumb.
Back to studying now...
Last edited:
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2008
- Messages
- 102
- Reaction score
- 5
ChapelHillT
Yup I am getting testy; however I understand it is a forum to help each other so I'll get it back on track.
In terms of official channels you should go talk to the actual person who will stamp your GI Bill approval. Your military command can say anything they want but it is the VA Rep who signs off on the GI Bill.
This is how it works.
1) You fill out the paperwork online at http://www.gibill.va.gov/; click on apply for benefits and do the online paperwork.
2) You go to your schools VA representative. Every school has one. Call them/go see them. Tell them you are HPSP/HSCP student who wants to use the GI BIll, and that you applied online.
Ok, now you are done. Now the VA rep at your school will look over your paperwork, and they will verify your DD214, other paperwork etc. The VA Rep at your school will then contact the official VA rep in charge of GI BIll and other VA benefits and will continue yoru application and verify your information etc.
If everything goes well and it is ok then you will get your benefits. Every quarter/semester you need to call your va rep at your school and let them know you are in school since they reverify every qtr/sem. You are paid at the end of the month so if you start june you get benefits end of june etc.
If you apply may you should be able to get benefits by end of june etc.
For now the only people who doesn't qualify for payback time is ROTC and Academy graduates. HPSP/HSCP people are not under this so you are good.
I'm in the military going back to school and I am telling you this out of experience and also the mass confusion some of us had as well. We got so many conflicting information it got us pretty confused and upset. Not until the official VA Rep who is in charge of the VA matters did they give us the official non confusing line on the GI BIll.
Now back to your specific question; it was about the GI BIll and HSCP NOT HPSP.... =) I'm still testy
So whether you are HPSP/HSCP doesn't matter; just do the above and apply
Benefit comparision charts;
http://www.gibill.va.gov/resources/benefits_resources/benefit_comparison_chart.html
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2009
- Messages
- 215
- Reaction score
- 8
Thanks docdok,
I have nothing but respect for you and all those who have come before me and take the time to post on here, I mean that sincerely. Sorry about the 'testy' remark.
After further research, it's my understanding that those who are undergoing 'skills training' (such as those under HSPC) are not eligible for GI Bill Benefits until they have 24 months of active duty service. But that's only derived from some internet research and GI Bill Benefit Pamphlets. http://www.gibill.va.gov/documents/factsheets/post-911_general_info.pdf
Apparently those who I know at school, and those who have claimed to have received additional benefits on here have slipped through the cracks. Again, this is unconfirmed officially and is only based on my crude research. I'll be happy to report what my CO and the VA have to say in the future, so that further HSCP folks will have more info on this topic.
Either way, if you have any inkling to serve your country, the military route is a heck of a deal at the moment. I'd be happy to discuss this further if anyone has any questions--please feel free to PM me if so.
Time to go enjoy my 2 weeks of break before summer school starts!!!!!!!!
I have nothing but respect for you and all those who have come before me and take the time to post on here, I mean that sincerely. Sorry about the 'testy' remark.
After further research, it's my understanding that those who are undergoing 'skills training' (such as those under HSPC) are not eligible for GI Bill Benefits until they have 24 months of active duty service. But that's only derived from some internet research and GI Bill Benefit Pamphlets. http://www.gibill.va.gov/documents/factsheets/post-911_general_info.pdf
Apparently those who I know at school, and those who have claimed to have received additional benefits on here have slipped through the cracks. Again, this is unconfirmed officially and is only based on my crude research. I'll be happy to report what my CO and the VA have to say in the future, so that further HSCP folks will have more info on this topic.
Either way, if you have any inkling to serve your country, the military route is a heck of a deal at the moment. I'd be happy to discuss this further if anyone has any questions--please feel free to PM me if so.
Time to go enjoy my 2 weeks of break before summer school starts!!!!!!!!
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2008
- Messages
- 102
- Reaction score
- 5
ChapelHillT
Hey, no need to apologize. We are all here to share, help, and support each other.
I won't lie when I say I am upset by people using a benefit they are not entitled too. However, that is the screw up on the part of the VA so ain't nothing that can be done.
I just read the link. I can see where the confusion and abuse comes from.
What you say is correct. However, the 2nd most important criteria to be eligibile is the "vetern must have an honorable discharge or other qualifying discharge. This discharge is your DD214. Hence without DD214 you can't get the GI BIll.
The GI BIll is earned from serving on active/reserve duty and the person is discharged ie leaves the military. These are the people who qualify for the GI BIll.
The entry level skill/training is for training while on active duty. Boot camp, technical school etc.
The GI Bill was written with the high school educated person in mind who enlists as non-officer who will serve in military for X-number of years and goes on to college. Henced the wording that is written.
Yes, its confusing for dental students since technically one is at skill training/entry level. However, it specifiically states service on active duty in that training.
The difference is that the enlisted person is required to go to that school/training so they can work in the job they joined up for. They don't get a stipend, go back into reserves while in training etc. They are on active duty, wear uniform everyday, live in barracks, ship off to where they are told. That is their fulltime job; go to bootcamp, go to skill training, go to job. All within the confines of government schooling.
The logic behind the excluding part in the 40-70% range is simple. The govt spends a ton of money on someone when they train them at enlistment. Usually that person will be in school from 1-2 years before they start working. IF during that time something happens etc the govt wants their money back. They don't want to pay you a benefit when you didn't pay it back, except for qualifying discharge reasons. Anyone who was prior enlisted will tell you this; they don't just go to boot camp and be done with it....the more technical the job the more schooling they go to.....anyhow....
HSCP/HPSP this is not what you guys do and it is not what you are signed up to do. You say why? Guess what happens when you drop out of HPSP/HSCP and see what happens....Uncle Sam gets his money back one way or another; oh yeah and 'don't think you can tell uncle sam you changed your mind and you won the lottery and will pay them back. They will say most likely no thanks just come to military serve your time as non-dental officer. Of course there always are exceptions....
With that said you can go legal and make the argument. However, when you commission in HPSP/HSCP you are in the reserves with once a year active duty training.
In the end, if you don't have a DD214 you don't qualify. The way people may have slipped is this; when you apply you can start the benefits in lieu of your DD214. Ie you can get the paperwork started and get benefits until you send your dd214 in. However, down the line they need to verify that DD214. I don't know if this was done; if not then the VA person screwed up.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HPSP - Advice
In the end HPSP people if you somehow got the GI BIll great; hoewver, you guys are really shortsighted. You get Housing and book allowance at the most. That is a huge gain for govt and huge loss for you. PLEASE DON'T TELL ME YOU WANT TO GET A REFUND OF TUITION BY DOING THIS! THAT IS 100% FRAUD, AND YOU WON'T GET AWAY WITH IT!!!! If you got any sense you would live like a student within the confines of HPSP. I was a 4 year HPSP; i know what it is; and now it is a 20k bonus with 4 year HPSP, annd your stipend is what 1300 or more/month??? wow that is fantastics; i didn't get that much.
If you are smart; you will live frugally; graduate with no debt like the HPSP promises you. Save that GI BIll while you serve your time on active duty. 3-4 years down the line; things happen:: you pop a kid, you get the specialty bug; you decide dentistry sucks and you want to be MBA. You can use that GI BIll to 100% full effect without any limitations at that point! My friends decided to go ortho, os, endo etc after getting out of the Navy because they had the Post 9/11 GI BIll. They love it; on top of that they are in the active reserves and they get paid there as well! They had enough money from housing allowance, reserve pay so that even expensive schools they can graduate with very minimal to easy debt. If you go to public school in your state heck even better..............that is wise and maximum way to get the most bang for the buck.
HSCP ---
if you can get Gi bill good for you, i just hope you are that person who served prior and earned that GI BIll and are using it correctly. If thats not the case, well, honestly I don't think its right but that is none of my business.
Besides the only people who should be doing HSCP should be those in cheap in state dental schools, or prior military people. For obvious reasons.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not a cop or someone out to get them in trouble; i am just stating facts and experience.....don't be offended or scared i'm just sharing my experiences folks. I hope it helps..
*****PEOPLE DENTISTRY IN THE MILITARY IS FANTASTIC. YOu are treated well and expectations are you are dentist so get what you can i understand that but don't forget the big picture; you will be a dental officer in the military making a difference....
When you finish your term you will look back at things differently......you will see.....you have to experience it yourself to understand; trust me and countless others who went before you; it is a fantastic deal, just don't be a sulking, loser be open minded, stay physically fit and enjoy the ride.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2009
- Messages
- 215
- Reaction score
- 8
N
NAVY DDS 2010
Docdok, I don't know you, so I don't know your background. If you have been in the military for years, I can see where your thoughts are coming from when you speak about the GI Bill. Originially, the GI Bill could only be used if you served a minimum fo 3 years service and had completed your original years of obligation. But that criteria no longer applies to the Post-9/11 GI Bill. People in the HSCP program ARE ELIGIBLE for the Post-9/11 GI Bill benefits even if they have no prior service. HPSP recipients are not eligible as you stated. So, don't get upset at those individuals in the HSCP program who use the GI Bill benefits because they are doing nothing wrong. They aren't working the system. If you closed minded and feel the way individuals earned the Montgomery GI Bill was a more appropriate way to get the benefits, then be upset at the individuals who changed the requirements, not those receiving the benefits. They are entitled to them whether you agree or not.
Regarding your stance on the DD214, that is wrong. You do not need a DD214 to claim the benefits!
I have been in the Navy since 1998. I have yet to use my benefits and chose to accept the Post-9/11 benefits and am transferrring these benefits to a child of mine since we will be able to maximize the benefits that HSCP recipients cannot maximize (regarding BAH). That said, if you want to continue to deny that individuals in the HSCP program cannot properly receive the HSCP benefits, please look further into this. I know of 6 individuals who have no prior service who have utilized the post-9/11 GI Bill benefits with approval of the VA.
Another note - The GI Bill was NOT just intended to assist non-officers in getting a degree. The original thought behind the GI Bill (by FDR) was to right the wrong that our country had done towards our veterans returning from war. They never really received compensation for the job they did. So, FDR envisioned the GI Bill (although the benefits weren't as good as they eventually evolved to be.) From the educational standpoint, it was intended to assist all veterans (not just enlisted)who were seeking higher education and were having difficulty covering the costs of the education since they didn't have the financing programs we have today. There were officers who used the GI Bill to get doctorate level degrees as well. If your way of thinking was the case, no officer would have ever been offered GI bill benefits!
I do not mean to come across testy. I just noticed how abrupt you have responded to others posts and need to inform you that regarding the information I mentioned above, you are wrong. On that note, relax. Don't get your panties in a bind. Make sure your facts are correct before you get so adamantwhen you post. Have a fine Navy Day!
Regarding your stance on the DD214, that is wrong. You do not need a DD214 to claim the benefits!
I have been in the Navy since 1998. I have yet to use my benefits and chose to accept the Post-9/11 benefits and am transferrring these benefits to a child of mine since we will be able to maximize the benefits that HSCP recipients cannot maximize (regarding BAH). That said, if you want to continue to deny that individuals in the HSCP program cannot properly receive the HSCP benefits, please look further into this. I know of 6 individuals who have no prior service who have utilized the post-9/11 GI Bill benefits with approval of the VA.
Another note - The GI Bill was NOT just intended to assist non-officers in getting a degree. The original thought behind the GI Bill (by FDR) was to right the wrong that our country had done towards our veterans returning from war. They never really received compensation for the job they did. So, FDR envisioned the GI Bill (although the benefits weren't as good as they eventually evolved to be.) From the educational standpoint, it was intended to assist all veterans (not just enlisted)who were seeking higher education and were having difficulty covering the costs of the education since they didn't have the financing programs we have today. There were officers who used the GI Bill to get doctorate level degrees as well. If your way of thinking was the case, no officer would have ever been offered GI bill benefits!
I do not mean to come across testy. I just noticed how abrupt you have responded to others posts and need to inform you that regarding the information I mentioned above, you are wrong. On that note, relax. Don't get your panties in a bind. Make sure your facts are correct before you get so adamantwhen you post. Have a fine Navy Day!
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2008
- Messages
- 1,095
- Reaction score
- 20
Good info on this thread, but much of it doesn't match with what the VA publishes. According to their info site, https://gibill.custhelp.com/app/ans...sion/L3RpbWUvMTM2NjkxNDIxMi9zaWQvU3IxR1JDb2w= you would need to serve at least 36 months before you were eligible for full benefits. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not disputing what anyone is saying on who is and who isn't receiving the money, but It wouldn't suprise me to hear that those that received it may have gotten in under a glitch and now that the system has been running longer, the glitch is no longer available.
If the rules allow you to get the money, then you should get it. But having seen how things work with other programs, I can definitely see the VA saying the HSCP is a pre-commissioning program and those in it are not eligible.
If the rules allow you to get the money, then you should get it. But having seen how things work with other programs, I can definitely see the VA saying the HSCP is a pre-commissioning program and those in it are not eligible.
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2008
- Messages
- 102
- Reaction score
- 5
NavyDDS2010
I read your post and read my previous one again....before that i was upset by what you said but after rereading my post i realized you are absolutely correct.
Thanks for loosening my sphincter; one of the plugs from the butter cup exercise days must have been lodged too deeply.. =)
As for saying i need to check my facts; yes and no
What i have said before is correct; based on what is posted on the va website, but most importantly what i have been told by the VA person who deals with educational benefit matters; post 911 or what not.
I have passed on what i have been told. Now the fact that you know all these people who are getting the gi bill and never being prior service. Obviously, I can't speak to that since i am not the VA expert. Nor am i an expert on HSCP matters. Also, I never said you can't use gi bill with hscp. All i said is that you don't qualify for gi bill if you don't have a dd214; if you got a dd 214 from prior service then yes you can use it with hscp. Of course i shouldn't have stated it as if that was the end all as i am learning.
Since you state that HSCP people can get post 911 gi bill without a dd214 or any prior service that is fantastic. I must assume HSCP people have an exception clause or something?
In regards to post 911 gi bill not needing dd214 or prior service to qualify. Ok, you are the expert so i was wrong. However, again I only passed on what was told by the VA person on GI Bill. DD214 to use the benefits, apply etc. It's amazing how HSCP people who didn't serve a day can get the post911 yet ROTC/Academy people aren't eligibile during the payback years. IE; they graduated served their contract but the time served during payback doesn't count toward post 911 gi bill eligibility.
Even active duty people can't use the Post 911 gi bill until they leave the service., or has this changed? heck i'm probably wrong on this one.
In regards to GI BIll history. Yes you are correct; montgomery gi bill was created with the intent you stated. However, the Post 9/11 Gi Bill is different in that it was created to address/modify the weakness, out of date, etc of the previous gi bill to make it more applicable to the veterans in our modern age.
Also, you are correct in that the gi bill was intended for both officers and non-officers. When I wrote that comment it wasn't to say only enlisted people could get gi bill etc. My point i was trying to make is that the main target audience of the GI Bill are enlisted. The idea behind the GI Bill was to get veterans after serving a means to attend school be it bachelor, graduate, professional. However, the bulk of the military is made up of enlisted who came into the military directly from high school. Yes i understand their are enlisted with degrees, officers who go on to school etc. All military personnel get the GI Bill; its just that the enlisted ranks are larger in number, and the bulk of gi bill is used by those who want to get the first bachelor degree....that is all i was saying.......again target audience aren't military so my point could easily be misunderstood....
phew...........knowing what you have just told me; looks like the VA person is wrong???...ugh...what the hell.
Finally, When I was receiving all of this information from the VA rep I was not alone. I was with Dental, Nursing, SWO, Pilots, etc.....ALL OF US had questions on this dang GI Bill because everyone had different ideas about it. It took us 2 misinformation sessions before the actual person who actually handles the GI Bill straightened us out with the facts and figures. Again, HSCP don't know since no one asked that question. But HPSP, Loan Repayment people; ie healthcare; trust me we asked and we asked again.....
NavyDDS2010. thanks bud for correcting me; i was rude even though that was not my intention.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2006
- Messages
- 434
- Reaction score
- 20
NavyDDS2010 is correct. You can use the GI Bill while on active duty. You do not need a DD-214 unless you have already left the military. HSCP students have been able to use the GI Bill in the past because they are technically on active duty. But seeing as though it is a essentially a pre-commissioning program where you are a just a student on active duty for pay-grade purposes only, the VA is probably getting wise to the HSCP loophole. It's hard to justify being active duty when you don't have even have a rank or a uniform. HSCP students should earn their GI Bills actually serving on active duty to repay their commitment, just like the HPSP students do.
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2008
- Messages
- 102
- Reaction score
- 5
del Sol
Thanks for chiming in on this. Man, that is one big loophole!
Ok, I decided to take the initiative and find a document or something in writing to confirm this;
http://newgibill.org/get_answers#40
Here it is! You guys were right on this one. It confirms a sad fact; I got misinformation again =(
Luckily it doesn't affect people who graduated, but this should help all the future dental students.
Sorry guys; thanks to others who clarified the HSCP.
Of course as del Sol stated once the VA gets wise to this i wouldn't be surprised if new rules are made.
Since this is true I will look at the HSCP program in a new light...
This is a learning experience; i'll pass it on to our corpsmen who are studying to become health care professionals down the line.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I. Am I eligible for the new benefit?
b) Active Duty
Service members using their Post-9/11 GI Bill (Chapter 33) benefits while on active duty will have their tuition/fees paid for and receive an annual book stipend, but they do not qualify for the monthly housing allowance.
Active duty servicemembers with less than 3 years of Post-9/11 service will receive lower benefits depending on what tier of benefits they qualify for. For example if an active duty servicemember has served 2 years of active duty then they will qualify for 80% of the Post-9/11 GI Bill benefits.
To see how this works at your school, please check out our GI Bill benefits calculator.
I'm speaking from first hand experience here. I think this is important to anyone in the class of 2017 who may be applying for HSCP with no prior military experience. It appears that, up until last year, HSCP school based active duty WAS counting as eligible active duty service for time accrued towards post 9/11 G.I. Bill benefits. But - I (with no prior service) have already received two denials for those benefits this year. I'm in the class of 2016, and I know of at least three other people in my exact situation who are now receiving denial of claims letters from the VA to use the post 9/11 GI Bill in this way. So, if you are considering to apply for HPSP or HSCP and you have no prior military experience, assume you will not be able to us post 9/11 GI Bill during school. I would suggest you ignore any old information about people using the benefits during school - it appears that the VA no longer allows this!
This is the closest thing I can find to a clause that excludes HSCP school based active duty service from eligible active duty time:
http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/career/education/gibill/Pages/default.aspx
(Then, click Title 38, Chapter 33 (Law for Post 9/11 GI Bill) on the right hand side)
(d) Prohibition on Treatment of Certain Service as Period of
Active Duty. - The following periods of service shall not be
considered a part of the period of active duty on which an
individual's entitlement to educational assistance under this
chapter is based:
(1) A period of service on active duty of an officer pursuant
to an agreement under section 2107(b) of title 10.
I looked through HSCP paperwork, and at least one document (NAVCRUIT 1131/130) refers to 2107(b) of title 10 as a reference document for the basis for the program. Now, my only question is - does this really apply to HSCP as we are technically enlisted at E6 (Or is this clause directed at HPSP program)? Anyone with more experience in the Navy might be able to chime in and tell me if a Petty Officer fits this description.
I am curious if people in the class of 2015, 14 or 13, who have already received some benefits will continue to recieve them for the rest of their time in school under HSCP (grandfathered in...)
This is the closest thing I can find to a clause that excludes HSCP school based active duty service from eligible active duty time:
http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/career/education/gibill/Pages/default.aspx
(Then, click Title 38, Chapter 33 (Law for Post 9/11 GI Bill) on the right hand side)
(d) Prohibition on Treatment of Certain Service as Period of
Active Duty. - The following periods of service shall not be
considered a part of the period of active duty on which an
individual's entitlement to educational assistance under this
chapter is based:
(1) A period of service on active duty of an officer pursuant
to an agreement under section 2107(b) of title 10.
I looked through HSCP paperwork, and at least one document (NAVCRUIT 1131/130) refers to 2107(b) of title 10 as a reference document for the basis for the program. Now, my only question is - does this really apply to HSCP as we are technically enlisted at E6 (Or is this clause directed at HPSP program)? Anyone with more experience in the Navy might be able to chime in and tell me if a Petty Officer fits this description.
I am curious if people in the class of 2015, 14 or 13, who have already received some benefits will continue to recieve them for the rest of their time in school under HSCP (grandfathered in...)
Last edited:
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2008
- Messages
- 102
- Reaction score
- 5
Ugh!
so my VA person was correct after all.
oh well, i am not surprised by this; the Post 911 had changes made last year....ie max private tuition cap down to 18k i think, no bah during breaks, etc.
Looks like they tightened up the loopholes....
dentclc, thanks for chiming in.....i was about to call the VA person who handles the GI Bill and tell her the info she gave out was incorrect....that would have been embarrassing
In the end the best person to talk to is the person who actually handles the GI Bill.
Navydds2010 was correct, i was correct, dentclc is correct...basically everyone is correct here and there.....
Man, no wonder there is so much confusion and misinformation!
dentclc; in regards to HSCP being enlisted at E6; did you know HPSP are commissioned as officers when they take on the HPSP? They say officer, and maybe it is a legal technicality, but then again maybe you get lucky and find another loophole?? I highly doubt it......but as stated by other posters people have slipped by...
I think the term "active duty" doesn't really apply for HSCP/HPSP; but that is my opinion; it is a weird thing; i remember getting commissioned yet i never put on a uniform during dental school except for ODS, 45day at etc..
Anyhow,
In regards to people continuing to get benefits; ie grandfathered in? couldn't say on that one. Again i think it is best to talk to the actual person at the VA who approves/denies the GI BIll.....
However i do know that you have to confirm your enrollment every semester.
Good stuff..
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2009
- Messages
- 215
- Reaction score
- 8
I chased this answer myself over the past few years and finally ended up working with CAPT George on it. Attached was what he found.
In short, no you cannot use it with no prior service. Yes people in the past have. Yes there may be current HSCPers using it but if the VA were to catch them they would attempt to recoup the money.
